Tell Me :
Talk
Definitely, Out of control is fantastic .........
I understand. They have some good songs amongst VOODOO-BRIDGES-BANG but absolutely are no where near what they were in 1983 yet alone 1973.
No.
yeah me too course i’m just a lonely fan boy.
Rubin produced the only Mick's good solo record...and it's no coincidence!
During the sessions there was the right tension...no yes man!
Imho Rubin (or George Drakoulias) would have done a great job with VL and i'm pretty sure they would not have accepted that muffled/sterilized sound and "Sweethearts Together" instead of "The Storm"!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-02 09:38 by KRiffhard.
Sound on Wondering Spirit and VL is more or less the same.
Quality of songs too: there are no JJF or Shelters on Spirit either.
Tough job to produce a Stones album.
You know you have millions of Stones fans in the world. And you know you have BILLIONS of music consumers who probably don't even know who the Stones are.
What do you do?
The safe choice is to target your fan base. But the fan base wants the Let it Bleeds, the Exiles ...
The second safe choice is to follow the trends. You loose some fans, but you might conquer a o.ooo1 % of the rest of the BILLIONS of music consumers
Both VL and Babylon are a sort of compromise between the above.
The compromise in VL is in the sound. It's a sort of "classic" sound revisited. Amps, mics and guitars could be the same they used in the early 70s, but they sound modern.
I am not against updating the classic sound. But on VL it is done the wrong way. The Fraboni tracks from Babylon - for instance - sound modern and wonderful.
As I see it, the dynamics are the greatest asset of the band. They play electric and loud, but deep down they function like a classic orchestra: shifts in tempo, different layers of instruments, dynamics, crescendos etc.
If you capture all this, you got at least a very good Stones album.
Start compressing the sound too much and replacing the natural dynamics of the band with studio tricks (dramatic quiet/soft shifts a la Nirvana, no more room sound - the guitar of the Worst sounds as if your were listening from the plectrum!) and you squeeze the life out of the band's sound!
C
I think it's closer to MO : a big live sound with a giant drum sound... courtesy Don Smith who recorded both albums.
And if that sound worked OK for Steve Jordan on M.O. it doesn't work at all for Charlie Watts. A "Bonhamesque" drum sound doesn't quite fit him.
I thought Don Was vetoed on omitting the experimental stuff that Mick and Keith wanted to include on VL - hence Was acted as anything but a 'yes-man'.
Thats not the point. Neither party wanted to repeat the experience. Rubin said Jagger was so surrounded by yes-men that his ego couldnt deal with a producer telling him that the work he was bringing to the studio wasnt that good and that he was capable of better. Imagine Keith's reaction to that criticism.
Should they have done a Spector and forced him to work at gunpoint?
(Don Was is) definitely anti-groove. Charlie and I worked on a lot of groove tunes that never made it on to the record. That was the one thing I was slightly disappointed by.
- Mick Jagger, May 1994
I'm certainly not anti-groove, just anti-groove without substance, in the context of this album. They had a number of great grooves. But it was like, OK, what goes on top of it? Where does it go? I just felt that it's not what people were looking for from the Stones. I was looking for a sign that they can great real serious about this, still play better than anybody and write better than anybody.
- Don Was, May 1994
It's very much a kind of time-and-place album. In that way I was quite pleased with the results. But there were a lot of things that we wrote for Voodoo Lounge that Don (Was) steered us away from: groove songs, African influences and things like that. And he steered us away very clear of all that. And I think it was a mistake... He tried to remake Exile on Main Street or something like that. Plus, the engineer (Don Smith) was also trying to do the same thing. Their mind-set about it was just too retro. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it inherently, but they went over the top; they'd gone too far... I didn't really fight it in the end. I gave up because there was no point in it. I think both Charlie and I didn't really like it, but we could see that that was the direction you could go, and it might be successful. I don't think it really was that successful, because I don't think there's any point in having these over-retro references. I think it was an opportunity missed to go in another direction, which would have been more unusual, a little more radical, although it's always going to sound like the Rolling Stones.
- Mick Jagger, 1995
[www.timeisonourside.com]
He was so right!!!
What Was said, and then stated, gives Mick's words a lot more weight: "in the context of this album," which pretty much solidifies what Mick stated about the retro bit and being steered very clear away from what they wanted to do, and then Was says "I just felt that it's not what people were looking for from the Stones" - think back to Miss You and Emotional Rescue, things the Stones felt like doing. Considering how Miss You seemed to alienate some fans, does that seem like the Stones were giving the people what they were looking for? Hell no. As well as a number of other things - trendy or not - from that era, they did what they wanted to do. Sure, Lies is very punk, but Respectable... Chuck Berry with a punk attitude - as if that's not already Chuck Berry - rooted in old school while pissing all over the walls of the new school.
"In the context of the album." I certainly have felt, based on the bootlegged leftovers from the VL sessions, that musically, and maybe this is probably where Mick was going with what he stated, they left some great music off the album... considering the context of the album as we know it. As in, when I first heard the boots I thought WHATTHEFUCK, WHYYYYYYY?
What Was said makes it seem like Mick and Keith listened to what Kimsey compiled for TATTOO YOU and Mick said to Keith, "Youknowwhut, Keith. Keith, that one with the keyboard, da-nah-naah-na-nowwww, youknowthatone, 'Wonder Why' or whatever it's called, that's a good one to give to the people, what they expect to hear even though, you know, they don't know how early it's from, gimmim' whut they want, youknowwhutImean."
Keith: "Ha ha ha ha ha haggghhhhh yeah, I meannnn, ehhhhh, there's Charlie, Bill, the whole sink, man. Is Ronnie on that?"
Mick: "I dunno. Was it that guy from the country?"
Keith: "That's it. Wayne Perkins' Cadillac."
Of course, what Mick said at the end clearly provides his fuel for what went on to be with BRIDGES, which I like a lot more than VOODOO and maybe it's because of how Mick stated what happened with VOODOO and what he hoped to do - and that includes how Keith went with what Mick wanted to do as well as had Fraboni for his tracks. BRIDGES worked. So what if some of the songs are whatever, it has life to it.
...try this VL!!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-03 12:25 by KRiffhard.
Me too!
Bits of Suck on the Jugular sound horribly out of tune to me, making the track unlistenable.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
EddieByword
()
Date: April 2, 2021 00:37
Quote
rollmopsQuote
HairballQuote
Stoneage
You Got Me Rocking is their only post 81 warhorse. At 15th place on their setlist top list. Played 448 times on tour.
[www.setlist.fm]
A bit embarrassing - not only a horrible tune, but also the fact they've tried to force-feed it while most in attendance give it the thumbs down.
That said, can't think of any other post '81 tunes that are truly warhose worthy - maybe their cover of Harlem Shuffle should have been played more, but alas it's a cover...
Maybe "Out of Control"; good lyrics, Temptations' musical roots, great bipolar rythm change with kickass accelaration on loud keith's guitar riffing with Mick's fantastic harmonica rock out.
Rockandroll,
Mops
Definitely, Out of control is fantastic .........
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
shadooby
()
Date: April 2, 2021 02:18
Huh...wait...what...I loved every bit of Voodoo Lounge.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: April 2, 2021 02:22
Quote
Silver DaggerQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
Silver DaggerQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
Silver Dagger
Unfortunately with the exception of the brilliant Thru And Thru and the OKish I Go Wild, everything after the first 5 songs is utter rubbish and an embarrassment. Honestly, put any of those songs up even next to the rockers on Emotional Rescue and you'll know what I'm talking about. They ain't no roll. And not even no rock for that matter.
The songs that have stemmed from those sessions on the recent FF boot would have made VL a far stronger album.
Tracks 2 and 3 are rubbish and track 5 is just flake!
Love Is Strong, The Worst, Moon Is Up, Out Of Tears, I Go Wild, Baby Break It Down, Thru And Thru and Mean Disposition... that alone is a pretty damn good LP.
Moon Is Up, Baby Break It Up, Mean Disposition, Out Of Tears - are you kidding me. This is the band that made Exile On Main Street, Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers and they are stumbling into their old age. Really, give it up if you can't be tough any more. These songs are lame. It's old man's rock. I don't know when you first got into the band but I expect a hell of of a lot more.
You're saying that about those songs? Those are LET IT BLEED compared to quite a few others on VOODOO yet alone after. Be "tough"? That's ridiculous.
Each to their own. No point arguing with taste in that case. Just giving my opinion but it does seem to echo a common feeling amongst older Stones fans at least that they are spent force creatively. I guess if you saw them in 73 you might feel the same so excuse my age..
I understand. They have some good songs amongst VOODOO-BRIDGES-BANG but absolutely are no where near what they were in 1983 yet alone 1973.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: April 2, 2021 02:33
Some Girls is overated.It has a few great songs,Beast of Burden,Some Girls, Shattered,but Lies ,Respectible, Far Away Eyes and the gross When thewhip Comes down are mediocre at best. Out of Control , Anybody Seen My Baby,Slipping Away,Mixed Emotions, Almost Hear You Sigh,Out of Control,Blinded ByRainbows, Saint Of Me,Gunface, Sweet Hearts Together are better.And She Was Hot,especially the extended version,is a great song.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: April 2, 2021 03:14
How can people seriously argue that such-and-such a producer would have resulted in a better album? How can you possibly know or predict that about individuals you dont know?
Rubin worked with Jagger on Wandering Spirit. Its a good record, but he's on record as saying he has no wish to ever repeat the experience. Not hiring him for VL or any record thereafter is hardly the Stones' fault.
The album is overlong basically because by their own admission they crammed a few extras on there as they hadnt made a new record in five years (the longest gap ever at that point - those were the days, eh? By that yardstick, the next album will probably have about 30 songs on it.....)
Rubin worked with Jagger on Wandering Spirit. Its a good record, but he's on record as saying he has no wish to ever repeat the experience. Not hiring him for VL or any record thereafter is hardly the Stones' fault.
The album is overlong basically because by their own admission they crammed a few extras on there as they hadnt made a new record in five years (the longest gap ever at that point - those were the days, eh? By that yardstick, the next album will probably have about 30 songs on it.....)
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: April 2, 2021 04:54
Quote
Taylor1
Some Girls is overated.It has a few great songs,Beast of Burden,Some Girls, Shattered,but Lies ,Respectible, Far Away Eyes and the gross When thewhip Comes down are mediocre at best. Out of Control , Anybody Seen My Baby,Slipping Away,Mixed Emotions, Almost Hear You Sigh,Out of Control,Blinded ByRainbows, Saint Of Me,Gunface, Sweet Hearts Together are better...
No.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
Natlanta
()
Date: April 2, 2021 05:58
Quote
shadooby
Huh...wait...what...I loved every bit of Voodoo Lounge.
yeah me too course i’m just a lonely fan boy.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
floodonthepage
()
Date: April 2, 2021 06:16
At the time, I was very excited about the release of Voodoo Lounge.
Having just become a fan in 1989, Voodoo Lounge was the first album I bought on the day it was released. I think I bought Flashpoint a few weeks after its release.
For years I'd say my least played Stones album has been Dirty Work or Their Satanic Majesties Request.
Now, it's probably Voodoo Lounge.
VL does strike me as somewhat of a "wasted opportunity", but I agree with a comment in another thread that Dirty Work, too, seems like it could have been improved upon by some of the session tracks we've now heard. Honestly, Undercover and Steel Wheels could have been better too with some of their respective outtakes included....though both Undercover and Steel Wheels are far better albums IMHO than Dirty Work or Voodoo Lounge.
Voodoo Lounge, in hindsight, just seems like their first safe album. An album that kind of tucks in for protection. Even Dirty Work, which doesn't really take any chances either, still has some dynamo to it (albeit 80s synth dynamo) that VL just doesn't have.
VL plays more like a rock record than a rock and roll record. Much of the roll having departed with Wyman. Some roll returned with Babylon, and even with Bigger Bang, though I think Babylon is the best of the three, minus Anybody Seen My Baby and the ill-advised Markie sample. Fortunately I have the "No Biz" edit in my collection. I love some Biz Markie, but that idea didn't work IMHO....and then to re-create it on stage during the tour...meh.
As for the idea of You Got Me Rocking as a "warhorse"...I respectfully say no way. Regardless of what the stats say, that song simply doesn't come close to being a warhorse. As someone put it earlier in this thread, the lyrics aren't great and it also has a very bland, pedestrian sound. The whole album doesn't really sound that good, actually.
Naturally I'll keep it in my collection. They are my favorite band after all. But these days I'd listen to Dirty Work (or Satanic Majesties) over VL, and never thought I'd say that.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-02 18:57 by floodonthepage.
Having just become a fan in 1989, Voodoo Lounge was the first album I bought on the day it was released. I think I bought Flashpoint a few weeks after its release.
For years I'd say my least played Stones album has been Dirty Work or Their Satanic Majesties Request.
Now, it's probably Voodoo Lounge.
VL does strike me as somewhat of a "wasted opportunity", but I agree with a comment in another thread that Dirty Work, too, seems like it could have been improved upon by some of the session tracks we've now heard. Honestly, Undercover and Steel Wheels could have been better too with some of their respective outtakes included....though both Undercover and Steel Wheels are far better albums IMHO than Dirty Work or Voodoo Lounge.
Voodoo Lounge, in hindsight, just seems like their first safe album. An album that kind of tucks in for protection. Even Dirty Work, which doesn't really take any chances either, still has some dynamo to it (albeit 80s synth dynamo) that VL just doesn't have.
VL plays more like a rock record than a rock and roll record. Much of the roll having departed with Wyman. Some roll returned with Babylon, and even with Bigger Bang, though I think Babylon is the best of the three, minus Anybody Seen My Baby and the ill-advised Markie sample. Fortunately I have the "No Biz" edit in my collection. I love some Biz Markie, but that idea didn't work IMHO....and then to re-create it on stage during the tour...meh.
As for the idea of You Got Me Rocking as a "warhorse"...I respectfully say no way. Regardless of what the stats say, that song simply doesn't come close to being a warhorse. As someone put it earlier in this thread, the lyrics aren't great and it also has a very bland, pedestrian sound. The whole album doesn't really sound that good, actually.
Naturally I'll keep it in my collection. They are my favorite band after all. But these days I'd listen to Dirty Work (or Satanic Majesties) over VL, and never thought I'd say that.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-02 18:57 by floodonthepage.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: April 2, 2021 08:48
Quote
Gazza
How can people seriously argue that such-and-such a producer would have resulted in a better album? How can you possibly know or predict that about individuals you dont know?
Rubin worked with Jagger on Wandering Spirit. Its a good record, but he's on record as saying he has no wish to ever repeat the experience. Not hiring him for VL or any record thereafter is hardly the Stones' fault.
The album is overlong basically because by their own admission they crammed a few extras on there as they hadnt made a new record in five years (the longest gap ever at that point - those were the days, eh? By that yardstick, the next album will probably have about 30 songs on it.....)
Rubin produced the only Mick's good solo record...and it's no coincidence!
During the sessions there was the right tension...no yes man!
Imho Rubin (or George Drakoulias) would have done a great job with VL and i'm pretty sure they would not have accepted that muffled/sterilized sound and "Sweethearts Together" instead of "The Storm"!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-02 09:38 by KRiffhard.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: April 2, 2021 11:55
I think the relative failure of VL had several reasons :
- both Mick and Keef had somehow dried up the creative well with their solo albums.
- it was the very first time they cut an album without Bill. No matter what they could have said at the time it certainly put them off balance.
- Don Was entered the picture and as starstruck as he was he certainly said "yes that's great!" more often than he should have.
- after the terrific success of the SW album and tour, maybe maybe the band was a tad cocky for the VL sessions. Like "hey nothing can put us down".
The recent release of 4 new VL tracks made me re-assess the Vigotone sets and frankly there's some tedious music on it. Imho "The Worst" would have been a lovely B-side "sleeper" but frankly putting it on the album?
Otoh all the new B2B material that surfaced this year is fresh and exciting.
- both Mick and Keef had somehow dried up the creative well with their solo albums.
- it was the very first time they cut an album without Bill. No matter what they could have said at the time it certainly put them off balance.
- Don Was entered the picture and as starstruck as he was he certainly said "yes that's great!" more often than he should have.
- after the terrific success of the SW album and tour, maybe maybe the band was a tad cocky for the VL sessions. Like "hey nothing can put us down".
The recent release of 4 new VL tracks made me re-assess the Vigotone sets and frankly there's some tedious music on it. Imho "The Worst" would have been a lovely B-side "sleeper" but frankly putting it on the album?
Otoh all the new B2B material that surfaced this year is fresh and exciting.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
Bjorn
()
Date: April 2, 2021 12:08
First half is fine. The second half would not have been saved by songs like The storm and You got it made. That´s how I see it.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: April 2, 2021 13:13
Quote
KRiffhardQuote
Gazza
How can people seriously argue that such-and-such a producer would have resulted in a better album? How can you possibly know or predict that about individuals you dont know?
Rubin worked with Jagger on Wandering Spirit. Its a good record, but he's on record as saying he has no wish to ever repeat the experience. Not hiring him for VL or any record thereafter is hardly the Stones' fault.
The album is overlong basically because by their own admission they crammed a few extras on there as they hadnt made a new record in five years (the longest gap ever at that point - those were the days, eh? By that yardstick, the next album will probably have about 30 songs on it.....)
Rubin produced the only Mick's good solo record...and it's no coincidence!
During the sessions there was the right tension...no yes man!
Imho Rubin (or George Drakoulias) would have done a great job with VL and i'm pretty sure they would not have accepted that muffled/sterilized sound and "Sweethearts Together" instead of "The Storm"!
Sound on Wondering Spirit and VL is more or less the same.
Quality of songs too: there are no JJF or Shelters on Spirit either.
Tough job to produce a Stones album.
You know you have millions of Stones fans in the world. And you know you have BILLIONS of music consumers who probably don't even know who the Stones are.
What do you do?
The safe choice is to target your fan base. But the fan base wants the Let it Bleeds, the Exiles ...
The second safe choice is to follow the trends. You loose some fans, but you might conquer a o.ooo1 % of the rest of the BILLIONS of music consumers
Both VL and Babylon are a sort of compromise between the above.
The compromise in VL is in the sound. It's a sort of "classic" sound revisited. Amps, mics and guitars could be the same they used in the early 70s, but they sound modern.
I am not against updating the classic sound. But on VL it is done the wrong way. The Fraboni tracks from Babylon - for instance - sound modern and wonderful.
As I see it, the dynamics are the greatest asset of the band. They play electric and loud, but deep down they function like a classic orchestra: shifts in tempo, different layers of instruments, dynamics, crescendos etc.
If you capture all this, you got at least a very good Stones album.
Start compressing the sound too much and replacing the natural dynamics of the band with studio tricks (dramatic quiet/soft shifts a la Nirvana, no more room sound - the guitar of the Worst sounds as if your were listening from the plectrum!) and you squeeze the life out of the band's sound!
C
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: April 2, 2021 14:26
Quote
liddas
Sound on Wondering Spirit and VL is more or less the same.
I think it's closer to MO : a big live sound with a giant drum sound... courtesy Don Smith who recorded both albums.
And if that sound worked OK for Steve Jordan on M.O. it doesn't work at all for Charlie Watts. A "Bonhamesque" drum sound doesn't quite fit him.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 2, 2021 14:55
Quote
dcba
I think the relative failure of VL had several reasons :
- both Mick and Keef had somehow dried up the creative well with their solo albums.
- it was the very first time they cut an album without Bill. No matter what they could have said at the time it certainly put them off balance.
- Don Was entered the picture and as starstruck as he was he certainly said "yes that's great!" more often than he should have.
- after the terrific success of the SW album and tour, maybe maybe the band was a tad cocky for the VL sessions. Like "hey nothing can put us down".
The recent release of 4 new VL tracks made me re-assess the Vigotone sets and frankly there's some tedious music on it. Imho "The Worst" would have been a lovely B-side "sleeper" but frankly putting it on the album?
Otoh all the new B2B material that surfaced this year is fresh and exciting.
I thought Don Was vetoed on omitting the experimental stuff that Mick and Keith wanted to include on VL - hence Was acted as anything but a 'yes-man'.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
Elmo Lewis
()
Date: April 2, 2021 15:16
I've never understood why VL was called a retro album. Other than "New Faces", it doesn't remind me of the past.
As stated above, there were/are no more JJFs or GSs left in the songwriting tank.
As stated above, there were/are no more JJFs or GSs left in the songwriting tank.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: April 2, 2021 15:32
Quote
KRiffhardQuote
Gazza
How can people seriously argue that such-and-such a producer would have resulted in a better album? How can you possibly know or predict that about individuals you dont know?
Rubin worked with Jagger on Wandering Spirit. Its a good record, but he's on record as saying he has no wish to ever repeat the experience. Not hiring him for VL or any record thereafter is hardly the Stones' fault.
The album is overlong basically because by their own admission they crammed a few extras on there as they hadnt made a new record in five years (the longest gap ever at that point - those were the days, eh? By that yardstick, the next album will probably have about 30 songs on it.....)
Rubin produced the only Mick's good solo record...and it's no coincidence!
Thats not the point. Neither party wanted to repeat the experience. Rubin said Jagger was so surrounded by yes-men that his ego couldnt deal with a producer telling him that the work he was bringing to the studio wasnt that good and that he was capable of better. Imagine Keith's reaction to that criticism.
Should they have done a Spector and forced him to work at gunpoint?
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: April 2, 2021 15:37
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
dcba
I think the relative failure of VL had several reasons :
- both Mick and Keef had somehow dried up the creative well with their solo albums.
- it was the very first time they cut an album without Bill. No matter what they could have said at the time it certainly put them off balance.
- Don Was entered the picture and as starstruck as he was he certainly said "yes that's great!" more often than he should have.
- after the terrific success of the SW album and tour, maybe maybe the band was a tad cocky for the VL sessions. Like "hey nothing can put us down".
The recent release of 4 new VL tracks made me re-assess the Vigotone sets and frankly there's some tedious music on it. Imho "The Worst" would have been a lovely B-side "sleeper" but frankly putting it on the album?
Otoh all the new B2B material that surfaced this year is fresh and exciting.
I thought Don Was vetoed on omitting the experimental stuff that Mick and Keith wanted to include on VL - hence Was acted as anything but a 'yes-man'.
(Don Was is) definitely anti-groove. Charlie and I worked on a lot of groove tunes that never made it on to the record. That was the one thing I was slightly disappointed by.
- Mick Jagger, May 1994
I'm certainly not anti-groove, just anti-groove without substance, in the context of this album. They had a number of great grooves. But it was like, OK, what goes on top of it? Where does it go? I just felt that it's not what people were looking for from the Stones. I was looking for a sign that they can great real serious about this, still play better than anybody and write better than anybody.
- Don Was, May 1994
It's very much a kind of time-and-place album. In that way I was quite pleased with the results. But there were a lot of things that we wrote for Voodoo Lounge that Don (Was) steered us away from: groove songs, African influences and things like that. And he steered us away very clear of all that. And I think it was a mistake... He tried to remake Exile on Main Street or something like that. Plus, the engineer (Don Smith) was also trying to do the same thing. Their mind-set about it was just too retro. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it inherently, but they went over the top; they'd gone too far... I didn't really fight it in the end. I gave up because there was no point in it. I think both Charlie and I didn't really like it, but we could see that that was the direction you could go, and it might be successful. I don't think it really was that successful, because I don't think there's any point in having these over-retro references. I think it was an opportunity missed to go in another direction, which would have been more unusual, a little more radical, although it's always going to sound like the Rolling Stones.
- Mick Jagger, 1995
[www.timeisonourside.com]
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: April 2, 2021 19:50
Quote
GazzaQuote
KRiffhardQuote
Gazza
How can people seriously argue that such-and-such a producer would have resulted in a better album? How can you possibly know or predict that about individuals you dont know?
Rubin worked with Jagger on Wandering Spirit. Its a good record, but he's on record as saying he has no wish to ever repeat the experience. Not hiring him for VL or any record thereafter is hardly the Stones' fault.
The album is overlong basically because by their own admission they crammed a few extras on there as they hadnt made a new record in five years (the longest gap ever at that point - those were the days, eh? By that yardstick, the next album will probably have about 30 songs on it.....)
Rubin produced the only Mick's good solo record...and it's no coincidence!
Thats not the point. Neither party wanted to repeat the experience. Rubin said Jagger was so surrounded by yes-men that his ego couldnt deal with a producer telling him that the work he was bringing to the studio wasnt that good and that he was capable of better. Imagine Keith's reaction to that criticism.
Should they have done a Spector and forced him to work at gunpoint?
He was so right!!!
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: April 2, 2021 20:21
Quote
KRiffhardQuote
GazzaQuote
KRiffhardQuote
Gazza
How can people seriously argue that such-and-such a producer would have resulted in a better album? How can you possibly know or predict that about individuals you dont know?
Rubin worked with Jagger on Wandering Spirit. Its a good record, but he's on record as saying he has no wish to ever repeat the experience. Not hiring him for VL or any record thereafter is hardly the Stones' fault.
The album is overlong basically because by their own admission they crammed a few extras on there as they hadnt made a new record in five years (the longest gap ever at that point - those were the days, eh? By that yardstick, the next album will probably have about 30 songs on it.....)
Rubin produced the only Mick's good solo record...and it's no coincidence!
Thats not the point. Neither party wanted to repeat the experience. Rubin said Jagger was so surrounded by yes-men that his ego couldnt deal with a producer telling him that the work he was bringing to the studio wasnt that good and that he was capable of better. Imagine Keith's reaction to that criticism.
Should they have done a Spector and forced him to work at gunpoint?
He was so right!!!
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
Slick
()
Date: April 3, 2021 01:44
thank youQuote
Silver DaggerQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
Silver Dagger
Unfortunately with the exception of the brilliant Thru And Thru and the OKish I Go Wild, everything after the first 5 songs is utter rubbish and an embarrassment. Honestly, put any of those songs up even next to the rockers on Emotional Rescue and you'll know what I'm talking about. They ain't no roll. And not even no rock for that matter.
The songs that have stemmed from those sessions on the recent FF boot would have made VL a far stronger album.
Tracks 2 and 3 are rubbish and track 5 is just flake!
Love Is Strong, The Worst, Moon Is Up, Out Of Tears, I Go Wild, Baby Break It Down, Thru And Thru and Mean Disposition... that alone is a pretty damn good LP.
Moon Is Up, Baby Break It Up, Mean Disposition, Out Of Tears - are you kidding me. This is the band that made Exile On Main Street, Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers and they are stumbling into their old age. Really, give it up if you can't be tough any more. These songs are lame. It's old man's rock. I don't know when you first got into the band but I expect a hell of of a lot more.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
Slick
()
Date: April 3, 2021 01:48
wandering spirit > voodoo lounge, that should've been the next stones album
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: April 3, 2021 05:34
Quote
GazzaQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
dcba
I think the relative failure of VL had several reasons :
- both Mick and Keef had somehow dried up the creative well with their solo albums.
- it was the very first time they cut an album without Bill. No matter what they could have said at the time it certainly put them off balance.
- Don Was entered the picture and as starstruck as he was he certainly said "yes that's great!" more often than he should have.
- after the terrific success of the SW album and tour, maybe maybe the band was a tad cocky for the VL sessions. Like "hey nothing can put us down".
The recent release of 4 new VL tracks made me re-assess the Vigotone sets and frankly there's some tedious music on it. Imho "The Worst" would have been a lovely B-side "sleeper" but frankly putting it on the album?
Otoh all the new B2B material that surfaced this year is fresh and exciting.
I thought Don Was vetoed on omitting the experimental stuff that Mick and Keith wanted to include on VL - hence Was acted as anything but a 'yes-man'.
(Don Was is) definitely anti-groove. Charlie and I worked on a lot of groove tunes that never made it on to the record. That was the one thing I was slightly disappointed by.
- Mick Jagger, May 1994
I'm certainly not anti-groove, just anti-groove without substance, in the context of this album. They had a number of great grooves. But it was like, OK, what goes on top of it? Where does it go? I just felt that it's not what people were looking for from the Stones. I was looking for a sign that they can great real serious about this, still play better than anybody and write better than anybody.
- Don Was, May 1994
It's very much a kind of time-and-place album. In that way I was quite pleased with the results. But there were a lot of things that we wrote for Voodoo Lounge that Don (Was) steered us away from: groove songs, African influences and things like that. And he steered us away very clear of all that. And I think it was a mistake... He tried to remake Exile on Main Street or something like that. Plus, the engineer (Don Smith) was also trying to do the same thing. Their mind-set about it was just too retro. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it inherently, but they went over the top; they'd gone too far... I didn't really fight it in the end. I gave up because there was no point in it. I think both Charlie and I didn't really like it, but we could see that that was the direction you could go, and it might be successful. I don't think it really was that successful, because I don't think there's any point in having these over-retro references. I think it was an opportunity missed to go in another direction, which would have been more unusual, a little more radical, although it's always going to sound like the Rolling Stones.
- Mick Jagger, 1995
[www.timeisonourside.com]
What Was said, and then stated, gives Mick's words a lot more weight: "in the context of this album," which pretty much solidifies what Mick stated about the retro bit and being steered very clear away from what they wanted to do, and then Was says "I just felt that it's not what people were looking for from the Stones" - think back to Miss You and Emotional Rescue, things the Stones felt like doing. Considering how Miss You seemed to alienate some fans, does that seem like the Stones were giving the people what they were looking for? Hell no. As well as a number of other things - trendy or not - from that era, they did what they wanted to do. Sure, Lies is very punk, but Respectable... Chuck Berry with a punk attitude - as if that's not already Chuck Berry - rooted in old school while pissing all over the walls of the new school.
"In the context of the album." I certainly have felt, based on the bootlegged leftovers from the VL sessions, that musically, and maybe this is probably where Mick was going with what he stated, they left some great music off the album... considering the context of the album as we know it. As in, when I first heard the boots I thought WHATTHEFUCK, WHYYYYYYY?
What Was said makes it seem like Mick and Keith listened to what Kimsey compiled for TATTOO YOU and Mick said to Keith, "Youknowwhut, Keith. Keith, that one with the keyboard, da-nah-naah-na-nowwww, youknowthatone, 'Wonder Why' or whatever it's called, that's a good one to give to the people, what they expect to hear even though, you know, they don't know how early it's from, gimmim' whut they want, youknowwhutImean."
Keith: "Ha ha ha ha ha haggghhhhh yeah, I meannnn, ehhhhh, there's Charlie, Bill, the whole sink, man. Is Ronnie on that?"
Mick: "I dunno. Was it that guy from the country?"
Keith: "That's it. Wayne Perkins' Cadillac."
Of course, what Mick said at the end clearly provides his fuel for what went on to be with BRIDGES, which I like a lot more than VOODOO and maybe it's because of how Mick stated what happened with VOODOO and what he hoped to do - and that includes how Keith went with what Mick wanted to do as well as had Fraboni for his tracks. BRIDGES worked. So what if some of the songs are whatever, it has life to it.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
Sighunt
()
Date: April 3, 2021 09:04
This was my attempt to whittle down a more enjoyable version of Voodoo Lounge that for me flows a little better than the official version:
1 Love Is Strong
2 Sparks Will Fly
3 I Go Wild
4 The Worst
5 Brand New Car
6 Sweethearts Together
7 Out of Tears
8 Jump on Top of Me
9 Suck on the Jugular
10 Baby Break It Down
11 Thru & Thru
12 Mean Disposition (short version from Voodoo Brew)
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-03 19:04 by Sighunt.
1 Love Is Strong
2 Sparks Will Fly
3 I Go Wild
4 The Worst
5 Brand New Car
6 Sweethearts Together
7 Out of Tears
8 Jump on Top of Me
9 Suck on the Jugular
10 Baby Break It Down
11 Thru & Thru
12 Mean Disposition (short version from Voodoo Brew)
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-03 19:04 by Sighunt.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
twanghound
()
Date: April 3, 2021 10:12
I was driving in my car in north-spain, when "love is strong" was played on the radio.
i really loved that song immediatly, and the album was a company for a long, hot, strange summer.
it is no "sticky fingers", but the recording sounded like a band together in the studio, mick and keith writing together, and the boys having fun - no "dirty work".
the album should have been shorter - a classic 10 track record - but all in all it was the last horrayh of original compositions of the rolling stones for me.
"a bigger bang" and "bridges to babylon" did not catch my attention very much.
well, taste is individual, but "voodoo lounge" is the sound of summer 94 for me.
i really loved that song immediatly, and the album was a company for a long, hot, strange summer.
it is no "sticky fingers", but the recording sounded like a band together in the studio, mick and keith writing together, and the boys having fun - no "dirty work".
the album should have been shorter - a classic 10 track record - but all in all it was the last horrayh of original compositions of the rolling stones for me.
"a bigger bang" and "bridges to babylon" did not catch my attention very much.
well, taste is individual, but "voodoo lounge" is the sound of summer 94 for me.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: April 3, 2021 12:21
I can't be bothered often to listen to anything of the Stones post Tattoo You. Songs here and there, some of Undercover, some of Bridges, but certainly not entire albums. From Voodoo Lounge, the only songs that come to mind that I find interesting one way or other are:
- Love Is Strong
- You Got Me Rocking (it's a good song to play live)
- Sweethearts Together
- Baby Break It Down
The rest, meh...
- Love Is Strong
- You Got Me Rocking (it's a good song to play live)
- Sweethearts Together
- Baby Break It Down
The rest, meh...
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: April 3, 2021 12:23
Quote
KRiffhard
My Voodoo Lounge Revisited:
I Go Wild (Alternate Take)
[youtu.be]
Love Is Strong (Extended Rock Version)
[youtu.be]
Cocaine Blues
[youtu.be]
You Got Me Rocking (Alt.)
[youtu.be]
The Storm
[youtu.be]
Sparks Will Fly
[youtu.be]
New Faces (Instrumental)
[youtu.be]
So Young
[youtu.be]
The Worst (live with W.Nelson and S.Crow)
[youtu.be]
Suck on the jugular (Alt.)
[youtu.be]
Moon is Up
[youtu.be]
You Got It Made
[youtu.be]
...try this VL!!!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-03 12:25 by KRiffhard.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
billwebster
()
Date: April 3, 2021 13:02
I'm just listening to "You Got It Made" for the very first time, and I must say that this is one of Keith's best songs he sang for the Stones. Here's hoping the finished version (if there is one) gets an official release rather sooner than later because it's great.
VL was my introduction to this band, and I wouldn't change it.
VL was my introduction to this band, and I wouldn't change it.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: April 3, 2021 15:55
Sure, throw around the song order. Add or take away this or that song. It makes no difference. It is what it is. Take it or leave it.
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
tomcat2006
()
Date: April 3, 2021 17:24
Quote
Elmo Lewis
Wow! I like almost all of VL.
Me too!
Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by:
tomcat2006
()
Date: April 3, 2021 17:30
Quote
Taylor1
Blinded by Rainbows ,Sweet hearts Tgether,and Out of Tears are great songs.Only would replace Suck on the Juggler and Baby Break it Down with Jump on Top of Me and a complete Zipmouth Angel Suck on the Juggler may be the worst Stones songever.Baby Break it Down sucks too
Bits of Suck on the Jugular sound horribly out of tune to me, making the track unlistenable.
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