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Hairball

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runaway
Always luved the vinyls and Pére-Lachaise looked better in the 80s

Went there in '87, and the full bust of Jim was still intact (though covered in a variety of graffiti), and the area surrounding it was littered with beer bottles, flowers, and an assortment of other debris.

Likewise and there were also signs leading me to Jim’s grave

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24FPS
50 years ago is clear as day to me. Brian Jones I heard about on the radio that Fourth of July Weekend. (July 3rd is also Brian Jones death date.) I remember Hendrix was reported on the evening news. I don't remember Joplin. By the time they got to Morrison, drug deaths were becoming common. I actually stood in a grocery store, and read in either Time or Newsweek about Morrison dying.

It didn't seem a big deal. Looking back I guess the Doors just weren't that popular at the time. And there was always a little snark in the rock press, not taking them seriously, like they were an Alice Cooper gimmick type act. It would take years, and Francis Ford Coppola, for them, and Morrison, to achieve the exalted reputation they hold today.

What no one ever mentions is how the heads of America's rock supremacy were lopped off in a ten month period, starting with Hendrix in September of '70. And America's rock future, Duane Allman, 24, was beheaded a little less than four months later on October 29th, 1971.

The Morrison death was wrapped in mystery that has never been completely revealed. And his partner at the time of his death, Pam Courson, might have taken more information with her to the grave when she also overdosed on Heroin just three years later. It is a bit strange that Morrison wrote a poem about Brian Jones death in 1969, then succumbed on the exact same day two years later. America's greatest rock stars of the 60s and early 70s were all gone in a little over a year period.

Poor Otis, dead and gone....

Coppola, I think you mean Oliver Stone, and i would disagree with your premise, The Doors were huge, In the 80's the reproduction of his "Arm's Wide Open, Shirtless" Picture was on every 2nd girls bedroom wall

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SKILLS

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24FPS
50 years ago is clear as day to me. Brian Jones I heard about on the radio that Fourth of July Weekend. (July 3rd is also Brian Jones death date.) I remember Hendrix was reported on the evening news. I don't remember Joplin. By the time they got to Morrison, drug deaths were becoming common. I actually stood in a grocery store, and read in either Time or Newsweek about Morrison dying.

It didn't seem a big deal. Looking back I guess the Doors just weren't that popular at the time. And there was always a little snark in the rock press, not taking them seriously, like they were an Alice Cooper gimmick type act. It would take years, and Francis Ford Coppola, for them, and Morrison, to achieve the exalted reputation they hold today.

What no one ever mentions is how the heads of America's rock supremacy were lopped off in a ten month period, starting with Hendrix in September of '70. And America's rock future, Duane Allman, 24, was beheaded a little less than four months later on October 29th, 1971.

The Morrison death was wrapped in mystery that has never been completely revealed. And his partner at the time of his death, Pam Courson, might have taken more information with her to the grave when she also overdosed on Heroin just three years later. It is a bit strange that Morrison wrote a poem about Brian Jones death in 1969, then succumbed on the exact same day two years later. America's greatest rock stars of the 60s and early 70s were all gone in a little over a year period.

Poor Otis, dead and gone....

Coppola, I think you mean Oliver Stone, and i would disagree with your premise, The Doors were huge, In the 80's the reproduction of his "Arm's Wide Open, Shirtless" Picture was on every 2nd girls bedroom wall

I think 24FPS is talking about the situation surrounding The Doors in the 70’s, not the 80’s onwards, roughly saying. Since Coppola adopted The End for his film, Apocalypse Now, which was premiered in the U.S. on August 15, 1979, The Doors’ popularity and recognition among people went bigger. For the generation that experienced the film firsthand, the tune and the images of the helicopters hovering over the red sky of Vietnam are inseparable. Oliver Stone’s eponymous 1991 film is part of The Doors revival.

Around the same period, some U.K. post-punk/New Wave bands, most notably Echo & the Bunnymen, came to the scene with the sound strongly influenced by The Doors, which also contributed to the revitalisation of the group. Joy Division has often been compared to The Doors, including the early demise of their respective lead singers.

I've live in Venice, especially the beach area, for a long time and it's interesting how it's marketed and all that I guess. (I live in Nashville part time)...
...Robbie makes good records with Tommy Mars who worked with Zappa many years. John is soulful, sweet and still around. Ray passed but produced X in 1980.. stayed crisp and intelligent and sweet also. I never got West till more than a decade after Jim passed away.

I'm right at the Big V sign now.
I'm sorry I haven't read this thread yet but I was 15 when they cut that first album. Forest least four studio album's in a row, and right from the start in the New York, New Jersey megalopolis and a over the National Charts, the Doors were HUGE.
They had nothing to prove and a legacy sealed after one album. Certainly two.
This is coming from a kid who had never seen California or Florida where Jim is From.

All the Stones caught them live in l.a.
They had ZERO to prove that they hadn't proved on record and St The Whisky. Sorta their Cavern Club or that London Club The Stones made legendary.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-05 17:53 by hopkins.

Also I'd like to add that Elektra had been the Key Folk music label and that was a very Big, inclusive and important movement and also breeding ground, as we know from the Dylan saga.
...
Only the hippiest intellectual follies would
Get Way into their lyrical, hypnotics etc..
And funky amalgamation of jazz, classical, flamenco and Blues. But there was GREAT awareness that Judy Collins ( way bigger than Bob Dylan for a time),
That her turncoat Elektra Records president would sign Love and The Doors.
They were absolutely appreciated.
Light My Fire will always be a Great Rush. Lol. Robbie wrote that one.

Here I (as well as 24FPS, presumably) am talking about the 70’s, roughly the first decade Jim Morrison was no longer with us — neither the 60’s nor the 80’s and beyond. I can believe The Doors were huge in the late 60’s, at least up to the point of the infamous Miami debacle, March 1969. After Jim’s death, they made their presence felt less, semi-forgotten for the most part, if not entirely forgotten, until Apocalypse Now arrived.

Jim Morrison was almost 20 years dead when I got into the doors, but to me they were a band. John Densmore was a big part of their sound, just a phenomenal drummer, Manzarek playing bass keyboard with one hand and the organ pieces with the other is a hard thing to do, his organ gave them that ancient quality to the music. Robby Krieger is an amazing guitarist, especially in live settings he had a great tone.
I listened to a lot of their bootlegs and fell in love with the sound of the band totally.

But Jim Morrison is just one of the pieces of that band to me. Great voice, great melodies, some great lyrics and he delivered a song live with some power and passion. He’s not this Dionysus type genius poet that he’s become in media and music folklore. Not the person Ray Manzarek claims he was. I just thought Morrison was a Shane MacGowan type. A talented pisshead. A guy who wrote great lyrics but still pissed his pants like any drunk. But the retrospective image is the Lizard King leather pants genius drunken singer poet. (Probably fixed for ever in the public image after that terrible Oliver Stone movie, Kilmer was great, the movie was not)

Jim Morrison has been elevated way beyond his talent. His lyrics were written between the ages of 22-27. He was a drunken kid. Albeit a talented one. But not a “poet”

If you want poetry, turn to literature, not music.

ROCKMAN

ROCKMAN

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RisingStone
Here I (as well as 24FPS, presumably) am talking about the 70’s, roughly the first decade Jim Morrison was no longer with us — neither the 60’s nor the 80’s and beyond. I can believe The Doors were huge in the late 60’s, at least up to the point of the infamous Miami debacle, March 1969. After Jim’s death, they made their presence felt less, semi-forgotten for the most part, if not entirely forgotten, until Apocalypse Now arrived.

I guess it depends on personal perspective and what you mean by "semi-forgotten" and "entirely forgotten", but based on my experience that has never been the case. Light My Fire has been on near constant radio airplay since the day it was released, and that tune alone guaranteed they would never be "semi-forgotten" or "entirely forgotten". Then again, I was born and raised in the L.A. area - Santa Monica specifically which borders Venice, CA, and the presence of the Doors has always been felt.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball

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RisingStone
Here I (as well as 24FPS, presumably) am talking about the 70’s, roughly the first decade Jim Morrison was no longer with us — neither the 60’s nor the 80’s and beyond. I can believe The Doors were huge in the late 60’s, at least up to the point of the infamous Miami debacle, March 1969. After Jim’s death, they made their presence felt less, semi-forgotten for the most part, if not entirely forgotten, until Apocalypse Now arrived.

I guess it depends on personal perspective and what you mean by "semi-forgotten" and "entirely forgotten", but based on my experience that has never been the case. Light My Fire has been on near constant radio airplay since the day it was released, and that tune alone guaranteed they would never be "semi-forgotten" or "entirely forgotten". Then again, I was born and raised in the L.A. area - Santa Monica specifically which borders Venice, CA, and the presence of the Doors has always been felt.

Personal perspective...indeed. Unlike me, you live in Doors Country — i.e. the U.S. of A., moreover, the L.A. area. Therefore you are more entitled to claim what the circumstance was like back then than I.

On the other hand, 24FPS, another witness from the L.A. area (I detect it from his past posts) who read the news of Jim’s death firsthand in real time, offers a similar recollection with mine. It may give some validity to my view.

Do you feel the situations surrounding The Doors, their cultural status and recognition among the general public, changed after Apocalypse Now? I do.

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Rockman

And everybody in the audience in this picture is saying “can I have my 4 bucks back? This guy’s leather paints really stinks”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-06 05:56 by Cooltoplady.

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RisingStone

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Hairball

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RisingStone
Here I (as well as 24FPS, presumably) am talking about the 70’s, roughly the first decade Jim Morrison was no longer with us — neither the 60’s nor the 80’s and beyond. I can believe The Doors were huge in the late 60’s, at least up to the point of the infamous Miami debacle, March 1969. After Jim’s death, they made their presence felt less, semi-forgotten for the most part, if not entirely forgotten, until Apocalypse Now arrived.

I guess it depends on personal perspective and what you mean by "semi-forgotten" and "entirely forgotten", but based on my experience that has never been the case. Light My Fire has been on near constant radio airplay since the day it was released, and that tune alone guaranteed they would never be "semi-forgotten" or "entirely forgotten". Then again, I was born and raised in the L.A. area - Santa Monica specifically which borders Venice, CA, and the presence of the Doors has always been felt.

Personal perspective...indeed. Unlike me, you live in Doors Country — i.e. the U.S. of A., moreover, the L.A. area. Therefore you are more entitled to claim what the circumstance was like back then than I.

On the other hand, 24FPS, another witness from the L.A. area (I detect it from his past posts) who read the news of Jim’s death firsthand in real time, offers a similar recollection with mine. It may give some validity to my view.

Do you feel the situations surrounding The Doors, their cultural status and recognition among the general public, changed after Apocalypse Now? I do.

I already stated in a previous post that there was "a major revival of interest in the Doors in the late '70's, but they never really went away in the first place" (see post previous page). How any band with such big hits such as Light My Fire (for starters) could ever be semi-forgotten or forgotten is a ridiculous notion, but maybe where you're from they were, and maybe others such as 24FPS have foggy memories. Clearly many other people including several in this thread recall it differently and prove the contrary - they never went away, and were always "big" on some level. And that's not just from the perspective of someone who was born and raised in the L.A. area.


*edit - spell check

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-06 05:41 by Hairball.

they were "big" but they were faded. The legacy never really went away, but a "Doors" concert without JM did not draw many people. Their albums without JM never sold much nor got much if any radio play. By the later seventies, in my part of california anyhow, even though "everyone" knew the Doors, nobody paid them much mind other than to sing along to their dozen or so hit songs. It was AN that caused a major revival of interest, but then also they never really went away, they just did not progress much beyond their glory days of their first three or four LPs. And as I seem to recall, JM himself was a pretty minor figure on the scene by the time he passed away. I personally had written him off as a major drunk whose performances were pretty cringe worthy as a whole, although somehow they continued to come out with some good songs if you cherry picked their LP releases. Their concerts though seemed to me to have descended to the point of drunken rants with little musicality to them. As I recall, the "music press" accentuated and reinforced that point of view.

I really loved Strange Days other than the "The End" reprise that I thought was unnecessarily and self-consciously morbid, with little of the impact of "The End" from the first LP. It was pretty much downhill from there for me.

jb

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jbwelda
they were "big" but they were faded. The legacy never really went away, but a "Doors" concert without JM did not draw many people. Their albums without JM never sold much nor got much if any radio play. By the later seventies, in my part of california anyhow, even though "everyone" knew the Doors, nobody paid them much mind other than to sing along to their dozen or so hit songs. It was AN that caused a major revival of interest, but then also they never really went away, they just did not progress much beyond their glory days of their first three or four LPs. And as I seem to recall, JM himself was a pretty minor figure on the scene by the time he passed away. I personally had written him off as a major drunk whose performances were pretty cringe worthy as a whole, although somehow they continued to come out with some good songs if you cherry picked their LP releases. Their concerts though seemed to me to have descended to the point of drunken rants with little musicality to them. As I recall, the "music press" accentuated and reinforced that point of view.

I really loved Strange Days other than the "The End" reprise that I thought was unnecessarily and self-consciously morbid, with little of the impact of "The End" from the first LP. It was pretty much downhill from there for me.

jb

May I say, here is another Californian who was there chooses a closer perspective to 24FPS and me?

Listen to Jim’s dad.
[m.youtube.com]

Robbie`s guitar in the first half of "When The Music`s Over"... -Hmm, I think that scared some people away from the band, at least in the 70s, when music should be soft. People prefered The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac and Abba.

>People prefered The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac and Abba.


"People" may have, but none of the people I knew. Or paid attention to at any rate.

jb

ROCKMAN

Please see that my grave is kept clean.

Obviously not one of Morrison's fans' priorities.

jb

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Paddy
Jim Morrison was almost 20 years dead when I got into the doors, but to me they were a band. John Densmore was a big part of their sound, just a phenomenal drummer, Manzarek playing bass keyboard with one hand and the organ pieces with the other is a hard thing to do, his organ gave them that ancient quality to the music. Robby Krieger is an amazing guitarist, especially in live settings he had a great tone.
I listened to a lot of their bootlegs and fell in love with the sound of the band totally.

But Jim Morrison is just one of the pieces of that band to me. Great voice, great melodies, some great lyrics and he delivered a song live with some power and passion. He’s not this Dionysus type genius poet that he’s become in media and music folklore. Not the person Ray Manzarek claims he was. I just thought Morrison was a Shane MacGowan type. A talented pisshead. A guy who wrote great lyrics but still pissed his pants like any drunk. But the retrospective image is the Lizard King leather pants genius drunken singer poet. (Probably fixed for ever in the public image after that terrible Oliver Stone movie, Kilmer was great, the movie was not)

Jim Morrison has been elevated way beyond his talent. His lyrics were written between the ages of 22-27. He was a drunken kid. Albeit a talented one. But not a “poet”

If you want poetry, turn to literature, not music.

I really love The Doors but this, very respectfully because Jim's power was awesome; and yes looking back as an old man now, Jim was also a tiny bit pretentious, not as much as a lot of kids and certainly show biz characters; I'll not minimize the Unknown Soldier video attempts, not really 'filmmaking' per se, but fascinating in context, as this was Way before "Video (unfortunately imo,) killed the radio star" ...
and also Jim's sense of humor and play live, offsetting some of the very heavy drama; and yes piss drunkeness i guess. i think they were probably pretty consistently exciting live. yes as a Band, like Paddy says.
also i agree with most of his take here; it feels right to me tho i love The Dorrs.

Ray said Jim was very positive about recording again; the records were doing well; he said that he was talking with Jim via phone when Jim was in France; and that Jim was into the band and touring and all that; also he was looking healthy; not bloated to me; i am not into conspiracy theories too much or wanting to launch a tirade but i have weird feelings about jim and jimi going down like that

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jbwelda
>People prefered The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac and Abba.


"People" may have, but none of the people I knew. Or paid attention to at any rate.

jb

Well, remember this was before the "Acopalypse Now" movie and the Jerry Hopkins book. The Doors` popularity these years after his death was equal to nil.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-07-11 16:59 by noughties.

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noughties

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jbwelda
>People prefered The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac and Abba.


"People" may have, but none of the people I knew. Or paid attention to at any rate.

jb

Well, remember this was before the "Acopalypse Now" movie and the Jerry Hopkins book. The Doors` popularity these years after his death was equal to nil.

I think jbwelda — also I — agrees with you as regards the popularity (or decline of it) of The Doors through the 70’s, more or less. It’s just that people around him didn’t listen to The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac and Abba. Around me? Yes, lots of them people did...

I have always referred to the Doors as the "gateway drug" that brought me into the classic rock sphere and got the ball rolling on my fandom of the Stones, Neil Young, Zeppelin, Dylan etc.

Growing up in the late 70s and early 80s in Canada my first favourite bands as a kid were the Police and Journey. What did I know, other than what I was hearing on FM radio? My parents, while in their 20s in the 1960s were not rock n' roll fans. The record collection at my home consisted of Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby and Tony Bennett. (Strangely my Dad did develop a strange and brief fascination with David Lee Roth following the release of "Just a Gigilo".)

A HUGE turning point in my life was in early HS when an older boy across the street from me introduced me to his favourite band, The Doors. I immediately purchased all of their cassettes and the Doors soon became my obsession. By the time I was 16 and started attending parties in the late 1980s the soundtrack of these gatherings was Zeppelin, the Stones, AC/DC and I gradually moved on from the Doors as I came to view Morrison's lyrics as mostly nonsensical and far removed from either the magnificance of Dylan or the cleverness of Jagger/Richards. Having said this, I cannot deny that the Doors had provided my gateway to the brilliance of the "classic rock" era.

Very recently I dusted off some Doors records that I picked up in a bargain bin some time ago and played them. What I came to appreciate was the rest of the band. Those guys were pretty good together! As for Morrison, well I still think his writing leaves something to be desired, but I absolutely love the weariness and exhaustion in the vocals on the LA Woman album which features some great tracks like "The Changeling", "Cars Hiss by my Window" and "Hyacinth House". Morrison Hotel is also a pretty darned good LP.

FYI — “The Doors’ iconic 1968 Hollywood Bowl gig [Special Edition] is set to be screened in cinemas”

One night only, on November 4 — but some later screenings seem to be on the schedule, depending on the cinemas.

[thedoors.com]

[www.nme.com]

Has anyone read Krieger’s Autobiography? Got it Monday, finished it on Monday, it’s a pretty balanced view on the doors, not the bitter tone Densmores had nor the mythology that Rays had. Robby addresses Rays BS multiple times through the book. Some cool info on certain tracks and sounds in the studio. How he got the tone for his solo on “when the musics over” is a cool story along with the dual solos ending up on the track. An enjoyable read.

There’s a funny bit in it where he mentions “No one here gets out live” by Jerry Hopkins & Danny Sugarman. He says:

“What made things more complicated was that Jerry and Danny had some uncredited help. On more than one occasion Bill Siddons would arrive at Danny’s house on Doors business to discover Ray sitting behind a typewriter, embellishing the manuscript even further.”


For a book solely on Morrison.

“Morrison - A feast of friends” by Frank Lisciandro is still the best read about Jim I’ve come across.

Stones related from Robby Kriegers book:

“The Stones also happened to be in town. They were working on the song “Gimme Shelter” at Elektra Studios around the same time, and I got to drop in on the session when Mick Jagger and Merry Clayton recorded their famous vocal duet. It was obvious they had a hit on their hands. I later learned they had pulled Merry out of bed at the last minute for the session; I remember wondering at the time why she was recording with curlers in her hair. Curtis Amy, who played the sax solo on “Touch Me,” was dating Merry at the time and was there with me to watch her sing. He and Merry got married about a year or two later. Must’ve been some magic going around Elektra Studios to bring the Stones, the Beatles, the Doors, and Merry and Curtis together.”

I never knew he was in the studio for this..

I saw The Doors at the San Diego Sports Arena (1968), only remember one song "When the Music's Over", Jim scared the shit out of me with this song, he started singing/talking in the middle part of the song in a southerner preacher's voice about "fire and brimstone", the music, voice and subject matter triggered a panic attack on me. I was only 16 and the year before I had gone with my parents to see Billy Graham so I was pretty familiar with line of thought. "the end is near",it was a very scary concert.

The Doors has always been a studio band to me, -wouldn`t have wanted to see them live. -Long versions and no bass player, to say the least. You can guess the rest.