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Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Date: August 5, 2021 16:53

Just a bad omen for this tour in many respects.
Glad I'm taking a pass this time...

Mike


[www.flickr.com]

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Date: August 5, 2021 16:54

Quote
dcba
Quote
Roadster32

I can't say. Never heard him on drums to a Stones song so far.

You never listened to "Dirty Work"? Jordan is all over that one!

If one track is being "all over"...

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Date: August 5, 2021 16:56

Quote
rbk
It’ll be interesting to see how Steve Jordan gets along with Chuck Leavell. Both are, discretely, the “musical directors” of the Winos/solo Keith and the Stones, respectively.

Just watch Hail, Hail Rock'n'Roll!

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Date: August 5, 2021 16:58

Quote
spoonful2
Quote
floodonthepage
A couple things seem clear to me...

1. Charlie wants this, according to the RS article. It sounds like HE asked Steve to do this, which makes a different for me.

2. The fact that theses shows are going forward doesn't (for me) mean that Keith or anyone else still doesn't feel the "No Charlie, No Stones" phrase. It means that the pandemic/contracts/insurers have them "in a spot", a spot that includes the livelihood of many a crew member. Charlie and everyone in the band are helping those people in many ways by going forward, not the least of which financially.

Less clear to me is....

3. The door does seem open for Charlie to come back during the tour, if not later in this tour then down the road with whatever plans they have that we are not aware of...that said, those plans may not include anymore US dates, and with that in mind do I want my (possibly) last Stones show to be w/o Charlie or do I skip the tour...knowing that if I (and enough other people) do that it may in some fashion hurt the larger/extended Stones family (the crew, etc.). I work with someone now who worked on their crew for Licks, and I can imagine what it means to people like him that the "show goes on"....not to mention what if (pie in the sky) Charlie comes back mid-tour...to experience that would be outstanding.

Lastly and ultimately, I think if this truly were a "Charlie is out" scenario, as in done with touring or worse.....if he had passed...then the "No Charlie, No Stones" would take hold and the band would stop. I could be wrong about that (as was exampled by the Who with Entwistle which has been pointed out was likely a contractual jam as well) but I'd like to think I'm right about that.

Charlie did not ask Steve Jordan to play for him, that was Mick and Keith. He was the obvious choice anyway.

Most likely Keith and Ronnie's choice. Btw, do you have sources for this and the surgery-thing?

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Rokyfan ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:04

Quote
Big Al
I only know of Jordan's drumming with Keith. How is his style going to fit the Stones'? I suppose he will be studying Charlie's live technique and and will attempt to replicate it. Truthfully, I don't particularly like what I've heard from him.

I don't remember when it was, decades ago, that I realized all great rock bands had a great drummer with a distinctive sound. Same thing in jazz. This seems basic and indisputable.

What an insult to Charlie to say that it will make little difference to the sound with Jordan on the drums. The substitution of the drummer will have an effect on the music magnitudes greater than that of any other instrument, other than Jagger's voice.

Yet, Glimmer Girl, who (1) is an attorney, and (2) knows real insiders with real info, is undoubtedly correct that there are only two essential Stones for contractual purposes. Thus, they must play on. As she noted, they could refuse to go on without Charlie, but the result would be litigation.

I think the idea that Charlie is going to return is fantasy. He's not traveling to the US at his age in the covid era and I don't blame him, regardless of any surgery.

I agree with you, Al, I never liked Jordan's drumming with the Winos. It always seemed the opposite of Charlie's approach to the music.

Duke: it don't mean a thing if it ain't got . . . .

Sad.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: bye bye johnny ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:07

Quote
floodonthepage

The RS article indicated Charlie asked Steve. "I asked my great friend Steve....." something like that.

Prior to the official statement from the band - including Charlie's comments - all articles quoted The Sun.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: TooTough ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:09

I always thought that we don´t have to explain the importance
of Charlie as a drummer and for Stones´ sound on a Stones site.
Some are getting over these bad news very fast.

People who don´t have a problem with replacing Charlie
wouldn´t have a problem replacing Ronnie with...Waddy Wachtel?
Or Jimmy Rip?

This is not Dylan´s never ending tour with Matt Chamberlain
replacing George Recile on drums.

I think that we see the very last Stones chapter now. There´s
only a few pages left.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:11

I wonder if they'd replace Charlie if they hadn't already postponed the US tour several times (and I guess they're obliged by contract to do the US tour before they are allowed to do another tour)

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Date: August 5, 2021 17:14

Quote
TooTough
I always thought that we don´t have to explain the importance
of Charlie as a drummer and for Stones´ sound on a Stones site.
Some are getting over these bad news very fast.

People who don´t have a problem with replacing Charlie
wouldn´t have a problem replacing Ronnie with...Waddy Wachtel?
Or Jimmy Rip?

This is not Dylan´s never ending tour with Matt Chamberlain
replacing George Recile on drums.

I think that we see the very last Stones chapter now. There´s
only a few pages left.

It seems to be true. And for sure Charlie's drumming is essential to the Stones' sound and dynamics.
The Stones are a band, not McCartney or Dylan and their supergroups of musicians.
We can hope they manage this last chapter with decency.
That said, I understand the decision to do those planned shows.
And then rest, and ask Charlie if he wants to play again next year. If he does not, simply quit.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Date: August 5, 2021 17:15

Quote
slewan
I wonder if they'd replace Charlie if they hadn't already postponed the US tour several times (and I guess they're obliged by contract to do the US tour before they are allowed to do another tour)

Probably not it's exceptional situation.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Date: August 5, 2021 17:19

No Bill, no charlie....

I know, it's only rocknroll. But..


Well, have fun anyway, that's what it's about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-05 17:22 by emotionalbarbecue.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:22

Quote
Topi
Quote
Maindefender
Another chapter. 60 years, we have been so fortunate. Rumour is the band will be back in the states next year. Healing vibes to Mr. Watts

Back in the States next year? Where did you hear that?

Thought I heard it somewhere. I wasn't planning on seeing them this Fall. Once again get well Charlie...thumbs up

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:24

If Bill was replaceable then are Charlie and Ron. Basically this is what happens when you don't know when to stop. There is no such thing as a never ending tour.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Sighunt ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:28

Quote
Rokyfan
Quote
Big Al
I only know of Jordan's drumming with Keith. How is his style going to fit the Stones'? I suppose he will be studying Charlie's live technique and and will attempt to replicate it. Truthfully, I don't particularly like what I've heard from him.

I don't remember when it was, decades ago, that I realized all great rock bands had a great drummer with a distinctive sound. Same thing in jazz. This seems basic and indisputable.

What an insult to Charlie to say that it will make little difference to the sound with Jordan on the drums. The substitution of the drummer will have an effect on the music magnitudes greater than that of any other instrument, other than Jagger's voice.

Yet, Glimmer Girl, who (1) is an attorney, and (2) knows real insiders with real info, is undoubtedly correct that there are only two essential Stones for contractual purposes. Thus, they must play on. As she noted, they could refuse to go on without Charlie, but the result would be litigation.

I think the idea that Charlie is going to return is fantasy. He's not traveling to the US at his age in the covid era and I don't blame him, regardless of any surgery.

I agree with you, Al, I never liked Jordan's drumming with the Winos. It always seemed the opposite of Charlie's approach to the music.

Duke: it don't mean a thing if it ain't got . . . .

Sad.

Regarding your thoughts about Charlie, I would also be very surprised (given his health and age-AND continued COVID concerns in the US) if he were to return and play any American dates...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-05 17:34 by Sighunt.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Roll73 ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:34

Quote
Big Al
I only know of Jordan's drumming with Keith. How is his style going to fit the Stones'? I suppose he will be studying Charlie's live technique and and will attempt to replicate it. Truthfully, I don't particularly like what I've heard from him.

Steve Jordan is a fantastic drummer who swings like crazy, No it won't be Charlie - and won't sound like the Stones we know and love. But it will still be great. Like everyone else on here I'm rooting for Charlie's recovery - but I personally think the Stones with Steve Jordan will kick arse.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: saltoftheearth ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:39

If they invited Mick Taylor and made him part of the band they would still have four original members on stage.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: clapton71 ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:40

Not going to be a Stones show without the engine behind the drums. Lets be honest. He is 80 years old. I do believe this is a sign of things to come. It amazes me how fast they found Steve to replace him. So this will be the 2021 version of The Who( '82 tour). 3/4 on the stage. Oh wait. Guns 'n' Roses doing the same thing too. Happy to have seen them back in '19.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: WorriedAboutYou ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:42

"Music of The Rolling Stones performed by Chuck Leavell, Mick Jagger and friends"

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Date: August 5, 2021 17:42

Yes the shows can be very good musically, but not the same as with Charlie.
Then Charlie either can and wants to play again next year, or it is finished.
That's the reality.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: spoonful2 ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:48

Quote
MisterDDDD
Quote
spoonful2
There was no "emergency surgery", I knew about this 9 days ago. Don't rule out him jumping back on the tour at some point, but don't be surprised if he doesn't.

Nowhere does it state or imply that the emergency surgery happened in the last few days.
Clearly, others have known, - but to say "there was no emergency surgery" unless you have more info than your posting, doesn't ring true.

It was reported as emergency surgery but from what is now released a procedure and his doctors this week decided he needed proper rest. They knew all of this at least 2 weeks ago, I'm sure they wanted to wait and see if things changed before anything was announced...and get the whole tour announced. But to say that it's fair to say no one saw this coming isn't exactly forth coming. They did see it coming weeks ago, though of course no one saw this coming before that.


"Charlie has had a procedure which was completely successful, but his doctors this week concluded that he now needs proper rest and recuperation," the statement read. "With rehearsals starting in a couple of weeks it's very disappointing to say the least, but it's also fair to say no one saw this coming."

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:48

I'm pretty sure these gigs will be the last ones. They are now down to 3/5 (0r 3/6 if you count Stu). I don't know if that is a reason to go and see them one more time or not though.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: spoonful2 ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:49

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
spoonful2
Quote
floodonthepage
A couple things seem clear to me...

1. Charlie wants this, according to the RS article. It sounds like HE asked Steve to do this, which makes a different for me.

2. The fact that theses shows are going forward doesn't (for me) mean that Keith or anyone else still doesn't feel the "No Charlie, No Stones" phrase. It means that the pandemic/contracts/insurers have them "in a spot", a spot that includes the livelihood of many a crew member. Charlie and everyone in the band are helping those people in many ways by going forward, not the least of which financially.

Less clear to me is....

3. The door does seem open for Charlie to come back during the tour, if not later in this tour then down the road with whatever plans they have that we are not aware of...that said, those plans may not include anymore US dates, and with that in mind do I want my (possibly) last Stones show to be w/o Charlie or do I skip the tour...knowing that if I (and enough other people) do that it may in some fashion hurt the larger/extended Stones family (the crew, etc.). I work with someone now who worked on their crew for Licks, and I can imagine what it means to people like him that the "show goes on"....not to mention what if (pie in the sky) Charlie comes back mid-tour...to experience that would be outstanding.

Lastly and ultimately, I think if this truly were a "Charlie is out" scenario, as in done with touring or worse.....if he had passed...then the "No Charlie, No Stones" would take hold and the band would stop. I could be wrong about that (as was exampled by the Who with Entwistle which has been pointed out was likely a contractual jam as well) but I'd like to think I'm right about that.

Charlie did not ask Steve Jordan to play for him, that was Mick and Keith. He was the obvious choice anyway.

Most likely Keith and Ronnie's choice. Btw, do you have sources for this and the surgery-thing?

Yes I do...but not here.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: roryfaninva ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:50

I'd wager Steve Jordan was already discreetly identified as a contingency before the tour even started. With an 80 year old cancer survivor anchoring a multi multi million dollar tour , the contracts probably mandated it. An ailing Charlie Watts wasnt cold calling anyone from a hospital bed, regardless of how its framed in the PR/media. The show must go on.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Date: August 5, 2021 17:54

Quote
saltoftheearth
If they invited Mick Taylor and made him part of the band they would still have four original members on stage.

Mick Taylor is not an original member. He replaced Brian Jones.
Funny to see now that the Stones have a black rhythm section.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: georgelicks ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:56

Sadly it's only business and insurance today, no more artistic integrity, the cost of not doing the tour is worse, a big lawsuit of many years against them, a time loss, time that they don't have now.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: August 5, 2021 17:56

Get well Charlie

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Date: August 5, 2021 18:03

Yes business reasons behind all this.
We can take it as a bonus to their great great career, to hear Mick, Keith and Ron in this lineup.
Then, if Charlie cannot perform anymore, they can decide either to continue and harm their legacy, or simply say we did all we could, thank you very much. i prefer the latter.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: franzk ()
Date: August 5, 2021 18:04

Quote
TooTough

I think that we see the very last Stones chapter now. There´s
only a few pages left.

I couldn't count how many I've read this sentence on this board since 2002.

However we must accept that at this age things happen. Charlie's surgery, Mick's surgery, Ronnie's two battles with cancer. It all happened recently. They're around 80. It's inevitable.

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Posted by: ErwinH ()
Date: August 5, 2021 18:04

For me... no Charlie, no Stones...

I also miss Bill.
Probaby bassplayers here couldn't imagine the Stones without Bill,
but it happened.

But the Rolling Stones without Charlie? nah...
ow, we will see what that's like soon.

People who like drumsolo's...
you might be lucky to see one this tour cool smiley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fqwmdqyyKw

Re: Charlie Watts pulls out of US tour after undergoing emergency surgery
Date: August 5, 2021 18:05

Quote
franzk
Quote
TooTough

I think that we see the very last Stones chapter now. There´s
only a few pages left.

I couldn't count how many I've read this sentence on this board since 2002.

However we must accept that at this age things happen. Charlie's surgery, Mick's surgery, Ronnie's two battles with cancer. It all happened recently. They're around 80. It's inevitable.

In the past it was based just on signs and thoughts. This time is seems to be the reality.

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