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kovach

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MisterDDDD
CROWD: Fight for Trump. Fight for Trump. Fight for Trump. Fight for Trump. Fight for Trump. Fight for Trump.

This is the problem with American politics. It's not just trump, "fight" is used by every politician no matter which party, and every time I hear it I hate it. I don't elect people to fight, I elect them to get things done. I can turn on boxing if I want to see people fight.

I'm just glad all media and both parties now condemn rioting, though still far too many singularly focused on recent activity and ignoring what else took place in the last 12 months (or 12 years quite frankly). I hope Biden does what he says and tries to pull everyone together though every time he talks of this he first insults Trump voters which isn't going to help since an overwhelming majority of them disagree with the rioting at the capital earlier this week. I've read several political books over the years, I know he worked hard while in the senate and reached across the aisle so I know he has the potential, but his work in the Senate was a long time ago, and he's got a whole lot of people pulling him in extreme directions, so we'll see what happens. I worry about his age, his past brain aneurysms, but it is what it is and we'll all see how this begins to play out in less than two weeks. I'm hoping for the best even though he wasn't my first choice (and for the record neither was Trump though you can only choose amongst those on the ballot).

Couple things-

Both "parties" have condemned rioting, now and in the past.
Just as those on the right are condemning the riots that occurred at the Capitol, after what started as a protest, the left party has done the same.

Biden has never intentionally insulted Trump voters, much less "every time he talks".
If, as you say, he does it "every time he talks", cite one example.

Words matter, and we all need to be very clear and stop spreading falsehoods.

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MileHigh

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Stoneage
There is a deeper question behind this: How can a person like Mr Trump be elected in the first place? Why do more than 74 million US citizens vote for him?
What can we conclude from that. Those are the real questions. Repeating over and over that Mr Trump is a bufoon doesn't lead anywhere.

People can actually think in a way that is different from the way you want them to think. You are just going to have to accept that and deal with it. If you only realized how totalitarian you sound. It's downright creepy.

I have been thinking about this in a similiar way as Stoneage. When Trump finally has arrived at being seen as a nuisance at large, it is still thoughtprovoking how many voters that Trump won, despite his policy as to the Covid19 disease. And somewhere I read that even after this disgrace, so many as 18 (?) per cent of those asked, found it acceptable. Probably even further more still support Trump. Maybe there will be a mass basis for Trump to play some kind of role also hereafter. That is what is scary. In that case, where is the USA developing?

If you, MileHigh, find Stoneage's post and possibly mine totalitarian, please feel free to elucidate to us Scandinavians why and how that is so.

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GasLightStreet

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1962

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DandelionPowderman

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1962
Dear BV!

Why this on IORR?
I don't think this has anything to do with IORR.
Please close it!

[iorr.org]

I don't agree. There are a lot of other places for this outside of IORR.

I see people are forcing you to open this thread.

Absolutely not. A few people ask me to close it, because they don't like the facts. If you read what I posted this morning, i.e. a few hours ago, this thread was never closed, except for an hour in the morning, when I looked into false and/or offending posts. It is still open.

Bjornulf

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Stoneage
There is a deeper question behind this: How can a person like Mr Trump be elected in the first place? Why do more than 74 million US citizens vote for him?
What can we conclude from that. Those are the real questions. Repeating over and over that Mr Trump is a bufoon doesn't lead anywhere.

I was talking with someone about the 74 million Trump votes and how that represents 74 million people that are clearly ok with identifying and supporting a bigoted racist sexist selfish slave paying white supremacist that thinks he's a financial guru on daddy's money and is the only fish in his pond.

The obvious aside the reason he got elected in 2016 is not because of "the people" - the people didn't elect him - but because of the Electoral College. The EC proves that the popular vote, and if anyone chooses to not believe this that's fine but it is in the description of the EC, does not have to count. The EC is not held to go by the popular vote.

So voting for POTUS is the only vote in the USA that doesn't count, it has just happened to coincide with the EC vote many times. As typical is as typical does it is worded by the government to make it sound like voting matters.


Why was the POTUS vote the only vote considered fraudulent and not the rest of what was on the ballots?


Why was it only the Biden votes thought to be fraudulent just in those states that mattered in Biden's victory and not any other states or ANY of the Trump votes? How come the Trump votes weren't claimed as fraudulent? If one goes with the sandbox shouting from that side, the side that is supported by domestic terrorists, then there's no way Trump got 74 million votes. Strictly in sore loser terms, of course.


"We the people" is based solely on white (those Europeans that invaded North America and spread disease and were the first terrorists in history - possibly one of several reasons why white people in the US don't identify as European/Americans) property owners as voters. No one else could vote. Part of the establishment of the EC was to make sure that Southern states could keep slaves from voting. There are racist ties/connections to the EC. Only property owners could vote.

Think about that.

When people run their mouths about "America's forefathers" there seems to be a very big blind eye conveniently turned away from historical facts - just like how some religious fanatics cherry pick from the bible as to what suits their ideology to support their beliefs etc. All the talk is about the mast that stood tall and true - not about the sail that was made of the skin of... etc. "It got us there" is the only thing that matters. At the expense of... everything has consequences, and bad/wrong choices always have bad consequences, even if the choices were the best choices at the time, like... voting for the perceived lesser evil - or the misguided belief that someone is more evil than the other and that is a false narrative that becomes truth.


The EC is antiquated. It's archaic. It's out of touch. It's outmoded. It's rigid in its existence and purpose. Whatever and any words and terms used to describe something that no longer is viable fits the description of the EC - just like the two party political body in the USA.


That is how Trump got elected in the first place.

Some say the DC Capitol riot was just another riot. WRONG.

1. The US President Donald Trump organized and initiated the riot
2. The house raided was not just another house, it was the very center of the US Democracy
3. After the terror attack was a fact, Trump said in a video on twitter "I love you"

The President is supposed to be protecting the people and the democracy, all the people, not just half of the people. The president is supposed to be the smartest one, not the mad uncle.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-08 17:08 by bv.

Best part of this awful situation is that it is hopefully a 'shock to the system' and maybe more people realize this isn't how it's supposed to work nor is it how they want it to be in the future.

Right wing hate groups such as Proud Boys and Oath Keepers had a large presence at the DC rally. Trumps favorite hate group Qanon was also there. The leader is the person in the photos that had no shirt. he was wearing that fur thing on his head.

The only reason these groups were in DC was to start trouble. They planned to cause damage and harm.


[globalnews.ca]

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bv

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GasLightStreet

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1962

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DandelionPowderman

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1962
Dear BV!

Why this on IORR?
I don't think this has anything to do with IORR.
Please close it!

[iorr.org]

I don't agree. There are a lot of other places for this outside of IORR.

I see people are forcing you to open this thread.

Absolutely not. A few people ask me to close it, because they don't like the facts. If you read what I posted this morning, i.e. a few hours ago, this thread was never closed, except for an hour in the morning, when I looked into false and/or offending posts. It is still open.

I think GasLight was just being sarcastic toward 1962....

I don't think it was directed at you, BV.

thanks for keeping it open, either way.

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stickyfingers101

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bv

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GasLightStreet

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1962

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DandelionPowderman

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1962
Dear BV!

Why this on IORR?
I don't think this has anything to do with IORR.
Please close it!

[iorr.org]

I don't agree. There are a lot of other places for this outside of IORR.

I see people are forcing you to open this thread.

Absolutely not. A few people ask me to close it, because they don't like the facts. If you read what I posted this morning, i.e. a few hours ago, this thread was never closed, except for an hour in the morning, when I looked into false and/or offending posts. It is still open.

I think GasLight was just being sarcastic toward 1962....

I don't think it was directed at you, BV.

thanks for keeping it open, either way.

I have got all sorts of hidden messages and also personal threats lately, so I treat everything posted literally now.

Bjornulf

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bv
Some say the DC Capitol riot was just another riot. WRONG.

1. The US President Donald Trump organized and initiated the riot
2. The house raided was not just another house, it was the very center of the US Democracy
3. After the terror attack was a fact, Trump said in a video on twitter "I love you"

The President is supposed to be protecting the people and the democracy, all the people, not just half of the people. The president is supposed to be the smartest one, not the mad uncle.

IMO, I don't think it was a "terror attack"

I am always very cautious w/ that term and never throw it around lightly.

Reason? I dunno what folks not from the US know, but here in the US, if you are labeled a "terrorist SUSPECT" under the NDAA, your rights (literally) cease to exist....you can be indefinitely detained w/ no right to a lawyer....literally.

[en.wikipedia.org]

I also don't think it was a "coup" or an "insurrection" or an "attempted takeover"....those also bring very harsh legal punishments etc. (Sedition Act).

it was a protest that turned into a riot (IMO)....

hence, I prefer the term "rioters"

....just my opinion.

BV,

Its time to take this thread down,
Especially If people are threating you, also they should be banned from this site.

Folks, lets show BV some appreciation for starting this site and keeping it going all these years.
Im sure he never intended to become a political news editor when he started this site.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-01-08 17:29 by spikenyc.

It is sad to watch, how fragile democracy is.

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bv

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stickyfingers101

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bv

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GasLightStreet

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1962

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DandelionPowderman

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1962
Dear BV!

Why this on IORR?
I don't think this has anything to do with IORR.
Please close it!

[iorr.org]

I don't agree. There are a lot of other places for this outside of IORR.

I see people are forcing you to open this thread.

Absolutely not. A few people ask me to close it, because they don't like the facts. If you read what I posted this morning, i.e. a few hours ago, this thread was never closed, except for an hour in the morning, when I looked into false and/or offending posts. It is still open.

I think GasLight was just being sarcastic toward 1962....

I don't think it was directed at you, BV.

thanks for keeping it open, either way.

I have got all sorts of hidden messages and also personal threats lately, so I treat everything posted literally now.

I'm sorry to hear that. Geez. Personal threats?

You do a damn fine job, BV. Always have.

I don't always agree w/ you, but I always respect your decisions....mostly b/c you go about it in a way that is respectful to all (which is most important, IMO)

so...thanks. I really appreciate this place.

these people are absolute scum ... they are the fookin’ dregs of humanity. they are terrorists. they’re also insurrectionists, liars, racists, misogynists, anti-semites, anti-muslim, anti-lgbtq, anti-science, anti-american and they are absolutely disgusting. they eat up fox news, and other murdoch disinformation, newsmax, breitbart, infowars, koch brothers funded media and oann. they’re either too stupid to know that they’re being lied to or they just don’t care. the brainwashing is insidious. the violent rage is based in ignorance and hate. the conspiracy theories, especially qanon, are flat-out insane. the magats with their nazi flags, confederate flags, trump flags, their qanon shorts and those goddamned red hats (the present day kkk hood)... at least they’re easy to spot. we see them. we even read the filth,and lies, they spew on this site. we see them. we know them. these people want to go back to the the good ‘ol days of slavery or at least to the good ‘ol days of kkk terror.

before the last stones show, in miami, i was sitting near some vile racist magats, who kept using the n-word. these folks were so very rude and objectionable. i’ve wondered if it might have been someone who regularly posts on this board. i regret not fetching security to have them removed from the venue. i wish i’d have done it.

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spikenyc
BV,

Its time to take this thread down,
Especially If people are threating you, also they should be banned from this site.

Folks, lets show BV some appreciation for starting this site and keeping it going all these years.
Im sure he never intended to become a political news editor when he started this site.

People have been threatening me for 25 years by letter, phone and e-mail, since I opened the forum in 1995 or so. Quite a few who are kicked out from the forum tell me things nobody want to hear. I have had a secret phone number since the 90's. I have a two digit list of names. Not a big worry, but that is one of several reasons why I don't meet up with people I don't know often. Security.

It comes with sticking your head out. Being just a fan would have been easy, but when I started IORR back in 1980 it was because I wanted to share my love and stories of The Rolling Stones with others. I think there is quite a bit of envy, also general hate. But I am a very stubborn person, so I will hang in a bit more. Yes this thread will close soon, because the subject has been debated to the extent needed. Then it is up to the general press to cover the subject.

Bjornulf

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bv
Some say the DC Capitol riot was just another riot. WRONG.

1. The US President Donald Trump organized and initiated the riot
2. The house raided was not just another house, it was the very center of the US Democracy
3. After the terror attack was a fact, Trump said in a video on twitter "I love you"

The President is supposed to be protecting the people and the democracy, all the people, not just half of the people. The president is supposed to be the smartest one, not the mad uncle.

Very well said and completely accurate.


The number of congress members, on both sides, expressing support for Impeachment and removal over his incitement,
is growing as we speak.

The only reason it may not happen is because of the relatively short amount of time left. A big factor on why it may move forward is that constitutionally if he were to be convicted by the Senate, he would be ineligible to ever run for any office again.

He doesn't even have any integrity towards himself............And throws his mob under the bus.....just a violent ad hoc mob boss who's an embarrassment to the mob.

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bv

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spikenyc
BV,

Its time to take this thread down,
Especially If people are threating you, also they should be banned from this site.

Folks, lets show BV some appreciation for starting this site and keeping it going all these years.
Im sure he never intended to become a political news editor when he started this site.

People have been threatening me for 25 years by letter, phone and e-mail, since I opened the forum in 1995 or so. Quite a few who are kicked out from the forum tell me things nobody want to hear. I have had a secret phone number since the 90's. I have a two digit list of names. Not a big worry, but that is one of several reasons why I don't meet up with people I don't know often. Security.

It comes with sticking your head out. Being just a fan would have been easy, but when I started IORR back in 1980 it was because I wanted to share my love and stories of The Rolling Stones with others. I think there is quite a bit of envy, also general hate. But I am a very stubborn person, so I will hang in a bit more. Yes this thread will close soon, because the subject has been debated to the extent needed. Then it is up to the general press to cover the subject.

Appreciate what you do. I moderate a site and get some of the same crap. Most people are great but there are always a fringe group of aholes who make it difficult. Keep up the good work.

Sure the attack on the Capitol was terror. Just ask the relatives of those who died, or all those security people, or congress members who were hiding behind seats during the attack.

One of the Trump supporters who stormed the US Capitol was carrying 11 Molotov cocktails and an assault rifle, prosecutors say (Business Insider)

A man arrested during the riots at the US Capitol was carrying 11 Molotov cocktails and an assault rifle, a federal prosecutor said Thursday.

Mike Sherwin, the acting US attorney for the District of Columbia, gave a press conference describing action taken by prosecutors against members of the pro-Trump mob which attacked the Capitol building on Wednesday.

Sherwin told reporters that 15 federal charges had been filed against people present at the riots for offences including illegally entering the Capitol, possessing a firearm and stealing congressional property.

He also alleged that a large amount of material was stolen from congressional offices during the riot, with potential implications for national security.

"Electronic items were stolen from senators' offices. Documents, materials were stolen, and we have to identify what was done, mitigate that, and it could have potential national security equities," Sherwin said.

"If there was damage, we don't know the extent of that yet," he added.

Sherwin said he couldn't provide much information on who was responsible for improvised explosive devices found elsewhere in Washington DC on Wednesday, at the Republican National Committee and Democratic National Committee headquarters.

Bjornulf

Trump passed this law over the summer. The rioters could face 10 years in jail for damaging Federal property.

[www.whitehouse.gov]

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stickyfingers101

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bv
Some say the DC Capitol riot was just another riot. WRONG.

1. The US President Donald Trump organized and initiated the riot
2. The house raided was not just another house, it was the very center of the US Democracy
3. After the terror attack was a fact, Trump said in a video on twitter "I love you"

The President is supposed to be protecting the people and the democracy, all the people, not just half of the people. The president is supposed to be the smartest one, not the mad uncle.

IMO, I don't think it was a "terror attack"

I am always very cautious w/ that term and never throw it around lightly.

Reason? I dunno what folks not from the US know, but here in the US, if you are labeled a "terrorist SUSPECT" under the NDAA, your rights (literally) cease to exist....you can be indefinitely detained w/ no right to a lawyer....literally.

[en.wikipedia.org]

I also don't think it was a "coup" or an "insurrection" or an "attempted takeover"....those also bring very harsh legal punishments etc. (Sedition Act).

it was a protest that turned into a riot (IMO)....

hence, I prefer the term "rioters"

....just my opinion.

Yes and no!

Yes, I have also thought that it was not a terrorist attack.

But:
No, I considered it to be more than a protest that turned into a riot, namely a violent violation against the democratic institutions of the USA.

Worst of all, and there read bv's post: Instigated by the sitting president of the USA, not respecting his loss by the election, the very serious violation of democracy.

What exactly were they "fighting" for? More corporate tax cuts?

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Witness

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stickyfingers101

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bv
Some say the DC Capitol riot was just another riot. WRONG.

1. The US President Donald Trump organized and initiated the riot
2. The house raided was not just another house, it was the very center of the US Democracy
3. After the terror attack was a fact, Trump said in a video on twitter "I love you"

The President is supposed to be protecting the people and the democracy, all the people, not just half of the people. The president is supposed to be the smartest one, not the mad uncle.

IMO, I don't think it was a "terror attack"

I am always very cautious w/ that term and never throw it around lightly.

Reason? I dunno what folks not from the US know, but here in the US, if you are labeled a "terrorist SUSPECT" under the NDAA, your rights (literally) cease to exist....you can be indefinitely detained w/ no right to a lawyer....literally.

[en.wikipedia.org]

I also don't think it was a "coup" or an "insurrection" or an "attempted takeover"....those also bring very harsh legal punishments etc. (Sedition Act).

it was a protest that turned into a riot (IMO)....

hence, I prefer the term "rioters"

....just my opinion.

Yes and no!

Yes, I have also thought that it was not a terrorist attack.

But:
No, I considered it to be more than a protest that turned into a riot, namely a violent violation against the democratic institutions of the USA.

Worst of all, and there read bv's post: Instigated by the sitting president of the USA, not respecting his loss by the election, the very serious violation of democracy.

If this was a mob of people with middle eastern decent yelling Allahu Akbar as they broke in or a mob of BLM supporters would you consider it a terrorist attack? If the answer to your question is no then I accept your reasoning (although I disagree) but if you say that is terrorism then you need to look in the mirror and ask whether your views are racist. Can't have it both ways.

Mr Trump is the ultimate bad loser and will be remembered for that,and nothing that is good.
Just seen on BBC news he will not attend the inauguration of President Bidon,
Mike Pence has said that he will be there and hopefully will wish President Bidon well in his term of office.

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Witness

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stickyfingers101

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bv
Some say the DC Capitol riot was just another riot. WRONG.

1. The US President Donald Trump organized and initiated the riot
2. The house raided was not just another house, it was the very center of the US Democracy
3. After the terror attack was a fact, Trump said in a video on twitter "I love you"

The President is supposed to be protecting the people and the democracy, all the people, not just half of the people. The president is supposed to be the smartest one, not the mad uncle.

IMO, I don't think it was a "terror attack"

I am always very cautious w/ that term and never throw it around lightly.

Reason? I dunno what folks not from the US know, but here in the US, if you are labeled a "terrorist SUSPECT" under the NDAA, your rights (literally) cease to exist....you can be indefinitely detained w/ no right to a lawyer....literally.

[en.wikipedia.org]

I also don't think it was a "coup" or an "insurrection" or an "attempted takeover"....those also bring very harsh legal punishments etc. (Sedition Act).

it was a protest that turned into a riot (IMO)....

hence, I prefer the term "rioters"

....just my opinion.

Yes and no!

Yes, I have also thought that it was not a terrorist attack.

But:
No, I considered it to be more than a protest that turned into a riot, namely a violent violation against the democratic institutions of the USA.

Worst of all, and there read bv's post: Instigated by the sitting president of the USA, not respecting his loss by the election, the very serious violation of democracy.

When people bring Molotov cocktails, bombs and rifles it's not to maintain law and order. No, they did that to terrorise, aka spread fear. Hence it's a terror attack, imo.

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treaclefingers
Best part of this awful situation is that it is hopefully a 'shock to the system' and maybe more people realize this isn't how it's supposed to work nor is it how they want it to be in the future.

My goodness, I hope so.

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wonderboy
I did laugh at the picture of the guy in Pelosi's office with his feet on the desk.
Nice to see royalty punched in the nose once in a while.

Understand the sentiment, but this was not that.
This was terrorism, and they were terrorized.

I wouldn't care if it was Mitch McConnell's office or any representative.,
The pic is disgusting, and those that participated in the ransacking of the offices will be met with severe penalties. And the thug has been id'd as he's been boasting about it, like a lot of the domestic terrorists have.

A note he left for the Speaker


A "reporter" was amongst and "with" the mob and posted this:

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Witness

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DandelionPowderman

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Witness

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stickyfingers101

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bv
Some say the DC Capitol riot was just another riot. WRONG.

1. The US President Donald Trump organized and initiated the riot
2. The house raided was not just another house, it was the very center of the US Democracy
3. After the terror attack was a fact, Trump said in a video on twitter "I love you"

The President is supposed to be protecting the people and the democracy, all the people, not just half of the people. The president is supposed to be the smartest one, not the mad uncle.

IMO, I don't think it was a "terror attack"

I am always very cautious w/ that term and never throw it around lightly.

Reason? I dunno what folks not from the US know, but here in the US, if you are labeled a "terrorist SUSPECT" under the NDAA, your rights (literally) cease to exist....you can be indefinitely detained w/ no right to a lawyer....literally.

[en.wikipedia.org]

I also don't think it was a "coup" or an "insurrection" or an "attempted takeover"....those also bring very harsh legal punishments etc. (Sedition Act).

it was a protest that turned into a riot (IMO)....

hence, I prefer the term "rioters"

....just my opinion.

Yes and no!

Yes, I have also thought that it was not a terrorist attack.

But:
No, I considered it to be more than a protest that turned into a riot, namely a violent violation against the democratic institutions of the USA.

Worst of all, and there read bv's post: Instigated by the sitting president of the USA, not respecting his loss by the election, the very serious violation of democracy.

When people bring Molotov cocktails, bombs and rifles it's not to maintain law and order. No, they did that to terrorise, aka spread fear. Hence it's a terror attack, imo.

They sought to violate the democratic institutions in a violent way.

Someone driving a car or truck against a crowd of people, would be a case of terrorism to me.

Don't forget the meaning of the word.

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bv


I have got all sorts of hidden messages and also personal threats lately, so I treat everything posted literally now.

That is just so sad and uncalled for. I don't agree with everything you say, but it's your website so I try and respect your rules and appreciate the time you take keeping this up and running. Keep up the good work!

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Rocknroll1969
Trump passed this law over the summer. The rioters could face 10 years in jail for damaging Federal property.

[www.whitehouse.gov]

Good! It should be applied equally across the board with no exceptions.