Isn’t Elton a black belt in martial arts? So maybe Keith could not take him even with his knife

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Re: Details on the "Knife Incident" during "Steel Wheels" sessions ?
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: June 2, 2021 18:50

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ProfessorWolf
i think most of this is probaly image and myth that keith and others have built around keith for half a century or so its fun if you don't take it to seriously
...
Normally I would agree, but there are just too many stories for them all to be just myths, including some in autobiographies

i agree with you



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-03 04:21 by ProfessorWolf.

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Taylor1
Isn’t Elton a black belt in martial arts? So maybe Keith could not take him even with his knife

I was thinking Keef hung around with Peter Tosh enough maybe he had some real training in martial arts.

Throwing a knife around is pure showmanship.

jb

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jbwelda

Throwing a knife around is pure showmanship.

jb

Keef is a smart guy. He knows the "knife act" will have an effect on a sheltered Ivy League music industry exec... enough to scare him and and make him leave him the studio and stop trying to harm the band's music.

On tour it's a different affair : sleep deprivation, coke, booze (lotsa both) and the stress of being on the road can lead a man to do sth socially not acceptable.

And it's better to show the knife to an incompetent cog of the live machine than playing the untouchable virgin and having the dirty job getting done by a brainless minder like Richard Cole... (hello Jimmy Page).

"a sheltered Ivy League music industry exec"

What ?! You still haven't seen that the guy who was offering advice was Peter Mensch ?

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-03 16:07 by gotdablouse.

I always thought that in say 1960s London, musicians and criminals mixed in the same circles (clubs, bars, nightclubs, venues etc.) Criminals owned Gamow of these places and or ran the security/drugs in these places. Depending on where you are at a given time, it might be dumb NOT to carry some for of weapon. The managers of bands in those days were mostly acting in a criminal manner also. If you then add drugs into the mix and the type of people you’re dealing with there, a weapon may also be a good idea to have as a backup.

I’m sure it’s 50~50 truth wise when it comes to all the various stories around Keith. But at the end of the day, people in rock n roll bands are rarely normal people. It’s a life on the edge of society, outside its rules & laws. A life With all its own laws and rules.

As for Keith being a “pussy” at Altamont. I dunno, my recollection from the footage is he confronted the Angels a few times during the gig. “If those cats don’t cool it man”

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Mariuana
Actually it's funny how you say it's not okay for anyone to behave like that and not ok to tolerate it just because it's Keith and then you get someone trying to turn it into argument or smth. For those who seem "whatever" with Keith pulling a knife on peaceful people like a DJ, engeneer or a fellow musician I would recommend to watch him in Altamont. He looked like a pussy staying behind and joined Mick just once with his short remark that they would not play. Later, he was not the one to oppose the HA actions on behalf of the Stones.

Keith was cool during Altamont.He was no pussy.It's called being smart, and he did call out the Angels, and got away with it. One can't help wonder what stupid cowardly thing you would do under the circumstances. Maybe you would have left with the Grateful Dead.

.... Always thought mick an Keith remained
very cool considering the Altamont chaos and
mayhem that was all around them ....

Wouldnt have liked to be in their position .

AND then that over-loaded chopper ride out of there .... phew heavy stuff



ROCKMAN

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Paddy


As for Keith being a “pussy” at Altamont. I dunno, my recollection from the footage is he confronted the Angels a few times during the gig. “If those cats don’t cool it man”

I’m sure a scrawny, semi-wasted Keith Richards terrified the hardened Hells Angels. That’s irrelevant, however. Keith wasn’t a ‘pussy’, but surely a little foolish in his stoned state.

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Big Al

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Paddy


As for Keith being a “pussy” at Altamont. I dunno, my recollection from the footage is he confronted the Angels a few times during the gig. “If those cats don’t cool it man”

I’m sure a scrawny, semi-wasted Keith Richards terrified the hardened Hells Angels. That’s irrelevant, however. Keith wasn’t a ‘pussy’, but surely a little foolish in his stoned state.

And yet brave tough Sonny Barger claimed to have put a gun to Keith on stage at Altamont. Not.

And, rather than using the knife, in 1978 didn't Mick opt for a smoother more-jaggeresque option, that is playing a (looped?) 50-minute reggae tune to an obviously disturbed record exec and telling him "this is our next album!".

Knife or fake album preview, the message is the same : "go f@ck yerself and don't mess with our creative process!".

A third possiblity is the Ozzy Osbourne one : in one 90's docu about him he's filmed hearing the advice from another caricatural exec telling him his net album should be "Ladders To Fire" (ladder ---> up ---> Heaven //// contradiction with fire ---> Hell! Get it Oz? snort)

Ozzy nods in agreement and feigns to be impress with the concept while his eyes say he thinks the guy's a turd.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-04 15:52 by dcba.

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loog droog
Frankly, I'm not impressed by Keith's boasts about what a badass he is.

It's easy for a rich guy to talk tough when he's backed up by big bodyguards.

Even worse than this knife story was when he was quoted in Musician magazine about wanting to slit Mick's throat.


Sad Sad Sad.

I was reading an article somewhere and the journalist was pressing Keith about his feud with Elton John. The journalist pressed too hard and he then went on to mention why people could be afraid of Keith. It scared him and he dropped the issue. Bodyguards aside, I don't think I'd f$%k with Keith, even now. He's a survivor, to get this far. I met him and Ronnie briefly at a bar in NYC in 1985. There was this badass vibe about him.

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Big Al

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Paddy


As for Keith being a “pussy” at Altamont. I dunno, my recollection from the footage is he confronted the Angels a few times during the gig. “If those cats don’t cool it man”

I’m sure a scrawny, semi-wasted Keith Richards terrified the hardened Hells Angels. That’s irrelevant, however. Keith wasn’t a ‘pussy’, but surely a little foolish in his stoned state.

Keith wasn't a pussy. I'll give him cred for stepping up...

But, if he were NOT a Rolling Stone and just a Random Shmuck, he would've gotten a pool cue to the face or a knife in his back...

or he'd be serving 10 years for smack-possession....oh wait, that was later on....

granted, I wouldn't mouth off to the Angels under any circumstance...so, there's also that.

>granted, I wouldn't mouth off to the Angels under any circumstance...so, there's also that.

here is some good advice from what may be the voice of experience. #1 lesson of living in Cali.

And I think our boy was into the smack in 69 too.

jb

yeah right-in 1970 was in berkley walking by hells angel -Said to me hey nice sleeping bag on your back like to have that (was hitching around)I just smiled & crossed the st. real fast. yrs. later was parked down from golden gate 2a.m. smoking with the old lady. six of them drove up next to us. got nervous & got outa there. also petted their german shepherd one nite on the sidewalk in san fran. just for a second. my old lady was pissed! seen them plenty of times down in e. village nyc.

Keith being tough really cracks me up. He’s always a tough guy when he’s got bouncers and bodyguards around him. And he shows people the blade! Give me a break. In the real world he would get his ass kicked. He’s a skinny short English guy and would be lucky to get a few punches in. Stick to playing guitar Keith it’s what you know best.

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whitem8
Keith being tough really cracks me up. He’s always a tough guy when he’s got bouncers and bodyguards around him. And he shows people the blade! Give me a break. In the real world he would get his ass kicked. He’s a skinny short English guy and would be lucky to get a few punches in. Stick to playing guitar Keith it’s what you know best.

Exactly! The malnourished-look he sported really must’ve sent shivers down the spine of those who crossed his path!

Malnourished?
He looked like a mountain on the 75 tour. In 78 and 81 he was slick thin and potentially dangerous as he had kicked junk.
Malnourished? Jimmy Page comes to mind again... ><

And RE fighting... you shall always be wary of the guy who's smaller than you!

Cos :
a - he'll have no qualms about hitting in "forbidden" places cos he'll intuitively think you have an edge on him being the taller one.

b - his small size allows him to hit you in said forbidden places (gonads mainly).

No the main reason Keef would rarely get into a fight as he has some nobility (read "class") in him. He ain't Wattie from The Exploited, mate!

In the video clip with Muddy Waters in Chicago, 1981, Keith whips out what looks like a butterfly knife to open a bottle of Jack. He looks pretty damn adept at using it

Around the 3 minute mark.

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StonedAsiaExile
In the video clip with Muddy Waters in Chicago, 1981, Keith whips out what looks like a butterfly knife to open a bottle of Jack. He looks pretty damn adept at using it

Around the 3 minute mark.

^My favorite part of that film.

I am certain Keith has never been in a fight in his life other than as a grade school boy.And if you think he is scary you should walk through the mean streets of any major American city.I would like to have seen him arm wrestle Elton when they were having their feud over dead princesses.Keith as a fighter is as credible as the story of Brian pulling a knife on Mick in 1969



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-06 18:09 by Taylor1.

Maybe that's why he has the blade

Reading his book he comes out as a pacifist though. He claims that the blade should only be used to scare off your antagonist.
You launch an attack and make a small gash in the forehead. Apparently that will make your opponent back off. According to Keith...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-06-06 19:17 by Stoneage.

I got the handle baby, and you gonna get the blade.

Remember that when you think you are going to challenge Keith to anything.

Those who think smaller people cannot fight are making a serious mistake. Its easy to sit behind your computer screen and be tough, lets see it in real life. Just ain't gonna happen even if you did manage to get within arms reach. He just leaves the dirty work to those he hires to take care of it, I have no doubt he could in his prime or even his past defend himself all by himself.

jb

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jbwelda
I got the handle baby, and you gonna get the blade.

Remember that when you think you are going to challenge Keith to anything.

Those who think smaller people cannot fight are making a serious mistake. Its easy to sit behind your computer screen and be tough, lets see it in real life. Just ain't gonna happen even if you did manage to get within arms reach. He just leaves the dirty work to those he hires to take care of it, I have no doubt he could in his prime or even his past defend himself all by himself.

jb

I’m not doubting that ‘smaller people’ cannot fight, as such; of course they can. It’s just that Keith wasn’t exactly blessed generically: his baseline is appalling. If he were not surrounded by goons, his prowess as a fighter would be laughable.

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jbwelda
>granted, I wouldn't mouth off to the Angels under any circumstance...so, there's also that.

here is some good advice from what may be the voice of experience. #1 lesson of living in Cali.

And I think our boy was into the smack in 69 too.

jb

true, true....but, I was referring to him getting busted w/ an ounce of smack and his punishment being "play a charity concert"...

gonna go out on a limb and say that not too many Regular Dbags like me would get such treatment from the Law or the Angels...there's privileges to being a star....

I mean, at Altamont even that dork from Jefferson Airplane "called out" the Angels for punching the guitar player....

I'd bet that dude would've been sucking his meals through a straw and gumming his food for a few months if he wasn't "in the band"....

<Gonna go out on a limb and say that not too many Regular Dbags like me would get such treatment from the Law or the Angels...there's privileges to being a star....>

You're not out on a limb

Imho the genuinely dangerous Keith of the 60's/70's has turned into an actor.

I remember reading a 1997 interview in "Details" where he showed a young female journalist how he could give his "I'm gonna stab you, kill you" look on demand.

The girl went "ooooooooooh" and named Keef the "human switchblade".

Theatricals, baby... Theatricals!

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jbwelda
I got the handle baby, and you gonna get the blade.

Remember that when you think you are going to challenge Keith to anything.

Those who think smaller people cannot fight are making a serious mistake. Its easy to sit behind your computer screen and be tough, lets see it in real life. Just ain't gonna happen even if you did manage to get within arms reach. He just leaves the dirty work to those he hires to take care of it, I have no doubt he could in his prime or even his past defend himself all by himself.

jb

I remember an interview/quote of Keith saying something like "I'm small but I'm fast so I'll do some damage before getting taking down"...now to find where/when/why he said that, another quest, hope I get some help this time !

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IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Keith is my musical hero but... he was bullied (like me) at school and his anti authority stance comes from being chucked out of the boys choir. Not a tough guy.


He can throw a pretty scary stare but that's about it