Not sure if I agree with most of what the writer is saying here?
It was another time but most of these songs still endure the test of time.

[www.insidehook.com]

I have nothing to object to in that article. The writer is pretty much on the spot. If you interpret some of Jagger's early lyrics you might very well come to the conclusion that he is somewhat of a misogynist.
Which is a bit odd considering the fact that he is not exactly an incel. On the contrary. He has even called himself "lucky in love"...

Writer needs a sense of humor.

For example, The Stones aren't actually suggesting beating women at midnight - maybe Jimmy Page was.

Lots of tongue in cheek (and other places) humor.

Wow, she's got a real axe to grind by applying super-sensitive and thin-skinned beliefs to songs that people of all ages, genres, races, and genders dug danced to, and smiled while playing.

I appreciate her goals, and raise hell about those who do it today. But be careful of applying today's sensitivity to 50 years ago. When I wrote her about these, I pointed out that her heavy-handedness will serve to alienate those whose opinions she hopes to sway, because I suspect the people, and there are many, that agree with her, really do not care about the Rolling Stones.

stonesstein

Kick me like you did before
I can't even feel the pain no more
Rocks Off, 1972

Interesting that serial murder appears to be less controversial than the topics raised in the article...

Jeez. To me, this article falls under the heading of "Would you let your daughter date a Rolling Stone?" Yes, in today's sensibilities, whatever the fluck you wanna call it, themes and words in these songs sound what...salacious misogynist bad bad bad? They were written in terms of the time and culture. Learn your history folks. No one's making you listen to them. You have that choice and can listen or not. The only song here that, IMHO, would still possibly tick people off is CS Blues because of its bluntness. If one wants to get on about offensive words and themes, let's talk about rap and its depictions of violence and women being b*tches and ho's good for only one thing. The Stones, once daring, are safe as milk now. Their past is just that...past.

Funny, I don't think the writer is tendentious or hypercritical. I think she is pretty objective. "Needs a sense of humor" - she is reviewing song lyrics, not comedy material.
Maybe some people think the Rolling Stones are above criticism?

Hmm... yeah. Can't much argue with her, although I love all the songs she mentions, since I have grown up with them, and never thought about them having anything 'wrong', at least much, with them.

Trying to argue with her is doomed to fail - sooner or later. She talks in terms of today and, even more, of tomorrow. Even the idea of explaining like it was all done in a tongue-in-a-cheek or just being humorous. Yeah, it used to be fun, but any longer (so the argument will go and win). Nothing is sadder than a joke no one laughs at, just a case of showing one's weakness in judgment or a bad taste.

That's what my brains tell me, not what my heart says. I'm way too old to really think in different terms that I have used all of my life.

It will be interesting how all of this will be seen and judged in future (and we see a glimpse of that already). I don't think the Stones will have nothing to really worry about as far as their legacy goes - they have done enough of cultural history by now - but it will have a certain 'passed era' feel in them for sure. Like they were children and representation of the times and of the attitudes of those times and one needs a certain historical understanding to enjoy them aesthetically by a whole heart. I mean, people still respect Aristotle, although he thought about the female sex having not a mind capable for a proper intellectual work (lacking essentially a 'rational part of soul'). I don't think we need to worry about if the plague at Dartford railway station will be removed (unless Bill Wyman comes up with some new argument...)

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-24 02:59 by Doxa.

Compared to other music journalists who write about the Stones, at least she actually appears to know something about their music and their history. One glaring omission, I'm surprised she didn't throw in Midnight Rambler for good measure.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-24 06:03 by Sighunt.

Look at that stupid girl.

jb

YEAh ... they do crazy things ta get attention ...



ROCKMAN

'“You Gotta Move,” a blues number on which Mick Jagger puts on an embarrassing accent that has been described as “aural blackface.”'


I recall someone here on IORR writing something very similar to this not too long ago - could be that Bonnie Stiernberg picked up on it here.
Or maybe it's been described similarly by others in various places. Whatever the case, it is embarrassing and borderline mockery, and the tune itself is the weakest link on Sticky Fingers imo..

__________________________________________

Edit: Link from article to a review of Sticky Fingers (and other albums) in The Arts Fuse by Allen Michie: Sticky Fingers

"Jagger messes with the ancient “You Gotta Move” — it’s an almost clownish imitation of an old rural blues singer, like aural blackface".

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-24 08:01 by Hairball.

I quickly skimmed to see if Sister Morphine was on her list... It is not. So Stones druggy tunes are OK with her. Ok because today marijuana is mostly legalized and one or two states have made psilocybin mushrooms legal. The Stones slant on women and sex, these tunes are her Thang/

Never had those mushrooms but the one time I had real Peyote cactus was the bomb. "Between the Buttons" refers to peyote? At least this is what I used to hear.

Whatever the case, it is embarrassing and borderline mockery,

Yeah whats mockery about it ....
Bet it turned on a lotta white
people ta who Fred McDowell is and most likely inc Bonnie Stiernberg ...
I wonder if she has any of his albums ....



ROCKMAN

I was in a Stones tribute band and we did 'Star Star' sometimes, and it always went over well, but we were playing generally to an over-40 crowd who weren't weaned on pc.

One time, I was telling a friend about a great band from the Southern US, and mentioned they were 'black guys' (meaning they were soulful), and his younger girlfriend kinda chortled at that. Damn millennials.

It’s a well-written piece, I feel. However, I do tire of this constant reassessment of our past and that of others. Yes, there’s lyrics that wouldn’t pass the censor today, but we’ve evolved as people, and as such, so have our views. Jagger wouldn’t pen those Brown Sugar lines today, of course. Do I, on a personal level, find these lyrics offensive? No, not at all. Would I write them, though? No.

It's not particularly well written, it's too obtuse and that is revealed from the writer's opening salvo against Brown Sugar - 'despite its clumsy lyrics and blatant fetishization of Black women'- when in fact the lyrics are not in the least clumsy, and the 'fetishization' is not simply of 'black women' but of sex, smack, sado masochism, cunnilungus, power, subjugation and more... ' To write or to sing about these things does not mean promoting or proselytizing them, but of evoking and dramatising them. That's a crucial differentiation the current age of judgmental finger-pointing puritanical commissars of identity politics get wrong, wrong, wrong. They're like the Stasi in blindfolds, with a Mary Whitehouse facemask. What do they DO at night? Trash small businesses in Portland? The rest of it is po-faced hilarious, esp when you get to Short & Curlies, while the 'aural blackface' line is just bullshit. There are valid objections here in terms of personal taste - in which case, fine, don't play the @#$%& songs on your handheld device, but otherwise, I'd suggest these judgments and attitudes will date faster than an Eighties mullet with highlights.

I think 'Luxury' is probably a good example of what she means by 'aural blackface' though:

'Mi datta nidda noo dress' is pretty embarrassing...

Lets hope she dont do the hack on pre-war blues songs ....
Like what ya say ... What do they do at night ....

gotta remember that one .... HHHaaa fanks Max ,..



ROCKMAN

I've never felt Brown Sugar to be an exercise in the 'fetishisation' of black women.

Yeah Al ... then ya got that gang of folks
who say ... Who cares about da lyrics I only listen to da music ...



ROCKMAN

The article tells us that the rolling stones songs in 2021 are still perceived by some as bad/ nasty/naughty ; Thank you.
Rockandroll,
Mops

rolling stones songs in 2021 are still perceived by some as bad/ nasty/naughty ;


Hey YEAH ... never fought of it dat way .... thanks



ROCKMAN

With the 50th anniversary of Sticky Fingers, it was not surprising to me (especially with cancel culture now in vogue), that music journalists would be re-visiting the Stones big hit on Sticky Fingers "Brown Sugar":

[faroutmagazine.co.uk]

Only 15? And only one from Voodoo Lounge?
Guess somebody just listen to a random playlist on Spotify.

That's it no more rocknroll ...
No more Rhythm an Blues .......
It's only Pat Boone records from now on ...



ROCKMAN

Quote
Sighunt
With the 50th anniversary of Sticky Fingers, it was not surprising to me (especially with cancel culture now in vogue), that music journalists would be re-visiting the Stones big hit on Sticky Fingers "Brown Sugar":

[faroutmagazine.co.uk]

Yep; and that's when I switch-off!

Sweet Black Angel and When The Whip Comes Down not included is a surprise.

The stuff about cultural appropriation just made her look uneducated about the roots of music.

C'mon now, let's not diss Pat Boone. Listen to his covers of Tutti Fruitti and Long Tall Sally and you can hear the essence of real rock'n'roll...not. You ain't lived until you hear Boone's "In A Metal Mood: No More Mister Nice Guy" album and its covers of heavy metal and assorted classic rock songs, an attempt to make him relevant to a new generation. An album right up there with William Shatner's rock albums. Boone was cast back in the 1950s as the alternative to Elvis, Little Richard and others deemed too wild for America's youth. Hence his cover versions of r&b tunes.

She has an angle, I admit that. That is the premise for her writing. But, in fact, you can study Jagger's lyrics from different angles. You might not like it but that doesn't mean she's totally wrong.
The alternative would be to dismiss every criticism that isn't ingratiating.