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Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: goingmad ()
Date: April 1, 2021 01:25

IMHO Voodoo Lounge is a good álbum, that could have been great:

Love is strong
You got me rocking
The worst
Moon is Up
Jump on top of me
New faces
You got It made
Honest man
The storm
Ivy league
Hands off
Thru & thru

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: April 1, 2021 01:32

None of these suggestions would have made the album better in any way. The album is what it is.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Maindefender ()
Date: April 1, 2021 01:51

Discussed in a recent thread I enjoy YGMR

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: April 1, 2021 01:58

Good point ! VL is probably my least favorite album this side of 1989, a tie with ABB maybe, but I can't really think of which songs from the actual album I wouldn't have wanted to listen to at some point so it's really hard to toss songs out, apart from the obvious throwaway boogie tracks like "Mean Disposition" (oops I see some like it, that's fine, each to their own !) yes that one should have been replaced by "Honest Man". It's possible it was being saved for another time but that idea got canned after Stew came out. TBH the finished backing tracks that appeared on Brew were not that great (other than Ivy League and You Got It Made possibly and a song like "Hands Off" wouldn't have fit with the album at all.

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-01 02:05 by gotdablouse.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: April 1, 2021 02:39

Quote
Stoneage
Creatively the Stones were done in the late seventies. Some Girls was the last LP that counted. In the eighties they could have stayed with their genre or follow trends.
They did something in between. To me their post 1981 output is pretty much irrelevant. Maybe with an exception for Undercover. Apparently Sir Michael thinks the same.
You just have to look at their setlists to realize that.

They have given UNDERCOVER some attention, obviously starting with STEEL WHEELS/URBAN JUNGLE with Undercover Of The Night for a few tours up through whatever it was last that includes Wanna Hold You during BRIDGES and She Was Hot from 2005 or whenever onward. As far as I know that's all they've done live, which I find a bit funny considering Mick's original feelings of "Yeah, I liked it" in 1984 to "Not a very special record" in 1995, undoubtedly his feelings extremely colored by the fact that it didn't sell as much as he would've liked. They were a bit two faced about it, for instance, Keith's point that it's the best they could make at the time is his soft way of expressing that it had too much dancey music to it perhaps even though there's some stellar rock'n'roll tunes that he laid out. His bullshit support about DIRTY WORK just shows what a shitshow they were in, calling that lunk of crap a "real concentrated effort" and comparing it to SOME GIRLS, which he later said there are a "couple of good things" on the album.

Yes, Keith, you are correct. That's all: a couple.

UNDERCOVER was the last creative blast and one of their most creatively produced albums, basically an anomaly (the closest they've come to that kind of attention was a few on BRIDGES). Perhaps people get too wrapped up in the lack of hit singles or don't like the modern sound at the time etc can't see the forest or the trees. It's almost begrudgingly disrespected. After that they've been on, well, Stones by numbers basically, with contractual obligations even, with the odd excellent track here and there, a kind of 'put a little more in to keep it going' aspect.

Critically in comparison to their creative work up through 1983, although the point of SOME GIRLS does have a lot of weight, and in the critical aspect of really making something, UNDERCOVER was the last true focused work of doing something new, different, and at times, since I appreciate the differences, good, as a band, even though it's obvious things were trending in the "my songs" area regarding individual output, production etc. It's not great ala LET IT BLEED etc. TATTOO YOU was an amazing result but it wasn't recorded by the band for its existence like previous albums were, with EOMS being a kind of beta TATTOO YOU considering what wasn't used from its sessions and was used from previous sessions - the sound of, just like TATOO YOU, is cohesive as a body of work.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: April 1, 2021 02:45

Quote
Silver Dagger
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
Silver Dagger
Unfortunately with the exception of the brilliant Thru And Thru and the OKish I Go Wild, everything after the first 5 songs is utter rubbish and an embarrassment. Honestly, put any of those songs up even next to the rockers on Emotional Rescue and you'll know what I'm talking about. They ain't no roll. And not even no rock for that matter.

The songs that have stemmed from those sessions on the recent FF boot would have made VL a far stronger album.

Tracks 2 and 3 are rubbish and track 5 is just flake!

Love Is Strong, The Worst, Moon Is Up, Out Of Tears, I Go Wild, Baby Break It Down, Thru And Thru and Mean Disposition... that alone is a pretty damn good LP.

Moon Is Up, Baby Break It Up, Mean Disposition, Out Of Tears - are you kidding me. This is the band that made Exile On Main Street, Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers and they are stumbling into their old age. Really, give it up if you can't be tough any more. These songs are lame. It's old man's rock. I don't know when you first got into the band but I expect a hell of of a lot more.

You're saying that about those songs? Those are LET IT BLEED compared to quite a few others on VOODOO yet alone after. Be "tough"? That's ridiculous.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Date: April 1, 2021 02:52

I try to keep an open mind with their newer stuff.

I agree they are not the same as they were in the 70's and that they fell into the "fill a CD mentality".

There are songs I like and more I do not listen to much.

However there are some who like the songs I dislike and others who do not like the songs which I think are fantastic.

So, I look at it like they are trying to appeal to a wide variety of people and just accept their music.

Yes, it can be much better but I am grateful they are giving us something and it certainly could be much worse.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: April 1, 2021 03:05

The problem is that it was a 'comeback' album. Bill split, and they seemed to have felt a little lost. That Golden Period was over. The consciously made a retro album, one that harkened back to their old songs. It is definitely not a courageous album artistically. Bridges was much more ambitious, but unfortunately had mixed results.

I rarely listen a post Wyman Stones album. Blue & Lonesome being the big exception. I can just listen to the first 30 years. Most everything past that is faint echo. (Except for a single hear and there. Doom and Gloom and Ghost Town are pretty damn good).

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: April 1, 2021 04:32

Quote
24FPS
The problem is that it was a 'comeback' album. Bill split, and they seemed to have felt a little lost. That Golden Period was over. The consciously made a retro album, one that harkened back to their old songs. It is definitely not a courageous album artistically. Bridges was much more ambitious, but unfortunately had mixed results.

I rarely listen a post Wyman Stones album. Blue & Lonesome being the big exception. I can just listen to the first 30 years. Most everything past that is faint echo. (Except for a single hear and there. Doom and Gloom and Ghost Town are pretty damn good).

I listen to certain BRIDGES and BANG songs but mostly it's 1967-1983. I've found BUTTONS to be quite invigorating because it's not even in the alphabet for that era, it's some other thing entirely, and not necessarily math but just... some kind of code. LIAGT is excellent. The GHS reissue has me listening to IORR and BAB a lot more - and GHS, of course.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: April 1, 2021 06:44

Between the Buttons has always been one of their overlooked classics. Especially the UK version. Used to love it so much back when it was released. Don't really listen to it much these days but it had a big impact on me at least. Along with Aftermath.

jb

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: KRiffhard ()
Date: April 1, 2021 08:26

Quote
Four Stone Walls
Yes, I think that's what it was.

Their interest and creative interst was in their own projects.

Then, 'oh let's get together to record an album for a tour again'

Worst drum sound and bass of any Stones album.[/b]

4-5 nice songs

We all differ on which those are.

(ps fairly ignorant on the out-takes - except Storm, Jump ontem and one or two others. But that bass is so bad, had no appetite to investigate further)

You're righ about the sound.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-01 08:28 by KRiffhard.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: KRiffhard ()
Date: April 1, 2021 09:03

Quote
Stoneage
None of these suggestions would have made the album better in any way. The album is what it is.

It's a good album, with the worst sound ever e many mistakes about the choice of the songs.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: KRiffhard ()
Date: April 1, 2021 09:11

Quote
KRiffhard
Quote
Stoneage
None of these suggestions would have made the album better in any way. The album is what it is.


It's a good album, with the worst sound ever e many mistakes about the choice of the songs.
Many alternate takes are better than the official versions (I go wild, You Got Me Rocking, Suck on the Jugular, Brand New Car...).
How can you not choose The Storm, So Young, Cocaine Blues, You Got It Made...?!!
How you can not complete the work on interesting groove like Middle of the Sea or Monsoon Ragoon?!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-01 09:12 by KRiffhard.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Silver Dagger ()
Date: April 1, 2021 14:42

Quote
LeonidP
Quote
Silver Dagger
Quote
EddieByword
Quote
Sighunt
Quote
EddieByword
I made my own edited version which I quite like - 50 mins..

01 Moon is up
02 Love is strong
03 I go wild
04 The worst
05 Brand new car
06 Out of tears
07 I'm gonna drive
08 Jump on top of me
09 Thru and thru
10 Break it down
11 You got me rocking
12 Blinded by rainbows

Recently, I have been listening to the Stones later day albums from Steel Wheels and beyond, and out of all of those albums, I've grown in my appreciation of Voodoo Lounge. I do agree with comments made by others over the years that if Voodoo Lounge was whittled down to 10-12 choice cuts like above, I think it would have been better received.

Yes, I agree. I guess with the appearance of CDs, a lot artists including the Stones got sucked up in the "Got to fill the CD" mentality.

Absolutely Eddie. Less is more.

Exile had more!

It sure did. They don't make 'em like that anymore.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Silver Dagger ()
Date: April 1, 2021 14:46

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
Silver Dagger
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
Silver Dagger
Unfortunately with the exception of the brilliant Thru And Thru and the OKish I Go Wild, everything after the first 5 songs is utter rubbish and an embarrassment. Honestly, put any of those songs up even next to the rockers on Emotional Rescue and you'll know what I'm talking about. They ain't no roll. And not even no rock for that matter.

The songs that have stemmed from those sessions on the recent FF boot would have made VL a far stronger album.

Tracks 2 and 3 are rubbish and track 5 is just flake!

Love Is Strong, The Worst, Moon Is Up, Out Of Tears, I Go Wild, Baby Break It Down, Thru And Thru and Mean Disposition... that alone is a pretty damn good LP.

Moon Is Up, Baby Break It Up, Mean Disposition, Out Of Tears - are you kidding me. This is the band that made Exile On Main Street, Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers and they are stumbling into their old age. Really, give it up if you can't be tough any more. These songs are lame. It's old man's rock. I don't know when you first got into the band but I expect a hell of of a lot more.

You're saying that about those songs? Those are LET IT BLEED compared to quite a few others on VOODOO yet alone after. Be "tough"? That's ridiculous.

Each to their own. No point arguing with taste in that case. Just giving my opinion but it does seem to echo a common feeling amongst older Stones fans at least that they are spent force creatively. I guess if you saw them in 73 you might feel the same so excuse my age..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-01 14:49 by Silver Dagger.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: GhostTown2021 ()
Date: April 1, 2021 14:56

Quote
Silver Dagger


Each to their own. No point arguing with taste in that case. Just giving my opinion but it does seem to echo a common feeling amongst older Stones fans at least that they are spent force creatively. I guess if you saw them in 73 you might feel the same so excuse my age..

Or as one famous guitarist once said, paraphasing here, couldn't find the original quote online : 'People usually like the stuff they heard when they first got laid.' spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Father Ted ()
Date: April 1, 2021 14:59

VL is average at best. My Dad said at the time that it didn't even sound like the Rolling Stones were playing on it.

None of these tracks will ever be played live again (not that they appeared frequently back in 94/95). That's quite telling as to how the band view VL.

5/10.

"An ingenious and entertaining assemblage of nonsense" - James A. Van Allen

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: liddas ()
Date: April 1, 2021 17:19

Quote
Father Ted

None of these tracks will ever be played live again (not that they appeared frequently back in 94/95). That's quite telling as to how the band view VL.

Well, as a matter of fact, the stones played quite a lot of VL songs during their 94/95 tour. You Got Me Rocking even got close to the status of semi-warhorse

C

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: April 1, 2021 17:20

Quote
Silver Dagger
it does seem to echo a common feeling amongst older Stones fans at least that they are spent force creatively.

To be fair to the band they themselves probably don't really [know] how they could make so many masterpieces between 68 and 72.
Around the time of "stripped" Keef compared songwriting to something that's sent to you like a radio broadcast, you just have to spread your antennas and "get it".

If you follow that reasoning you have to notice their reception was exceptionnaly good between 68 and 72.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-01 17:53 by dcba.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: April 1, 2021 17:40

Quote
dcba
Quote
Silver Dagger
it does seem to echo a common feeling amongst older Stones fans at least that they are spent force creatively.

To be fair to the band they themselves probably don't really how they could make so many masterpieces between 68 and 72.
Around the time of "stripped" Keef compared songwriting to something that's sent to you like a radio broadcast, you just have to spread your antennas and "get it".

If you follow that reasoning you have to notice their reception was exceptionnaly good between 68 and 72.

I would stretch that exceptional/masterpiece run out now to '73.
GHS was the perfect album to follow EOMS with. The recent deluxe editions and attention they brought to it has made me appreciate it even more and raised it's stature imo. drinking smiley

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: April 1, 2021 18:03

Quote
dcba
Quote
Silver Dagger
it does seem to echo a common feeling amongst older Stones fans at least that they are spent force creatively.

To be fair to the band they themselves probably don't really [know] how they could make so many masterpieces between 68 and 72.
Around the time of "stripped" Keef compared songwriting to something that's sent to you like a radio broadcast, you just have to spread your antennas and "get it".

If you follow that reasoning you have to notice their reception was exceptionnaly good between 68 and 72.

As was their work ethic and amount of time spent together (especially the Glimmer Twins).

"No Anchovies, Please"

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: April 1, 2021 18:13

I still like VL a lot! If I made a list of upper 1/2 vs. lower 1/2 of Stones albums, I think VL would be in the upper portion!

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: WorriedAboutYou ()
Date: April 1, 2021 18:32

Voodoo Lounge was a massive comedown after the magnificent Steel Wheels. Rammed full of pointless filler, their absolute worst song in You Got Me Rocking, juvenile lyrics, no Bill, awful artwork.

Love Is Strong is salvageable but the rest of the album is a really tough listen.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: April 1, 2021 18:43

You Got Me Rocking is their only post 81 warhorse. At 15th place on their setlist top list. Played 448 times on tour.

[www.setlist.fm]

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: April 1, 2021 18:54

Quote
WorriedAboutYou
Voodoo Lounge was a massive comedown after the magnificent Steel Wheels. Rammed full of pointless filler, their absolute worst song in You Got Me Rocking, juvenile lyrics, no Bill, awful artwork...

Totally opposite for me. Steel Wheels has much more pointless filler, imo (hold on to your hat, hearts for sale, sad sad sad ... the last 2 i do like, but they are not great. Oh and the blasphemy part -- I never thought Almost Hear You Sigh is all that great, everyone else seems to think its a classic).

VL was a rejuvenation!

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: April 1, 2021 20:48

Blinded by Rainbows ,Sweet hearts Tgether,and Out of Tears are great songs.Only would replace Suck on the Juggler and Baby Break it Down with Jump on Top of Me and a complete Zipmouth Angel Suck on the Juggler may be the worst Stones songever.Baby Break it Down sucks too



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-01 20:50 by Taylor1.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: April 1, 2021 21:57

Quote
Taylor1
Blinded by Rainbows ,Sweet hearts Tgether,and Out of Tears are great songs.Only would replace Suck on the Juggler and Baby Break it Down with Jump on Top of Me and a complete Zipmouth Angel Suck on the Juggler may be the worst Stones songever.Baby Break it Down sucks too

"Back To Zero" is on the line.

"No Anchovies, Please"

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: April 1, 2021 23:03

I also belong to the group that is skeptical if selecting some different songs to VOODOO LOUNGE would have made the album any better. No matter how much I try to listen the out-takes I don't hear there any "Blind Willie McTell", if you know what I mean. The out-takes I know aren't that better or worse, just slightly different mostly. I think we talk in nuances here. No masterpiece was lost due to song selection.

I think the case is more like that if they actually had selected some out-takes we now know from bootlegs, and instead we would hear from the bootlegs the songs that actually made the album, we might now complain why the latter ones weren't selected... Honestly, I think this pretty much applies to many songs we might now think as lesser ones in the albums...

That said, I think some 80's albums do actually suffer more weak song selections (I have DIRTY WORK mostly in mind) - although I don't think any masterpeice were lost there either, or the history would have been any different due to some different songs choices. But even in that case it is the the issue from hindsight. The selection policy in question most based every time in certain over-all feel or artistic statement of the album, and some tracks just didn't fit or had some similar alternatives and they wanted to have some variance. I think the greatness of TATTOO YOU especially is that it picked up the songs that were rejected from the former albums since of those having too many similar type of songs to choose from. Put together years later in one album they offered much musically variant and stronger version of the band than normal sessions could have offered. I think the depthness of TATTOO YOU especially derives having cuts from GOATS HEADS SOUP and BLACK AND BLUE eras. That was kind of stuff the band was not any longer interested or able to produce.

Generally I think especially the songs we might now judge as gems from the vaults - those usually representing a pretty convential, 'eternal' version of Stones sound - might have sounded way too repitive or 'by-numbers' at the time. I think we easily forget that for much of their career the band was very forward-looking and trying always to re-invent themselves. For that reason, I think very conventional or trade-mark sounding "Start Me Up" didn't have a place in SOME GIRLS.

The albums are products stemming from their context. At the time when album still consisted of some ten to twelve songs the possibility of some actually great songs being left out was stronger. By the time of VOODOO LOUNGE - a pure CD era product - I think that really wasn't the issue any longer.

I should have added more some examples to illustrate more what I mean. Sorry being lazy. smiling smiley

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-01 23:13 by Doxa.

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: April 1, 2021 23:30

Quote
Stoneage
You Got Me Rocking is their only post 81 warhorse. At 15th place on their setlist top list. Played 448 times on tour.

[www.setlist.fm]

A bit embarrassing - not only a horrible tune, but also the fact they've tried to force-feed it while most in attendance give it the thumbs down.
That said, can't think of any other post '81 tunes that are truly warhose worthy - maybe their cover of Harlem Shuffle should have been played more, but alas it's a cover...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Voodoo Lounge: a wasted opportunity
Posted by: rollmops ()
Date: April 2, 2021 00:23

Quote
Hairball
Quote
Stoneage
You Got Me Rocking is their only post 81 warhorse. At 15th place on their setlist top list. Played 448 times on tour.

[www.setlist.fm]

A bit embarrassing - not only a horrible tune, but also the fact they've tried to force-feed it while most in attendance give it the thumbs down.
That said, can't think of any other post '81 tunes that are truly warhose worthy - maybe their cover of Harlem Shuffle should have been played more, but alas it's a cover...

Maybe "Out of Control"; good lyrics, Temptations' musical roots, great bipolar rythm change with kickass accelaration on loud keith's guitar riffing with Mick's fantastic harmonica rock out.
Rockandroll,
Mops

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