Understand the concerns of course.
But, the latest data, including the Delta variant, proves statistically, one is in more danger, as it pertains to serious illness or death, traveling by car to get to the shows. Of course, things will change, and people need to take the precautions while traveling and attending, but the biggest precaution is getting fully vaxxed, and tested before you return home. Safe to assume all crew will be fully vaxxed.

This has (largely) become a (deadly) disease of the unvaxxed.

CNN)More than 99.99% of people fully vaccinated against Covid-19 have not had a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization or death, according to the latest data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The data highlights what leading health experts across the country have highlighted for months: Covid-19 vaccines are very effective at preventing serious illness and death from Covid-19 and are the country's best shot at slowing the pandemic down and avoiding further suffering.

The CDC reported 6,587 Covid-19 breakthrough cases as of July 26, including 6,239 hospitalizations and 1,263 deaths. At that time, more than 163 million people in the United States were fully vaccinated against Covid-19.

Divide those severe breakthrough cases by the total fully vaccinated population for the result: less than 0.004% of fully vaccinated people had a breakthrough case that led to hospitalization and less than 0.001% of fully vaccinated people died from a breakthrough Covid-19 case.
[www.cnn.com]

Quote
MisterDDDD
Understand the concerns of course.
But, the latest data, including the Delta variant, proves statistically, one is in more danger, as it pertains to serious illness or death, traveling by car to get to the shows. Of course, things will change, and people need to take the precautions while traveling and attending, but the biggest precaution is getting fully vaxxed, and tested before you return home. Safe to assume all crew will be fully vaxxed.

This has (largely) become a (deadly) disease of the unvaxxed.

CNN)More than 99.99% of people fully vaccinated against Covid-19 have not had a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization or death, according to the latest data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The data highlights what leading health experts across the country have highlighted for months: Covid-19 vaccines are very effective at preventing serious illness and death from Covid-19 and are the country's best shot at slowing the pandemic down and avoiding further suffering.

The CDC reported 6,587 Covid-19 breakthrough cases as of July 26, including 6,239 hospitalizations and 1,263 deaths. At that time, more than 163 million people in the United States were fully vaccinated against Covid-19.

Divide those severe breakthrough cases by the total fully vaccinated population for the result: less than 0.004% of fully vaccinated people had a breakthrough case that led to hospitalization and less than 0.001% of fully vaccinated people died from a breakthrough Covid-19 case.
[www.cnn.com]

Exactly, very well said. I have no concerns whatsoever about attending large concerts.

Quote
MisterDDDD
Understand the concerns of course.
But, the latest data, including the Delta variant, proves statistically, one is in more danger, as it pertains to serious illness or death, traveling by car to get to the shows. Of course, things will change, and people need to take the precautions while traveling and attending, but the biggest precaution is getting fully vaxxed, and tested before you return home. Safe to assume all crew will be fully vaxxed.

This has (largely) become a (deadly) disease of the unvaxxed.

CNN)More than 99.99% of people fully vaccinated against Covid-19 have not had a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization or death, according to the latest data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The data highlights what leading health experts across the country have highlighted for months: Covid-19 vaccines are very effective at preventing serious illness and death from Covid-19 and are the country's best shot at slowing the pandemic down and avoiding further suffering.

The CDC reported 6,587 Covid-19 breakthrough cases as of July 26, including 6,239 hospitalizations and 1,263 deaths. At that time, more than 163 million people in the United States were fully vaccinated against Covid-19.

Divide those severe breakthrough cases by the total fully vaccinated population for the result: less than 0.004% of fully vaccinated people had a breakthrough case that led to hospitalization and less than 0.001% of fully vaccinated people died from a breakthrough Covid-19 case.
[www.cnn.com]

OK, not wanting to split hairs here, however saying that 99.99% of fully vaccinated people have not had a breakthrough case that has led to hospitalization, is not the same as saying fully vaccinated AND EXPOSED to the virus.

So they're taking the grand total of vaccinated and comparing it to breakthroughs, rather than percentage of people that are double vaccinated that are exposed and hospitalized.

The vast majority of the double vaxxed probably haven't had that exposure, yet. I support all the steps taking to protect yourself and your community, but I just wish they would use statistics that are not misleading.

Maybe they don't have an accurate way to get the other stat, ok fine, but don't make it seem as though if you're double vaxxed, you have a 99.99% chance of a superb outcome. That isn't the real number.

Quote
treaclefingers

OK, not wanting to split hairs here, however saying that 99.99% of fully vaccinated people have not had a breakthrough case that has led to hospitalization, is not the same as saying fully vaccinated AND EXPOSED to the virus.

So they're taking the grand total of vaccinated and comparing it to breakthroughs, rather than percentage of people that are double vaccinated that are exposed and hospitalized.

The vast majority of the double vaxxed probably haven't had that exposure, yet. I support all the steps taking to protect yourself and your community, but I just wish they would use statistics that are not misleading.

Maybe they don't have an accurate way to get the other stat, ok fine, but don't make it seem as though if you're double vaxxed, you have a 99.99% chance of a superb outcome. That isn't the real number.

Fair point(s).

I would counter that the data average includes people working (and visiting) in very high exposure settings, which is a considerable amount of people when you take into account offices, grocery, retail, healthcare, etc etc etc.

The fact that they've not been exposed in large crowds, in outdoor settings, etc is a factor but not as large of one as you suggest imo.
Most of the data (most pre-variant granted) of large gatherings (Super Bowl, Baseball, concerts etc) have shown there to be very little spread afterwards, where it was widely expected to be a spreader event.

Requiring vaccine or testing proof (like Lollapalooza) would be a huge improvement to ease concerns and potential transmissions,
which may or may not be coming.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-04 23:12 by MisterDDDD.

Quote
Koen
I may feel save with my shots but I know I can still get the virus and spread it around. Especially in large crowds.

So are you saying the Jabs not one but two are not conclusive ?.
Why do you need a second Jab.?

I thought that the delta pandemic was a disease of the unvaccinated. That literally 99% of hospitalizations were unvaccinated.

So all those reluctant to go are unvaccinated?

Quote
MisterDDDD

Quote
treaclefingers

OK, not wanting to split hairs here, however saying that 99.99% of fully vaccinated people have not had a breakthrough case that has led to hospitalization, is not the same as saying fully vaccinated AND EXPOSED to the virus.

So they're taking the grand total of vaccinated and comparing it to breakthroughs, rather than percentage of people that are double vaccinated that are exposed and hospitalized.

The vast majority of the double vaxxed probably haven't had that exposure, yet. I support all the steps taking to protect yourself and your community, but I just wish they would use statistics that are not misleading.

Maybe they don't have an accurate way to get the other stat, ok fine, but don't make it seem as though if you're double vaxxed, you have a 99.99% chance of a superb outcome. That isn't the real number.

Fair point(s).

I would counter that the data average includes people working (and visiting) in very high exposure settings, which is a considerable amount of people when you take into account offices, grocery, retail, healthcare, etc etc etc.

The fact that they've not been exposed in large crowds, in outdoor settings, etc is a factor but not as large of one as you suggest imo.
Most of the data (most pre-variant granted) of large gatherings (Super Bowl, Baseball, concerts etc) have shown there to be very little spread afterwards, where it was widely expected to be a spreader event.

Requiring vaccine or testing proof (like Lollapalooza) would be a huge improvement to ease concerns and potential transmissions,
which may or may not be coming.

The mere fact that we're having to try and interpret what the actual data is measuring is my point. You could be totally right, or part right, or whatever. In the view of all the garbage that the naysayers are spewing, giving the accurate stats is important to credibility. And if you (I mean "they" here) don't know, that is fine by me, and more credible than creating inaccurate stats simply to support your case.

Maybe the actual breakthrough rate is 1%, or 5%? We probably don't know for sure. We just know that there is excellent protection even if you get the breakthrough happening.

This thread will be merged into the COVID-19 thread soon, as this is all about understanding COVID-19.

Bjornulf

So if you have not been vaccinated against this latest virus are you saying you cant attend a Stones concert? I have had the Flu which had a greater mortality and attended some of the greatest shows ever.

Quote
treaclefingers

The mere fact that we're having to try and interpret what the actual data is measuring is my point. You could be totally right, or part right, or whatever. In the view of all the garbage that the naysayers are spewing, giving the accurate stats is important to credibility. And if you (I mean "they" here) don't know, that is fine by me, and more credible than creating inaccurate stats simply to support your case.

Maybe the actual breakthrough rate is 1%, or 5%? We probably don't know for sure. We just know that there is excellent protection even if you get the breakthrough happening.

Not on my end..
The mere fact that we're having this conversation is because you take issue with the CDC data.
I don't.

I completely understand it, especially from someone from Canada, or anyone outside of the country. We have f-vcked this pandemic up at nearly every turn. But I don't agree, at this stage of the pandemic, the DATA is false or manipulated.

Not because I believe everything the CDC puts out (I have acknowledged the mistakes and miscalculations) But- the data is solid. Scientific data is scientific data. How the data was mined is open for discussion, but clearly it spanned a wide spectrum of people and situations.

Quote
Rokyfan
I thought that the delta pandemic was a disease of the unvaccinated. That literally 99% of hospitalizations were unvaccinated.

So all those reluctant to go are unvaccinated?

No. I am vaccinated and would be reluctant to go because of the unvaccinated. Not only are the unvaccinated irresponsible toward getting the shot, they are just as likely not to wear a mask either. It would be simple if the unvaccinated wore a mask to let us all know who they are, but no, they have to screw that up for everyone too.

Yes, I might have mild symptoms. I might not require hospitalization, or most likely wouldn't die. The problem is the virus itself. Many long haulers had no symptoms. Yet, long term, they are struggling with devastating side effects from the virus. I don't want those either. Plus, having had cancer a few years back, I might be more susceptible.

I was considering a trip to my hometown. Two of my closest friends refuse to get vaccinated. I could carry the disease, have no harm, but give it to them and kill them.

Quote
Woz

Quote
MisterDDDD
Understand the concerns of course.
But, the latest data, including the Delta variant, proves statistically, one is in more danger, as it pertains to serious illness or death, traveling by car to get to the shows. Of course, things will change, and people need to take the precautions while traveling and attending, but the biggest precaution is getting fully vaxxed, and tested before you return home. Safe to assume all crew will be fully vaxxed.

This has (largely) become a (deadly) disease of the unvaxxed.

CNN)More than 99.99% of people fully vaccinated against Covid-19 have not had a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization or death, according to the latest data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The data highlights what leading health experts across the country have highlighted for months: Covid-19 vaccines are very effective at preventing serious illness and death from Covid-19 and are the country's best shot at slowing the pandemic down and avoiding further suffering.

The CDC reported 6,587 Covid-19 breakthrough cases as of July 26, including 6,239 hospitalizations and 1,263 deaths. At that time, more than 163 million people in the United States were fully vaccinated against Covid-19.

Divide those severe breakthrough cases by the total fully vaccinated population for the result: less than 0.004% of fully vaccinated people had a breakthrough case that led to hospitalization and less than 0.001% of fully vaccinated people died from a breakthrough Covid-19 case.
[www.cnn.com]

Exactly, very well said. I have no concerns whatsoever about attending large concerts.

I've been going places all along (wearing masks, of course, in times that they were mandatory). I would have no concerns, I have already been to a couple of shows -- my issue is i don't see the Stones anymore due to same old-same old, i.e. war-horses.

Quote
Tonstone
So if you have not been vaccinated against this latest virus are you saying you cant attend a Stones concert? I have had the Flu which had a greater mortality and attended some of the greatest shows ever.

Wait, Flu hasn’t had a greater mortality than Covid.

Quote

Since December 2019, COVID-19 has killed more people in the U.S. than influenza has in the last five years.

Influenza is a significant burden on the population, but COVID-19 has had a vastly larger effect.

[www.jhsph.edu]

No l won't feel safe too many idiots not getting the vaccine.......

"No dope smoking no beer sold after 12 o'clock"

I have to admit I am a bit uneasy about going, but I have trust in my vaccinations, so I am going. However, I am not looking forward to quarantine after the shows until I can get tested. I take care of my 91 year old parents and I do not want to risk giving them COVID. They are vaccinated, as am I, but the vaccines are not 100%, so I will be self-quarantining after the concerts.

The big problem with these concerts is the inability to social distance. It will be impossible to be 6 feet away from others (whether in seats or in the pit) and everyone around you will be yelling and screaming and singing at the top of their lungs. Let us hope and pray that everyone there is either vaxxed or has tested negative because any COVID that’s there will get spread around.

I have been super careful for the past 18 months. I have tickets to see Buddy Guy in September at the Belly Up, a small, crowded indoor venue. These concerts will be my first reckless activities. Fingers crossed we all stay safe.

Quote
JadedFaded
I have to admit I am a bit uneasy about going, but I have trust in my vaccinations, so I am going. However, I am not looking forward to quarantine after the shows until I can get tested. I take care of my 91 year old parents and I do not want to risk giving them COVID. They are vaccinated, as am I, but the vaccines are not 100%, so I will be self-quarantining after the concerts.

The big problem with these concerts is the inability to social distance. It will be impossible to be 6 feet away from others (whether in seats or in the pit) and everyone around you will be yelling and screaming and singing at the top of their lungs. Let us hope and pray that everyone there is either vaxxed or has tested negative because any COVID that’s there will get spread around.

I have been super careful for the past 18 months. I have tickets to see Buddy Guy in September at the Belly Up, a small, crowded indoor venue. These concerts will be my first reckless activities. Fingers crossed we all stay safe.

If you would test positive. Who would watch your folks? Why risk it?

A longer quarantine if I test positive. It may be a stupid risk, but I have never been rational when it comes to the Stones, and since I can’t do Europe in 2022, this may well be my last time seeing the musical loves of my life. I may skip Buddy Guy depending on how delta is doing in September. There is still time before LA and Vegas for me to change my mind if everything goes south in the interim.

Quote
mickschix
To ignore the impact of Covid, and especially the new Delta variant is beyond foolish...honestly, I agree with the person who said NO SHOW is worth risking getting that sick & injuring your lungs and who knows what else permanently. I pointed out in another thread that Vegas is LOADED with Delta/Covid...I worry that if these shows go on, some member of the crew/roadies will catch Covid and spread it throughout the entire entourage, band members included. With Ronnie having a very compromised immune syatem because of his Chemo, this is very scary. This new variant is extremely contageous...ten times more so than the common cold/flu. Whoever planned this tour must have done so way before the re-emergence of Covid in the USA....I wonder what they're thinking now. Roadies are hired in each city..how safe are these guys, out to make a fast buck. Will they be thoroughly tested before being hired? As Rustytrinket86 said, " fully vaxxed" means nothing! WITNESS realizes that these shows can be " super-spreaders"...yup...because you KNOW there will be unvaxxed folks there NOT wearing masks! They will take the " Devil May Care" attitude thus endangering many others. I will sit this one out, no regrets.

I agree very much with your assessment. This will be the first tour since 1969 I will not be at any concerts. I also have no desire to sit back for 2 plus hours with a mask on at any large events such as concerts, sporting events, where proof of vaccination, or proof of negative testing is not required. Covid variants have really changed the situation for me.

Quote
GasLightStreet
If Jazz Fest gets cancelled... money back.

All of it?

No as this flies in the face of common sense and protecting ones life during a worldwide pandemic . Looking at the tour map a lot of the stops are in States with lax regulations if any .For example Florida where Governor Disantis banned masking regulations . Notice there are no NY shows where Buffalo was on the original schedule . I think concert planners and promoters are seeking the least amount of governmental resistance in there path forward to purse there bucks $ . Greed reigns supreme !

I am concerned for the stones. They are in their late 70s. Half of the New York Yankees have gotten COVID. I have gone to a few museums with masks on the last couple of months. I am not ready to sit for 3 hours in one place packed with lots of people.

I changed the headline of this thread from "this summer" into "this year", because the tour is not until late september, which is fall time rather than summer.

Safety is always relative. I was in USA three months in the summer of 2019, following the Stones tour then. I felt safe, but there were scooters all over, so I had to watch my back at all times. Dangerous days! I survived, but as I went home from the tour, same week actually, I took my own bike to the store in the morning, and just down the road, I had an accident breaking my hip. Just myself to blame. So how safe are we?

If you are fully vaccinated, and otherwise healthy, you should be fine at a Stones show this year in USA. If you are 80+ and fully vaccinated, then stay at home. If you have an organ transplant or another issue that makes you at risk, even being vaccinated, then stay at home. Ask your doctor, then you will know if you are safe.

If the covid-19 numbers keep growing like they do now, in USA, then wear a mask. It will probably be the recommendation anyway. Wear two masks if you really feel unsafe.

Most of the people in the crowd will be in the same seat during the entire show. There will be a few around you, but they will be the same people during the entire show. You are probably more unsafe if you use to go into a bar or a deli and stay inside there with other people, talking for hours, without a mask.

If you drive your own car to the show, and if you do not hang around in the catering area with the crowd for a long time, then you should be safe. Just do the things they say all the time. No need to talk face to face up front with hundreds of people during the show day, one of these may be infected with covid-19 without knowing. Enjoy the show, but keep your hands clean and wear a mask. Enjoy the shows if you are able to go!

Bjornulf

Masks should be mandatory in the Pit at every show - who knows what evil lurks when youre standing shoulder to shoulder with strangers for up to three to four hours (including opening act).
In Vegas, they're mandatory for everyone throughout the entire stadium, but wondering if the rule also includes the performers on stage?
If so, how will Karl Denson blow his horn, or how will Mick sing and play harmonica?!!! And Bernard and Sasha?

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Maybe they'll have ta mime it like
Dylan did ...and that wasnt even a live show



ROCKMAN

who knows what evil lurks when you're playing a song called Sympathy for the Devil. It should be clear what evil lurks more a question of if it lurks or doesn't lurk

Quote
bv
If you are fully vaccinated, and otherwise healthy, you should be fine at a Stones show this year in USA. If you are 80+ and fully vaccinated, then stay at home. If you have an organ transplant or another issue that makes you at risk, even being vaccinated, then stay at home. Ask your doctor, then you will know if you are safe.

Now that there are new studies showing the Pfizer vaccine is only 40-50% effective at preventing Delta infection when the vaccine was given over 6 months prior, I don't know if this is necessarily true anymore. I received my Pfizer doses in April 2021. I have tickets for Tampa and Vegas which would both be 6 months after I received my vaccine shots.

Quote
bv
I changed the headline of this thread from "this summer" into "this year", because the tour is not until late september, which is fall time rather than summer.

Safety is always relative. I was in USA three months in the summer of 2019, following the Stones tour then. I felt safe, but there were scooters all over, so I had to watch my back at all times. Dangerous days! I survived, but as I went home from the tour, same week actually, I took my own bike to the store in the morning, and just down the road, I had an accident breaking my hip. Just myself to blame. So how safe are we?

If you are fully vaccinated, and otherwise healthy, you should be fine at a Stones show this year in USA. If you are 80+ and fully vaccinated, then stay at home. If you have an organ transplant or another issue that makes you at risk, even being vaccinated, then stay at home. Ask your doctor, then you will know if you are safe.

If the covid-19 numbers keep growing like they do now, in USA, then wear a mask. It will probably be the recommendation anyway. Wear two masks if you really feel unsafe.

Most of the people in the crowd will be in the same seat during the entire show. There will be a few around you, but they will be the same people during the entire show. You are probably more unsafe if you use to go into a bar or a deli and stay inside there with other people, talking for hours, without a mask.

If you drive your own car to the show, and if you do not hang around in the catering area with the crowd for a long time, then you should be safe. Just do the things they say all the time. No need to talk face to face up front with hundreds of people during the show day, one of these may be infected with covid-19 without knowing. Enjoy the show, but keep your hands clean and wear a mask. Enjoy the shows if you are able to go!

Are you going to any Fall dates? If you’re in Nashville, I’d like to say hi.

absolutely 100% comfortable living my best life seeing The Rolling Stones and enjoying every minute of it luckily in Florida where we won't have any restrictions cause I'm vaccinated.

I’m not wearing a fckng surgical mask to a concert.
The chance of getting the COVID Mach 2 if you are vaccinated is less than 10 percent, I’ll take those odds.
If you are unvaccinated and going to a show you are the dumbest Stones fan since the naked fat guy who jumped on the bikers at Altamont.

It’s not my job to stop natural selection, you want to tell that one wildebeest who looks up like” where’d everybody go?” dude, run!!! but you can’t.

I’m watching the GnR tour, the review I read said something like” a couple of masks here and there and a lot of bandannas and fishnets.”
Let’s try that, a rock and roll show not an emergency room.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-12 10:10 by lem motlow.

I'll be surprised if ppl follow the mask mandate in las vegas. Go in any store, or restaurant, around here. Businesses are really not enforcing it.

Shit is getting comical.