Quote
jbwelda
Yelling at Bill Graham, yeah man that does a lot of good. You are lucky he just retaliated with words instead of booting yer ass out of the park like he did with a lot of others in similar situations.

jb

ahhh, but you don't know the conclusion of the story -- he had those damned planters moved which to me was what Bill Graham was all about -- call him autocratic or whatever, he took care of the fans. I remember also seeing him outside the Cow Palace for the Stones making sure everything was going well when they first opened the doors.

So not so fast Mr. JB Welda.


plexi

Quote
yearsinthemaking
Quote
yearsinthemaking
The Stones limited what could be recorded at the time. Like now they were very controlling. Unfortunately we are the losers in the end because they felt if Dick Cavett or anyone else recorded them the people doing the recording would have possession of the tapes. It goes back to their mindless refusal to allow the BBC to record them at the 1966 NME show. The Beatles did the same thing. There's just not much out there from 1970-73. Robert Frank may have made some more live video but it seems fairly crappy.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if in some vault somewhere in London there are some multi-angled tapes from MSG in '72 as well as London or Brussels in '73. Or maybe that's just some insane wishful thinking!!!!


The Maysles bros recorded entire shows of all three MSG shows in '69.

Yes, but the Maysles were hired by the Stones as was Robert Frank and whomever is credited with recording L&G. Cavett and the the BBC were not.

. So the Cavett show filmed Brown Sugar, then stopped filming the concert for nine songs then started filming again All Down the Line, then stopped again for 2songs before continuing to film Street Fighting Man all at the directive of someone in the Stones camp?

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timbernardis

Quote
jbwelda
Yelling at Bill Graham, yeah man that does a lot of good. You are lucky he just retaliated with words instead of booting yer ass out of the park like he did with a lot of others in similar situations.

jb

ahhh, but you don't know the conclusion of the story -- he had those damned planters moved which to me was what Bill Graham was all about -- call him autocratic or whatever, he took care of the fans. I remember also seeing him outside the Cow Palace for the Stones making sure everything was going well when they first opened the doors.

So not so fast Mr. JB Welda.


plexi

Yes well that is very true, however much of an ass one might think BG was, he did take care of his patrons, it was his trademark all the way back to giving out apples and breakfast after his FW shows. So I am glad he moved the planters for you, surprised, but glad. Then I bet you felt a real fool having yelled at him like that and received the response you did. I know I would have.

He also kicked people off his guest list just because, more than once, and then resold the tickets to people waiting outside. Happened to a couple listeners of my then radio show and believe me, I heard about it.

jb

Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: May 27, 2021 16:48

Quote
yearsinthemaking
Quote
yearsinthemaking
The Stones limited what could be recorded at the time. Like now they were very controlling. Unfortunately we are the losers in the end because they felt if Dick Cavett or anyone else recorded them the people doing the recording would have possession of the tapes. It goes back to their mindless refusal to allow the BBC to record them at the 1966 NME show. The Beatles did the same thing. There's just not much out there from 1970-73. Robert Frank may have made some more live video but it seems fairly crappy.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if in some vault somewhere in London there are some multi-angled tapes from MSG in '72 as well as London or Brussels in '73. Or maybe that's just some insane wishful thinking!!!!


The Maysles bros recorded entire shows of all three MSG shows in '69.

Yes, but the Maysles were hired by the Stones as was Robert Frank and whomever is credited with recording L&G. Cavett and the the BBC were not.
. So the Cavett show filmed Brown Sugar, then stopped filming the concert for nine songs then started filming again All Down the Line, then stopped again for 2songs before continuing to film Street Fighting Man all at the directive of someone in the Stones camp?

I'm actually not familiar with a video of all down the line from MSG!!!

Quote
yearsinthemaking
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: May 27, 2021 16:48

Quote
yearsinthemaking
Quote
yearsinthemaking
The Stones limited what could be recorded at the time. Like now they were very controlling. Unfortunately we are the losers in the end because they felt if Dick Cavett or anyone else recorded them the people doing the recording would have possession of the tapes. It goes back to their mindless refusal to allow the BBC to record them at the 1966 NME show. The Beatles did the same thing. There's just not much out there from 1970-73. Robert Frank may have made some more live video but it seems fairly crappy.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if in some vault somewhere in London there are some multi-angled tapes from MSG in '72 as well as London or Brussels in '73. Or maybe that's just some insane wishful thinking!!!!


The Maysles bros recorded entire shows of all three MSG shows in '69.

Yes, but the Maysles were hired by the Stones as was Robert Frank and whomever is credited with recording L&G. Cavett and the the BBC were not.
. So the Cavett show filmed Brown Sugar, then stopped filming the concert for nine songs then started filming again All Down the Line, then stopped again for 2songs before continuing to film Street Fighting Man all at the directive of someone in the Stones camp?

I'm actually not familiar with a video of all down the line from MSG!!!

You have to view the original tv show .This can be found in various bootlegs.After a commercial break at the end of the Cavett show there is film of Jagger dancing frantically with Taylor playing slide.Monkey Man is dubbed in over the film for some reason.TheCavett show didn’t broadcast the concert live, but 2weeks later.So they edited the Stones concert.How much they filmed is anyone’s guess



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-28 01:52 by Taylor1.

[youtu.be]

Interesting to add to the discussion

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yearsinthemaking
[youtu.be]

Interesting to add to the discussion

Thanks! Haven't seen this before

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Taylor1

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yearsinthemaking
I'm actually not familiar with a video of all down the line from MSG!!!

You have to view the original tv show .This can be found in various bootlegs.After a commercial break at the end of the Cavett show there is film of Jagger dancing frantically with Taylor playing slide.Monkey Man is dubbed in over the film for some reason.TheCavett show didn’t broadcast the concert live, but 2weeks later.So they edited the Stones concert.How much they filmed is anyone’s guess

Here's the video in question:

[youtu.be]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-28 16:45 by automaticchanger.

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jbwelda

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timbernardis

Quote
jbwelda
Yelling at Bill Graham, yeah man that does a lot of good. You are lucky he just retaliated with words instead of booting yer ass out of the park like he did with a lot of others in similar situations.

jb

ahhh, but you don't know the conclusion of the story -- he had those damned planters moved which to me was what Bill Graham was all about -- call him autocratic or whatever, he took care of the fans. I remember also seeing him outside the Cow Palace for the Stones making sure everything was going well when they first opened the doors.

So not so fast Mr. JB Welda.


plexi

Yes well that is very true, however much of an ass one might think BG was, he did take care of his patrons, it was his trademark all the way back to giving out apples and breakfast after his FW shows. So I am glad he moved the planters for you, surprised, but glad. Then I bet you felt a real fool having yelled at him like that and received the response you did. I know I would have.

He also kicked people off his guest list just because, more than once, and then resold the tickets to people waiting outside. Happened to a couple listeners of my then radio show and believe me, I heard about it.

jb

I'm actually proud to say that I was one of the many people who were cussed out by Bill Graham, the legendary promoter. Something I treasure.

Tell me about your radio show.


plexi



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-30 08:12 by timbernardis.

>Tell me about your radio show.


I would but it would be off topic. Have had several radio shows, mostly community radio, over the years, all reggae music or heavily reggae influenced.

jb

>one of the many people who were cussed out by Bill Graham


It is a badge of pride, kind of like having Keef slug you one.

jb

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jbwelda
>Tell me about your radio show.


I would but it would be off topic. Have had several radio shows, mostly community radio, over the years, all reggae music or heavily reggae influenced.

jb

were you ever on KZAP?


plexi

Quote
jbwelda
>one of the many people who were cussed out by Bill Graham


It is a badge of pride, kind of like having Keef slug you one.

jb

Indeed!


plexi

Quote
timbernardis

Quote
jbwelda
>Tell me about your radio show.


I would but it would be off topic. Have had several radio shows, mostly community radio, over the years, all reggae music or heavily reggae influenced.

jb

were you ever on KZAP?


plexi

well funny you should ask because my friend Dennis is the director and manager of the reincarnation and he asked me if I wanted to do a reggae show there. Haven't acted on it though. If you mean the original station though, Dennis was involved back then but not me, I visited the studio when it was in the wino park building, 13th floor of the Elks Temple if I recall correctly, a couple times but that's about it. Listened a lot in the old days though especially when it was really pioneering free form radio.

jb

Dennis Newhall, of course.


plexi

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Taylor1

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yearsinthemaking
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: May 27, 2021 16:48

Quote
yearsinthemaking
Quote
yearsinthemaking
The Stones limited what could be recorded at the time. Like now they were very controlling. Unfortunately we are the losers in the end because they felt if Dick Cavett or anyone else recorded them the people doing the recording would have possession of the tapes. It goes back to their mindless refusal to allow the BBC to record them at the 1966 NME show. The Beatles did the same thing. There's just not much out there from 1970-73. Robert Frank may have made some more live video but it seems fairly crappy.

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if in some vault somewhere in London there are some multi-angled tapes from MSG in '72 as well as London or Brussels in '73. Or maybe that's just some insane wishful thinking!!!!


The Maysles bros recorded entire shows of all three MSG shows in '69.

Yes, but the Maysles were hired by the Stones as was Robert Frank and whomever is credited with recording L&G. Cavett and the the BBC were not.
. So the Cavett show filmed Brown Sugar, then stopped filming the concert for nine songs then started filming again All Down the Line, then stopped again for 2songs before continuing to film Street Fighting Man all at the directive of someone in the Stones camp?

I'm actually not familiar with a video of all down the line from MSG!!!

You have to view the original tv show .This can be found in various bootlegs.After a commercial break at the end of the Cavett show there is film of Jagger dancing frantically with Taylor playing slide.Monkey Man is dubbed in over the film for some reason.TheCavett show didn’t broadcast the concert live, but 2weeks later.So they edited the Stones concert.How much they filmed is anyone’s guess

Bear in mind that with filming in those days was with film cassettes that ran for about 8 minutes, and changing them took a couple of minutes. So with multiple cameras storyboards were created with the selected tracks to be filmed by which camera's. So even for MSG 1969 no complete show is available, but only selected songs from each show.

Mathijs

[www.youtube.com]

Quote
timbernardis
Dennis Newhall, of course.


plexi

yes he was one of the pioneers at KZAP and stayed with it for a long time. Its due to his hard work that it is back and thriving as I understand it. Has his hand in a lot of musical pots here in Sacramento and the greater bay area.

Wouldn't be too surprised if he weren't reading this. Big Stones fan from way back in the beginning.

jb

Can you make a case that Sactown is part of the "greater Bay Area"?? A "bedroom community" perhaps?


plexi

Quote
Taylor1
But at the end of the show there is a clip of them playing All Down the Line, not just the aforementioned songs.It was shown at the end of the original show , and has Monkey Man music overdubbed it .But its All Down the Line because Taylor is playing slide and Jagger is dancing frantically so its not Love in Vain.So why would they film Brown Sugar, then nothing else before jumping toAll Down then shutting it down again until Street Fighting Man.At the very least, it should mean they also had a film of All Down the Line as well

There's also additional footage in and out of the commercial breaks, including Jagger dancing with a harmonica in his mouth.

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yearsinthemaking
[youtu.be]

Interesting to add to the discussion

I believe this is @#$%& Blues footage with dubbed in audio of All Down The Line

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yearsinthemaking
There's just not much out there from 1970-73. Robert Frank may have made some more live video but it seems fairly crappy.

As for Robert Frank original footage, anything out there would be 16 or 8mm, and incomplete. I have seen some Frank outtakes which included b/w footage from Washington, D.C. - the camera, onstage, does a full-circle pan around the stadium and you can see that it is R.F.K.. There are a lot of typical-of-the-era young ladies sitting on the lip of the stage. Like with any Maysles original footage, the film is silent. At the time, audio and video were recorded separately.

The Getty Images/BBC online archive (which may have been renamed since I last visited it 5 or so years ago) has indoor and outdoor professional footage from the Albuquerque 72 show and the Boston 72 show that they were late for.

Albuquerque had footage of the lines of fans outside, the police/security presence**, and at least partial footage of Sweet Virginia, if not other songs. (I forget, it's been a while).

The Boston footage is mainly outside the venue when the Stones arrive from Providence with police escort and enter the building. I cannot recall if there's any indoor footage. Possibly of fans, and Mayor White's speech, but I don't believe there was any music involved (except, perhaps, Stevie Wonder).

I don't believe I have seen this footage anywhere else, but can't imagine watermarked downloads (similar to the Huntley Archives clips from 1970) haven't leaked by now.

Gaining access to the archive took a little fibbing, but was quite easy.

** - the police/security footage is how I figured out the film was from Albuquerque since their uniforms had patches etc. I must have posted about this when I discovered it, but I haven't searched my history since it was so long ago.

It’s just amazing how little of the 1972 tour was filmed , unlike the Beatles at Shea Stadium.The 1972 tour garnered massive coverage in the American media ,greater than any prior rock tour,, and you’d think it would have been recorded.The interest of fans was so great they had lottery for one of the NY shows tickets. The celebrities came out en masse to see the Stones.Yet no video or film other than the L&G and CS Blues films.

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JMARKO

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yearsinthemaking
[youtu.be]

Interesting to add to the discussion

I believe this is @#$%& Blues footage with dubbed in audio of All Down The Line

I found it in an Atlantic Records documentary with the studio version on top, but I assume it was probably shot by Robert Frank.

If you can remember the name of the online archive you're referring to in your last post, I'd appreciate it - curious to check out the clips you mention.

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automaticchanger

If you can remember the name of the online archive you're referring to in your last post, I'd appreciate it - curious to check out the clips you mention.

It was the BBC archive, and is now called the Getty Images archive.

I checked my post history and it was back in January of 2016 that I mentioned it.

I logged in last night, after changing my password etc., and I could not find either of the clips. It may take some tweaking in the search criteria. It's nothing as blatant as "Rolling Stones Albuquerque 1972."

I looked through "Rolling Stones" which they did not come up through.

I also tried "Mick Jagger" without any luck.

As I remember it, there's also no indication in the screenshot either - in other words, you don't see a live 72 shot in the screenshot they use. It was probably a generic image of a line of fans.

The one semi-interesting clip I found was footage of people arriving at El Mocambo in buses, and the band being shuttled out in cars after the gig.
When I first came across it, I thought it might have been the Boston footage, but it wasn't.

I'll keep digging when I have more time. I'll also look deeper in my emails.

J

There was an old dvd about the Stones 1972 tour which shows a short snippet of Brown Sugar which purports to be from the 1972 Boston show, but looks like it’s from one of the London 1973 shows