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how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: drewmaster ()
Date: January 12, 2021 17:50

I've always wondered how much input the Glimmer Twins have into Charlie's drumming when they're all recording tracks in the studio.

How often they'll offer suggestions (e.g., an extra tap on the hi-hat here, a snare roll there, etc.)

Or if they leave Charlie alone to do his thing.

Drew

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: stickyfingers101 ()
Date: January 12, 2021 17:59

I'd bet "suggestions" were very frequent....they let him do his thing but threw in lots of "hey, try this...what if you did this?" type stuff....

I would assume there was a lot of "suggestions" from All Stones on lots of things outside their "specialty".....

I have no proof of any of this, so please be kind if I am being ignorant of the reality....

I'm just speculating....I feel like any band w/o a mutual "give and take" on all aspects will fail....or suck.

or if they have it, then lose the "give and take" they'll end up like Pink Floyd.

....whom I love....

just my opinion.

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: Boognish ()
Date: January 12, 2021 18:36

I haven't watched Godard's Sympathy For The Devil in a very long time but I seem to recall that there were some moments where Mick and/or Keith were giving Charlie suggestions on how to play his part. Am I wrong?

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: Roscoe ()
Date: January 13, 2021 07:20

"I'm not your drummer. You're my singer." grinning smiley

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: DGA35 ()
Date: January 13, 2021 08:45

YCAGWYW: Mick: It proved to be quite difficult to record because Charlie couldn't play the groove so Jimmy Miller had to play the drums.

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Date: January 13, 2021 10:11

There are som incidents: YCAGWYW is mentioned. Bobby clapping besides Charlie during Ventilator Blues. Miller playing the last half of Tumbling Dice.

But this is very common. On Happy, for instance, Charlie wasn't present at all, so Miller played.

There are some directions given by Mick and Keith on the Satanic Sessions regarding the drumming, if memory serves. Then again, they were doing the arranging in the studio, seemingly.

I wonder who suggested the beat on 2000 Man? That's a highly unusual one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-13 10:57 by DandelionPowderman.

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: SKILLS ()
Date: January 13, 2021 10:55

Miller was a genius, an absolute genius, he saw the goal and drove them to score

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: DiamondDog7 ()
Date: January 13, 2021 11:17

Charlie could use some advice during recording of Cherry Oh Baby! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: peoplewitheyes ()
Date: January 13, 2021 11:52

I wish Charlie would play some more interesting beats. I haven't heard much variation from him for a few decades

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: January 13, 2021 11:57

Suggestions but doubt
there'd be any hard rules ....



ROCKMAN

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: doitywoik ()
Date: January 13, 2021 14:26

Quote
DiamondDog7
Charlie could use some advice during recording of Cherry Oh Baby! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

I recall an interview from decades ago where (I believe) Keith said they (or he) spent quite some time teaching Charlie a way to do the drumming on that song. Like, Charlie didn't want to do the drumming because he felt he wouldn't get that beat despite trying hard. Maybe someone (Rockman?) can come up with that interview?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-13 14:55 by doitywoik.

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: January 13, 2021 14:38

Suggestions by any of the band members during recording sessions is a healthy thing and will lead to a better end result (off course anyone's taste may say differently).
But .... during the concerts it's Charlie that sets the rules (according to Keith, who often has said that he follows Charlie ...). On songs (also YCOGWYW or TD for that matter) Charlie does the drumming (sometimes with support of bongo's, etc.).
"Charlie is good tonight, he"
winking smiley

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: z ()
Date: January 13, 2021 14:57

"Don't go mad with a drums solo..."

[youtu.be]

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Date: January 14, 2021 00:53

You can hear in the Stones the in Exile film an excerpt where Keith politely but restrictively indicates Charlie what to play. Very interesting.

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: DGA35 ()
Date: January 14, 2021 01:01

You can notice a change in Charlie's drumming style once they started using Jimmy Miller.

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: January 14, 2021 04:07

I think they all just communicated by saying things like, 'let's try that a different way,' and then exchanging looks to communicate if they liked it or not.
As Bill's Astrid wrote, they are not confrontational people, being proper reserved Englishmen.

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: Mr. Jimi ()
Date: January 14, 2021 04:31

I would imagine its a relaxed sort of thing where either mick or keith or both come in with a song and say to Charlie it goes like this "boom bam boom" etc and he picks it right up. Or they just jam a riff and Charlie just plays whatever the groove is. I'm sure there are also times where either mick or keith or the producer chimes in and says try it like this or whatever.

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: January 14, 2021 05:05

Wonder how much Charlie changed
Micks drumming on the early Bang demos ....



ROCKMAN

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: January 14, 2021 11:29

Am I right in thinking that Charlie's skills are not highly regarded in jazz circles? I recollect this been alluded to this in the documentary, Beware of Mr Baker.

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: Mariuana ()
Date: January 16, 2021 23:23

I recall reading Charlie was not happy when Jimmy Miller played his part when he himself could not. He was angry and left the room. It gave me impression Charlie was not exactly one to like it when somebody does his job. Though Mick played drums in the studio sometimes ... I always wondered what Charlie thought of that. I think his bond with Mick and Keith was strong so most of the time he just knew what they wanted.

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: January 18, 2021 21:31

Quote
emotionalbarbecue
You can hear in the Stones the in Exile film an excerpt where Keith politely but restrictively indicates Charlie what to play. Very interesting.

"Charlie? Did you get that? We're gonna try that because it would be really nice to try to change the drum sound when it comes back in again, you know?"

It's most likely the suggestions made to Charlie are in the line of 'this is where the vocal comes in so do' whatever or here's the bridge...

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: January 18, 2021 21:52

Another one! Kind of, about 35:50.

Mick: Shit. No no no! No!

Keith: The same again, leave it a whole lot of room... Now, Charlie don't come in until later. Play later on the scene.

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: January 18, 2021 23:22

Quote
Big Al
Am I right in thinking that Charlie's skills are not highly regarded in jazz circles? I recollect this been alluded to this in the documentary, Beware of Mr Baker.

Those jazz circles were most likely snobbish and intimidated at the same time

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: StonedAsiaExile ()
Date: January 20, 2021 07:42

Quote
Nikkei
Quote
Big Al
Am I right in thinking that Charlie's skills are not highly regarded in jazz circles? I recollect this been alluded to this in the documentary, Beware of Mr Baker.

Those jazz circles were most likely snobbish and intimidated at the same time

Maybe but he loves playing and that is good enough for me.

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: January 20, 2021 11:31

Quote
Big Al
Am I right in thinking that Charlie's skills are not highly regarded in jazz circles? I recollect this been alluded to this in the documentary, Beware of Mr Baker.

Don't know much about those circles, but I think the basic view is that he is not much noted, if not at all. He hasn't really contributed in jazz music to be evaluated properly. His brief solo adventures in that direction are pretty basic stuff - I guess nothing to bash, but nothing to much praise either. Ok stuff, but nothing to really write home about. And I guess Charlie would be the first to admit it. And as far as the Stones stuff go, no matter how tasty and fitting and unique his swinging drumming there is, I don't think that it much interests jazz lovers. It's still 'just' simple pop music...

I think Charlie is a master in which he does: uses his jazz instincts and training in the context of a blues-based rock band. The result is a swing no other rock band has. There is no one like him. Like with all the proper Stones members (except Mick Taylor supposedly), to appreciate him as a player is to like the noise the Stones as a unit makes...

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-20 11:39 by Doxa.

Re: how much input do Mick and Keith have into Charlie's drumming (in the studio)?
Posted by: saltoftheearth ()
Date: January 20, 2021 12:30

I think it's quite normal that you listen to a tape and think the sond could sound better. This is the creative process. Don't you think that any band member was 'corrected' sometimes? And though I am no expert in the Music Business I think that even Mick or Keith frequently thought 'I have to redo this, it does not yet sound right'. Nobody is perfect, not even the twoof them….



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