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AntoineParis
Bob Clearmountain seems to be "too expensive" for those kind of project now...

poor us

Why do you say that?

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AntoineParis
Bob Clearmountain seems to be "too expensive" for those kind of project now...

poor us

That's also what I think. Still I wonder why they engage Sam Wheat again and again while he keeps on delivering these poor mixes. Ever since Voodoo Lounge Uncut the should have searched for a different engineer.
I guess Mick has to like them with what's left of his hearing.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-22 20:25 by StonedRambler.

Yes its very strange they still use Sam Wheat, maybe he had a strong emotional bond with Matt Clifford...
? Sam Wheat delivered great Mixes of LA Forum and Hyde Park.. after that they trusted him and didnt «need to «listen to his mixes again.. my guess is that he got the thumb up from the stones inc- and nobody dear to speak the truth. I would love to hear mr clearmountains opinion of the Wheat mixes....anyways - the magic will shine through.

Voodoo Lounge Uncut sort of reminds me of what it sounds like trying to listen to the wife hollering at me while holding pillows to my ears.

I'll make up my mind about how the mix sounds when I play it on my stereo system

Apart from VL Uncut, the other releases on vinyl have been pretty good, imo, Atlantic City included.

The YouTube clip didn't sound bad to me, and that's 128kbps. I expect the discs will be good. And yeah, VL Uncut I don't know what happened to that one. I haven't even played it all the way through.

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DandelionPowderman
I'll make up my mind about how the mix sounds when I play it on my stereo system

Apart from VL Uncut, the other releases on vinyl have been pretty good, imo, Atlantic City included.

VL Uncut was definitively a flop.
For the rest they found a solution. Put guitars as far left/right as you can, center bass and vocals, bust 120Hz to bump your stomach, cut a bit most annoying 3kHz and compress everything as hard as you can.

In that case everything will be heard on cheap headphones in noisy environment . Actually, they did it to new Japanese remaster of LA Friday and Hampton, Bridges to Argentina, Bridges to Bremen, Steel Wheels Atlantic City 1989. Although for the bonus disc in Steel Wheels Superdeluxe they overdid 120Hz bust One can barely listen to that even on cheap sound system.

Surely, LP releases is a bit different story.

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frankotero
The YouTube clip didn't sound bad to me, and that's 128kbps. I expect the discs will be good. And yeah, VL Uncut I don't know what happened to that one. I haven't even played it all the way through.

Same 'ere! The VL Uncut is impossible to enjoy, the 2 B2B releases sound real good I think.

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ironbelly

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DandelionPowderman
I'll make up my mind about how the mix sounds when I play it on my stereo system

Apart from VL Uncut, the other releases on vinyl have been pretty good, imo, Atlantic City included.

VL Uncut was definitively a flop.
For the rest they found a solution. Put guitars as far left/right as you can, center bass and vocals, bust 120Hz to bump your stomach, cut a bit most annoying 3kHz and compress everything as hard as you can.

In that case everything will be heard on cheap headphones in noisy environment . Actually, they did it to new Japanese remaster of LA Friday and Hampton, Bridges to Argentina, Bridges to Bremen, Steel Wheels Atlantic City 1989. Although for the bonus disc in Steel Wheels Superdeluxe they overdid 120Hz bust One can barely listen to that even on cheap sound system.

Surely, LP releases is a bit different story.

That's how it's done these days.

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StonedRambler

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AntoineParis
Bob Clearmountain seems to be "too expensive" for those kind of project now...

poor us

That's also what I think. Still I wonder why they engage Sam Wheat again and again while he keeps on delivering these poor mixes. Ever since Voodoo Lounge Uncut the should have searched for a different engineer.
I guess Mick has to like them with what's left of his hearing.

It's obvious Mick (the Stones) don't listen to the mixes and, duh, don't care. These releases are beyond their reach, which translates to 'why bother' when it can just be done and that's that. Maybe they're told 'it'll be good' etc and that's just good enough seeing that, pre LICKS, they (Mick) cared.

Ever since, the "remastering" of their 1971-2005 catalog with Disastrous Marcussen, no one (that might count) has pressed Mick about why the quality has been so bad. The Stones just don't give a shit because it's been done "so much" I'll guess.

It has occurred to me that these releases are not really meant to be listened to, they are meant more as a souvenir than an actual musical product. The poor (and probably quick and cheap) mix makes me think this more and more. I don't think anyone listens to or cares to listen to the final product, and when they do, they don't really listen, they just "oh yeah its the rolling stones, great..." and go on to the next project. And it always does seem like that from the promo material they release, its all about the location or the beach or something other than the music. Which, lets face it, is pretty darn pedestrian in scenes like this. Way more sizzle than steak as they used to say. And so the actual release reflects this.

Hopefully they got some 69 coming our way. That would go a long ways toward excusing this sad state of affairs.

jb

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jbwelda
It has occurred to me that these releases are not really meant to be listened to, they are meant more as a souvenir than an actual musical product. The poor (and probably quick and cheap) mix makes me think this more and more. I don't think anyone listens to or cares to listen to the final product, and when they do, they don't really listen, they just "oh yeah its the rolling stones, great..." and go on to the next project. And it always does seem like that from the promo material they release, its all about the location or the beach or something other than the music. Which, lets face it, is pretty darn pedestrian in scenes like this. Way more sizzle than steak as they used to say. And so the actual release reflects this.

Hopefully they got some 69 coming our way. That would go a long ways toward excusing this sad state of affairs.

jb

Seemingly, they're meant to sound ok on any device (like ironbelly mentioned above). Those with a good sound system will suffer the most, though.

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jbwelda

Hopefully they got some 69 coming our way. That would go a long ways toward excusing this sad state of affairs.

jb

ummm...

Such a fuss over a product you pretty much already have. And if Salt Lake is a bonus, it's not different from all the other shows of that time. It truly is for the souvenir hoarders who have to have everything, regardless of quality.

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24FPS
Such a fuss over a product you pretty much already have. And if Salt Lake is a bonus, it's not different from all the other shows of that time. It truly is for the souvenir hoarders who have to have everything, regardless of quality.

This is true, although the Zilker Park-show (the only officially released one) is very different to a regular ABB-show.

As a document of the ABB-tour Salt Lake might be a more representative show (for better or worse, if we need that).

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DandelionPowderman

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24FPS
Such a fuss over a product you pretty much already have. And if Salt Lake is a bonus, it's not different from all the other shows of that time. It truly is for the souvenir hoarders who have to have everything, regardless of quality.

This is true, although the Zilker Park-show (the only officially released one) is very different to a regular ABB-show.

As a document of the ABB-tour Salt Lake might be a more representative show (for better or worse, if we need that).

Yes, you don't hear Pierre de Beauport on any other Show! The overdubs destroy Austin completely for me but it has it's moments

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hockenheim95

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DandelionPowderman

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24FPS
Such a fuss over a product you pretty much already have. And if Salt Lake is a bonus, it's not different from all the other shows of that time. It truly is for the souvenir hoarders who have to have everything, regardless of quality.

This is true, although the Zilker Park-show (the only officially released one) is very different to a regular ABB-show.

As a document of the ABB-tour Salt Lake might be a more representative show (for better or worse, if we need that).

Yes, you don't hear Pierre de Beauport on any other Show! The overdubs destroy Austin completely for me but it has it's moments

Haha, no (hopefully)!

And some of the songs they played in Texas were obviously hand-picked since they planned to release the show (Learning The Game, Bob Willis Is Still The King etc.).

5-Track digital EP - A Little Bang (Bigger Bang Tour EP):

1. Sympathy For The Devil (Live) - 8:01
2. Wild Horses (Live) - 5:37
3. You Got Me Rocking (Live) - 3:34
4. Happy (Live) - 3:54
5. Rough Justice (Live) - 3:34



[open.Spotify.com] , [Music.Apple.com] , [www.Qobuz.com] , [www.Amazon.com] , [www.Deezer.com] , [listen.Tidal.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-29 20:40 by Irix.

In reality, since 1989, the shows are mostly the same (or very similar).

The setlist variety is what I generally go for. For example, I wanted "Memory Motel" with no Dave Matthews, so I bought Bremen.

Actually, I have bought most of the live releases, as there are usually one or two "rarities". on each. "Emotional Rescue" from Sweet Summer Sun is another one.

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Irix
5-Track digital EP:

1. Sympathy For The Devil (Live) - 8:01
2. Wild Horses (Live) - 5:37
3. You Got Me Rocking (Live) - 3:34
4. Happy (Live) - 3:54
5. Rough Justice (Live) - 3:34



[Music.Apple.com] , [www.Qobuz.com]

The mix is so bad it's really unbelievable. Wild Horses sounds like he's singing through a telephone. And not even a good one.
Strangely enough, the Salt Lake mix seems actually quite good.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-27 21:22 by StonedRambler.

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Elmo Lewis
In reality, since 1989, the shows are mostly the same (or very similar).

The setlist variety is what I generally go for. For example, I wanted "Memory Motel" with no Dave Matthews, so I bought Bremen.

Actually, I have bought most of the live releases, as there are usually one or two "rarities". on each. "Emotional Rescue" from Sweet Summer Sun is another one.

I'm lucky to have an excellent Library, the Brand, near me in Los Angeles. They get almost all the Stones DVD releases. There are some I watch out of curiosity, Sticky Fingers at the Fonda, that I know I'll never watch again. Some are still on Netflix too. And Bill Wyman's The Quiet One is on Hulu.

Maybe it's due to the source material though it's hard to believe that a concert is recorded differently to others from the same tour (same mics, same amps etc).

But compare Bremen 98 to other BtB shows. The TV broadcast also sounded quite sharp and metallic. Others like Chicago, Buenos Aires etc. got a more warm sound. Though the mix of Bridges to Bremen is different to the broadcast it has got the same sharp sound whereas the Argentina release has a more warm sound like it has been captured on nearly all audience recordings of the tour.

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StonedRambler

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Irix
5-Track digital EP:

1. Sympathy For The Devil (Live) - 8:01
2. Wild Horses (Live) - 5:37
3. You Got Me Rocking (Live) - 3:34
4. Happy (Live) - 3:54
5. Rough Justice (Live) - 3:34



[Music.Apple.com] , [www.Qobuz.com]

The mix is so bad it's really unbelievable. Wild Horses sounds like he's singing through a telephone. And not even a good one.
Strangely enough, the Salt Lake mix seems actually quite good.

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henrik87
Maybe it's due to the source material though it's hard to believe that a concert is recorded differently to others from the same tour (same mics, same amps etc).

But compare Bremen 98 to other BtB shows. The TV broadcast also sounded quite sharp and metallic. Others like Chicago, Buenos Aires etc. got a more warm sound. Though the mix of Bridges to Bremen is different to the broadcast it has got the same sharp sound whereas the Argentina release has a more warm sound like it has been captured on nearly all audience recordings of the tour.

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StonedRambler

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Irix
5-Track digital EP:

1. Sympathy For The Devil (Live) - 8:01
2. Wild Horses (Live) - 5:37
3. You Got Me Rocking (Live) - 3:34
4. Happy (Live) - 3:54
5. Rough Justice (Live) - 3:34



[Music.Apple.com] , [www.Qobuz.com]

The mix is so bad it's really unbelievable. Wild Horses sounds like he's singing through a telephone. And not even a good one.
Strangely enough, the Salt Lake mix seems actually quite good.

I remember thinking that back when the PPV was aired. The new mix is different. I'm quite happy with it. It sounded thinner originally, imo.

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henrik87
Maybe it's due to the source material though it's hard to believe that a concert is recorded differently to others from the same tour (same mics, same amps etc).

But compare Bremen 98 to other BtB shows. The TV broadcast also sounded quite sharp and metallic. Others like Chicago, Buenos Aires etc. got a more warm sound. Though the mix of Bridges to Bremen is different to the broadcast it has got the same sharp sound whereas the Argentina release has a more warm sound like it has been captured on nearly all audience recordings of the tour.

This time it can't be the source material though since Copacabana was already released with a really good sounding mix by Bob Clearmountain.

Listen for yourself:
The old mix by Bob Clearmountain: [youtu.be]
The new mix by Sam Wheat: [youtu.be]

Anyone who still hears above 10KHz will hear that the new mix has almost no high end information at all.
It's like someone just cut off all the high end. You can barely hear Keith is playing an acoustic guitar since all the high frequencies are gone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-28 12:15 by StonedRambler.

Omg horrible. Let's hope the real thing sounds better..

The EP (listened on Apple Music now) - Stones playing great, mix is unfortunately very bad :-(

Just listened to Us and Them from Waters‘ Amsterdam concert. Then I put on the Little Bang EP. From excellence in sound to thinking my system‘s broken. Don‘t they care just a little bit?!!

Haha, they care so little they didn't bother to edit songs to flow evenly. After Wild Horses the next song Rain Fall Down is introduced. Miss You was starting before Rough Justice. The other thing I noticed is the audience sound is up and down like a wave, don't know a better way to explain it. And the Bass could have been inched up a little. Oh well. As usual we just can't be satisfied, pun intended.

wild horse from original and from this new mix is so different that it's like from other show where Keith plays electric guitar, what they did with the acoustic guitar or Keith's back vocal, even on old version U can hear blonde' acoustik guitar, or this dude on mix is magician or no idea.

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RollingTbilisiStones
wild horse from original and from this new mix is so different that it's like from other show where Keith plays electric guitar, what they did with the acoustic guitar or Keith's back vocal, even on old version U can hear blonde' acoustik guitar, or this dude on mix is magician or no idea.

An acoustic guitar has lots of high frequencies whereas electric guitar amps cut off everything above 10Khz. Therefore you cut off all the high frequencies (like Sam Wheat did on this mix) of an acoustic guitar recording it will kinda sound like an electric guitar.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-05-28 22:56 by StonedRambler.