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The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: ShootsWaterRats ()
Date: March 18, 2021 00:26

On their 1972 U.S. tour, the Stones were genuinely deserving of their "Greatest Rock and Roll Band in the World" moniker. They added virtuoso Mick Taylor a couple years previous, had recently released their two greatest albums (Sticky Fingers and Exile on Main Street), were joined by three top sidemen (Nicky Hopkins, Bobby Keys and Jim Price), hired the brilliant Stevie Wonder as their opening act, and their "S.T.P." Stones Touring Party created -- for better or worse -- the template for debauchery by numerous bands that followed.

Those of us who have listened to bootlegs from the tour, and especially those of you who were old enough and lucky enough to attend in person, can speak to the many brilliant performances that took place, especially as the tour progressed into July, culminating with tremendous shows in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and New York.

And yet the lone commercially available document from this tour is the film and soundtrack "Ladies and Gentlemen: The Rolling Stones." While this release has its admirers, many of us would agree that the performances, recorded in Texas only halfway through the tour, were not among their best, and that the soundtrack sounds like sh#t (i.e., overly-compressed, lacking in separation and depth).

Despite this, we also know from the band's initial plan to release a live album from the tour, as well as from some of the higher quality bootlegs that emerged in years following, that some of the better shows from the tour were also professionally recorded.

In recent years, the Stones have released archival shows from '71 and '73. The general understanding seems to be that Mick calls the shots on many of these things, and that he isn't inclined to revisit history in much depth -- so I'm guessing he figures that "Ladies and Gentlemen" adequately represents '72, and that there's no need to supplement it.

...But oh what I would give to have an album of truly high fidelity recordings from some better performances on that tour. I think such an album would really be the crown jewel of the Stones' live canon, and would join the pantheon of great live albums overall (already including Ya Ya's).

And at the risk of overstating it, I believe the absence of such a release -- the Greatest Band on their Greatest Tour -- is downright tragic. Like if James Brown had never put out Live at the Apollo, or Bob Marley had never released the Live! album from his 1975 shows at the Lyceum, or Dylan had kept the "Royal Albert Hall" show in the vault forever, etc. It just drives me nutty at times, knowing that there might be quality multi-track reels from the Stones '72 tour in a warehouse somewhere, simply gathering dust and shedding oxides.

Anyway...

I'm curious to know if any IORR members in years past have ever tried to reach out to the Rolling Stones band/corporation/institution to ask about the possibility of a higher quality '72 live release? And/or I'm wondering if anyone in the IORR community has a relevant contact for such an inquiry?

Feel free to reply to me directly if you prefer, thanks.

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: peoplewitheyes ()
Date: March 18, 2021 00:30

Great post.

You got me wanting to hear it, that's for sure.

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: March 18, 2021 00:39

Quote
ShootsWaterRats
In recent years, the Stones have released archival shows from '71 and '73. The general understanding seems to be that Mick calls the shots on many of these things, and that he isn't inclined to revisit history in much depth -- so I'm guessing he figures that "Ladies and Gentlemen" adequately represents '72, and that there's no need to supplement it.

Think again!

There are multiple releases from tours. The 1981 tour has STILL LIFE, HAMPTON and LIVE AT LEEDS.

The 1975-76 tours have LOVE YOU LIVE and L.A. FRIDAY.

The BRIDGES tours have NO SECURITY, BREMEN and BUENOS AIRES.

1989 has FLASHPOINT, TOKYO and ATLANTIC CITY.


A 1972 show could happen. Just don't hold your breath.

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: March 18, 2021 01:04

It was such a great tour.Too bad there is nothing remotely withthe quality of Flashpoint .And great post.Definitely agree L&G is shit.There is no separation between the instruments.

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Date: March 18, 2021 01:10

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
ShootsWaterRats
In recent years, the Stones have released archival shows from '71 and '73. The general understanding seems to be that Mick calls the shots on many of these things, and that he isn't inclined to revisit history in much depth -- so I'm guessing he figures that "Ladies and Gentlemen" adequately represents '72, and that there's no need to supplement it.

Think again!

There are multiple releases from tours. The 1981 tour has STILL LIFE, HAMPTON and LIVE AT LEEDS.

The 1975-76 tours have LOVE YOU LIVE and L.A. FRIDAY.

The BRIDGES tours have NO SECURITY, BREMEN and BUENOS AIRES.

1989 has FLASHPOINT, TOKYO and ATLANTIC CITY.


A 1972 show could happen. Just don't hold your breath.

Also San Jose 99.

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: Lynd8 ()
Date: March 18, 2021 01:26

The real tragedy is they made a film in 1972 (CS Blues) and should have had good cameras etc.. to record a concert instead of throwing a TV out the window LOL. There's some live footage in the movie, but frustratingly little

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: March 18, 2021 01:56

The real tragedy is that history can't be rewritten.

Back then, contractual and out-of-court agreements with ABKCO legally prevented official live albums from 1972 and 1973 as long as they would have included songs that were originally released under their ABKCO contract, like Gimme Shelter, YCAGWYW, Midnight Rambler, JJF and so on - in sum, most of the obvious highlights.

They had to leave that task to the bootleggers, and I think it is safe to say that the bootlegs from their "forbidden" tours 1971 to 1975 added a lot to their almost mythical legacy.

After 1975, free from their 5 year re-recording clause that prevented official releases from these tours, they could have released this material, but as we know, the Stones doing archive releases did not happen until almost 35 years later...

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: Sighunt ()
Date: March 18, 2021 02:11

Quote
ShootsWaterRats
On their 1972 U.S. tour, the Stones were genuinely deserving of their "Greatest Rock and Roll Band in the World" moniker. They added virtuoso Mick Taylor a couple years previous, had recently released their two greatest albums (Sticky Fingers and Exile on Main Street), were joined by three top sidemen (Nicky Hopkins, Bobby Keys and Jim Price), hired the brilliant Stevie Wonder as their opening act, and their "S.T.P." Stones Touring Party created -- for better or worse -- the template for debauchery by numerous bands that followed.

Those of us who have listened to bootlegs from the tour, and especially those of you who were old enough and lucky enough to attend in person, can speak to the many brilliant performances that took place, especially as the tour progressed into July, culminating with tremendous shows in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and New York.

And yet the lone commercially available document from this tour is the film and soundtrack "Ladies and Gentlemen: The Rolling Stones." While this release has its admirers, many of us would agree that the performances, recorded in Texas only halfway through the tour, were not among their best, and that the soundtrack sounds like sh#t (i.e., overly-compressed, lacking in separation and depth).

Despite this, we also know from the band's initial plan to release a live album from the tour, as well as from some of the higher quality bootlegs that emerged in years following, that some of the better shows from the tour were also professionally recorded.

In recent years, the Stones have released archival shows from '71 and '73. The general understanding seems to be that Mick calls the shots on many of these things, and that he isn't inclined to revisit history in much depth -- so I'm guessing he figures that "Ladies and Gentlemen" adequately represents '72, and that there's no need to supplement it.

...But oh what I would give to have an album of truly high fidelity recordings from some better performances on that tour. I think such an album would really be the crown jewel of the Stones' live canon, and would join the pantheon of great live albums overall (already including Ya Ya's).

And at the risk of overstating it, I believe the absence of such a release -- the Greatest Band on their Greatest Tour -- is downright tragic. Like if James Brown had never put out Live at the Apollo, or Bob Marley had never released the Live! album from his 1975 shows at the Lyceum, or Dylan had kept the "Royal Albert Hall" show in the vault forever, etc. It just drives me nutty at times, knowing that there might be quality multi-track reels from the Stones '72 tour in a warehouse somewhere, simply gathering dust and shedding oxides.

Anyway...

I'm curious to know if any IORR members in years past have ever tried to reach out to the Rolling Stones band/corporation/institution to ask about the possibility of a higher quality '72 live release? And/or I'm wondering if anyone in the IORR community has a relevant contact for such an inquiry?

Feel free to reply to me directly if you prefer, thanks.


I saw your post and I want to respond to it. At the point that I became a member and joined this forum, several Stones fans from another Stones board (now defunct) and myself who were big, big fans of Get Yer Ya Yas Out were always bemoaning the fact that Ya Yas was incomplete (this was a year or two before the 2009 pre-40th anniversary deluxe box set) and we all agreed that with the upcoming 40th anniversary of those MSG shows, wouldn't it be nice to have their greatest live album released with the extra missing tracks and music included with the supporting acts such as Mick Jagger had originally intended?

Well, I got a bug up my ass, and suggested that we work to craft a petition (that was subsequently sent to Abkco and the Stones organization) and then promote it on all the Stones boards that we could think of (including this site). This was a major undertaking on our part. We needed to enlist other folks who had Stones connections (for instance, one of the members of the now defunct Sister Morphine Stones board was friendly with Bill German and from what I understand contacted him to enlist him in our efforts). I spent months on this obsession of mine (and in the process took a lot of shit from many naysayers-even members from this site who shall remain nameless-who mocked me for my efforts and secretly did not want to see our petition succeed). But I was determined. Out of my own pocket, I paid for adds that I placed in music trade magazines like Goldmine and other publications to publicize the petition.

Well low and behold, in 2009, Abkco released the 40th anniversary of Ya Yas with the unreleased songs from MSG and music from the supporting acts (just like we asked for in our petition). Now, I will never know if Abkco had planned to do this on their own, or maybe they saw the petition we sent and thought there would be enough demand for a re-release of Ya Yas in an expanded format.

I would like to believe that our efforts made a difference.
So my message to you ShootsWaterRats is if you want it bad enough-make it happen! I wont kid you. It will take work (I worked on the Ya Yas campaign for almost a year). However, if you can get enough people who feel strongly about the 72 tour to get behind it, it could pay off. Just my two cents.



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-18 18:17 by Sighunt.

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: ShootsWaterRats ()
Date: March 18, 2021 02:44

Quote
Sighunt
Quote
ShootsWaterRats
On their 1972 U.S. tour, the Stones were genuinely deserving of their "Greatest Rock and Roll Band in the World" moniker. They added virtuoso Mick Taylor a couple years previous, had recently released their two greatest albums (Sticky Fingers and Exile on Main Street), were joined by three top sidemen (Nicky Hopkins, Bobby Keys and Jim Price), hired the brilliant Stevie Wonder as their opening act, and their "S.T.P." Stones Touring Party created -- for better or worse -- the template for debauchery by numerous bands that followed.

Those of us who have listened to bootlegs from the tour, and especially those of you who were old enough and lucky enough to attend in person, can speak to the many brilliant performances that took place, especially as the tour progressed into July, culminating with tremendous shows in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and New York.

And yet the lone commercially available document from this tour is the film and soundtrack "Ladies and Gentlemen: The Rolling Stones." While this release has its admirers, many of us would agree that the performances, recorded in Texas only halfway through the tour, were not among their best, and that the soundtrack sounds like sh#t (i.e., overly-compressed, lacking in separation and depth).

Despite this, we also know from the band's initial plan to release a live album from the tour, as well as from some of the higher quality bootlegs that emerged in years following, that some of the better shows from the tour were also professionally recorded.

In recent years, the Stones have released archival shows from '71 and '73. The general understanding seems to be that Mick calls the shots on many of these things, and that he isn't inclined to revisit history in much depth -- so I'm guessing he figures that "Ladies and Gentlemen" adequately represents '72, and that there's no need to supplement it.

...But oh what I would give to have an album of truly high fidelity recordings from some better performances on that tour. I think such an album would really be the crown jewel of the Stones' live canon, and would join the pantheon of great live albums overall (already including Ya Ya's).

And at the risk of overstating it, I believe the absence of such a release -- the Greatest Band on their Greatest Tour -- is downright tragic. Like if James Brown had never put out Live at the Apollo, or Bob Marley had never released the Live! album from his 1975 shows at the Lyceum, or Dylan had kept the "Royal Albert Hall" show in the vault forever, etc. It just drives me nutty at times, knowing that there might be quality multi-track reels from the Stones '72 tour in a warehouse somewhere, simply gathering dust and shedding oxides.

Anyway...

I'm curious to know if any IORR members in years past have ever tried to reach out to the Rolling Stones band/corporation/institution to ask about the possibility of a higher quality '72 live release? And/or I'm wondering if anyone in the IORR community has a relevant contact for such an inquiry?

Feel free to reply to me directly if you prefer, thanks.


I saw your post and I want to respond to it. At the point that I became a member and joined this forum, several Stones fans from another Stones board (now defunct) and myself who were big, big fans of Get Yer Ya Yas Out were always bemoaning the fact that Ya Yas was incomplete (this was a year or two before the 2009 pre-40th anniversary deluxe box set) and we all agreed that with the upcoming 40th anniversary of those MSG shows, wouldn't it be nice to have their greatest live album released with the extra missing tracks and music included with the supporting acts such as Mick Jagger had originally intended?

Well, I got a bug up my ass, and suggested that we work to craft a petition (that was subsequently sent to Abkco and the Stones organization) and then promote it on all the Stones boards that we could think of (including this site). This was a major undertaking on our part. We needed to enlist other folks who had Stones connections (for instance, one of the members of the now defunct Sister Morphine Stones board was friendly with Bill German and from what I understand contacted him to enlist him in our efforts). I spent months on this obsession of mine (and in the process took a lot of shit from many naysayers-even members from this site who shall remain nameless-who mocked me for my efforts and secretly did not want to see our petition succeed. But I was determined. I paid for out of my own pocket, adds that I placed in music trade magazines like Goldmine and other publications to publicize the petition.

Well low and behold, in 2009, Abkco released the 40th anniversary of Ya Yas with the unreleased songs from MSG and music from the supporting acts (just like we asked for in our petition). Now, I will never know if Abkco had planned to do this on their own, or maybe they saw the petition we sent and thought there would be enough demand for a re-release of Ya Yas in an expanded format.

I would like to believe that our efforts made a difference.
So my message to you ShootsWaterRats is if you want it bad enough-make it happen! I wont kid you. It will take work (I worked on the Ya Yas campaign for almost a year). However, if you can get enough people who feel strongly about the 72 tour to get behind it, it could pay off. Just my two cents.


Sighunt, thanks for your informative (and daunting-yet-inspiring) reply to my post. It's hard not to think that we have you to thank for the expanded Ya-Ya's release. So, "Thank you kindly..."

I suppose my fantasy is that someone on IORR knows someone at stonesarchive.com who knows someone who knows Mick, and that through this chain I could send Mick a missive revisiting the points I made in my post, and that's all it would take.

But if you care to offer any more specifics about how you coordinated with others re: Ya-Ya's, please feel free to email me directly (you can find my email address in my IORR profile). Thanks again...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-18 02:49 by ShootsWaterRats.

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: glimmerman ()
Date: March 18, 2021 02:47

I feel your pain. For me, the Madison bootleg went a long way towards scratching this itch. And we got it in 1972.

Best band to ever take a stage.

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: March 18, 2021 05:11

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
ShootsWaterRats
In recent years, the Stones have released archival shows from '71 and '73. The general understanding seems to be that Mick calls the shots on many of these things, and that he isn't inclined to revisit history in much depth -- so I'm guessing he figures that "Ladies and Gentlemen" adequately represents '72, and that there's no need to supplement it.

Think again!

There are multiple releases from tours. The 1981 tour has STILL LIFE, HAMPTON and LIVE AT LEEDS.

The 1975-76 tours have LOVE YOU LIVE and L.A. FRIDAY.

The BRIDGES tours have NO SECURITY, BREMEN and BUENOS AIRES.

1989 has FLASHPOINT, TOKYO and ATLANTIC CITY.


A 1972 show could happen. Just don't hold your breath.

Also San Jose 99.

DAMMIT. I knew there was another one!

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: timbernardis ()
Date: March 18, 2021 07:50

then the Licks tour had Live Licks and Four Flicks

A Bigger Bang had the Biggest Bang

what else?



plexi

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Date: March 18, 2021 08:30

There were two Tokyo-shows smiling smiley

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: Mabru ()
Date: March 18, 2021 09:33

There is a 72 release: what about the Ladies and Gentlemen cd and dvd ?

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: slewan ()
Date: March 18, 2021 11:18

well, be patient. Most likely it's just a matter of time. By the end of 2022 all 1972 recordings will become public domain unless they are officially released. Thus I'm pretty sure that there will be some kind of official release relatively soon.

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: March 18, 2021 11:31

Quote
Mabru
There is a 72 release: what about the Ladies and Gentlemen cd and dvd ?
The sound sucks.Compare the sound to officially released recordings from1969 ,1975,1978,1981,1989,1990, 2003, etc.,and it sounds crappy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-18 11:34 by Taylor1.

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: Father Ted ()
Date: March 18, 2021 12:33

There's surely enough '72 material to do a multi-show box set incl a disk with all the tour rarities that only got played once or twice? (Yes, I'm looking at you Don't Lie to Me).

"An ingenious and entertaining assemblage of nonsense" - James A. Van Allen

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: ShootsWaterRats ()
Date: March 18, 2021 13:29

Quote
Mabru
There is a 72 release: what about the Ladies and Gentlemen cd and dvd ?

Read my original post and you'll see I discussed this.

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: March 18, 2021 14:37

One of the worst things about the L&G audio is there is no separation between the instruments.The guitars,particularly Keith’s sound weak.Like there is a gauze over it.Compare his guitar on Flashpoint to this



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-18 14:39 by Taylor1.

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: March 18, 2021 15:24

MSG show, Mick's bday is the one...with Stevie wonder.

Some might think this is the holy grail?

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: S.T.P ()
Date: March 18, 2021 16:21

I know the feeling about the longing for a live album from '72. I't would be wonderful with a release that has the energy, loudness and separation between all the instruments. Not only crystal clear guitars, but the whole thing. Bass, drums, piano and horn section. A full album with both Stones and Stevie Wonder! Still waiting after 30 years since I first got a hold on a VHS of L&Gthumbs up



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-18 16:23 by S.T.P.

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: S.T.P ()
Date: March 18, 2021 16:40

Collecting dust..


Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: March 18, 2021 18:00

Quote
S.T.P
Collecting dust..


Absolutely! Complete with studio overdubs — just like Ya Ya's winking smiley

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: March 18, 2021 18:04

in 1967, I was around ten years old when the Beatles, Stones and many others inspired me to begin learning to play guitar.

I was fifteen years old when I saw the Stones -- for the second time -- at the Spectrum in 1972. The first time I saw the Stones had been in November, 1969 - also at the Spectrum.

And though it didn't seem possible... in 1972 they were even better than 1969! On a scale of 1 to 10... It was eleven!

I don't really remember the music, and the Philadelphia Special cd is a great memento/ memory substitute.

My only actual memory is that I could feel that the building was throbbing with the music and the crowd... really incredible, exciting!

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: March 18, 2021 19:16

Quote
S.T.P
Collecting dust..


Not really, cassette copies of the multitracks have been circulating since 1975... and unlike the recent flood of new studio material they're not mp3-sourced. grinning smiley

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: S.T.P ()
Date: March 18, 2021 20:27

Quote
dcba
Not really, cassette copies of the multitracks have been circulating since 1975... and unlike the recent flood of new studio material they're not mp3-sourced. grinning smiley

Are you refering to the few tracks with overdubs that exist on boots like "Keep Your Motor Running" or something else?

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: eismann ()
Date: March 18, 2021 20:41

So what about Pittsburgh '72?

[youtu.be]

[youtu.be]

the greatest rock and roll band in the world - definitely

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: yearsinthemaking ()
Date: March 18, 2021 20:57

I don't quite understand the "public domain" issue. After 50 years what does it matter if the recordings are still in a vault somewhere and no one can get their hands on the recording anyway. We still won't have a 1972 release in January 2023 if the Stones don't want us to have it

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: March 19, 2021 01:59

The guitars on the Dallas Rehearsals sound better than they do on L&G.I’m sure with modern technology they could greatly enhance the sound of any of these 1972 shows.I just think the Stones don’t care



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-03-19 02:00 by Taylor1.

Re: The Tragic Absence of a Great '72 Live Release
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: March 19, 2021 07:50

Just give us a great 'Rocks Off' live from '72.

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