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Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: gastonl74 ()
Date: February 23, 2021 15:22

Quote
GasLightStreet
What I've always found so interesting is how awful the sound they put out for the TATTOO YOU tours works great with Under My Thumb, When The Whip Comes Down, Imagination, Time Is On My Side, Going To A Go-Go, Let Me Go, Let It Bleed and even Honky Tonk Women but the rest of it is awful, which is more of a result of the rushed and frantic performances grinding against the twanky bright trebly sound, which, bizarrely, on some tunes the heave of Wyman's playing is fantastically audible and provides great audio examples of his and Charlie's interaction.

.

totally agree!
tour `81 I always liked the first part, after Let It Bleed, they sound very fast and messy! horrible versions of Hang Fire, Shes So Cold, etc.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: MadMax ()
Date: February 23, 2021 15:29

Quote
gastonl74
Quote
GasLightStreet
What I've always found so interesting is how awful the sound they put out for the TATTOO YOU tours works great with Under My Thumb, When The Whip Comes Down, Imagination, Time Is On My Side, Going To A Go-Go, Let Me Go, Let It Bleed and even Honky Tonk Women but the rest of it is awful, which is more of a result of the rushed and frantic performances grinding against the twanky bright trebly sound, which, bizarrely, on some tunes the heave of Wyman's playing is fantastically audible and provides great audio examples of his and Charlie's interaction.

.

totally agree!
tour `81 I always liked the first part, after Let It Bleed, they sound very fast and messy! horrible versions of Hang Fire, Shes So Cold, etc.

thumbs up

Yeah, the first 9 songs in Hampton are perfect, 8 in standard Keith and 20 Flight in open G. I usually just watch the first 7 songs and finish with the wonderful Imagination. That's a perfect mini-concert before ya hit town!smileys with beer



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-02-23 15:30 by MadMax.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Date: February 23, 2021 16:43

Quote
gastonl74
Quote
GasLightStreet
What I've always found so interesting is how awful the sound they put out for the TATTOO YOU tours works great with Under My Thumb, When The Whip Comes Down, Imagination, Time Is On My Side, Going To A Go-Go, Let Me Go, Let It Bleed and even Honky Tonk Women but the rest of it is awful, which is more of a result of the rushed and frantic performances grinding against the twanky bright trebly sound, which, bizarrely, on some tunes the heave of Wyman's playing is fantastically audible and provides great audio examples of his and Charlie's interaction.

.

totally agree!
tour `81 I always liked the first part, after Let It Bleed, they sound very fast and messy! horrible versions of Hang Fire, Shes So Cold, etc.

What about YCAGWYW, TD and Miss You?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-02-23 16:43 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: February 23, 2021 17:21

One observation about the 81/82 tour: Neither of the Tattoo You songs came out good live. I think they slaughtered SMU for instance.
Uninspiring. Black Limousine might be the exception though. It sounded pretty good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-02-23 17:27 by Stoneage.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: liddas ()
Date: February 23, 2021 17:54

Quote
Stoneage
One observation about the 81/82 tour: Neither of the Tattoo You songs came out good live. I think they slaughtered SMU for instance.
Uninspiring. Black Limousine might be the exception though. It sounded pretty good.

Loved Start Me Up, Limo was great, Neighbours fantastic, T&A a sloppy masterpiece.

Hang Fire was played well but it is not one of the greatest of SToenes songs

C

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Date: February 23, 2021 18:54

Quote
Stoneage
One observation about the 81/82 tour: Neither of the Tattoo You songs came out good live. I think they slaughtered SMU for instance.
Uninspiring. Black Limousine might be the exception though. It sounded pretty good.

Neighbours was great! I really like the 81 version of Hang Fire as well. In 1982 the horn arrangement was a little corny.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: ryanpow ()
Date: February 23, 2021 22:08

Maybe a clunker here and there (SMU being one) but overall the set was great in 81. I like how the second half had more songs without horns. Otherwise it would have been overkill.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-02-23 22:14 by ryanpow.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: February 24, 2021 02:12

Quote
Stoneage
One observation about the 81/82 tour: Neither of the Tattoo You songs came out good live. I think they slaughtered SMU for instance.
Uninspiring. Black Limousine might be the exception though. It sounded pretty good.

As for Start Me Up, sort of liked the studio version when it was released as it was exciting to have a brand new Stones single and album,
but by the time I saw the band live less than two months later the thrill was gone as far as that tune is concerned - especially after hearing it live.
It's not really a horrible tune, and the riff is no doubt iconic, but overall it comes across like a generic cartoon version of the Stones that sort of plods along imo.

________________
Keep on rolling.......

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: February 24, 2021 02:45

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
gastonl74
Quote
GasLightStreet
What I've always found so interesting is how awful the sound they put out for the TATTOO YOU tours works great with Under My Thumb, When The Whip Comes Down, Imagination, Time Is On My Side, Going To A Go-Go, Let Me Go, Let It Bleed and even Honky Tonk Women but the rest of it is awful, which is more of a result of the rushed and frantic performances grinding against the twanky bright trebly sound, which, bizarrely, on some tunes the heave of Wyman's playing is fantastically audible and provides great audio examples of his and Charlie's interaction.

.

totally agree!
tour `81 I always liked the first part, after Let It Bleed, they sound very fast and messy! horrible versions of Hang Fire, Shes So Cold, etc.

What about YCAGWYW, TD and Miss You?

Jagger's grunt singing was a bit too much with those! It's nice to appreciate how they did them differently, especially with so many other live versions to compare them to, they're just not as well performed as they were on other tours.

Some of the messiness was interesting though. Neighbours and Hang Fire, as frantic and torn as they were, give that kind of grounding for what overall sets the tone for the 1981-82 tours. Perhaps if they hadn't done so many songs they might've played a bit slower. Even with the long songs like YCAGWYW and Miss You and Brown Sugar... it kind of seems like they had to fly through everything because there was so much. I dunno. They certainly did better versions of those before and after these two tours. What's funny for me is I like how messed up they are, but critically, they're just not very good.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: February 24, 2021 02:55

Funny how ya see Mick fan guys at Stones
shows and they usually dress up like Mick
in the tights from the 81-82 tour ....

Elvis ... well all those guys get
done up in the 70 era jumpsuit ... hardly
ever see em done-up up as 50's style Elvis ...well maybe in Japan



ROCKMAN

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Date: February 24, 2021 10:07

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
gastonl74
Quote
GasLightStreet
What I've always found so interesting is how awful the sound they put out for the TATTOO YOU tours works great with Under My Thumb, When The Whip Comes Down, Imagination, Time Is On My Side, Going To A Go-Go, Let Me Go, Let It Bleed and even Honky Tonk Women but the rest of it is awful, which is more of a result of the rushed and frantic performances grinding against the twanky bright trebly sound, which, bizarrely, on some tunes the heave of Wyman's playing is fantastically audible and provides great audio examples of his and Charlie's interaction.

.

totally agree!
tour `81 I always liked the first part, after Let It Bleed, they sound very fast and messy! horrible versions of Hang Fire, Shes So Cold, etc.

What about YCAGWYW, TD and Miss You?

Jagger's grunt singing was a bit too much with those! It's nice to appreciate how they did them differently, especially with so many other live versions to compare them to, they're just not as well performed as they were on other tours.

Some of the messiness was interesting though. Neighbours and Hang Fire, as frantic and torn as they were, give that kind of grounding for what overall sets the tone for the 1981-82 tours. Perhaps if they hadn't done so many songs they might've played a bit slower. Even with the long songs like YCAGWYW and Miss You and Brown Sugar... it kind of seems like they had to fly through everything because there was so much. I dunno. They certainly did better versions of those before and after these two tours. What's funny for me is I like how messed up they are, but critically, they're just not very good.

I mentioned those songs because they weren't as messed up or rushed as some other numbers smiling smiley

An interesting thing with YCAGWYW from the 1982-tour is that Ronnie does a slide solo on it - very different, but I like it.





[www.youtube.com]

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: February 24, 2021 11:31

Ernie Watts added quite a lot to the 81 live sound. He added a sophistication and a lyricism that makes him the equal of Nicky Hopkins in 72 (I know not on the same instrument...).
Just listen to the bunch of 81 shows with Lee Allen (who was totally clueless about blending his playing into the Stones' live sound) to realize how great Watts was.
In 82 he wasn't there and Gene Barge didn't quite make up for the loss.

So basically the band was back to "square one" that is the very early 81 shows that had no sax, so they played hard and fast. Listen to the intro of "Whip" from the 1st Paris show and it's a relentless salvo of "duh-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh-duh". Almost Slayer-like!

81 or 82? I like both!

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Date: February 24, 2021 12:37

<In 82 he (Gene Barge) wasn't there and Gene Barge didn't quite make up for the loss>

Bobby was pretty good, though smiling smiley

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: February 24, 2021 14:33

Bobby has some signature lines. Classic Stones stuff. But he can't be compared to Ernie Watts. Ernie brings jazz to the table.
Lyricism, interaction and fluidity. Pure musicality. Which adds another factor to the music.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: February 25, 2021 05:01

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
gastonl74
Quote
GasLightStreet
What I've always found so interesting is how awful the sound they put out for the TATTOO YOU tours works great with Under My Thumb, When The Whip Comes Down, Imagination, Time Is On My Side, Going To A Go-Go, Let Me Go, Let It Bleed and even Honky Tonk Women but the rest of it is awful, which is more of a result of the rushed and frantic performances grinding against the twanky bright trebly sound, which, bizarrely, on some tunes the heave of Wyman's playing is fantastically audible and provides great audio examples of his and Charlie's interaction.

.

totally agree!
tour `81 I always liked the first part, after Let It Bleed, they sound very fast and messy! horrible versions of Hang Fire, Shes So Cold, etc.

What about YCAGWYW, TD and Miss You?

Jagger's grunt singing was a bit too much with those! It's nice to appreciate how they did them differently, especially with so many other live versions to compare them to, they're just not as well performed as they were on other tours.

Some of the messiness was interesting though. Neighbours and Hang Fire, as frantic and torn as they were, give that kind of grounding for what overall sets the tone for the 1981-82 tours. Perhaps if they hadn't done so many songs they might've played a bit slower. Even with the long songs like YCAGWYW and Miss You and Brown Sugar... it kind of seems like they had to fly through everything because there was so much. I dunno. They certainly did better versions of those before and after these two tours. What's funny for me is I like how messed up they are, but critically, they're just not very good.

I mentioned those songs because they weren't as messed up or rushed as some other numbers smiling smiley

An interesting thing with YCAGWYW from the 1982-tour is that Ronnie does a slide solo on it - very different, but I like it.





[www.youtube.com]

HA HA yes, those you mentioned are not frantic and rushed.

Somehow I've never heard that one of Ronnie playing slide. Charlie is all over the place! Interesting version.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: February 25, 2021 13:20

Ernie added a nice flavor to the tour. It gave the Stones a bit of a different sound. It helped make 1981 different. I thought that Ernie overplayed a bit but that's okay, the Stones are excellent editors.

Ernie was great on Going to a Go-Go. It wouldn't have been the same with any other sax player. I've heard Bobby play Go-Go on occasion and it just isn't the same (okay, as good). Bobby is the best sax player ever in rock history!

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: ryanpow ()
Date: February 26, 2021 03:32

Quote
DandelionPowderman


An interesting thing with YCAGWYW from the 1982-tour is that Ronnie does a slide solo on it - very different, but I like it.





[www.youtube.com]

This is a cool version. I prefer it to 81' actually.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: Kennedy ()
Date: February 26, 2021 06:01

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
GasLightStreet
I can't remember who generally chimes in about Bobby on this tour. Doxa, perhaps. If I recall correctly, har har, Bobby joined in around 3/4 of the US tour and was on the entire 1982 tour.

Bobby joined from October 9 in LA, and stayed until the end. So he played 90% of the tour.

The second part of the 1981 is far better than 1982 in my opinion. In 1981 they still were the big bad Rolling Stones, in 1982 the horns became way too orchestrated and Chuck Leavell injected a healthy dose of non-RnR into the Stones.

Mathijs

Bobby's presence was far more sporadic through the 81 tour and was certainly nowhere near 90% of the 81 tour. I assume you mean Ernie was 90% of the tour? It's Ernie being introduced on the majority of the 81 boots, and it was Ernie only when I saw them in Chicago on 11/23.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: February 26, 2021 10:14

Quote
ryanpow
Quote
DandelionPowderman


YCAGWYW from the 1982-tour





[www.youtube.com]

This is a cool version. I prefer it to 81' actually.

To me the mid-section (with the solos) is very weak : they sound like they noodle and await for Jagger to come back onstage.
Keef looks and sounds very good though... grinning smiley thumbs up

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: February 26, 2021 14:29

Quote
Kennedy
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
GasLightStreet
I can't remember who generally chimes in about Bobby on this tour. Doxa, perhaps. If I recall correctly, har har, Bobby joined in around 3/4 of the US tour and was on the entire 1982 tour.

Bobby joined from October 9 in LA, and stayed until the end. So he played 90% of the tour.

The second part of the 1981 is far better than 1982 in my opinion. In 1981 they still were the big bad Rolling Stones, in 1982 the horns became way too orchestrated and Chuck Leavell injected a healthy dose of non-RnR into the Stones.

Mathijs

Bobby's presence was far more sporadic through the 81 tour and was certainly nowhere near 90% of the 81 tour. I assume you mean Ernie was 90% of the tour? It's Ernie being introduced on the majority of the 81 boots, and it was Ernie only when I saw them in Chicago on 11/23.

No it wasn't sporadic. Bobby came on the tour starting in LA, playing on Let It Bleed, Brown Sugar, Tumbling Dice and Honky Tonk Women.

Mathijs

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: saltoftheearth ()
Date: February 26, 2021 15:38

Quote
Stoneage
Hard to tell. There are very few recordings with professional quality around. Especially from the 1982 tour. Hampton, LSTNT and Leeds are the ones that comes to mind.

There must have been a complte audience recoding of the first show at Munich, 10 June (Willkommen in Munchen) but I never saw it as a botleg, and it obviously never appeared on Youtube. Only 'Chantilly lace', obne of the worst songs in the setlist IMHO was published on Youtube.

The concert, however, was great. I still have some pictures.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: February 26, 2021 15:50

There are lots of audience recordings around, Salt of the Earth. I'm talking about professional recordings. I wouldn't bother with audience recordings - even if they are from a gig I attended.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Date: February 26, 2021 18:17

Quote
Stoneage
There are lots of audience recordings around, Salt of the Earth. I'm talking about professional recordings. I wouldn't bother with audience recordings - even if they are from a gig I attended.

Just about all of the 1981 shows are available in soundboard quality (often in mono, though). I can't recall whether it was Naples or Turin (or both) from 1982 that was a soundboard recording. Good shows.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: stanlove ()
Date: February 26, 2021 18:49

Quote
Stoneage
One observation about the 81/82 tour: Neither of the Tattoo You songs came out good live. I think they slaughtered SMU for instance.
Uninspiring. Black Limousine might be the exception though. It sounded pretty good.

Agreed. 1981 was their worst tour ever. They just basically butchered their own songs for 2 hours. The crowds were dead and disappointed. Not sure about 1982.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: caschimann ()
Date: February 26, 2021 18:56

Quote
stanlove
Quote
Stoneage
One observation about the 81/82 tour: Neither of the Tattoo You songs came out good live. I think they slaughtered SMU for instance.
Uninspiring. Black Limousine might be the exception though. It sounded pretty good.

Agreed. 1981 was their worst tour ever. They just basically butchered their own songs for 2 hours. The crowds were dead and disappointed. Not sure about 1982.

Which gig you have seen 1981? Was it Philly 1+2?

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: stanlove ()
Date: February 26, 2021 19:30

Quote
caschimann
Quote
stanlove
Quote
Stoneage
One observation about the 81/82 tour: Neither of the Tattoo You songs came out good live. I think they slaughtered SMU for instance.
Uninspiring. Black Limousine might be the exception though. It sounded pretty good.

Agreed. 1981 was their worst tour ever. They just basically butchered their own songs for 2 hours. The crowds were dead and disappointed. Not sure about 1982.

Which gig you have seen 1981? Was it Philly 1+2?

Buffalo and Syracuse and I have also watched every video that was taken during that tour. Butchered song and dead crowd basically every concert.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: February 26, 2021 21:25

Quote
stanlove
Quote
caschimann
Quote
stanlove
Quote
Stoneage
One observation about the 81/82 tour: Neither of the Tattoo You songs came out good live. I think they slaughtered SMU for instance.
Uninspiring. Black Limousine might be the exception though. It sounded pretty good.

Agreed. 1981 was their worst tour ever. They just basically butchered their own songs for 2 hours. The crowds were dead and disappointed. Not sure about 1982.

Which gig you have seen 1981? Was it Philly 1+2?

Buffalo and Syracuse and I have also watched every video that was taken during that tour. Butchered song and dead crowd basically every concert.

Orlando was lots of fun!

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: February 28, 2021 04:21

Quote
stanlove
Quote
caschimann
Quote
stanlove
Quote
Stoneage
One observation about the 81/82 tour: Neither of the Tattoo You songs came out good live. I think they slaughtered SMU for instance.
Uninspiring. Black Limousine might be the exception though. It sounded pretty good.

Agreed. 1981 was their worst tour ever. They just basically butchered their own songs for 2 hours. The crowds were dead and disappointed. Not sure about 1982.

Which gig you have seen 1981? Was it Philly 1+2?

Buffalo and Syracuse and I have also watched every video that was taken during that tour. Butchered song and dead crowd basically every concert.

The video I've seen of Buffalo shows a crowd that is not dead - they're clapping along and they even cheer after songs.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Date: February 28, 2021 13:50

Quote
stanlove
Quote
Stoneage
One observation about the 81/82 tour: Neither of the Tattoo You songs came out good live. I think they slaughtered SMU for instance.
Uninspiring. Black Limousine might be the exception though. It sounded pretty good.

Agreed. 1981 was their worst tour ever. They just basically butchered their own songs for 2 hours. The crowds were dead and disappointed. Not sure about 1982.

The problem with statements like these is that they're so easy to prove wrong.

I have no problems with your opinion, though.But we're really beyond personal opinions here, because the facts are in the recordings.

Re: 1982 vs 1981
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: February 28, 2021 14:01

To defend Stanlove a bit: There can be a huge difference between a professional recording (including edits) and your personal experience of a gig (or two).
The 81/82 sound production was not all that impressive and if you caught a position far back in the crowd I can understand someone's disappointment.

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