Dear BV. With all my love and appreciation of your work, i deeply consider that Charlie's related threads should remain as sticky during a long time.
With love. Thank you for yout work and effort

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MisterDDDD

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IanBillen

They meaning the Stones themselves (and media outlets). Charlie did not die from natural causes ... He was gravely ill for a while..

Yes, we are all aware that it wasn't natural causes. Was relaying the media statements.
Which, I echo the sentiments of good on 'em for honoring his privacy.
As well as the band for honoring it as well.

A death other than from natural causes would be homicide, suicide or accident - what are you implying?

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xke38

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MisterDDDD

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IanBillen

They meaning the Stones themselves (and media outlets). Charlie did not die from natural causes ... He was gravely ill for a while..

Yes, we are all aware that it wasn't natural causes. Was relaying the media statements.
Which, I echo the sentiments of good on 'em for honoring his privacy.
As well as the band for honoring it as well.

A death other than from natural causes would be homicide, suicide or accident - what are you implying?

Well, initially I was quoting an article if you're addressing me.
Must admit, I didn't know the definition criteria however.


Anyway, this had been a very respectful thread to date, but like most threads here eventually...

Thanks all for the contributions, it has been very helpful in dealing with this, and so great to see all the universal respect Charlie garnered.

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JumpingKentFlash
I’m still so sad about CW’s passing. It hurts and continues to do so.

Yeah sad...and strange that this thread (and the other Charlie threads) are no longer stickys..would have been nice to have seen them up at the top throughout the tour - at least for the first few shows.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

The loss of dear Charlie is a very private, family matter when it comes to the details.
Nothing to do with anyone else.

Shirley and her family and friends deserve privacy at this very sad time.

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crawdaddy
The loss of dear Charlie is a very private, family matter when it comes to the details.
Nothing to do with anyone else.

Shirley and her family and friends deserve privacy at this very sad time.

Amen.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Lady Jayne

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IanBillen
Over two weeks since he has passed and we still don't know what the cause was (no info on that at all?). In modern times I've never heard of a rock star passing (especially suddenly) and two weeks pass and there is no information / reason given as to what occurred.

Not saying it's a conspiracy .. but they are hiding the facts, obviously (and the world press is obliging that).


Anyone?


Ian

I am hugely impressed that Charlie has been accorded the dignity of absolute media privacy he would surely have wanted concerning the details of his last illness and death and a private funeral. All the publicity has centred on celebrating his extraordinary life and qualities as a man and a musician. That's what matters.

100% agree with Lady Jayne. Whilst WE are all shocked and might WANT to know the facts of Charlie’s passing, it’s not our right to know. Should the family want to keep it private, so be it. Totally understood and respected by me.

Unfortunately, the way the world operates now, with instant “news” and opinion, so many people think it’s THEIR right to know everything. And I’m NOT pointing the finger at anyone here. That IS just our world now.

It is still so very hard to imagine him gone still…I really can’t fathom it.

Rod



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-09-10 09:45 by bitusa2012.

Yes, I've been in a kind of funk that I can't shake. Very strange to be without him.

First and foremost: when someone dies, It's always a private matter.

But. When the deceased was a celebrity, who not only had millions of fans, but also earned hundreds of millions of dollars (thanks to these fans) and therefore had a luxurious and carefree life for almost 60 years, then I think the family has a certain responsibility towards those fans.. At least more than they show right now. It's been over two weeks since Charlies passing and we didn't hear a single word.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe they have any obligations to us. I don't even want to know what his last words were and what he last ate. but a message that he appreciated his fans and that he is now privately buried. That's not too much to ask is it?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-09-10 14:14 by ribbelchips.

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MisterDDDD

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xke38

Quote
MisterDDDD

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IanBillen

They meaning the Stones themselves (and media outlets). Charlie did not die from natural causes ... He was gravely ill for a while..

Yes, we are all aware that it wasn't natural causes. Was relaying the media statements.
Which, I echo the sentiments of good on 'em for honoring his privacy.
As well as the band for honoring it as well.

A death other than from natural causes would be homicide, suicide or accident - what are you implying?

Well, initially I was quoting an article if you're addressing me.
Must admit, I didn't know the definition criteria however.


Anyway, this had been a very respectful thread to date, but like most threads here eventually...

Thanks all for the contributions, it has been very helpful in dealing with this, and so great to see all the universal respect Charlie garnered.

Thanks for the clarification - fully agree with you on this thread.

‘The calm in the storm’: Bernard Fowler, Tim Ries talk about losing their friend, Charlie Watts

By: CINDY STAGOFF
September 10, 2021

“He was such a unique, beautiful person,” said Tim Ries about legendary Rolling Stones drummer Charlie Watts, who died on Aug. 24. “I sure loved him. I miss him terribly.”

Often described as one of the greatest rock drummers of his generation, Watts not only kept time for the band, but was the heart and soul of the group, according to Ries and Bernard Fowler, whom I spoke with last week. Ries has played saxophone and keyboards with the Stones since 1999, while Fowler has sung and played percussion for them since 1989.

“As long as there are people on Earth, there’s going to be people listening to Charlie Watts play,” said Ries. “Some 16-year-old kid, 50 years from now, is going to be introduced to the Stones and hear Charlie Watts and he’s going to be living on.”

Also, said Ries, “He was a very distinguished gentleman, very well dressed — not just a classy person, a beautiful human being. The Earth is a better place knowing that he walked on these grounds.

“As a musician, he’s a great jazz drummer that played with the greatest rock ‘n’ roll band. His way of playing the instrument and his kind of swing element of playing the drums created the sound of the Stones … obviously with Mick and Keith, too, and their iconic songs. Keith was quoted as saying in ’79 that ‘Charlie Watts is the Stones.’ ”

Fowler called Watts “the calm in the storm, aside from being in charge of the engine that drove the band. He was always there and always solid. Keith and I used to call him Charlie 2000” (a reference to a drum machine).

Ries called Watts “one of the kindest, most gentle people I had ever met. He always had time for everybody. He would take time to spend time with a guest of mine. He would let them come backstage and take a picture. He was just very open and a very giving person to everybody. He was like a cool uncle that you wish you had.”

Last week, Fowler and Ries joined the band’s rehearsals in New England to prepare for a 12-date tour that kicks off on Sept. 26 in St. Louis. While they have packed their bags before many times in preparation for touring, this time is different. When they practice with Mick Jagger, Keith Richards and Ron Wood, Steve Jordan — who has played in Richards’ side project the X-Pensive Winos, among many other groups — will be sitting behind the drums. (Several weeks before Watts’ death, the Stones announced that Jordan would be playing drums on the tour, since Watts was too ill to make it.)

Fowler takes some solace in the fact that Jordan was selected by Watts to join the band on this tour.

“It’s bittersweet,” he said. “We miss him so much, but the thing that is really important, that means something to me, is that (Jordan) is sitting in that chair because of Charlie Watts. … Charlie chose that and called Steve and gave him his blessing.

“I almost feel like we are here because of Charlie. He would want them (the Stones) to forge on. He was such a considerate cat. I’m sure he thought about the amount of people that would be affected if he let them down.”

“Steve is one of the greatest drummers, one of my favorite players,” said Ries. “It’s gonna be different. But he will sound amazing.”

I spoke with Ries on the day before he left for rehearsal from his home in New Jersey, and with Fowler during a break on his first day of rehearsals, about their close connection to Watts.

Both forged a friendship with Watts (and each other) that extended offstage. They collaborated with Watts on outside music projects, explored jazz clubs together and talked about music over dinner.

Fowler said he has had periods of sadness, “but being here with the cats is healing. We are all in the same place. It’s a shock. I’m sure they (Jagger, Richards and Wood) knew more than I did. I thought that he was on the mend after his surgery. I was hopeful that he was, at the very least, going to join us next year.”

Both Fowler and Ries spoke about Watts’ jazz-influenced drumming style, his elegant and graceful manner, and his swing. He cultivated his passion for jazz from a very young age, which shaped the sound of the Stones, they said.

But they also spoke about his warmth and kindness.

“He was not ‘a’ gentleman — he was ‘the’ gentleman,” said Fowler. “When I first entered the Rolling Stone world 33 years ago, there was a storm and, in that storm, there was always calm. And that came from him. … Charlie was the reason why I’m able to venture into the jazz world. I sang on three of his jazz recordings. Charlie was a jazz aficionado; he wasn’t just a fan of the music. You name the artist and he could tell you who played on his record and where that record was recorded. That was who he was.

“But that’s not all he was. Charlie had his ear to the ground. He tried to stay current even though he wasn’t a fan of the new popular genres. I remember about two tours ago, we were in rehearsal and we were talking about hip-hop. Charlie said to me, ‘Bernard, Dr. Dre — “Keep Their Heads Ringin.” ‘ I said ‘Yeah man, I’m grooving on that track, Charlie.’ He said, ‘It’s not my favorite genre of music but, Bernard, I quite like that song.’ Charlie dug that track. He was aware.”

Watts also liked the rapper Ludacris, Fowler said.

Ries said that some band members were already rehearsing before he left to join them. “Mick and Keith and Ronnie are there with Steve Jordan on drums and (keyboardist) Chuck Leavell and (bassist) Darryl Jones,” he said, last week. “They’ve already been rehearsing for a couple of weeks now. So, for us (Ries and Fowler), arriving next week, it’s going to be a shock and weird walking in the room and seeing the drums.

There’s been waves of sadness and crying and missing him. The first rehearsal is going to be difficult. And then the first gig onstage in front of people, that’s going to be another a hard night. There’s going to be waves of difficulty over the course of many years.

“We knew he wasn’t going to be on this tour because he was not well, but the hope was that he would get better and then next year — the 60th anniversary of the band — I assumed that they’d be thinking about touring, and then he’d be healthy enough for that tour.”

Watts started his career playing in a jazz band, and continued playing in jazz groups he led himself, while in the Stones.

“Charlie created a new way of playing rock music on drums,” said Ries. “His touch on the drums, swing feel … it’s very unique. You have Keith Richards coming more from blues and early rock influences, combine that with Charlie’s influence with jazz … that’s what created the Stones. So in a sense, the Stones did create a whole new genre. And Mick is one of the greatest entertainers of all time. In the last 50 or 60 years, there’s a handful of people — and Mick is one of them, like Frank Sinatra, Michael Jackson, James Brown — who when they get onstage, you’re galvanized by their presence.”

Watts, said Ries, “would never think of himself as such a great drummer. He didn’t like taking drum solos. He was modest and humble.”

Among the jazz drummers who influenced Watts the most were Max Roach and Roy Haynes. “This is what he saw live, growing up in London and then moving to New York,” said Ries. “The level of musicianship has been set by the masters of the instrument, so once that has happened, you are humbled by the music and you try to attain the highest level that you can.

“He played an old Gretsch set of drums, which is like what a lot of old jazz drummers in the ’40s, ’50s and ’60s played. It was a very small jazz drum kit … the way he touched the drums … the way he hit the drums, it was not like a typical rock drummer who would bash the drums really loudly.

“When you look at somebody that is a jazz drummer, the way they hold their hands and wrist, the way they touch the cymbals and drums, it’s different. He had what’s called a traditional grip. The traditional grip is where the stick is in your left hand upside down, facing you … Like the old marching band field drumming … The way he held the drum stick is very jazz-like and the manner in which way he played was, too. There’s a 12/8 underlying swing beat even within the kind of rock ‘n’ roll music that he played.

“I got to hang out with him a lot offstage whenever the Stones would be in a different city — Chicago, Detroit or Los Angeles, New York. If he had an off night, we would go to jazz clubs or theater, or if there was a group, he’d always want to go. He’d call me and say, ‘This group is playing. Do you want to go?’ We’d go and have dinner and we’d go hear the music.”

Ries spoke fondly of Watts’ involvement with his albums The Rolling Stones Project (2005) and Stones World: The Rolling Stones Project II (2008), which featured Stones songs arranged for jazz ensembles.

“We recorded the first time in L.A. with Charlie, Keith and Ronnie in that first recording session. Sheryl Crow and Darryl Jones played on it and Larry Goldings, a great organist. We were in Germany, then Bill Frisell came by and we recorded in Munich. Then we recorded in Portugal — and this was all with Charlie. Another one in L.A. with West African singers and Charlie.

“He was like a little kid on the drums during these sessions. We recorded in Paris in July … the studio had no air conditioning and must have been 100 degrees. Charlie was wearing a T-shirt and was amazing.”

One of Ries’ favorite tracks from the album is one of the two versions recorded of “Honky Tonk Women.”

During the first session in Los Angeles, Watts, Wood and Richards recorded “Honky Tonk Women” as they do with the Stones. “We recorded their version with me playing saxophone instead of Mick singing and then we did one of Keith’s great tunes, ‘Slipping Away.’ Then Keith and Ronnie left. Sheryl Crow and Darryl Jones left.”

Ries remained in the studio with Watts and Goldings. Ries said that he told Watts, “Charlie, I’d love to do ‘Honky Tonk Women’ like an organ trio, like in a little club in Newark in the 1960s.” Watts agreed to play drums as part of the trio, with Goldings on organ and Ries on saxophone. “We did one version and that was it. I think it was the most unique … just playing jazz straightaway.”

Fowler and Ries have performed these unique arrangements with notable ensembles while touring at gigs on off nights in jazz clubs for years. Watts would attend to watch and would usually join in.

I saw Ries and Fowler perform at the Jazz Standard in New York in 2019 when Watts stayed on the sidelines. The evening was a magical fusion of rock, jazz and spoken word by Fowler, Ries, drummer Terreon Gully and trumpeter Wallace Roney. I caught a glimpse of Watts and Fowler talking before the show started and have a strong memory of Watts’ focus on and warmth towards Fowler.

Fowler told me what happened when he received the news of Watts’ death: “I got the call early in the morning. When I got the call, I don’t think people knew about it. So I had to keep it to myself until they all knew. It was definitely a shock to the system. People sent a lot of love. I was in a really blue place.”

Singer-songwriter La Forrest “La La” Cope, best known for writing the Whitney Houston hit “You Give Good Love,” sent him a comforting passage from Henry Scott Holland’s 1910 sermon “Death Is Nothing at All.”

Fowler said, “A good friend of mine (Cope) sent me a clip, I read it one, then two or three times. And I can’t wait to hug her because the thing that she sent me took me out of where I was. I saw some rays of sun after the third time I read it. It really helped me.”

Fowler sent me the sermon that helped him move forward. It reads, in part, “Death is nothing at all. It does not count. I have only slipped away into the next room. Nothing has happened. Everything remains exactly as it was. I am I, and you are you, and the old life that we lived so fondly together is untouched, unchanged. Whatever we were to each other, that we are still.”

Fowler released his third solo album, Inside Out, in 2019 on the Jersey City-based Rhyme & Reason Records label. It’s a stirring and evocative collection of Stones material — featuring nine of the band’s songs as spoken word with Jordan on drums, Jones on bass, Mike Garson on piano and others — that reveals Fowler’s soul and depth and provides another portal to appreciate the range of the Stones’ lyrics.

“Charlie liked that record and his comment to me was, ‘Bernard, that was quite brave of you,’ and that was a heavy compliment,” said Fowler. “He understood exactly what I did. I guess he appreciated the balls I had to actually go do that.”

Fowler said he got into some trouble once, while touring. He declined to share the details, saving them for his own book. But Watts’ reaction shook him up.

“When he found out about it, he expressed his distaste,” said Fowler. “And the look that he gave me, nothing else fazed me about what I did. The only thing that fazed me was the look that I got from Charlie. He was somebody that I would never want to let down. I’d never want him disappointed in me. He was not pleased and he gave me the look and he let me know.

“On the other hand, Keith looked at me and he winked.”

Watts and Fowler also connected through their interest in Arabian horses.

“We looked at Arabian horses together all the time,” Fowler said.

Their outings started when Fowler had a conversation with Watts’ wife “when I first started working for the Stones — maybe a year before the release of Steel Wheels,” he said. “When we toured all over the world, we looked at Arab studs. Charlie would call me and say, ‘Bernard, there’s an Arab stud horse farm to look at, would you like to come?’ That’s what we did together. Or we’d have dinner or see a local jazz show.

“He was very supportive of my endeavors outside the band. He listened and he paid attention to what I was doing and (what) people were doing outside the Stones.”

Before Ries left for rehearsal, he had a lot of communication with band members.

“It’s been difficult,” he said. “I spoke with Bernard a lot, Darryl, Chuck Leavell, Ronnie Wood. We’ve been texting. I sent messages to Keith and Mick with my condolences.

“I have my own connection to Charlie which is very special, but I can’t imagine what it’s like for Keith and Mick, going back more than 60 years. That’s like brothers. And Charlie was like the glue, a diplomat. I’ve never seen him upset.

“I’m not a Rolling Stone; I’m a musician who plays with them. They have a 60-year history that goes back so deeply. I’m feeling the pain and the shock of this, but for them, I can’t imagine.

“They’re almost 80 years old and this hit me the other day: It’s not exactly the same, but there was a period when the New York Yankees used to be Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle, but that didn’t end when they were gone. They had many great years as a team after that. The Rolling Stones is not a baseball team, but the reality is that musicians don’t retire. We play until we die because what are we going to do? This is our love. And Charlie was passionate about playing, and Mick loves performing. Mick is not onstage dialing it in.”

And so they continue, launching their fall tour, despite the pandemic and their loss.

[www.njarts.net]

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gotdablouse

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IanBillen

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MisterDDDD

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IanBillen
Over two weeks since he has passed and we still don't know what the cause was what-so0ever. In modern times I've never heard of a rock star passing (especially suddenly) and two weeks pass and there is no information / reason given as to what occurred.

Not saying it's a conspiracy .. but they are hiding the facts, obviously (and the world press is obliging that).


Anyone?


Ian

_______________________________________




Charlie was a very private man in life and it makes sense that people, media included, respect his privacy in death as well.
"Natural causes" has been reported in a couple outlets, which is not unusual given his age. I'm sure "complications due to___" will be disclosed by friends/family in due time.

Not sure who the "they" you are referring in regards to "hiding facts", but I would characterize it more as not disclosing info, which is their (family/friends) prerogative.
If he was younger, the media would be more pressing, but there is no need for that.

___________________________________________________



They meaning the Stones themselves (and media outlets). Charlie did not die from natural causes ... He was gravely ill for a while. Kenny Jones disclosed that in an interview.

In fact Kenny Jones expected Charlie to pass a good month before and was suprised he had made it to that point. Those are basically his words. It wasn't like Charlie simply died in his sleep at home. He had a bad situation going on.

I disagreed at first with this notion here but it is my belief The Stones knew
from the outset of the tour reschedule he was not going to make it .. meaning not only the tour but in living


Ian

What on earth are you going on about again ?! Kenney ("ey" BTW) Jones NEVER said anything remotely close to that. He said two things, that he was working with Ronnie a month before the sad news so he new the situation was not good for Charlie and that he had called Ronnie after he heard the news.

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No ... Kenny said he expected it the month before when he was working with Ron Wood and Ron Wood was informing him of the situation.

Here it states Kenny Jones knew Charlie was ...'gravely ill'.. and that Charlie was admitted to the hospital just days after Chalies conversation with Jones on the telephone in early June:

By the time Jones and Woody were recording fon The Faces new stuff in July he knew Charlie was gravely ill at that point and it was expected. That was in July .. Charlie passed in late August.

[www.express.co.uk]


Here it states that He and Ronnie Wood both 'KNEW' it was going to happen amd was expected (they easily knew in July he wasn't going to make it):

[www.aceshowbiz.com]


Here in this article he elaborates:

[todayuknews.com]

He said: “I kind of half expected it as a month before he died I had been recording with Ronnie Wood and Rod Stewart to celebrate the 50th anniversary of Faces, which is now two years late. I spent a lot of time with Ronnie so I knew about Charlie and how he was doing. I knew it wasn’t good… so I wasn’t surprised."


In fact my theory and everything points to Charlie had been in the hospital since right around early June (as the article states) and never came home ... and they <all> knew he probably was not going to make it.



Ok... there's all the evidence supporting what I said ... Satisfied Yet? What do you got?


Ian



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-09-10 15:36 by IanBillen.

Mr. Billen, you've posted nothing recently other than your interest in the cause of Charlie's death.

Please quit while you're behind.

“I almost feel like we are here because of Charlie. He would want them (the Stones) to forge on. He was such a considerate cat. I’m sure he thought about the amount of people that would be affected if he let them down.”

Thanks for this..

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bye bye johnny
‘The calm in the storm’: Bernard Fowler, Tim Ries talk about losing their friend, Charlie Watts

By: CINDY STAGOFF
September 10, 2021

“He was such a unique, beautiful person,” said Tim Ries about legendary Rolling Stones drummer Charlie Watts, who died on Aug. 24. “I sure loved him. I miss him terribly.”

Often described as one of the greatest rock drummers of his generation, Watts not only kept time for the band, but was the heart and soul of the group, according to Ries and Bernard Fowler, whom I spoke with last week. Ries has played saxophone and keyboards with the Stones since 1999, while Fowler has sung and played percussion for them since 1989.

“As long as there are people on Earth, there’s going to be people listening to Charlie Watts play,” said Ries. “Some 16-year-old kid, 50 years from now, is going to be introduced to the Stones and hear Charlie Watts and he’s going to be living on.”

Also, said Ries, “He was a very distinguished gentleman, very well dressed — not just a classy person, a beautiful human being. The Earth is a better place knowing that he walked on these grounds.

“As a musician, he’s a great jazz drummer that played with the greatest rock ‘n’ roll band. His way of playing the instrument and his kind of swing element of playing the drums created the sound of the Stones … obviously with Mick and Keith, too, and their iconic songs. Keith was quoted as saying in ’79 that ‘Charlie Watts is the Stones.’ ”

Fowler called Watts “the calm in the storm, aside from being in charge of the engine that drove the band. He was always there and always solid. Keith and I used to call him Charlie 2000” (a reference to a drum machine).

Ries called Watts “one of the kindest, most gentle people I had ever met. He always had time for everybody. He would take time to spend time with a guest of mine. He would let them come backstage and take a picture. He was just very open and a very giving person to everybody. He was like a cool uncle that you wish you had.”

Last week, Fowler and Ries joined the band’s rehearsals in New England to prepare for a 12-date tour that kicks off on Sept. 26 in St. Louis. While they have packed their bags before many times in preparation for touring, this time is different. When they practice with Mick Jagger, Keith Richards and Ron Wood, Steve Jordan — who has played in Richards’ side project the X-Pensive Winos, among many other groups — will be sitting behind the drums. (Several weeks before Watts’ death, the Stones announced that Jordan would be playing drums on the tour, since Watts was too ill to make it.)

Fowler takes some solace in the fact that Jordan was selected by Watts to join the band on this tour.

“It’s bittersweet,” he said. “We miss him so much, but the thing that is really important, that means something to me, is that (Jordan) is sitting in that chair because of Charlie Watts. … Charlie chose that and called Steve and gave him his blessing.

“I almost feel like we are here because of Charlie. He would want them (the Stones) to forge on. He was such a considerate cat. I’m sure he thought about the amount of people that would be affected if he let them down.”

“Steve is one of the greatest drummers, one of my favorite players,” said Ries. “It’s gonna be different. But he will sound amazing.”

I spoke with Ries on the day before he left for rehearsal from his home in New Jersey, and with Fowler during a break on his first day of rehearsals, about their close connection to Watts.

Both forged a friendship with Watts (and each other) that extended offstage. They collaborated with Watts on outside music projects, explored jazz clubs together and talked about music over dinner.

Fowler said he has had periods of sadness, “but being here with the cats is healing. We are all in the same place. It’s a shock. I’m sure they (Jagger, Richards and Wood) knew more than I did. I thought that he was on the mend after his surgery. I was hopeful that he was, at the very least, going to join us next year.”

Both Fowler and Ries spoke about Watts’ jazz-influenced drumming style, his elegant and graceful manner, and his swing. He cultivated his passion for jazz from a very young age, which shaped the sound of the Stones, they said.

But they also spoke about his warmth and kindness.

“He was not ‘a’ gentleman — he was ‘the’ gentleman,” said Fowler. “When I first entered the Rolling Stone world 33 years ago, there was a storm and, in that storm, there was always calm. And that came from him. … Charlie was the reason why I’m able to venture into the jazz world. I sang on three of his jazz recordings. Charlie was a jazz aficionado; he wasn’t just a fan of the music. You name the artist and he could tell you who played on his record and where that record was recorded. That was who he was.

“But that’s not all he was. Charlie had his ear to the ground. He tried to stay current even though he wasn’t a fan of the new popular genres. I remember about two tours ago, we were in rehearsal and we were talking about hip-hop. Charlie said to me, ‘Bernard, Dr. Dre — “Keep Their Heads Ringin.” ‘ I said ‘Yeah man, I’m grooving on that track, Charlie.’ He said, ‘It’s not my favorite genre of music but, Bernard, I quite like that song.’ Charlie dug that track. He was aware.”

Watts also liked the rapper Ludacris, Fowler said.

Ries said that some band members were already rehearsing before he left to join them. “Mick and Keith and Ronnie are there with Steve Jordan on drums and (keyboardist) Chuck Leavell and (bassist) Darryl Jones,” he said, last week. “They’ve already been rehearsing for a couple of weeks now. So, for us (Ries and Fowler), arriving next week, it’s going to be a shock and weird walking in the room and seeing the drums.

There’s been waves of sadness and crying and missing him. The first rehearsal is going to be difficult. And then the first gig onstage in front of people, that’s going to be another a hard night. There’s going to be waves of difficulty over the course of many years.

“We knew he wasn’t going to be on this tour because he was not well, but the hope was that he would get better and then next year — the 60th anniversary of the band — I assumed that they’d be thinking about touring, and then he’d be healthy enough for that tour.”

Watts started his career playing in a jazz band, and continued playing in jazz groups he led himself, while in the Stones.

“Charlie created a new way of playing rock music on drums,” said Ries. “His touch on the drums, swing feel … it’s very unique. You have Keith Richards coming more from blues and early rock influences, combine that with Charlie’s influence with jazz … that’s what created the Stones. So in a sense, the Stones did create a whole new genre. And Mick is one of the greatest entertainers of all time. In the last 50 or 60 years, there’s a handful of people — and Mick is one of them, like Frank Sinatra, Michael Jackson, James Brown — who when they get onstage, you’re galvanized by their presence.”

Watts, said Ries, “would never think of himself as such a great drummer. He didn’t like taking drum solos. He was modest and humble.”

Among the jazz drummers who influenced Watts the most were Max Roach and Roy Haynes. “This is what he saw live, growing up in London and then moving to New York,” said Ries. “The level of musicianship has been set by the masters of the instrument, so once that has happened, you are humbled by the music and you try to attain the highest level that you can.

“He played an old Gretsch set of drums, which is like what a lot of old jazz drummers in the ’40s, ’50s and ’60s played. It was a very small jazz drum kit … the way he touched the drums … the way he hit the drums, it was not like a typical rock drummer who would bash the drums really loudly.

“When you look at somebody that is a jazz drummer, the way they hold their hands and wrist, the way they touch the cymbals and drums, it’s different. He had what’s called a traditional grip. The traditional grip is where the stick is in your left hand upside down, facing you … Like the old marching band field drumming … The way he held the drum stick is very jazz-like and the manner in which way he played was, too. There’s a 12/8 underlying swing beat even within the kind of rock ‘n’ roll music that he played.

“I got to hang out with him a lot offstage whenever the Stones would be in a different city — Chicago, Detroit or Los Angeles, New York. If he had an off night, we would go to jazz clubs or theater, or if there was a group, he’d always want to go. He’d call me and say, ‘This group is playing. Do you want to go?’ We’d go and have dinner and we’d go hear the music.”

Ries spoke fondly of Watts’ involvement with his albums The Rolling Stones Project (2005) and Stones World: The Rolling Stones Project II (2008), which featured Stones songs arranged for jazz ensembles.

“We recorded the first time in L.A. with Charlie, Keith and Ronnie in that first recording session. Sheryl Crow and Darryl Jones played on it and Larry Goldings, a great organist. We were in Germany, then Bill Frisell came by and we recorded in Munich. Then we recorded in Portugal — and this was all with Charlie. Another one in L.A. with West African singers and Charlie.

“He was like a little kid on the drums during these sessions. We recorded in Paris in July … the studio had no air conditioning and must have been 100 degrees. Charlie was wearing a T-shirt and was amazing.”

One of Ries’ favorite tracks from the album is one of the two versions recorded of “Honky Tonk Women.”

During the first session in Los Angeles, Watts, Wood and Richards recorded “Honky Tonk Women” as they do with the Stones. “We recorded their version with me playing saxophone instead of Mick singing and then we did one of Keith’s great tunes, ‘Slipping Away.’ Then Keith and Ronnie left. Sheryl Crow and Darryl Jones left.”

Ries remained in the studio with Watts and Goldings. Ries said that he told Watts, “Charlie, I’d love to do ‘Honky Tonk Women’ like an organ trio, like in a little club in Newark in the 1960s.” Watts agreed to play drums as part of the trio, with Goldings on organ and Ries on saxophone. “We did one version and that was it. I think it was the most unique … just playing jazz straightaway.”

Fowler and Ries have performed these unique arrangements with notable ensembles while touring at gigs on off nights in jazz clubs for years. Watts would attend to watch and would usually join in.

I saw Ries and Fowler perform at the Jazz Standard in New York in 2019 when Watts stayed on the sidelines. The evening was a magical fusion of rock, jazz and spoken word by Fowler, Ries, drummer Terreon Gully and trumpeter Wallace Roney. I caught a glimpse of Watts and Fowler talking before the show started and have a strong memory of Watts’ focus on and warmth towards Fowler.

Fowler told me what happened when he received the news of Watts’ death: “I got the call early in the morning. When I got the call, I don’t think people knew about it. So I had to keep it to myself until they all knew. It was definitely a shock to the system. People sent a lot of love. I was in a really blue place.”

Singer-songwriter La Forrest “La La” Cope, best known for writing the Whitney Houston hit “You Give Good Love,” sent him a comforting passage from Henry Scott Holland’s 1910 sermon “Death Is Nothing at All.”

Fowler said, “A good friend of mine (Cope) sent me a clip, I read it one, then two or three times. And I can’t wait to hug her because the thing that she sent me took me out of where I was. I saw some rays of sun after the third time I read it. It really helped me.”

Fowler sent me the sermon that helped him move forward. It reads, in part, “Death is nothing at all. It does not count. I have only slipped away into the next room. Nothing has happened. Everything remains exactly as it was. I am I, and you are you, and the old life that we lived so fondly together is untouched, unchanged. Whatever we were to each other, that we are still.”

Fowler released his third solo album, Inside Out, in 2019 on the Jersey City-based Rhyme & Reason Records label. It’s a stirring and evocative collection of Stones material — featuring nine of the band’s songs as spoken word with Jordan on drums, Jones on bass, Mike Garson on piano and others — that reveals Fowler’s soul and depth and provides another portal to appreciate the range of the Stones’ lyrics.

“Charlie liked that record and his comment to me was, ‘Bernard, that was quite brave of you,’ and that was a heavy compliment,” said Fowler. “He understood exactly what I did. I guess he appreciated the balls I had to actually go do that.”

Fowler said he got into some trouble once, while touring. He declined to share the details, saving them for his own book. But Watts’ reaction shook him up.

“When he found out about it, he expressed his distaste,” said Fowler. “And the look that he gave me, nothing else fazed me about what I did. The only thing that fazed me was the look that I got from Charlie. He was somebody that I would never want to let down. I’d never want him disappointed in me. He was not pleased and he gave me the look and he let me know.

“On the other hand, Keith looked at me and he winked.”

Watts and Fowler also connected through their interest in Arabian horses.

“We looked at Arabian horses together all the time,” Fowler said.

Their outings started when Fowler had a conversation with Watts’ wife “when I first started working for the Stones — maybe a year before the release of Steel Wheels,” he said. “When we toured all over the world, we looked at Arab studs. Charlie would call me and say, ‘Bernard, there’s an Arab stud horse farm to look at, would you like to come?’ That’s what we did together. Or we’d have dinner or see a local jazz show.

“He was very supportive of my endeavors outside the band. He listened and he paid attention to what I was doing and (what) people were doing outside the Stones.”

Before Ries left for rehearsal, he had a lot of communication with band members.

“It’s been difficult,” he said. “I spoke with Bernard a lot, Darryl, Chuck Leavell, Ronnie Wood. We’ve been texting. I sent messages to Keith and Mick with my condolences.

“I have my own connection to Charlie which is very special, but I can’t imagine what it’s like for Keith and Mick, going back more than 60 years. That’s like brothers. And Charlie was like the glue, a diplomat. I’ve never seen him upset.

“I’m not a Rolling Stone; I’m a musician who plays with them. They have a 60-year history that goes back so deeply. I’m feeling the pain and the shock of this, but for them, I can’t imagine.

“They’re almost 80 years old and this hit me the other day: It’s not exactly the same, but there was a period when the New York Yankees used to be Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle, but that didn’t end when they were gone. They had many great years as a team after that. The Rolling Stones is not a baseball team, but the reality is that musicians don’t retire. We play until we die because what are we going to do? This is our love. And Charlie was passionate about playing, and Mick loves performing. Mick is not onstage dialing it in.”

And so they continue, launching their fall tour, despite the pandemic and their loss.

[www.njarts.net]

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-09-10 16:13 by MisterDDDD.

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IanBillen

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bye bye johnny
Mr. Billen, you've posted nothing recently other than your interest in the cause of Charlie's death.

Please quit while you're behind.

Its a free country and that is precisely what this thread is about. I am trying to get to the bottom of what The Stones knew ..

IORR is NOT a "free country". If you keep bugging us with the same question again and again, then it is called a campagning, as per the IORR posting rules, easily available through a link on the very top of the forum pages.

Please stop the nagging about this, it is offending and hurting when many are still mourning from the loss. Charlie Watts died sadly. The cause and the other parts of his passing are private, not to be published, unless his closest want to do so.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-09-10 17:07 by bv.

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TheflyingDutchman
Quite odd to notice that Charlie 's passing after two + weeks has become off - sticky on the greatest Rolling Stones site in the world. Now we know for a 100% that the Glimmer Twins are basically all about money. Thanks anyway BV, very emphatic move.

I would call this an offending post. Respect please. If you do not like the way I edit and moderate IORR then feel free to leave.

The Rolling Stones are in the middle of rehearsals for a new tour. The tour will start in 16 days. Charlie died 17 days ago. I have been living my life as a Stones fan and also as a Charlie fan since 1971 i.e. for fifty - 50 - years. I miss Charlie every day I wake up, and every day I go to bed. But The Rolling Stones are still rolling.

Charlie Watts is of course honored on IORR with a separate main link on the IORR home pages, that link will stay there forever. While the forum is dynamic and do reflect what is on at all times, the IORR home page is the master page of IORR.

Charlie Watts

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-09-10 17:09 by bv.

True. It's actually possible to miss Charlie but also appreciate the fact that the band keeps on going for now. The two aren't mutually exclusive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-09-10 22:57 by Topi.

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Topi
True. It's actually possible to miss Charlie but also appreciate the fact that the band krrps on going for now. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Absolutely agree. I think we’re all hurting and mourning in our own ways, but Charlie’s passing serves as a reminder that all our days are fleeting and I’m grateful for the opportunity to see the rest of the band a few more times while they’re still willing and able.

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ribbelchips

First and foremost: when someone dies, It's always a private matter.
………………

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe they have any obligations to us. I don't even want to know what his last words were and what he last ate. but a message that he appreciated his fans and that he is now privately buried. That's not too much to ask is it?

You think he didn’t appreciate his fans? Why do you need his still grieving family to pat you on the back? And you want to hear from someone that their loved one has been privately buried? Which sort of seems obvious anyway, but you need to hear it?

Rod

He died on 8/24/21. They have said nothing other than posting their "touching" photos on social media. Added a date to their 2021 tour without him. Their
website - after their "touching" website photo of him - has returned to business as usual. Makes me physically sick. As a fan since the 70's, this is unconscionable. They are so cold-hearted they think it as "business as usual." Don't give me that they are "mourning in private." Masters of publicity, they could have uttered a few words publicly about losing him. They are - as a casual friend and fan said of them after Charlie's death - "Greedy whores who will always be remembered that way." Sad. What a terrible ending to a band that meant the world to me.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-09-11 05:19 by Spodlumt.

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Spodlumt
He died on 8/24/21. They have said nothing other than posting their "touching" photos on social media. Added a date to their 2021 tour without him. There website - after their "touching" website photo of him - has returned to business as usual. Makes me physically sick. As a fans since the 70's, this is unconscionable. They are so cold-hearted they think it as "business as usual." Don't give me that they are "mourning in private." Masters of publicity, they could have uttered a few words publicly about losing him. They are - as a casual friend and fan said of them after Charlie's death - "Greedy whores who will always be remembered that way."
Sad. What a terrible ending to a band that meant the world to me.

There's no way this is true.

I understand your grief.

We don't know what's happening behind the scenes at all. I don't believe anyone was expecting this outcome...and as shocked as we are were/are, I'm sure they are more so.

There may still be a memorial by his bandmates that are worthy of his friendship and contribution to the success of the last 60 years.

Strange days..................

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Who are we - you or I - to define how others feel and express the pain and grief of a loss?

Sadness and grief is shared with those who are closest to yourself.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-09-11 16:32 by bv.

I think the absence of reaction from the band (at least in public) is something fully understantable. Let’s face the truth.. we only know their public image and they show us only things that are in relation with their music and tours (that we love of course… ) and their business. It’s just entertainment after all and we have no rights on their private life (even if they are smart enough to accept to meet some of them, etc…).

The loss of Charlie is their private life. I think we can’t imagine how affected they are with this loss… no reaction means they are under shock and probably devastated.

In few years, we will probably learn more about it (is it really so important to know what’s going on behind the curtains ?).

But now is a time of reflection and silence…

Farewell to Charlie, one of my heroes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-09-11 10:42 by RiffKichards.

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Spodlumt

Masters of publicity, they could have uttered a few words publicly about losing him.

Wait until the Tour starts - maybe they'll do something special at every Show to commemorate Charlie.

A bit surprised the "news" section of the Stones website doesn't mention Charlie.

I get it, I said myself that they would let their actions speak for themselves, but still...

Quote
Spodlumt
He died on 8/24/21. They have said nothing other than posting their "touching" photos on social media. Added a date to their 2021 tour without him. Their
website - after their "touching" website photo of him - has returned to business as usual. Makes me physically sick. As a fan since the 70's, this is unconscionable. They are so cold-hearted they think it as "business as usual." Don't give me that they are "mourning in private." Masters of publicity, they could have uttered a few words publicly about losing him. They are - as a casual friend and fan said of them after Charlie's death - "Greedy whores who will always be remembered that way." Sad. What a terrible ending to a band that meant the world to me.

They will say something, in their OWN time.

It's still too early for them, and a difficult situation. We gotta respect that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-09-11 12:12 by DandelionPowderman.

It's entirely possible that they are preparing something for the pre-show video before the band hits the stage. I like the idea of kicking off the show with a video of Charlie playing an opening drum riff, like GOMC, with the band joining in synch with a flash of lights and loud guitars.

HBK

Why Charlie Watts Mattered: Our Podcast Tribute to the Rolling Stones’ Late Drummer

The Black Keys’ Patrick Carney and the E Street Band’s Max Weinberg join Rolling Stone Music Now for a look back at a rock legend

By Brian Hiatt
September 10, 2021

[www.rollingstone.com]