Tell Me :
Talk
I follow what you're saying. It's as if other outsiders provide each of them with the needed spark to be creative again, because the other is not doing that at this point in time. It's as if they've become too protective of the image - as they each see it - than they are of creating new output. Despite the argument others make about solo artists vs. bands, folks like Bruce, Neil Young, and Macca keep producing and releasing new stuff all the time, and the first two just put it out regardless of it's reception, and I give them both a lot of props for that.
Yes its as though since 94' Mick and Keith just cancel each other out.
But we get the tours and im just happy they continue, its a phenomenon that they still perform at this level to audiences this size at 78 years of age.
Agreed!!!
A deep pleasure to read a post that holds forth the nuances like this.
I have sometimes speculatively wondered if a more favourable reception to UNDERCOVER might have made Mick interested to tour on the basis of that album and, besides, given Mick incentives to do a serious follow-up to the Pathe Marconi albums instead of wanting to record a solo album. Where UNDERCOVER may be a not so easily approchable album for all listeners, a possible follow-up or two could have been different that way. Thinkably, the relation between Mick and Keith might have been less bad as a consequence. And possibly, instead of DIRTY WORK as the band's next album, we would have been left with more albums in the vein of the Pathe Marconi ones instead.
Later edit: One word had fallen out, "been".
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-17 23:04 by Witness.
What are the Pathe Marconi ones??
A large chunk of Tattoo You was also recorded there. I thought all of SG and DW as well? Wasn't it ER that was also recorded in LA and Bahamas, as well as at Pathe Marconi?
Some of your objections I tried to write down in my second post. Maybe so clumsily that you did not notice.
By the way, my use of the phrase was out of laziness. I have for a long time experienced it as there are some common traits about SOME GIRLS, EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER. One, and probably you, may disagree, but that is how I feel. A continuation of that was what I had on my mind in the former post as a speculation, in case UNDERCOVER had been better received.
No disagreement here
Thanks Witness!
I have always thought that 50% of the reason Mick went solo was to copy David Bowie. "Lemme see, David gets all the profits. He pays his musicians salaries on tour and session man rates when recording. I can do this!"
Mick and Bowie were hanging out a lot in the 1980s. Remember them doing "Dancing in the Streets" for Live Aid? Kinda campy and gayish even. There are many photos of Mick and David at various hotspots, sitting at the same table etc.
Mick started to envy Bowie's arrangement with his musicians. Make lots more money while jettisoning the troublesome Keith. Lots more status too in being a main man with a solo career, than "dependent" on a group called the Rolling Stones. Micks main goals back then were performing, making more money, bedding more and different (diverse) women, hanging out with UK aristos, jet-setters, fashion people in NY.
Do you have any details about their fighting during the ER mixing sessions? Somehow this seems to have escaped me. I remember having read that Keith spent a lot of time producing alternative mixes but that there was an escalating fight is new to me.
It's years of reading in books and online. This is a good place to start, though it doesn't say much, and it gives some insite that they did not record everything at Pathe Marconi in Paris as well, between 1977 and 1985, of which, band wise, only SOME GIRLS and UNDERCOVER were fully recorded at.
[timeisonourside.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-18 05:57 by GasLightStreet.
Lol
When it comes to Mick, Keith said there's no joy in beating up a whimp
Make No Mistake
Hate It When You Leave
You Don't Move Me
Words Of Wonder
Suspicious
Robbed Blind
Locked Away
Take It So Hard
Wicked As It Seems
Nothing On Me
Demon
How I Wish
Boring? Some bore easily, it seems...
The funny thing is that in the 60s it was Keith who was the hard-working professional, spewing out musical ideas and nearly finished songs. So the "style" we're talking about here was something he adapted to after becoming a junky, surely.
Something tells me Mick learned a lot about songwriting from Keith in the 60s. It's interesting to watch then in the Charlie Is My Darling-film. Listening to the Between The Buttons- and Satanic-sessions as well.
Please point me to the tracks the Stones did that were similar in style to Make No Mistake and Hate It When You Leave.
You Don't Move is a classic, on par with the best they've ever done, imo.
It's interesting that you call rock'n'roll, blues and rhythm and blues "redundant". Shouldn't you have moved on from the Stones, if you really mean that? There are plenty great bands to choose from.
The ones I mentioned in my latest post.
Most of them are just as good as Heartbreaker, imo.
And I prefer Take It So Hard to Happy.
I’ll take any of em over Angie. But you don’t talk about his Stones’ contributions since 81. Sleep Tonight, Love Is Strong, Slipping Away, Thru & Thru, How Can I Stop, Infamy.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: August 17, 2021 17:27
I know what you mean about TIC voodoolounge13, vocally Keith hadn't quite found his voice, a far more polished overall sound on his two solo albums that followed.
That's what i meant in a earlier post on this thread, had Mick and Keith stayed solo or created a new band they would have become better and more productive song writers ( as observed with Wondering Spirt / Crosseyed Heart) than we have experienced on the Stones albums that followed. I think both Mick and Keith shine when they collaborate with others, is it fair to say they have had a complete breakdown in their working relationship since Voodoo Lounge, that was the last combined effort.
It's a bit sad that they can't even finish the forthcoming album, doesn't take much guessing to assume they can't agree on anything, even when it comes to finishing unfinished tracks from previous albums.
Personally i don't think this new album will ever be released while both of them are alive.
That's what i meant in a earlier post on this thread, had Mick and Keith stayed solo or created a new band they would have become better and more productive song writers ( as observed with Wondering Spirt / Crosseyed Heart) than we have experienced on the Stones albums that followed. I think both Mick and Keith shine when they collaborate with others, is it fair to say they have had a complete breakdown in their working relationship since Voodoo Lounge, that was the last combined effort.
It's a bit sad that they can't even finish the forthcoming album, doesn't take much guessing to assume they can't agree on anything, even when it comes to finishing unfinished tracks from previous albums.
Personally i don't think this new album will ever be released while both of them are alive.
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: August 17, 2021 18:27
Quote
Rocktiludrop
I know what you mean about TIC voodoolounge13, vocally Keith hadn't quite found his voice, a far more polished overall sound on his two solo albums that followed.
That's what i meant in a earlier post on this thread, had Mick and Keith stayed solo or created a new band they would have become better and more productive song writers ( as observed with Wondering Spirt / Crosseyed Heart) than we have experienced on the Stones albums that followed. I think both Mick and Keith shine when they collaborate with others, is it fair to say they have had a complete breakdown in their working relationship since Voodoo Lounge, that was the last combined effort.
It's a bit sad that they can't even finish the forthcoming album, doesn't take much guessing to assume they can't agree on anything, even when it comes to finishing unfinished tracks from previous albums.
Personally i don't think this new album will ever be released while both of them are alive.
I follow what you're saying. It's as if other outsiders provide each of them with the needed spark to be creative again, because the other is not doing that at this point in time. It's as if they've become too protective of the image - as they each see it - than they are of creating new output. Despite the argument others make about solo artists vs. bands, folks like Bruce, Neil Young, and Macca keep producing and releasing new stuff all the time, and the first two just put it out regardless of it's reception, and I give them both a lot of props for that.
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: August 17, 2021 18:33
Quote
VoodooLounge13Quote
Rocktiludrop
I know what you mean about TIC voodoolounge13, vocally Keith hadn't quite found his voice, a far more polished overall sound on his two solo albums that followed.
That's what i meant in a earlier post on this thread, had Mick and Keith stayed solo or created a new band they would have become better and more productive song writers ( as observed with Wondering Spirt / Crosseyed Heart) than we have experienced on the Stones albums that followed. I think both Mick and Keith shine when they collaborate with others, is it fair to say they have had a complete breakdown in their working relationship since Voodoo Lounge, that was the last combined effort.
It's a bit sad that they can't even finish the forthcoming album, doesn't take much guessing to assume they can't agree on anything, even when it comes to finishing unfinished tracks from previous albums.
Personally i don't think this new album will ever be released while both of them are alive.
I follow what you're saying. It's as if other outsiders provide each of them with the needed spark to be creative again, because the other is not doing that at this point in time. It's as if they've become too protective of the image - as they each see it - than they are of creating new output. Despite the argument others make about solo artists vs. bands, folks like Bruce, Neil Young, and Macca keep producing and releasing new stuff all the time, and the first two just put it out regardless of it's reception, and I give them both a lot of props for that.
Yes its as though since 94' Mick and Keith just cancel each other out.
But we get the tours and im just happy they continue, its a phenomenon that they still perform at this level to audiences this size at 78 years of age.
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: August 17, 2021 18:52
Quote
RocktiludropQuote
VoodooLounge13Quote
Rocktiludrop
I know what you mean about TIC voodoolounge13, vocally Keith hadn't quite found his voice, a far more polished overall sound on his two solo albums that followed.
That's what i meant in a earlier post on this thread, had Mick and Keith stayed solo or created a new band they would have become better and more productive song writers ( as observed with Wondering Spirt / Crosseyed Heart) than we have experienced on the Stones albums that followed. I think both Mick and Keith shine when they collaborate with others, is it fair to say they have had a complete breakdown in their working relationship since Voodoo Lounge, that was the last combined effort.
It's a bit sad that they can't even finish the forthcoming album, doesn't take much guessing to assume they can't agree on anything, even when it comes to finishing unfinished tracks from previous albums.
Personally i don't think this new album will ever be released while both of them are alive.
I follow what you're saying. It's as if other outsiders provide each of them with the needed spark to be creative again, because the other is not doing that at this point in time. It's as if they've become too protective of the image - as they each see it - than they are of creating new output. Despite the argument others make about solo artists vs. bands, folks like Bruce, Neil Young, and Macca keep producing and releasing new stuff all the time, and the first two just put it out regardless of it's reception, and I give them both a lot of props for that.
Yes its as though since 94' Mick and Keith just cancel each other out.
But we get the tours and im just happy they continue, its a phenomenon that they still perform at this level to audiences this size at 78 years of age.
Agreed!!!
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
StonedRambler
()
Date: August 17, 2021 18:54
People often only see Keith's side because he wrote about it in 'Life' but the more you read about Mick's situation from other people the more you understand him.
Keith started to become a real hard junkie during the exile sessions. He himself thought he could work really good and hard with the stuff but in reality the songs took them forever to record and nobody knew when Keith would show up. Everything had to follow his pace or he would get agressive. People were afraid of him since he always carrying a knife with him. Mick tolerated that for a long time but at the beginning of the 80s Keith was so down and out that Mick decided to finish old tracks for the new album. That became Tattoo You. The fact that they had to do that shows how bad Keith waa functioning at the tine. Then people made Mick aware that being a solo artist was an option he could consider. The way Keith was at the time I can imagine it was liberating for Mick not to depend on a junkie anymore. That was also the time when Mick found a healthier and more disciplined lifestyle for himself. That's when they seperated more and more from one another, personally and emotionally.
I think Mick often gets perceived as the guily one whose ego was too big but that's really not the whole truth. In fact I think Mick is a much more caring person that most people thing. Charlie said everybody stopped believing that Ronnie could quit the alcohol but not Mick. He always believed he would make it. And that's what he did
Keith started to become a real hard junkie during the exile sessions. He himself thought he could work really good and hard with the stuff but in reality the songs took them forever to record and nobody knew when Keith would show up. Everything had to follow his pace or he would get agressive. People were afraid of him since he always carrying a knife with him. Mick tolerated that for a long time but at the beginning of the 80s Keith was so down and out that Mick decided to finish old tracks for the new album. That became Tattoo You. The fact that they had to do that shows how bad Keith waa functioning at the tine. Then people made Mick aware that being a solo artist was an option he could consider. The way Keith was at the time I can imagine it was liberating for Mick not to depend on a junkie anymore. That was also the time when Mick found a healthier and more disciplined lifestyle for himself. That's when they seperated more and more from one another, personally and emotionally.
I think Mick often gets perceived as the guily one whose ego was too big but that's really not the whole truth. In fact I think Mick is a much more caring person that most people thing. Charlie said everybody stopped believing that Ronnie could quit the alcohol but not Mick. He always believed he would make it. And that's what he did
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: August 17, 2021 20:41
It's a bit odd, though, their not getting along, considering how many songs recorded for SG and ER, what work they did on TY, the 1981 tour, as well as them getting together in October and November of 1982 to record demos for UNDERCOVER, just under three months after the 1982 tour, as well as all that they recorded for U. The great divide occurred in 1983 with Mick's push for the direction that U took and then the Stones signing a new record deal that also happen to be the same time Mick signed a solo deal, which everyone knew about, according to Mick, as I recall, and Mick starting work on his first solo album that fall.
Keith's behavior leading up to TATTOO YOU is probably the key factor - based on so many things published, he was supposedly a barely functioning obnoxious drunk honking on coke while establishing his relationship with Patti.
Then there's the 'Mick had carried the band for quite a while due to Keith's heroin train' thing and the 'I'm back' bit from Keith and Mick's supposed unhappiness with giving up control.
It's rather well documented that their fighting escalated during the ER mixing sessions and carried on into 1981.
All of that on top of Ronnie's ridiculous drugging and trouble and Charlie wanting to quit.
Bill just chewed gum.
It is amazing that they continued on and were able to record and perform.
Perhaps the fighting is an aspect of life they never learned when younger, or not very well, about how to handle oneself, so there's a childish aspect to the fighting, clearly on Keith's part, with their character being so different and Mick's much more reserved and clear maturity in handling his emotions etc. Maybe Mick evolved and Keith stayed rather adolescent.
Seems that way.
Keith's behavior leading up to TATTOO YOU is probably the key factor - based on so many things published, he was supposedly a barely functioning obnoxious drunk honking on coke while establishing his relationship with Patti.
Then there's the 'Mick had carried the band for quite a while due to Keith's heroin train' thing and the 'I'm back' bit from Keith and Mick's supposed unhappiness with giving up control.
It's rather well documented that their fighting escalated during the ER mixing sessions and carried on into 1981.
All of that on top of Ronnie's ridiculous drugging and trouble and Charlie wanting to quit.
Bill just chewed gum.
It is amazing that they continued on and were able to record and perform.
Perhaps the fighting is an aspect of life they never learned when younger, or not very well, about how to handle oneself, so there's a childish aspect to the fighting, clearly on Keith's part, with their character being so different and Mick's much more reserved and clear maturity in handling his emotions etc. Maybe Mick evolved and Keith stayed rather adolescent.
Seems that way.
Re: What caused the fight??u
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: August 17, 2021 21:47
Quote
GasLightStreet
It's a bit odd, though, their not getting along, considering how many songs recorded for SG and ER, what work they did on TY, the 1981 tour, as well as them getting together in October and November of 1982 to record demos for UNDERCOVER, just under three months after the 1982 tour, as well as all that they recorded for U. The great divide occurred in 1983 with Mick's push for the direction that U took and then the Stones signing a new record deal that also happen to be the same time Mick signed a solo deal, which everyone knew about, according to Mick, as I recall, and Mick starting work on his first solo album that fall.
Keith's behavior leading up to TATTOO YOU is probably the key factor - based on so many things published, he was supposedly a barely functioning obnoxious drunk honking on coke while establishing his relationship with Patti.
Then there's the 'Mick had carried the band for quite a while due to Keith's heroin train' thing and the 'I'm back' bit from Keith and Mick's supposed unhappiness with giving up control.
It's rather well documented that their fighting escalated during the ER mixing sessions and carried on into 1981.
All of that on top of Ronnie's ridiculous drugging and trouble and Charlie wanting to quit.
Bill just chewed gum.
It is amazing that they continued on and were able to record and perform.
Perhaps the fighting is an aspect of life they never learned when younger, or not very well, about how to handle oneself, so there's a childish aspect to the fighting, clearly on Keith's part, with their character being so different and Mick's much more reserved and clear maturity in handling his emotions etc. Maybe Mick evolved and Keith stayed rather adolescent.
Seems that way.
A deep pleasure to read a post that holds forth the nuances like this.
I have sometimes speculatively wondered if a more favourable reception to UNDERCOVER might have made Mick interested to tour on the basis of that album and, besides, given Mick incentives to do a serious follow-up to the Pathe Marconi albums instead of wanting to record a solo album. Where UNDERCOVER may be a not so easily approchable album for all listeners, a possible follow-up or two could have been different that way. Thinkably, the relation between Mick and Keith might have been less bad as a consequence. And possibly, instead of DIRTY WORK as the band's next album, we would have been left with more albums in the vein of the Pathe Marconi ones instead.
Later edit: One word had fallen out, "been".
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-17 23:04 by Witness.
Re: What caused the fight??u
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: August 17, 2021 22:25
Quote
WitnessQuote
GasLightStreet
It's a bit odd, though, their not getting along, considering how many songs recorded for SG and ER, what work they did on TY, the 1981 tour, as well as them getting together in October and November of 1982 to record demos for UNDERCOVER, just under three months after the 1982 tour, as well as all that they recorded for U. The great divide occurred in 1983 with Mick's push for the direction that U took and then the Stones signing a new record deal that also happen to be the same time Mick signed a solo deal, which everyone knew about, according to Mick, as I recall, and Mick starting work on his first solo album that fall.
Keith's behavior leading up to TATTOO YOU is probably the key factor - based on so many things published, he was supposedly a barely functioning obnoxious drunk honking on coke while establishing his relationship with Patti.
Then there's the 'Mick had carried the band for quite a while due to Keith's heroin train' thing and the 'I'm back' bit from Keith and Mick's supposed unhappiness with giving up control.
It's rather well documented that their fighting escalated during the ER mixing sessions and carried on into 1981.
All of that on top of Ronnie's ridiculous drugging and trouble and Charlie wanting to quit.
Bill just chewed gum.
It is amazing that they continued on and were able to record and perform.
Perhaps the fighting is an aspect of life they never learned when younger, or not very well, about how to handle oneself, so there's a childish aspect to the fighting, clearly on Keith's part, with their character being so different and Mick's much more reserved and clear maturity in handling his emotions etc. Maybe Mick evolved and Keith stayed rather adolescent.
Seems that way.
A deep pleasure to read a post that holds forth the nuances like this.
I have sometimes speculatively wondered if a more favourable reception to UNDERCOVER might have made Mick interested to tour on the basis of that album and, besides, given Mick incentives to do a serious follow-up to the Pathe Marconi albums instead of wanting to record a solo album. Where UNDERCOVER may be a not so easily approchable album for all listeners, a possible follow-up or two could have been different that way. Thinkably, the relation between Mick and Keith might have been less bad as a consequence. And possibly, instead of DIRTY WORK as the band's next album, we would have left with more albums in the vein of the Pathe Marconi ones instead.
What are the Pathe Marconi ones??
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: August 17, 2021 22:55
The Pathe Marconi albums are the albums recorded in the Pathe Marconi studio in Paris.
Look at those details in the Album Talk threads for SOME GIRLS, (in part) for EMOTIONAL RESCUE and for UNDERCOVER. (Now I discover what I was not aware of, and I did not have that album in mind, quite the contrary. Even DIRTY WORK was in part recorded there.)
Look at those details in the Album Talk threads for SOME GIRLS, (in part) for EMOTIONAL RESCUE and for UNDERCOVER. (Now I discover what I was not aware of, and I did not have that album in mind, quite the contrary. Even DIRTY WORK was in part recorded there.)
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 17, 2021 23:14
Quote
Witness
The Pathe Marconi albums are the albums recorded in the Pathe Marconi studio in Paris.
Look at those details in the Album Talk threads for SOME GIRLS, (in part) for EMOTIONAL RESCUE and for UNDERCOVER. (Now I discover what I was not aware of, and I did not have that album in mind, quite the contrary. Even DIRTY WORK was in part recorded there.)
A large chunk of Tattoo You was also recorded there. I thought all of SG and DW as well? Wasn't it ER that was also recorded in LA and Bahamas, as well as at Pathe Marconi?
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: August 17, 2021 23:26
I wonder, ten rounds, featherweight, back in 1983. Who would have won? Jagger or Richards?
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 17, 2021 23:34
Quote
Stoneage
I wonder, ten rounds, featherweight, back in 1983. Who would have won? Jagger or Richards?
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: August 17, 2021 23:36
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Witness
The Pathe Marconi albums are the albums recorded in the Pathe Marconi studio in Paris.
Look at those details in the Album Talk threads for SOME GIRLS, (in part) for EMOTIONAL RESCUE and for UNDERCOVER. (Now I discover what I was not aware of, and I did not have that album in mind, quite the contrary. Even DIRTY WORK was in part recorded there.)
A large chunk of Tattoo You was also recorded there. I thought all of SG and DW as well? Wasn't it ER that was also recorded in LA and Bahamas, as well as at Pathe Marconi?
Some of your objections I tried to write down in my second post. Maybe so clumsily that you did not notice.
By the way, my use of the phrase was out of laziness. I have for a long time experienced it as there are some common traits about SOME GIRLS, EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER. One, and probably you, may disagree, but that is how I feel. A continuation of that was what I had on my mind in the former post as a speculation, in case UNDERCOVER had been better received.
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 17, 2021 23:38
Quote
WitnessQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Witness
The Pathe Marconi albums are the albums recorded in the Pathe Marconi studio in Paris.
Look at those details in the Album Talk threads for SOME GIRLS, (in part) for EMOTIONAL RESCUE and for UNDERCOVER. (Now I discover what I was not aware of, and I did not have that album in mind, quite the contrary. Even DIRTY WORK was in part recorded there.)
A large chunk of Tattoo You was also recorded there. I thought all of SG and DW as well? Wasn't it ER that was also recorded in LA and Bahamas, as well as at Pathe Marconi?
Some of your objections I tried to write down in my second post. Maybe so clumsily that you did not notice.
By the way, my use of the phrase was out of laziness. I have for a long time experienced it as there are some common traits about SOME GIRLS, EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER. One, and probably you, may disagree, but that is how I feel. A continuation of that was what I had on my mind in the former post as a speculation, in case UNDERCOVER had been better received.
No disagreement here
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: August 17, 2021 23:55
Quote
Witness
The Pathe Marconi albums are the albums recorded in the Pathe Marconi studio in Paris.
Look at those details in the Album Talk threads for SOME GIRLS, (in part) for EMOTIONAL RESCUE and for UNDERCOVER. (Now I discover what I was not aware of, and I did not have that album in mind, quite the contrary. Even DIRTY WORK was in part recorded there.)
Thanks Witness!
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
triceratops
()
Date: August 18, 2021 01:13
Quote
treaclefingers
After years of running the show, Keith kicks smack and tells Mick, "thanks man, I'm back" and Mick says, "that's great, I'm doing a solo album".
Keith shows him the blade and says F-you Brenda!
Well that didn't go too well, so Mick signs a secret solo deal with CBS, we get WWIII and the carnage that ensues includes She's The Boss, Dirty Work, no tour...wait, yes tour but Jagger solo tour & Prinitive Cool, and even more flotsam and jetsam, and Keith creates the magnificent Talk Is Cheap and takes some expensive winos on tour and when they both realize no one is actually making any money, Mick's Emotions has the band reunite to form the Vegas Stones and here we are.
I have always thought that 50% of the reason Mick went solo was to copy David Bowie. "Lemme see, David gets all the profits. He pays his musicians salaries on tour and session man rates when recording. I can do this!"
Mick and Bowie were hanging out a lot in the 1980s. Remember them doing "Dancing in the Streets" for Live Aid? Kinda campy and gayish even. There are many photos of Mick and David at various hotspots, sitting at the same table etc.
Mick started to envy Bowie's arrangement with his musicians. Make lots more money while jettisoning the troublesome Keith. Lots more status too in being a main man with a solo career, than "dependent" on a group called the Rolling Stones. Micks main goals back then were performing, making more money, bedding more and different (diverse) women, hanging out with UK aristos, jet-setters, fashion people in NY.
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
doitywoik
()
Date: August 18, 2021 02:12
Quote
GasLightStreet
It's rather well documented that their fighting escalated during the ER mixing sessions and carried on into 1981.
Do you have any details about their fighting during the ER mixing sessions? Somehow this seems to have escaped me. I remember having read that Keith spent a lot of time producing alternative mixes but that there was an escalating fight is new to me.
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: August 18, 2021 02:15
Keith’ssolo and Stones music since 1981 pales in comparison to his earlier great music.His solo work is boring , uninventive recycled r&bmusic.There are no Jumping Jack Flash or Gimme Shelter on any of them.At least Mick tried to be more adventurous even if he falls on his face a lot
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: August 18, 2021 05:53
Quote
doitywoikQuote
GasLightStreet
It's rather well documented that their fighting escalated during the ER mixing sessions and carried on into 1981.
Do you have any details about their fighting during the ER mixing sessions? Somehow this seems to have escaped me. I remember having read that Keith spent a lot of time producing alternative mixes but that there was an escalating fight is new to me.
It's years of reading in books and online. This is a good place to start, though it doesn't say much, and it gives some insite that they did not record everything at Pathe Marconi in Paris as well, between 1977 and 1985, of which, band wise, only SOME GIRLS and UNDERCOVER were fully recorded at.
[timeisonourside.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-18 05:57 by GasLightStreet.
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: August 18, 2021 09:54
Quote
Taylor1
Keith’ssolo and Stones music since 1981 pales in comparison to his earlier great music.His solo work is boring , uninventive recycled r&bmusic.There are no Jumping Jack Flash or Gimme Shelter on any of them.At least Mick tried to be more adventurous even if he falls on his face a lot
Lol
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: August 18, 2021 10:00
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Stoneage
I wonder, ten rounds, featherweight, back in 1983. Who would have won? Jagger or Richards?
When it comes to Mick, Keith said there's no joy in beating up a whimp
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 18, 2021 10:22
Quote
Taylor1
Keith’ssolo and Stones music since 1981 pales in comparison to his earlier great music.His solo work is boring , uninventive recycled r&bmusic.There are no Jumping Jack Flash or Gimme Shelter on any of them.At least Mick tried to be more adventurous even if he falls on his face a lot
Make No Mistake
Hate It When You Leave
You Don't Move Me
Words Of Wonder
Suspicious
Robbed Blind
Locked Away
Take It So Hard
Wicked As It Seems
Nothing On Me
Demon
How I Wish
Boring? Some bore easily, it seems...
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: August 18, 2021 10:50
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Jagger is, on one hand, a hard-working professional and pragmatist/realist, and on the other, very flip, offhand, and dismissive.
Keith is like a mafia member who believes he's taken a sacred oath of loyalty, and can be very domineering about his retrograde musical standards while at the same time working in a chaotic state waiting for inspiration to strike.
They're both concerned with their control of the band and their image, in different ways.
The conflicts between these two styles were inevitable, although they each give the other something they lack. I think it worked when they were younger because Keith was more in tune with the spirit of the times instead of trying to preserve something fading away and because Mick was less guarded and willing to just roll with things.
Human relationships are interesting, especially creative ones.
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 18, 2021 10:57
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matxilQuote
Send It To me
Jagger is, on one hand, a hard-working professional and pragmatist/realist, and on the other, very flip, offhand, and dismissive.
Keith is like a mafia member who believes he's taken a sacred oath of loyalty, and can be very domineering about his retrograde musical standards while at the same time working in a chaotic state waiting for inspiration to strike.
They're both concerned with their control of the band and their image, in different ways.
The conflicts between these two styles were inevitable, although they each give the other something they lack. I think it worked when they were younger because Keith was more in tune with the spirit of the times instead of trying to preserve something fading away and because Mick was less guarded and willing to just roll with things.
Human relationships are interesting, especially creative ones.
The funny thing is that in the 60s it was Keith who was the hard-working professional, spewing out musical ideas and nearly finished songs. So the "style" we're talking about here was something he adapted to after becoming a junky, surely.
Something tells me Mick learned a lot about songwriting from Keith in the 60s. It's interesting to watch then in the Charlie Is My Darling-film. Listening to the Between The Buttons- and Satanic-sessions as well.
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: August 18, 2021 13:23
All redundant, done before.Nothing new or inventive. Much prefer Mick’s attempts at electronica and danceQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Taylor1
Keith’ssolo and Stones music since 1981 pales in comparison to his earlier great music.His solo work is boring , uninventive recycled r&bmusic.There are no Jumping Jack Flash or Gimme Shelter on any of them.At least Mick tried to be more adventurous even if he falls on his face a lot
Make No Mistake
Hate It When You Leave
You Don't Move Me
Words Of Wonder
Suspicious
Robbed Blind
Locked Away
Take It So Hard
Wicked As It Seems
Nothing On Me
Demon
How I Wish
Boring? Some bore easily, it seems...
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 18, 2021 13:30
Quote
Taylor1Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Taylor1
Keith’ssolo and Stones music since 1981 pales in comparison to his earlier great music.His solo work is boring , uninventive recycled r&bmusic.There are no Jumping Jack Flash or Gimme Shelter on any of them.At least Mick tried to be more adventurous even if he falls on his face a lot
Make No Mistake
Hate It When You Leave
You Don't Move Me
Words Of Wonder
Suspicious
Robbed Blind
Locked Away
Take It So Hard
Wicked As It Seems
Nothing On Me
Demon
How I Wish
Boring? Some bore easily, it seems...
All redundant, done before.Nothing new or inventive. Much prefer Mick’s attempts at electronica and dance
Please point me to the tracks the Stones did that were similar in style to Make No Mistake and Hate It When You Leave.
You Don't Move is a classic, on par with the best they've ever done, imo.
It's interesting that you call rock'n'roll, blues and rhythm and blues "redundant". Shouldn't you have moved on from the Stones, if you really mean that? There are plenty great bands to choose from.
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: August 18, 2021 13:36
Tell me which of those songs is on the level of Gimme Shelter, Flash, Moonlight Mile, Rocks Off, Satisfaction, Heartbreaker, Shine A Light, Tumbling Dice, Happy, Angie, Street Fighting Man?
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: August 18, 2021 13:46
Quote
Taylor1
Tell me which of those songs is on the level of Gimme Shelter, Flash, Moonlight Mile, Rocks Off, Satisfaction, Heartbreaker, Shine A Light, Tumbling Dice, Happy, Angie, Street Fighting Man?
The ones I mentioned in my latest post.
Most of them are just as good as Heartbreaker, imo.
And I prefer Take It So Hard to Happy.
Re: What caused the fight??
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: August 18, 2021 13:59
Quote
Taylor1
Tell me which of those songs is on the level of Gimme Shelter, Flash, Moonlight Mile, Rocks Off, Satisfaction, Heartbreaker, Shine A Light, Tumbling Dice, Happy, Angie, Street Fighting Man?
I’ll take any of em over Angie. But you don’t talk about his Stones’ contributions since 81. Sleep Tonight, Love Is Strong, Slipping Away, Thru & Thru, How Can I Stop, Infamy.
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