Or, are you not into bass player's?

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

go slow and get 'em all, i always say. :E
i believe i've made it abundantly clear where my focus is, but far be it from me to stand in the way of a solid bass thread!
here's a shot from november 66 to start you off ...


- Ruby Tuesday sessions, november 1966, by Tom Keylock (courtesy of BrownEyedGirll)

okay sorry - maybe that's not *quite* what you had in mind ...
i do consider that a 100% beautiful and amazing moment in Stones History, though!
i mean those cats just would not be stopped - not by anything, including "this track is pining for a bowed bass, but none of us knows how to play it".
... hail hail Rolling Stones, huh?!

ahem: Bill's more usual instruments ... were actually also not that usual.
in these first shots, is that that job he bought for eight pounds and then renovated into something that sounded way better than it had any right to?


- 1962 (don't know who took it, sorry!)


- the Crawdaddy Club 1963 (probably april) by Bill Williams

and what, pray tell, has he got here in this next one?


- 1963 (courtesy of the Keno site)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-31 20:16 by with sssoul.

a framus or hofner bass

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Oh, give me the beat, boys, and free my soul
I wanna get lost in your rock and roll and drift away

I´d say it´s a Framus.

Vilhelm
Nordic Stones Vikings

yes it´s a framus star bass

-----------------------------------------------------
Oh, give me the beat, boys, and free my soul
I wanna get lost in your rock and roll and drift away

right - here's a clearer shot of it:


- Ready Steady Go 1964, by Dezo Hoffman (courtesy of Vox12String)

the next one Bill turns up with, at least in the photos i have, is this one:


- Ready Steady Go 1965 (courtesy of the Keno site)


- the Ed Sullivan Show, february 13th 1966

there are also some really nice shots of it in Stockholm 65 on the StonesVikings' great site:
[www.stonesvikings.com]

... so what's he got in Stockholm 66??
[www.stonesvikings.com]

The small bass is his homemade short-scale bass, one of the first fretless electri basses. The Framus basses (both the large and small one) are both Framus Star basses. Bill's original Star bass is now in a collection:

[www.fetishguitars.com]

Bill was endorsed by Framus from 1964 until 1967.

Mathijs

thx to mathjis the godfather of guitar knowledge :-)

-----------------------------------------------------
Oh, give me the beat, boys, and free my soul
I wanna get lost in your rock and roll and drift away

thank you kindly, Mathijs, for the information and for that site too.
it's cool to see that instrument so close-up like that - very pretty!
have some popcorn. :E

Er, it doesn't _look_ fretless. Were the frets removed?

cc

He took the frets out when he first stripped it and repainted it, before he joined the Stones. Bill's basses are easy to trace. After the Framus, it was Vox (the Wyman bass plus a few others),then the Fender Mustang, then the clear Dan Armstrong, then the Gibson SG bass(horrible sound), the the brown Dan Armstrong with a sliding pickup (great sound),then the custom-made Travis Bean (even better sound), then the Steinberger (good lord). For Steel Wheels, who cares? These are the main ones for live work.
He claims he used his homemade fretless for most recordings (not all) up until
Some Girls where he used the Travis Bean for all tracks.

Yes, i found that Vox, Wyman bass here [www.fetishguitars.com] following Mathjis cool link.
thanx man.

Any pictures of Keith / Mick Taylor / Ronnie playing bass?

This must be the the brown Dan Armstrong with a sliding pickup (great sound)

Frankfurt'76

What I like most about Wyman is that he has such an unique sound. Due to Wyman's size (midget that is), he only plays short scale basses (meaning the strings are 30" long, instead of 34"), and he only uses flat wound strings. Therefore, Wyman has always sounded very much like an upright bass, very boxy, boomy and with very short sustain. Almost all other bassist use long scale basses, and most even Fender precision and Jazzbasses, but they all sound the sound. These basses sound fat, funcky, elegant and slick -but that's not the true Stones sound! Aside from the fact that I don't think Darryl Jones' style fits the Stones (he way to "correct" for the Stones, why they choose him instead of a dozen other greta players like Pino Pallidino), I never liked Darryls funkcy sound. It's too modern and slick.

Personally I liked Wymans sound with the Travis Bean best. The entire Some Girls album and the 1981 tour (listen to Hampton!) are just encredible. Wood and Richards used a TB2000 bass in 1975 first, and then Wyman had several TB basses built for him in 1977, all short-scale, one of them fretless and at least one with Imron coating on the back of the neck wich he used on the 1981 tour. Some basses can be traced by the way: number 749 was sold to an American player who still has it, the fretless one can be seen in his restaurant, and one bass is now property of the hardrock cafe. Known serial numbers of TB basses built for Wyman are 749, 893 and 894.

Mathijs

Wyman's playing in 78 and 81 was off the charts. He was just incredible. Where it came from I won't know. It is almost a shame that there are so many occasions where he was not around in the studio. But somehow Wyman always made up for it. Either with other instruments, or by making the song his own on stage later on. Or when Keith played bass it was usually in a similar sloppy Stones style. I totally agree re. DJ not being right for the Stones. But we don't have to go there again; we all know that.
But I actually preferred Wyman's playing in 69 and 72 to 81. The sound and the style. I find that the TB even was too clean for Wyman. He was a little too audible IMO. I liked it when he played that little Fender or the Dan Armstrong. You talk about some mud. DESIGNER MUD! That contained rumble he's got going in Midnight Rambler or SFTD on Yay-Ya's is perfect. Wyman had this unique sound, that only McCartney has come close. Both come from UK, same period. But that's where it ends. Bill was all Blues, Soul and Country. Where I see similarities is their use of fourths and (in Bill's case) fifths. In earlier days Bill's fingers were positioned like many Bassists in the fifthhs position. That is like when you are playing an A on E string, your 4th finger will automatically rest on the E on the A string. Wyaman would also do octaves all the time. Paul played more lines. But it was their attitude towards the instrument , seeing it as a melodic instrument, as opposed to a strictly rhythm-slap box. I like Flea but he started a whole school of Bassists that coem out with these metal strings and wher notes don't matter; it;s allabout the slap effect.
Wyman was also unique in that he is by no means a jazzy player, yet he had this odd ear coupled with the rubbery, sliding effect that comes from the fretless neck on many of his basses.
Mathijs, you are an incredible source on everyhting regarding guitars. Hats oiff to you, anytime a thread comes around that demands your extensive knowledge.
(But please spell "funky" w/o a 'c' LOL)

Thanks Mathijs, want to add that the strings Bill plays are Rotosound flat wound custom made for Bill as he told me. Part of his unique sound is also his playing technique. His right hand plugging is done with the thumb and always right on the fretboard, that's why his sound is more upright to boomy. I asked him for what kind of songs he chooses to use a pic instead of the thumb. His practical answer: when the thumb hurts (showed me his thumb) then he take the pic.

Another part of the sound is the amp he plays. I don't know every different amp he played but mostly (and today) he played Ampeg (I guess that's why Darryl now also plays Ampeg, which changed his playing only marginal).

We also talked about Darryl, but that's something I don't wanna spread. Only one thing, Charlie didn't choose Darryl. That was a another one of our friends...

Oh mna, rknuth you can't dangle this carrot and not come through. "Another one of our friends" ???Got to be Jagger, no? Keith would have chosen someone better LOL
I remember Bill almost always playing with a pick. But obviously you know better. When did you talk with him? Was it lately? He looks like an old granny nowadays.

No need to start a new topic but now that we're in the so called 'rhythm section' part I've noticed that Charlie wasn't on Gretsch drum sets right on from the beginning.I've checked some of the pics above plus some more from Wyman's 'Rolling with the Stones' book (pages 65 & 71 from 1963 and page 162 from 1965 for example) with him playing on Ludwig sets. Don't know much about drum sets and drum 'sounds' but is there any remarkable difference between Ludwig and Gretsch sound? I can't tell actually.

From what I know re drumkits I have seen drummers go out of their way to use a Ludwig snare, regardless of the rest of the kit. Have never seen one seek out a Gretsch snare. So probably some difference there.

rknuth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> His right hand
> plugging is done with the thumb and always right
> on the fretboard,

Can you explain what that means? It's the left hand that's normally on the fretboard, for right-handed players. Do you mean like in the pictures above from Ready Steady Go and Ed Sullivan?

I'm sure it was keith who picked darryl. He loves to point out that darryl played with miles davis. I don't think keith really hears bass -- it's hardly in the mix on most stones studio records. When it is, keith's playing it!

cc

Photo caption reads.

The Stones' debut appearance on Rediffusion's 60-defining TV spectacular, Ready Steady Go!, August 28th. Note Bill's soon-to-be-retired homemade bass.

No photo credits listed.



ROCKMAN

wow awesome pic ,tanks 4 this rockman,my collection is bustin

Mmmmm....and in color to!



ROCKMAN

Gosh, that bass looks small even on him!

I still wouldn't call that "right on the fretboard."

Is he using a pick?

cc

Vox Wyman Bass 1967


Keith's Fender Precision bass?


Vox ??? 1968

Ok folks, what is the earliest pic of bill with A teardrop wyman bass? Do we know exactly when he was given one?

Just trying to see where this fits as I can't recall any pics of Bill with a wyman bass on stage or in the studio before summer 1966: [www.theage.com.au]

in all the photos i have of Bill on stage during the 66 Australian tour
(which isn't many) he's got the Framus. this seems to be the earliest one i have
where Bill seems to have that teardrop bass - that is the teardrop one, right?
the source where i found it had it dated may 1966:


- 1966? by Chris Walter



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-10 22:15 by with sssoul.

According to Bill's book "rolling With the stones" he had a deal with Framus in the early 60s. sure he got some good "perks"!(pardon the pun.)