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Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Rokyfan ()
Date: August 7, 2021 23:40

Quote
Rocktiludrop
Given that this was Charlies decision and that he discussed it with Mick and Keith, is anyone other than me willing to admit that this might be for the best, I've noticed Charlie has been struggling to keep pace for a few tours now, The Stones have been playing the songs too slow, it's like the Elephant in the room, it's ok to say Keith is past it or Mick's voice isn't so good but no one dare admit Charlie is not what he once was, I'd go so far as to say he's slightly over rated as a drummer these days, don't get me wrong this isn't personal , of course everyone loves Charlie and he is so loyal to the Stones and it will seem weird without him, but he's not dead, he has given his blessing and I'm sure he appreciates Steve helping the band out to fulfill these long awaited tour dates.
The point I'm making is that this is an exciting prospect when you get passed Charlie not touring this time round, this might bring some lost energy and pace that the Stones have been lacking since as far back as 2005' 06', this could actually 're-ignite' Keith, and let's be honest everything about the sound of the Stones is down to Keith and can this old Lion roar again.
I'm sorry if some find this attitude insensitive, but remember this post in a few months time and see if i was right.

Not insensitive just stupid.

They should replace Keith also with a young gunslinger who could play rings around him. Inject new energy.

I guess it depends on what you want.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Dougratajczak87 ()
Date: August 8, 2021 00:08

Quote
Rocktiludrop
Given that this was Charlies decision and that he discussed it with Mick and Keith, is anyone other than me willing to admit that this might be for the best, I've noticed Charlie has been struggling to keep pace for a few tours now, The Stones have been playing the songs too slow, it's like the Elephant in the room, it's ok to say Keith is past it or Mick's voice isn't so good but no one dare admit Charlie is not what he once was, I'd go so far as to say he's slightly over rated as a drummer these days, don't get me wrong this isn't personal , of course everyone loves Charlie and he is so loyal to the Stones and it will seem weird without him, but he's not dead, he has given his blessing and I'm sure he appreciates Steve helping the band out to fulfill these long awaited tour dates.
The point I'm making is that this is an exciting prospect when you get passed Charlie not touring this time round, this might bring some lost energy and pace that the Stones have been lacking since as far back as 2005' 06', this could actually 're-ignite' Keith, and let's be honest everything about the sound of the Stones is down to Keith and can this old Lion roar again.
I'm sorry if some find this attitude insensitive, but remember this post in a few months time and see if i was right.

Honestly I think Charlie plays that slow because that’s Keith’s preference.

If you listen to some of the sound board audio on YouTube from the 2019 tour, it’s pretty clear imo which guitar is which.

In my view, Ron has done the heavy lifting for Keith for a number of years and Charlie has helped pull Keith along.

That’s not to say that’s Keith playing is poor but is to say it’s clear imo that Ronnie is the most crisp of the two.

I think musically Steve Jordan will do well. It’s really just comes down to preferences. Do you want to remember the Stones as Ronnie, Charlie, Keith and Mick or are you open to a version of the core 4 (post 1994)?

At the end of the day, the band isn’t playing for the 5% of super fans, they are playing for the 1st or 2nd timers seeing the show first time with a bonus to the small faction of us also chasing another 1 or 2 new songs and another great performance.

It ultimately depends on what you want.

Having seen them one last time in the stadium setting, I’m honestly OK with either for myself and likely will ultimately sit this one out knowing it might be the last opportunity to see again (due to COVID risk (have 2 young daughters that are not able to get the vaccine yet).

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: August 8, 2021 00:13

I’m amazed that a soon to be 81 year old has the strength and coordination to play drums at the high quality that Charlie does.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: IanBillen ()
Date: August 8, 2021 00:21

Quote
timbernardis
What are you guys saying, "They still think Time is on Their Side" and "I mean they act as if they have a good ten years left. Sadly they do not."


The band doesn't think that, you guys act as if they are pretending or arrogant. They know their time is short. How do you know how they think or act anyway?


plexi


________________________________________


Was meaning from a recording stand point. Their perspective on the studio front. They keep talking about an album but no sign of that ...

They know their touring days are limited. Seems that is why they are squeezing touring in whenever they can. Their focus is on touring .. no putting out this
album (or albums over the last ten years).

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Rocktiludrop ()
Date: August 8, 2021 00:23

Quote
Woz
Quote
illyad1960
all this talk about no Charlie I believe will for nothing. After reading about the troubles Garth Brooks is having with his stadium tour and Covid I think this Stones tour gets cancelled. Too much risk with delta variant floating around.

Garth Brooks plays to the unvaccinated Fox crowd, that’s his audience. He should cancel.

Oh dear even this thread turns into covid vaccine politics, I'm sick of it .

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: MKjan ()
Date: August 8, 2021 00:45

I'm not going this time, because Charlie has always been so essential to their music and history. I can only hope I will see him back with the band in 2022.
If that doesn't happen, I will feel better that my last concert with the Stones included the inimitable Charlie Watts.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Rocktiludrop ()
Date: August 8, 2021 00:51

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 00:57 by Rocktiludrop.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: PalaisRoyale ()
Date: August 8, 2021 02:09

I wouldn't pay more then a lucky dip to see this
version of the band. Best wishes for Charlie.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: August 8, 2021 02:21

They might surprise us all, just like Gregory Isaacs, can't count them out until its over. Could be a new drummer will cause them all to rise to the occasion.

jb

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: IanBillen ()
Date: August 8, 2021 02:45

I would not want Charlie Watts back unless he is all well and given the all clear.


However .. Me thinks he might only miss 1/2 of the tour .. (<< all speculation ..
however there is kina/ sort of a little reading between the lines that might indicate that is a possibility).

Jus sayin.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: August 8, 2021 02:51

A sad and peculiar chapter towards the end of their story...not the final chapter, but it's getting there.
The absence of Charlie will be always be talked about in regards to what is probably their final US tour.
Thankully he's recovering, and that's about the only positive to be grateful for in this story as far as I'm concerned.
Bottom line; Charlie had a major emergency operation, and the rest of the band will continue without him...sounds a bit cold hearted imo.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: August 8, 2021 03:26

Quote
IanBillen
I would not want Charlie Watts back unless he is all well and given the all clear.


However .. Me thinks he might only miss 1/2 of the tour .. (<< all speculation ..
however there is kina/ sort of a little reading between the lines that might indicate that is a possibility).

Jus sayin.

Rejoining without any rehearsals after more than two years stage absence? Totally unrealistic imo.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: August 8, 2021 03:33

Quote
IanBillen
Quote
timbernardis
What are you guys saying, "They still think Time is on Their Side" and "I mean they act as if they have a good ten years left. Sadly they do not."


The band doesn't think that, you guys act as if they are pretending or arrogant. They know their time is short. How do you know how they think or act anyway?


plexi


________________________________________


Was meaning from a recording stand point. Their perspective on the studio front. They keep talking about an album but no sign of that ...

They know their touring days are limited. Seems that is why they are squeezing touring in whenever they can. Their focus is on touring .. no putting out this
album (or albums over the last ten years).


No sign? Latest reports about Charlie missing the US tour also mention that the album will be out next year "right in time for their 60th Anniversary celebrations".

I've been saying that for years... but you never believed me!

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Natlanta ()
Date: August 8, 2021 04:14

What?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 16:14 by Natlanta.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: IanBillen ()
Date: August 8, 2021 05:52

Quote
Hairball
A sad and peculiar chapter towards the end of their story...not the final chapter, but it's getting there.
The absence of Charlie will be always be talked about in regards to what is probably their final US tour.
Thankully he's recovering, and that's about the only positive to be grateful for in this story as far as I'm concerned.
Bottom line; Charlie had a major emergency operation, and the rest of the band will continue without him...sounds a bit cold hearted imo.


________________________________



Well ... we don't know if it was actually 'major' do we? It was needed fast obviously but we don't know if or how major it was? He is 80 .. So it may not have been a huge ordeal for someone younger ... but he is 80 .. and the concept of him playing drums in 14 days was pushing things may be more the case. Let's hope, anyway.

That could be more the case.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: IanBillen ()
Date: August 8, 2021 06:01

Quote
retired_dog
Quote
IanBillen
Quote
timbernardis
What are you guys saying, "They still think Time is on Their Side" and "I mean they act as if they have a good ten years left. Sadly they do not."


The band doesn't think that, you guys act as if they are pretending or arrogant. They know their time is short. How do you know how they think or act anyway?


plexi


________________________________________


Was meaning from a recording stand point. Their perspective on the studio front. They keep talking about an album but no sign of that ...

They know their touring days are limited. Seems that is why they are squeezing touring in whenever they can. Their focus is on touring .. no putting out this
album (or albums over the last ten years).


No sign? Latest reports about Charlie missing the US tour also mention that the album will be out next year "right in time for their 60th Anniversary celebrations".

I've been saying that for years... but you never believed me!


____________________________________________



I can't consider that a real sign ... No way.
The album was suppossed to be out in 2017 ..2018 ...2019 .. Here were are in 2021 and some article said next year .. Lol



Even if Mick himself said they are going in the studio to finish the album in December that may be a sign in other eras .. not this one.

There have been blurbs about the album coming out for years now. Lots of talk ..even from them .. no definite date or even projected season .. and no idea how far along they are. Is studio time booked for after the tour? That Miiiight be a sign .. but who knows. They have to take one step at a time anymore. The problem is that step is never finishing said album and releasing it.

I / We can post all kinds of articles saying the album is slated for next year .. from 2017 ...18...19... etc etc.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 06:04 by IanBillen.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: August 8, 2021 06:39

Hopefully my understanding of their deal with UMe will sum this up:

We, UMe, get to do whatever, but by the way, ABCDEFG etc EXILE, SOME GIRLS, STICKY FINGERS, GOATS HEAD SOUP and soon... TATTOO YOU.

Oh. If y'all want to do a new album, do it.


BLUE AND LONESOME came out.

Living In A Ghost Town came out.

Meanwhile, for the last how many years, the Stones have been doing the NO FILTER tours... with absolutely zero meaning behind the name of the tour and, in the midst of it, I guess, not the Stones but UMe, a completely worthless hits compilation...

Does anyone ever consider how easy it is for The Rolling Stones to say they care about their fans... and just go on tour?

Steve Jordan will be The Rolling Stones drummer for 2021.

Charlie asked him to be.

He's a fantastic drummer and, of all people, perfect for the job. No one else could fill that drum seat.

If the New Orleans Jazz And Heritage Festival is not cancelled, for which I have tickets for, I will give a detailed account of the show and how Steve Jordan fits in/etc as... a Rolling Stone.

Until then, listen to the Keith's three LPs etc... and wait until the 2021 NO FILTER tour is underway and going to cast judgement.

I think people will be amazed or stunned. Some without even realizing it.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: August 8, 2021 07:04

Quote
Rocktiludrop
Given that this was Charlies decision and that he discussed it with Mick and Keith, is anyone other than me willing to admit that this might be for the best, I've noticed Charlie has been struggling to keep pace for a few tours now, The Stones have been playing the songs too slow, it's like the Elephant in the room, it's ok to say Keith is past it or Mick's voice isn't so good but no one dare admit Charlie is not what he once was, I'd go so far as to say he's slightly over rated as a drummer these days, don't get me wrong this isn't personal , of course everyone loves Charlie and he is so loyal to the Stones and it will seem weird without him, but he's not dead, he has given his blessing and I'm sure he appreciates Steve helping the band out to fulfill these long awaited tour dates.
The point I'm making is that this is an exciting prospect when you get passed Charlie not touring this time round, this might bring some lost energy and pace that the Stones have been lacking since as far back as 2005' 06', this could actually 're-ignite' Keith, and let's be honest everything about the sound of the Stones is down to Keith and can this old Lion roar again.
I'm sorry if some find this attitude insensitive, but remember this post in a few months time and see if i was right.

I saw the Stones in New Orleans in 2019 and, with exception to, say Dandelion, off the top of my head - there may be a few others - the understanding of playing live in regard to what a drummer does can determine the song... but not outright.

Keith slaughtered the entire intro of Gimme Shelter in New Orleans. As I recall all but one of the musicians went off the understanding of the beat of... Charlie... because of Ronnie.

It was the only screwup of the night that I can recall.




Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: IanBillen ()
Date: August 8, 2021 07:16

Quote
retired_dog
Quote
IanBillen
I would not want Charlie Watts back unless he is all well and given the all clear.


However .. Me thinks he might only miss 1/2 of the tour .. (<< all speculation ..
however there is kina/ sort of a little reading between the lines that might indicate that is a possibility).

Jus sayin.

Rejoining without any rehearsals after more than two years stage absence? Totally unrealistic imo.

______________________________________________



Like a fool I was thinking the rehearsals for him would be pushed back a month or more. I FORGOT .. the rest of the band would have to be there too with him for that. Lol My bad. I was just thinking he will rehearse a month or so later and possibly join up mid way .. (I overlooked he has to rehearse with the band themselves ..not just anyone).

However still ... RollingStone magazine stated both scenarios .. It read that he will miss 'part' of the upcoming tour (as well as 'the tour')? .. Which is why I thought perhaps he will rejoin late after starting a month or six weeks behind with a few weeks of rehearsel under his belt.

If he recovered .. and was physically able and all clear to start drumming again ... with three good weeks of rehearsel I am sure he could pull it off .. But the rest of the band would need be there rehearsing with him .. (which would be impossible.. you are right. I forgot about that).

Still wonder why it is saying he will join the band on stage later in the year and why Rollingstone magazine says he wil miss 'part' of the upcoming tour under his picture.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 07:23 by IanBillen.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: August 8, 2021 07:38

Quote
IanBillen
Quote
retired_dog
Quote
IanBillen
I would not want Charlie Watts back unless he is all well and given the all clear.


However .. Me thinks he might only miss 1/2 of the tour .. (<< all speculation ..
however there is kina/ sort of a little reading between the lines that might indicate that is a possibility).

Jus sayin.

Rejoining without any rehearsals after more than two years stage absence? Totally unrealistic imo.

______________________________________________



Like a fool I was thinking the rehearsals for him would be pushed back a month or more. I FORGOT .. the rest of the band would have to be there too with him for that. Lol My bad. I was just thinking he will rehearse a month or so later and possibly join up mid way .. (I overlooked he has to rehearse with the band themselves ..not just anyone).

However still ... RollingStone magazine stated both scenarios .. It read that he will miss 'part' of the upcoming tour (as well as 'the tour')? .. Which is why I thought perhaps he will rejoin late after starting a month or six weeks behind with a few weeks of rehearsel under his belt.

If he recovered .. and was physically able and all clear to start drumming again ... with three good weeks of rehearsel I am sure he could pull it off .. But the rest of the band would need be there rehearsing with him .. (which would be impossible.. you are right. I forgot about that).

Still wonder why it is saying he will join the band on stage later in the year and why Rollingstone magazine says he wil miss 'part' of the upcoming tour under his picture.

The No Filter Tour has been going since 2017 so Charlie will miss only part of it (i.e. the 4th leg in the US)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 08:09 by TornAndFried.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: cyclist ()
Date: August 8, 2021 08:07

Quote
GasLightStreet
Keith slaughtered the entire intro of Gimme Shelter in New Orleans. As I recall all but one of the musicians went off the understanding of the beat of... Charlie... because of Ronnie.

It was the only screwup of the night that I can recall.



I don't understand. Ronnie lead Keith into the mistake?

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: FancyBluesMan ()
Date: August 8, 2021 08:34

In looking at the photo of Charlie and wife Shirley...taken in May 2020...that's posted in the 'Charlie Adopts Greyhound' thread, that's the most frail I've seen him in recent years. Granted, it may not be the most flattering shot, but I can't help but feel concern for his current health status and how serious this mystery ailment might be.

With no definitive insight...heart-related, cancer issue, etc...it's unfair to speculate, but we've gotten to the point where, at best, an abbreviated 'tour' may be the only thing in the offing, IF Charlie recovers and is capable of returning to his perch.

Press releases are always going to paint an optimistic picture; look no further than Dusty Hill's situation. It was stated that he was going to leave the tour for a bit for some rehabilitative hip therapy and then rejoin Billy and Frank. Unfortunately, he never returned. Totally unexpected, for sure, but you can never tell which direction medically-related issues may turn.

Hopefully, Charlie makes a full recovery. I want to see him back behind the drum kit as much as, if not more, than anyone. However, keep this in mind: it's not beyond the realm of possibility that, a couple of months from now, Charlie assesses his situation and decides he's done with touring, regardless of what the rest of the band chooses to do.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Carnaby ()
Date: August 8, 2021 08:48

I might have gone with Kenney Jones, but all right.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: MingSubu ()
Date: August 8, 2021 09:07

How important are rehearsals? I know they have their rehearsals before every tour, but it's basically the same songs for the past x amount of years. You don't think he could just drop in? Sure some warming up, but I think he'd be able to do it.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Date: August 8, 2021 10:19

Quote
FancyBluesMan
In looking at the photo of Charlie and wife Shirley...taken in May 2020...that's posted in the 'Charlie Adopts Greyhound' thread, that's the most frail I've seen him in recent years. Granted, it may not be the most flattering shot, but I can't help but feel concern for his current health status and how serious this mystery ailment might be.

With no definitive insight...heart-related, cancer issue, etc...it's unfair to speculate, but we've gotten to the point where, at best, an abbreviated 'tour' may be the only thing in the offing, IF Charlie recovers and is capable of returning to his perch.

Press releases are always going to paint an optimistic picture; look no further than Dusty Hill's situation. It was stated that he was going to leave the tour for a bit for some rehabilitative hip therapy and then rejoin Billy and Frank. Unfortunately, he never returned. Totally unexpected, for sure, but you can never tell which direction medically-related issues may turn.

Hopefully, Charlie makes a full recovery. I want to see him back behind the drum kit as much as, if not more, than anyone. However, keep this in mind: it's not beyond the realm of possibility that, a couple of months from now, Charlie assesses his situation and decides he's done with touring, regardless of what the rest of the band chooses to do.

That's unfortunately right, I also looked at that photo. And if it happens, that's OK. All the best to Charlie!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 10:19 by jumpingjackflash5.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: TornAndFried ()
Date: August 8, 2021 10:22

Quote
MingSubu
How important are rehearsals? I know they have their rehearsals before every tour, but it's basically the same songs for the past x amount of years. You don't think he could just drop in? Sure some warming up, but I think he'd be able to do it.

Charlie COULD do it...but in all likelihood he won't. They have a week off in the middle of the tour so theoretically they could do a few rehearsals with him and finish the rest of the shows but if he's committed to resting and recuperating after his surgery, that is what he is gonna do. It's only 14 shows. If his health allows he will be back on stage next year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-08 18:11 by TornAndFried.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Date: August 8, 2021 10:30

Right. It is also worth noting, that the current press releases are done according to business contracts. If there is a thoeretical possibility that Charlie can join during autumn, they must not neglect it at this stage.

We shall be very lucky if we see Charlie with the Stones next year for sixtieth anniversary and last new album release.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: MingSubu ()
Date: August 8, 2021 10:49

Quote
TornAndFried
Quote
MingSubu
How important are rehearsals? I know they have their rehearsals before every tour, but it's basically the same songs for the past x amount of years. You don't think he could just drop in? Sure some warming up, but I think he'd be able to do it.

Charlie COULD do it but he won't. They have a week off in the middle of the tour so theoretically they could do a few rehearsals with him and finish the rest of the shows but if he's committed to resting and recuperating after his surgery, that is what he is gonna do. It's only 14 shows. If his health allows he will be back on stage next year.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: MingSubu ()
Date: August 8, 2021 10:50

Quote
TornAndFried
Quote
MingSubu
How important are rehearsals? I know they have their rehearsals before every tour, but it's basically the same songs for the past x amount of years. You don't think he could just drop in? Sure some warming up, but I think he'd be able to do it.

Charlie COULD do it but he won't. They have a week off in the middle of the tour so theoretically they could do a few rehearsals with him and finish the rest of the shows but if he's committed to resting and recuperating after his surgery, that is what he is gonna do. It's only 14 shows. If his health allows he will be back on stage next year.

I'm not saying to come back before he is all healed up.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: August 8, 2021 10:59

Quote
TornAndFried


Charlie COULD do it but he won't. They have a week off in the middle of the tour so theoretically they could do a few rehearsals with him and finish the rest of the shows but if he's committed to resting and recuperating after his surgery, that is what he is gonna do.

Or he could join the tour mid-way play a few songs each night get a roaring wave of acclaim, wave the crowd, retreat backstage and let Jordan play the bulk of the setlist?

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