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Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: April 17, 2021 22:13

Rule 101 :
never release something that puts your band in an unfavorable light.
In that respect CS BLUES will remain in vault limbo forever.

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: April 18, 2021 00:14

Quote
dcba
Rule 101 :
never release something that puts your band in an unfavorable light.
In that respect CS BLUES will remain in vault limbo forever.

For me the Stones are an unfavorable band ...that's why I liked them....they did all what my mama disproved confused smiley

__________________________

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: shadooby ()
Date: April 18, 2021 00:37

Any one who's watched this the entire way thru will know why it will never be released unedited. Although, I'm all for it.

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: April 19, 2021 19:10

Quote
dcba
Rule 101 :
never release something that puts your band in an unfavorable light.
In that respect CS BLUES will remain in vault limbo forever.


The Rolling Stones have made a career out of releasing stuff that put them "in an unfavorable light". Its what they do, or at least what they did.

You don't think they let the film be made because they were afraid of being shown in an unfavorable light, do you?

jb

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: MisterO ()
Date: April 19, 2021 20:07

As a diehard Stones fan, I have to honest. CS Blues was the most anti climatic event I ever attended.

Here is the background. It was the late 70's when some friends and I heard that it would be being shown at the Whitney Museum in Manhattan. We cut school took the bus in and waited on line for six hours in a heat wave to view the film.

The sound quality was awful, the movie had no plot. The big moment when Keith and Bobby threw the TV out the window looked like a stunt rather than something spontaneous that was caught on film.

In a word....unmemorable.

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: April 19, 2021 20:15

Quote
jbwelda

You don't think they let the film be made because they were afraid of being shown in an unfavorable light, do you?

Some actors nowadays don't wanna be reminded that they've made P*rn* movies as a student due to the money ....

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: April 19, 2021 20:23

The only scenes worth re-watching, for me, in CS blues, is the concert footage. Even thhough they're not that professionally filmed, it's terrific, like when Jagger comes jumping out of that tongue in Los Angeles, when they launch into Brown Sugar.

It's a bit like Dylan's Renaldo & Clara; some terrific scenes, but 80% of it is a drag getting though.

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: shadooby ()
Date: April 20, 2021 01:10

Quote
Erik_Snow
The only scenes worth re-watching, for me, in CS blues, is the concert footage. Even thhough they're not that professionally filmed, it's terrific, like when Jagger comes jumping out of that tongue in Los Angeles, when they launch into Brown Sugar.

It's a bit like Dylan's Renaldo & Clara; some terrific scenes, but 80% of it is a drag getting though.

Perhaps you weren't smoking enough graaass?

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: April 20, 2021 01:20

Quote
Erik_Snow
The only scenes worth re-watching, for me, in CS blues, is the concert footage. Even thhough they're not that professionally filmed, it's terrific, like when Jagger comes jumping out of that tongue in Los Angeles, when they launch into Brown Sugar.


Ever see 1 + 1? How about Performance? They were carrying on a proud tradition.

There is something flawed about pretty much everything they have put out, film-wise anyway.

jb

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: Sighunt ()
Date: April 20, 2021 03:00

Quote
dcba
Rule 101 :
never release something that puts your band in an unfavorable light.
In that respect CS BLUES will remain in vault limbo forever.

thumbs up
Its been quite a long while since I read Tony Sanchez's book Up and Down with the Rolling Stones but from what I remember (help me clarify if I'm wrong here), he and the Stones went to a screening of @#$%& Blues and Jagger's reaction at the time was that the film was just too hot and that it wouldn't see commercial release while the Stones were a working band.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-20 03:01 by Sighunt.

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: April 20, 2021 03:02

The best part of the movie is when Mick is playing It's Funny.

I always thought that was fantastic.




Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: April 20, 2021 10:41

All Down The Line is my best moment...that music snippet is incredible...if only...

The rest is extremely boring

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: April 20, 2021 10:53

Quote
Eleanor Rigby
All Down The Line is my best moment...that music snippet is incredible...if only...

The rest is extremely boring

Yes, that snippet, it could had been the whole movie, I'd still go to the cinema just for that 1 minute

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: April 20, 2021 11:44

Quote
Erik_Snow
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
All Down The Line is my best moment...that music snippet is incredible...if only...

The rest is extremely boring

Yes, that snippet, it could had been the whole movie, I'd still go to the cinema just for that 1 minute

Haha...maybe..but i might fall asleep and miss it.

It is pure rock n roll...imagine a full concert like that...puts L&G to shame

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: April 20, 2021 11:48

I meant a cinema-screening that lasted for 1 minute, Eleanor !

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: April 20, 2021 12:24

Quote
Erik_Snow
I meant a cinema-screening that lasted for 1 minute, Eleanor !

Ok...you buy the popcorn

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: April 20, 2021 14:03

No problem, but bring a funnel, it's gonna be a rush

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: April 20, 2021 14:57

Quote
jbwelda


The Rolling Stones have made a career out of releasing stuff that put them "in an unfavorable light". It's what they do, or at least what they did.

Ever since 1989, the comeback and the restless "normaliation" of the band by Jagger, releasing stuff that put them "in an unfavorable light" is out of question.

Quote
jbwelda
You don't think they let the film be made because they were afraid of being shown in an unfavorable light, do you?

jb

CS BLUES was perceived as a gigantic breach of trust by the band. First it was delivered with a long delay (3 years) which was enough to be considered as non-pro behaviour by Frank from the band.
econd it showed Keith injecting heroin which was more than a "no-no".
Third it included staged material like the airplane orgy.

Can you imagine Jagger's disappointment and wrath? Around 71 he saw "The Americans" he liked the book very much.
In 72 he hired Frank who was perceived as the equivalent of Jack Kerouak with a camera. And 3 years later (!) all that Kerouak could come up with was gutter journalism. Geraldo Rivera on 16mm film stock.

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: April 20, 2021 15:34

Quote
Erik_Snow
No problem, but bring a funnel, it's gonna be a rush

I'll bring beer then smiling smiley

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: April 20, 2021 18:43

Quote
dcba


CS BLUES was perceived as a gigantic breach of trust by the band. First it was delivered with a long delay (3 years) which was enough to be considered as non-pro behaviour by Frank from the band.
econd it showed Keith injecting heroin which was more than a "no-no".
Third it included staged material like the airplane orgy.

Can you imagine Jagger's disappointment and wrath? Around 71 he saw "The Americans" he liked the book very much.
In 72 he hired Frank who was perceived as the equivalent of Jack Kerouak with a camera. And 3 years later (!) all that Kerouak could come up with was gutter journalism. Geraldo Rivera on 16mm film stock.


The thing is, they participated in the staged parts and they let cameras roll when they were being indiscrete with the drugs. I do not think they viewed it as a breach of trust at all, it was what was to be expected, and I think they changed their collective minds (as if there were such a thing) when faced with drug charges and the movie showed them in an unfavorable light, something they previously traded on. They were "bad boys" until the consequences of that became too real and then they nixed the movie in a move to sanitize their past.

I think what you are saying is historical revision. Where did you get these ideas anyhow, any specific book or magazine article you can cite?

For jagger to claim disappointment is kind of like what they imply by the phrase "I think you doth protest too much", I think it was Shakespere who wrote that.

Personally I don't think they should have ever played Midnite Rambler after Altamont, that should have been enough of a wake up call that they would worry about their karma coming back to them with violent content and all that satanic stuff. That only happened years later and only in selective ways as you point out.

Release of the CS Blues movie would not have tarnished their rep anymore than it had been by their very blatant actions ever since the days of ALO management and the attendant publicity machine.

jb

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: April 21, 2021 01:10

The weird thing about the All Down the Line snippet is that it was filmed behind Charley.There are no camera angles like that in the crappy Ladies and Gentlemen.So I guess Frank’s people filmed it.I wonder if Bill Wyman has any complete co certain from the tot.

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Date: April 21, 2021 03:59

It'll never see a release for a few reasons, imo:

1. Forget the name... think about the content!
2. Not enough mainstream demand for this (unlike 'Exile' which was released in conjunction with a reissue of the legendary album)

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: Erik_Snow ()
Date: April 21, 2021 08:00

Quote
Taylor1
The weird thing about the All Down the Line snippet is that it was filmed behind Charley.There are no camera angles like that in the crappy Ladies and Gentlemen.So I guess Frank’s people filmed it.I wonder if Bill Wyman has any complete co certain from the tot.

There's several live clips there, filmed by Frank. All Down The Line comes from either Seattle or San Francisco according to Zentgraf.

The ragged "Happy" live clip I also like. If one could get a hold of the masters, and just include all the concert footage outtakes, and nevermind the rest - now that would be the kind of document I'd care about.

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: April 21, 2021 10:53

Quote
jbwelda

The thing is, they participated in the staged parts and they let cameras roll when they were being indiscrete with the drugs. I do not think they viewed it as a breach of trust at all, it was what was to be expected, and I think they changed their collective minds (as if there were such a thing) when faced with drug charges and the movie showed them in an unfavorable light, something they previously traded on. They were "bad boys" until the consequences of that became too real and then they nixed the movie in a move to sanitize their past.

jb

The film was finalized in 75 just around the time Mick had a hard time getting a working visa for Keith for the upcoming tour. And Frank was about to present hard evidence that the guitarist was a junkie.
Can you imagine the red light flashing in Mick's head?

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Date: April 21, 2021 10:54

Quote
dcba
Quote
jbwelda

The thing is, they participated in the staged parts and they let cameras roll when they were being indiscrete with the drugs. I do not think they viewed it as a breach of trust at all, it was what was to be expected, and I think they changed their collective minds (as if there were such a thing) when faced with drug charges and the movie showed them in an unfavorable light, something they previously traded on. They were "bad boys" until the consequences of that became too real and then they nixed the movie in a move to sanitize their past.

jb

The film was finalized in 75 just around the time Mick had a hard time getting a working visa for Keith for the upcoming tour. And Frank was about to present hard evidence that the guitarist was a junkie.
Can you imagine the red light flashing in Mick's head?

I don't think Mick was involved with that smiling smiley

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: April 21, 2021 11:28

Quote
jbwelda
Quote
dcba


CS BLUES was perceived as a gigantic breach of trust by the band. First it was delivered with a long delay (3 years) which was enough to be considered as non-pro behaviour by Frank from the band.
econd it showed Keith injecting heroin which was more than a "no-no".
Third it included staged material like the airplane orgy.

Can you imagine Jagger's disappointment and wrath? Around 71 he saw "The Americans" he liked the book very much.
In 72 he hired Frank who was perceived as the equivalent of Jack Kerouak with a camera. And 3 years later (!) all that Kerouak could come up with was gutter journalism. Geraldo Rivera on 16mm film stock.


The thing is, they participated in the staged parts and they let cameras roll when they were being indiscrete with the drugs. I do not think they viewed it as a breach of trust at all, it was what was to be expected, and I think they changed their collective minds (as if there were such a thing) when faced with drug charges and the movie showed them in an unfavorable light, something they previously traded on. They were "bad boys" until the consequences of that became too real and then they nixed the movie in a move to sanitize their past.

I think what you are saying is historical revision. Where did you get these ideas anyhow, any specific book or magazine article you can cite?

For jagger to claim disappointment is kind of like what they imply by the phrase "I think you doth protest too much", I think it was Shakespere who wrote that.

Personally I don't think they should have ever played Midnite Rambler after Altamont, that should have been enough of a wake up call that they would worry about their karma coming back to them with violent content and all that satanic stuff. That only happened years later and only in selective ways as you point out.

Release of the CS Blues movie would not have tarnished their rep anymore than it had been by their very blatant actions ever since the days of ALO management and the attendant publicity machine.

jb

Interesting thoughts here. I also think that they exactly knew what they were doing when CS BLUES was filmed. That it was a 'logical' continuum to keep 'bad boy' image on, something they had learned from Loog Oldham. They wanted to share some of that decadent rock and roll tour life style. Yeah, the days to play with violence and devil were over after Altamont, an era finished in GIMME SHELTER movie, but they were these crazy partying, wild, hedonistic badasses in their private lives. Film's worth of stuff there for sure. Sounded cool in a theory.

But was Frank's document with its staged scenes frank too much? That is showed them in a light that simply wasn't favourable for them any longer? There was no glamour, not even coolness. No, more like an endless boredom and tireness that was tried to compansate with drug-taking and mostly childish gestures (like throwing a television out of balcony). Frank's camera captured nicely the idiocy of it all. I wouldn't be surprised that Mick and the rest simply realized that 'no shit we are gonna release this - we look stupid. All of our mystery and myth will die off. Better leave it to people hear stories about all of that and imagine the rest than let them see it'.

Add there the point made by jbwelda that probably showing drug-use so freely wasn't any longer such a wise move career-wise. Too much trouble, legal hassles with visas and all that (and Keith getting busted all the time).

Personallly I think CS Blues is an unique document of the times, a masterpiece. Frank did a great job. Probably - with his non-compromised documentaric vision - too great.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-21 11:33 by Doxa.

Re: CS BLUES .. Film's Title Alone Assures That It Will Never Be Released
Posted by: Mariuana ()
Date: April 21, 2021 14:41

I think they thought CS Blues should not be released after they got in trouble with getting visa for their Pacific Tour. First Australia initially did not want to let them in, then Mick was not allowed to Japan because of drug convictions and their touring schedule was pretty much messed up. They lost great amount of money too. I recall reading the Japanese leg was cancelled when all the costly preparations were made and tickets sold out. One thing is to maintain bad boy image, another is when you lose huge money over it and can not work. Probably that was when they decided to slow it down a bit, at least for public release.

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