Another great video from the Yesterday's Papers youtube channel.

From the video description: "A week after the release of the Rolling Stones' "Aftermath", Melody Maker asks Brian Jones about his opinions on Mick Jagger, sitars, marriage, Andrew Oldham or Charlie Watts, among many other topics. He is even asked about Barbara Streisand (?!?!)"

Pretty interesting stuff!

[youtu.be]

Too bad he couldn't have done his experimentation with other instruments, AND continued evolving on guitar. He always seems intelligent what few serious interviews I've read. Thanks for posting.

Barbara Streisand was quite a sensation right about then, as a singer, cultural icon of sorts and a beautiful woman with a big nose. The Rolling Stones were direct competitors on top 10 radio. So it was a timely reference that probably doesn't really make sense nowadays.

jb

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jbwelda
Barbara Streisand was quite a sensation right about then, as a singer, cultural icon of sorts and a beautiful woman with a big nose. The Rolling Stones were direct competitors on top 10 radio. So it was a timely reference that probably doesn't really make sense nowadays.

jb

We forget what a jumble pop radio was in those days. It was actually glorious, and really opened you up to different styles.

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jbwelda
Barbara Streisand was quite a sensation right about then, as a singer, cultural icon of sorts and a beautiful woman with a big nose. The Rolling Stones were direct competitors on top 10 radio. So it was a timely reference that probably doesn't really make sense nowadays.

jb

Beauty is in the mind of the beholder (or is it said differently?). BS is absolutely not my perception of beauty . The likes of Brigitte Bardot in those days are still in my mind (I understood some of the Stones also had a crush on her). I would have prefered Brian's voice answering those questions.


I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

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24FPS
Too bad he couldn't have done his experimentation with other instruments, AND continued evolving on guitar.

I totally agree. He pretty much stopped caring about guitar around that time (66/67).

Hi there

The live footage that starts at 3.45 I have never seen before. Can someone identify where and when it was taken as it looks like 64/65 footage which is always quite rare. Would be interesting to see if there is more footage out there of that show.

Regards, Brendon from NZ

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Memo From Tina Turner

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24FPS
Too bad he couldn't have done his experimentation with other instruments, AND continued evolving on guitar.

I totally agree. He pretty much stopped caring about guitar around that time (66/67).

Does he even play guitar on Aftermath? Is that him on slide on Doncha Bother Me, or Keith? Slide was supposed to be Brian's exclusive territory, but I'm not sure he's playing it there.

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24FPS

Does he even play guitar on Aftermath? Is that him on slide on Doncha Bother Me, or Keith? Slide was supposed to be Brian's exclusive territory, but I'm not sure he's playing it there.

He did play guitar on Aftermath and it's him playing slide on DBM and MLH.

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His Majesty

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24FPS

Does he even play guitar on Aftermath? Is that him on slide on Doncha Bother Me, or Keith? Slide was supposed to be Brian's exclusive territory, but I'm not sure he's playing it there.

He did play guitar on Aftermath and it's him playing slide on DBM and MLH.

So this not true?

The strange guitar sound is) a 12-string with a slide on it. It's played slightly Oriental-ish. The track just needed something to make it twang. Otherwise, the song was quite vaudeville in a way. I wanted to add some nice bite to it. And it was just one of those things where someone walked in and, Look, it's an electric 12-string. It was some gashed-up job. No name on it. God knows where it came from. Or where it went. But I put it together with a bottleneck. Then we had a riff that tied the whole thing together. And I think we overdubbed onto that. Because I played an acoustic guitar as well.

- Keith Richards, 2002

In Youtube link below we can hear Brian playing slide on 12 string live in 1966 on Mother's Little Helper just as he did on the studio recording.





There is also a photo at Hollywood Bowl from same tour showing Brian with 12 string and a slide on his pinky.

There are two guitars playing the motif on the studio recording. One without slide and one with. Brian at the very least played the slide part. The 12 string guitar motif on Mother's Little Helper is very similar to Brian's 12 string guitar motif on Get off of My Cloud. A sign that not only did he play it on MLH, but that it was probably also his idea.

The Keith quote/claim about MLH comes from a period in early 2000's I think where he seemed to neglect to mention Brian in his memories. Even the bit about brand of guitar is probably wrong. It was most likely their Rickenbacker.

When asked about slide guitar on Aftermath Bill said "If there's slide there, it's Brian."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-07 17:51 by His Majesty.

OK...choose to believe Keef or to believe "His Majesty" who posts video that is no longer available as his proof.

Well, I know which one I would believe.

jb

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His Majesty
In Youtube link below we can hear Brian playing slide on 12 string live in 1966 on Mother's Little Helper just as he did on the studio recording.





There is also a photo at Hollywood Bowl from same tour showing Brian with 12 string and a slide on his pinky.

There are two guitars playing the motif on the studio recording. One without slide and one with. Brian at the very least played the slide part. The 12 string guitar motif on Mother's Little Helper is very similar to Brian's 12 string guitar motif on Get off of My Cloud. A sign that not only did he play it on MLH, but that it was probably also his idea.

The Keith quote/claim about MLH comes from a period in early 2000's I think where he seemed to neglect to mention Brian in his memories. Even the bit about brand of guitar is probably wrong. It was most likely their Rickenbacker.

When asked about slide guitar on Aftermath Bill said "If there's slide there, it's Brian."

We all know that Brian played it live (a bit more wonky). We also know that Keith didn't play slide in concert prior to 1969.

There were many Keith-parts he chose not to play in concert.

It does sound (to me, anyway) that Keith remember specifically that he did the slide in the studio, though.

Jbwelda: If there is one guy to trust about Brian and the 1960s Stones, it would be His Majesty.

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jbwelda
OK...choose to believe Keef or to believe "His Majesty" who posts video that is no longer available as his proof.

Well, I know which one I would believe.

jb

Your forgot Bill.

Keith never lies or mis-remembers?

Video is still available here, must be blocked in US for copyright reasons. Just seek out stones Honolulu gig from 66 to hear it anyway.

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DandelionPowderman


We all know that Brian played it live (a bit more wonky).

It's not more wonky as such, it's just without the thickening/doubling of none slide guitar.



Nothing stopping Keith playing the motif live without slide as per one of the 2 guitars if it was his part/idea. Brian went to the bother of playing it live with slide on 12 string because he had done so on studio version.

Maybe Keith just mis-remembered in 2002. A one time utterance about who played a part on a song from 1965 is not exactly a testimony of absolute fact. Reality is Keith played the basic upper octave melody heard coming in after first verse or whatever with Jack playing the main piano throughout.

Here he is in 1982 not mentioning Jack Nitzsche re LSTNT. Imagine if this was only time he talked about it. Some would just take it as fact that the piano is Keith. LOL.

"Yeah, I played piano on Let's Spend the Night Together, and then I overdubbed the guitar."

- Keith Richards, 1982

Keith's gospel. DO NOT QUESTION OR CONSIDER OTHER FACTORS!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-07 20:10 by His Majesty.

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jbwelda
OK...choose to believe Keef or to believe "His Majesty" who posts video that is no longer available as his proof.

Well, I know which one I would believe.

jb

I'm sure you read Keith' book "Life". Very enjoyable read, but .... not everything deserved the title "true".
The part that annoyed me most was that Keith allowed his ghost writer to tell that it was Mick Avory who played the drums at the Marquee Club on July 12 1962.
Mick Avory was n-e-v-e-r a member of the Rollin' Stones! He rehearsed with the pre-Stones only twice during the late Spring time in 1962, was asked by phone later if he could help out on that July 12 day, but soon after got a second call with "Thanks anyway, but we're fine with a drummer" (Tony Chapman turned up after all).
Nobody is perfect, but you can rely on His Majesty ...


I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman


We all know that Brian played it live (a bit more wonky).

It's not more wonky as such, it's just without the thickening/doubling of none slide guitar.



Nothing stopping Keith playing the motif live without slide as per one of the 2 guitars if it was his part/idea. Brian went to the bother of playing it live with slide on 12 string because he had done so on studio version.

Maybe Keith just mis-remembered in 2002. A one time utterance about who played a part on a song from 1965 is not exactly a testimony of absolute fact. Reality is Keith played the basic upper octave melody heard coming in after first verse or whatever with Jack playing the main piano throughout.

Here he is in 1982 not mentioning Jack Nitzsche re LSTNT. Imagine if this was only time he talked about it. Some would just take it as fact that the piano is Keith. LOL.

"Yeah, I played piano on Let's Spend the Night Together, and then I overdubbed the guitar."

- Keith Richards, 1982

Keith's gospel. DO NOT QUESTION OR CONSIDER OTHER FACTORS!

Here you're just guessing

Keith could have played the piano, but not on the final take.

And Brian is playing it less precise (frets) than the guitar on the studio version. That would be natural, though, as we hear only one concert version. Had we had several version to judge by this would have been easier.

That being said, Keith says a lot of bullshit. I don't know why he would specifically say he played an overdubbed slide and acoustic guitar, though.

Sounds like he added the slide to Brian's slide-less riff to me.

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georgie48

I'm sure you read Keith' book "Life". Very enjoyable read, but .... not everything deserved the title "true".

It must be true if Keef said it.

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DandelionPowderman

That being said, Keith says a lot of bullshit.

Keith only talks the truth and remembers correctly at all times.

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His Majesty

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georgie48

I'm sure you read Keith' book "Life". Very enjoyable read, but .... not everything deserved the title "true".

It must be true if Keef said it.

Well, I must rely on you now, but .... I spoke to Mick Avory in person when he was in Utrecht (Netherlands) way back in 2002 (I think it was around that time) when he performed with "the other" Kinks. Keith says (not to me though ) "he was", Mick Avory says "I wasn't". Heeeeelp ...
Maybe it was Ginger Baker

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-07 21:02 by georgie48.

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman

That being said, Keith says a lot of bullshit.

Keith only talks the truth and remembers correctly at all times.

That's how you interpret that quote?

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DandelionPowderman

Here you're just guessing

Keith could have played the piano, but not on the final take.

This tells me you haven't understood what I typed and why.

Keith DID play piano, but only the upper octave line which comes in later in song. The point is he failed to mention Jack in this instance, so say this were the only time he'd talked about it, someone like jbwelda would come along and take it as fact that it's just Keith playing piano.

If he can forget to mention Jack in relation to a part in 1982 him probably doing same with Brian in 2002 is not exactly surprising or odd or blah blah blah. Add in Keith's up and down personal angst about Brian and, well, yeah.

Re guitar MLH live, Brian playing a Keith lead line live? Nope, just not the done thing.


Why would Keith remember in such a way depends on loads of things, how he was asked being one. But, I showed he doesn't always include people who played parts in his memories of those parts.

...

Most simply, the MLH motif's similarity to Brian's part on GOOMC, Brian playing the part live with slide on 12 string in 1966 and Bill saying slide on Aftermath is Brian is more compelling proof than a one off quote by Keith 'says a lot of bullshit' Richards from 2002.


But, as always any and all Brian credits have to go through this wall of doubt and disbelief and require proof way beyond any other band members. There could literally be film of Brian playing it in studio and some would still refer to Keith's quote as the greater proof.

...

Back to Brian's 1966 Think-In...

Nice quote about Mick and right he was too.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-07 21:38 by His Majesty.

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DandelionPowderman

That's how you interpret that quote?

I was being jbwelda.

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman

Here you're just guessing

Keith could have played the piano, but not on the final take.

This tells me you haven't understood what I typed and why.

Keith DID play piano, but only the upper octave line which comes in later in song. The point is he failed to mention Jack in this instance, so say this were the only time he'd talked about it, someone like jbwelda would come along and take it as fact that it's just Keith playing piano.

If he can forget to mention Jack in relation to a part in 1982 him probably doing same with Brian in 2002 is not exactly surprising or odd or blah blah blah. Add in Keith's up and down personal angst about Brian and, well, yeah.

Re guitar MLH live, Brian playing a Keith lead line live? Nope, just not the done thing.


Why would Keith remember in such a way depends on loads of things, how he was asked being one. But, I showed he doesn't always include people who played parts in his memories of those parts.

...

Most simply, the MLH motif's similarity to Brian's part on GOOMC, Brian playing the part live with slide on 12 string in 1966 and Bill saying slide on Aftermath is Brian is more compelling proof than a one off quote by Keith 'says a lot of bullshit' Richards from 2002.


But, as always any and all Brian credits have to go through this wall of doubt and disbelief and require proof way beyond any other band members. There could literally be film of Brian playing it in studio and some would still refer to Keith's quote as the greater proof.

Gotcha, and I would have loved to find proof that it was indeed Brian playing.

However, the clip we have to go by (Honolulu) is thin, musically. It's off key and off frets. So is Bill's recollections (as proven numerous times).

I don't have a strong opinion about who played the riff, though. Could be Brian. Could be Keith.

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DandelionPowderman

Gotcha, and I would have loved to find proof that it was indeed Brian playing.

Similarity to Brian's part on GOOMC. Photos of Brian playing 12 string in RCA Studio in December 1965 when MLH was recorded. A comment from Bill who was there saying Brian played the slide on Aftermath. A recording of Brian playing the part with slide on 12 string live in 1966. A photo from Hollywood Bowl 1966 of Brian playing 12 string with slide on his pinky.

You and many others have accepted loads of other credits based on far less than this. As always it's different with Brian.

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DandelionPowderman

However, the clip we have to go by (Honolulu) is thin, musically. It's off key and off frets.

It's slide, of course it's off frets.

It being rougher is standard stones live music policy. His live recorder playing on Ruby Tuesday in 1967 is off key, you also using that as a counter argument it wasn't him on studio version?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-07 22:30 by His Majesty.

Pictures aren't proof enough for me. We don't know what Brian did with that 12 string. The attack on the studio version of MLH doesn't sound like that of GOOMC to me.

But I could be wrong.

The RT comparison is silly, as there are numerous parts we know Keith played in the studio that he left to the other guitar player to do live.

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DandelionPowderman
Pictures aren't proof enough for me. We don't know what Brian did with that 12 string. The attack on the studio version of MLH doesn't sound like that of GOOMC to me.

But I could be wrong.

The RT comparison is silly, as there are numerous parts we know Keith played in the studio that he left to the other guitar player to do live.

It's 2 guitars on MLH one with slide, of course it will sound different to GOOMC. The actual part/phrase itself is similar.

Not silly, you used roughness of live playing as a point of doubt re Brian playing on studio version.

That 'left to other guy' may apply to later, but not for riffs and lead lines in Brian era. By 1966 Keith played busy live, rhythm and lead in abundance except for specific motifs where Brian played his guitar lead/riffs as he had done on studio versions... GOOMC, The Last Time and seemingly... MLH.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-07 22:52 by His Majesty.

If I remember well, both Mick and Keith mentioned Brian's beautiful contribution to Ruby Tuesday with the recorder. I (somewhere in my pile of Stones recordings) have a 1967 live recording (Paris, France) where Brian plays absolutely brilliant on recorder! (like if it was his Swan Song). Ruby Tuesday is a Richards/Jones song, even Mick admits that.
And though I am a Rolling Stones fan at heart, Aftermath would not have gotten the status that it has without Brian's unique contributions. I have a studio outtake of f.i. TTLYFH (Satanic) without Brian's "tricks". Nice, but...
By the way, HM, I find Keno's overview (I have them piled in 7 alphabetic maps) very handy, but always triple check with Hoffman's data, Aeppli's data and Karbach/Bernson. Ans still questions remain.


I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

Keno's site and crediting is bad. Avoid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-09 15:26 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty
Keno's site snd crediting is bad. Avoid.

What is the meaning of "snd crediting" ?


I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town