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Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: January 23, 2021 22:33

i would love to see phily released as a double album with stevie wonders opening set it was great to hear ike & tina and bb king on the deluxe ya-ya thing

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: January 23, 2021 23:19

Many of those duets appeared on Honk.

and that was more than enough .... time ta move on ...



ROCKMAN

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: January 23, 2021 23:40

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Many of those duets appeared on Honk. I doubt they'll do that again.

True - which makes me more convinced that this was a projected live album idea that just didnt quite come to fruition, but they were able to find an alternative release where they were able to put out some of the tracks.

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: January 24, 2021 00:03

I think there may be things in the vault that we might find interesting but Mick would find boring to release, like Sophia Loren he said was much longer but cut down to Pass the Wine on the Exile deluxe.He wouldn’t release a 20 minute Sophia Loren , but I’d like to hear itThere are probably jams he is not interested in releasing.There was a Beatles bootleg circulating for years which contained acoustic demos of White Album songs called the Asher tapes which eventually I think was officially released on the 50 th anniversary release of the White Album.I’m sure there must be plenty of demos in the archives they could release like they did with 100years ago

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: January 24, 2021 03:43

Quote
Taylor1
I think there may be things in the vault that we might find interesting but Mick would find boring to release, like Sophia Loren he said was much longer but cut down to Pass the Wine on the Exile deluxe.He wouldn’t release a 20 minute Sophia Loren , but I’d like to hear itThere are probably jams he is not interested in releasing.There was a Beatles bootleg circulating for years which contained acoustic demos of White Album songs called the Asher tapes which eventually I think was officially released on the 50 th anniversary release of the White Album.I’m sure there must be plenty of demos in the archives they could release like they did with 100years ago

Most of the good Beatles leftovers came out on the Anthology series, the different tempo of I'm Looking Through You, and the totally different Tomorrow Never Knows. I didn't find much treasure in the Deluxe White Album or Abbey Road. (Sgt. Pepper had some interesting alternates.)

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: January 24, 2021 08:21

>Sgt. Pepper had some interesting alternates.

I actually liked the "alternate" Sgt Pepper better than the official one. Sounded way more like an actual band playing than a grand production. Helped cut down on the vaudeville feeling.

jb

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: henrik87 ()
Date: January 26, 2021 21:07

Anything lined up for this year? Has there been a leak on FSK site or the UK site yet?

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: January 27, 2021 04:26

Quote
Gazza
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Many of those duets appeared on Honk. I doubt they'll do that again.

True - which makes me more convinced that this was a projected live album idea that just didnt quite come to fruition, but they were able to find an alternative release where they were able to put out some of the tracks.

They kind of work - as silly bonus tracks. I've only listened to them a couple of times and that was plenty. The only live track I go back to is Dancing With Mr D. LSTNT is a bit of a snooze - they did it much better on the BRIDGES tours. Shine A Light was better during the VOODOO tours. Under My Thumb and She's A Rainbow... nah.

A full album release of live duets? The Frank Sinatra DUETS albums were... interesting. It was Frank, after all. And it should never be done again - with anyone else by anyone else. Fortunately the Stones live duets were kept at a minimum because they're awful.

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: January 27, 2021 05:17

This whole duets thing was all the rage back a few years ago. Just like Stripped, it was flavor of the day to go all acoustic (and then cheat at that to boot).

jb

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: January 27, 2021 06:10

Quote
jbwelda
This whole duets thing was all the rage back a few years ago. Just like Stripped, it was flavor of the day to go all acoustic (and then cheat at that to boot).

jb

I don't recall them saying it was an acoustic album, just a different take on a live album, which it quite isn't only because of the studio tracks - live, of course, but not. Following a trend? Sure seemed like it. Perhaps it was just convenient happenstance. They'd done acoustic performances live before, as well as an acoustic and an electric, so it wasn't new for them.

Mick:
To me it was never a kind of life-shattering event, this record. We tried to get a twist on a live record 'cause I didn't want to go back and repeat the previous live record. I thought we just had to give something different. We eventually got into it and developed a more intimate record. And we got a few unusual tracks going on, which is always good for a live record - not original songs but reworked.

[timeisonourside.com]

Bruce Springsteen did a show - with amps, called it MTV PLUGGED.

Phil Collins did one but due to "his diminishing popularity in the U.S. it only aired in Europe."

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: January 27, 2021 06:17

Thats right it was that whole MTV unplugged rage and yes the Stones never totally embraced it but it was what I think they were hinting at. I liked that Stripped set quite a bit and only recently got the expanded version. I think it has stood up remarkably well over the years. Far better than some other of their material.

jb

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: Father Ted ()
Date: January 27, 2021 15:48

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
Gazza
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Many of those duets appeared on Honk. I doubt they'll do that again.

True - which makes me more convinced that this was a projected live album idea that just didnt quite come to fruition, but they were able to find an alternative release where they were able to put out some of the tracks.

They kind of work - as silly bonus tracks. I've only listened to them a couple of times and that was plenty. The only live track I go back to is Dancing With Mr D. LSTNT is a bit of a snooze - they did it much better on the BRIDGES tours. Shine A Light was better during the VOODOO tours. Under My Thumb and She's A Rainbow... nah.

A full album release of live duets? The Frank Sinatra DUETS albums were... interesting. It was Frank, after all. And it should never be done again - with anyone else by anyone else. Fortunately the Stones live duets were kept at a minimum because they're awful.

Yeah I agree. Duet albums are for crooners.

"An ingenious and entertaining assemblage of nonsense" - James A. Van Allen

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: January 27, 2021 16:26


Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: yearsinthemaking ()
Date: January 28, 2021 22:51

Is there anyone who has the ear of someone important in the Stones organization? It's been pointed out many times in this site that people are getting older and there won't be a market for the Stones artifacts that are sitting there in the vaults gathering dust and rotting away. We know there has to be countless shows from the "golden era" that are ripe for the pickings. It's cheap to release these things digitally. We know for certain that 4 Texas shows were recording in '72 plus the Philly shows and likely all of the NYC shows. Release them!!!! The London '73 shows were almost certainly recorded as well as Newcastle and others. Release them!!!! Who knows about the Pacific tour? The '75 shows!!! The LA shows (and they put out the shittiest one!!! Captain Acid's July 9th show was way better), the Cow Palace, Toronto and that Cleveland show that "You Got to Move" came from. Paris '76!!!! C'mon guys, the list goes on and on. Get off of your @#$%& asses and release some of the classic live performances. There has to be a way to get through to them. Are we all just old fart dumbasses who don't know how to use modern social media? Is that why they don't listen to us on old-fashioned chat sites? Someone help, explain!!!

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: timmyj3 ()
Date: January 28, 2021 23:28

I just do not believe they have "lots" of super duper quality concerts in the vault. I pray I am completely wrong. Unless something pops up from an unexpected source I do not believe we will see any shows from 1980 or before with the exception of 1976 Paris and 1972 Philadelphia.

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: yearsinthemaking ()
Date: January 28, 2021 23:38

But why would Springsteen and Neil Young and others have them and not the Stones? We know they recorded a bunch of shows from '75-'76 for Love You Live and just sampled a few of them. They most definitely recorded those others I listed above as well and almost certainly all on 16 track recordings. They are all analog and are degrading in the vaults

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: January 28, 2021 23:59

Here's something that is being declared to be "from the vault" [twitter.com]

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: January 29, 2021 00:04

Quote
Nikkei
Here's something that is being declared to be "from the vault" [twitter.com]
'92 while on a RS tour in Spain
??????
What tour was in 1992?

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: January 29, 2021 00:04

It may not be Keith but it still is a Keith account, so

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: Father Ted ()
Date: January 29, 2021 11:17

Quote
yearsinthemaking
Is there anyone who has the ear of someone important in the Stones organization? It's been pointed out many times in this site that people are getting older and there won't be a market for the Stones artifacts that are sitting there in the vaults gathering dust and rotting away. We know there has to be countless shows from the "golden era" that are ripe for the pickings. It's cheap to release these things digitally. We know for certain that 4 Texas shows were recording in '72 plus the Philly shows and likely all of the NYC shows. Release them!!!! The London '73 shows were almost certainly recorded as well as Newcastle and others. Release them!!!! Who knows about the Pacific tour? The '75 shows!!! The LA shows (and they put out the shittiest one!!! Captain Acid's July 9th show was way better), the Cow Palace, Toronto and that Cleveland show that "You Got to Move" came from. Paris '76!!!! C'mon guys, the list goes on and on. Get off of your @#$%& asses and release some of the classic live performances. There has to be a way to get through to them. Are we all just old fart dumbasses who don't know how to use modern social media? Is that why they don't listen to us on old-fashioned chat sites? Someone help, explain!!!

I absolutely agree. Open the vaults!!

"An ingenious and entertaining assemblage of nonsense" - James A. Van Allen

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: saltoftheearth ()
Date: January 29, 2021 12:03

Quote
timmyj3
I just do not believe they have "lots" of super duper quality concerts in the vault. I pray I am completely wrong. Unless something pops up from an unexpected source I do not believe we will see any shows from 1980 or before with the exception of 1976 Paris and 1972 Philadelphia.

Let's summon up the recordings that are knwon or highly probable to have been recorded by the Rolling Stones mobile unit:

As for the 1973 Tour of Europe, it is certain that at least a London show has been recorded because some songs appear on the famous bootlegs. The Newcastle concert was also recorded because there are some tracks in Mono on KBFH. But it can only have been recorded in stereo, and there is nor reason why they should not have recorded the entire concert.

Someone stated that the Essen concerts were also recorded which is highly probable because of the Billy Preston recordings which were released officially.

Rumour has it that one or two concerts more were recorded in Great Britain, and this is beyond speculation. If these tapes have not been thrown away or wiped they still exist. I once asked Bill Wyman in an Email about it but despite it is said that he'd answer every fan mail I got no answer. What a shame! (No offence here, Bill).

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: Father Ted ()
Date: January 29, 2021 13:06

Quote
timmyj3
I just do not believe they have "lots" of super duper quality concerts in the vault. I pray I am completely wrong. Unless something pops up from an unexpected source I do not believe we will see any shows from 1980 or before with the exception of 1976 Paris and 1972 Philadelphia.

We just don't know for certain what does exist.

Informed sources like VideoJames suggest that there's far more pro-shot video. He even mentioned a film for the '72 Boston show I believe?

Assuming that the available soundboard bootlegs do not represent the totality of all the recordings in the vault, I would work on the basis that there are recordings being held back that we're not aware of.

I'd release them in tour anthology packages along with any remaining live video and contemporaneous TV and radio interviews.

"An ingenious and entertaining assemblage of nonsense" - James A. Van Allen

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: wopperla ()
Date: January 29, 2021 21:26

It goes without saying that the complete Altamont Concert from the Multi-Track would be the Holy Grail. IMHO This concert contains the best live version ever recorded of "Gimme Shelter". Just sayin.

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: TumblinDice76 ()
Date: January 29, 2021 21:58

Memo to Stones-release more, I buy them all!

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: January 29, 2021 22:37

.... I fink they're savin' it all
for Keef and those last survivin' cockroaches .....



ROCKMAN

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: January 29, 2021 22:43

The holy grail is a 1972 show with great quality,preferably the best New Yorkshows.

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: yearsinthemaking ()
Date: January 29, 2021 22:55

We know there are extensive recordings of the '78 and '81 tours. My belief is that they have numerous earlier shows recorded as well. The Stones were ahead of the curve when it came to audio and light effects at shows. They also have long been the wealthiest touring band out there. I just can't believe that the number of shows they have available wouldn't just blow our minds. Just like in Paris '76 and MSG '69 I think when they had a long stay at a high profile venue they recorded all of the shows as well as many others concerts. They are there in the vault just wasting away and pissing all of us off. Release them!!!!!

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: georgelicks ()
Date: January 30, 2021 02:09

Quote
yearsinthemaking
We know there are extensive recordings of the '78 and '81 tours. My belief is that they have numerous earlier shows recorded as well. The Stones were ahead of the curve when it came to audio and light effects at shows. They also have long been the wealthiest touring band out there. I just can't believe that the number of shows they have available wouldn't just blow our minds. Just like in Paris '76 and MSG '69 I think when they had a long stay at a high profile venue they recorded all of the shows as well as many others concerts. They are there in the vault just wasting away and pissing all of us off. Release them!!!!!

Sadly the time to milk the cow has passed, all vault releases now are just for the ageing die hard fan base, hardly anyone outside could care less about a show from 50 years ago, the physical sales now are ridiculous, the right time was 15-20-25 years ago when the market was still there.

Still, we can expect 2 of this vault releases each year just to put something on the dead market, but the motivation to make money from it is hardly there when only 5,000 people show up to buy the stuff, the GHS re-issue has sold under 30k in the US and 25k in the UK, even with people buying 5 copies each.

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: January 30, 2021 02:17

Tour rehearsals, studio jams, basic tracks, chit chat in the studio (Wot now?) -- stuff only we would be interested in.

Re: Is the Vault Empty?
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: January 30, 2021 02:18

You know, "we" really do not know anything. Even if shows were recorded there is no guarantee they came out decently (I know that for a fact) nor that they still exist even if they at one time did. And no one official is probably going to ask some bootlegger for his masters to release (although, that exact thing has in fact happened with some artists and maybe even the Stones themselves). But live recording is a very hit and miss proposition especially when it involves one night stands and multi track recordings. Equipment fails with regularity, and no one would ever think that maybe some of the recording techs have succumbed to the allure of the Stones and fell asleep at the switch so to speak, resulting in sub standard end product.

As for Altamont, my understanding is the Maysles stuff is incomplete, possibly missing or stolen. Bear (aka Owsley Stanley) was running the board at Altamont and he claimed to have complete board recordings of the entire day but swore he would never release them. So I think that is a done deal but again stranger things have happened so keep your fingers crossed. I doubt the Stones at this point would want to put out such a notorious bummer (although I enjoyed my day there for the most part).

> But it can only have been recorded in stereo, and there is nor reason why
>they should not have recorded the entire concert.

With all due respect it does not sound like you have any clue what you are talking about. For one thing, live shows are not typically professionally recorded in stereo, they are multi tracked on 8 or greater tracks to be mixed later in the studio. Recording stereo right at the source would involve real time mixing for the stereo mix and no one outside of amateur recordists do that. Contrary to popular thought, just grabbing the "front of house" stereo mix off the mixing board rarely suffices for a professional recording.

For another, your assertion there is no reason not to have recorded an entire concert is entirely incorrect. There are a lot of reasons not to record an entire concert even when one is recording a song or two for a specific reason. One is expense and we all know how famous a certain main character is for being pretty tight with the expense accounts. That expense not only includes the technicians, multiple recorders running, but also the very medium of recording, the tape itself. Is and always has been a major expense especially the multi track large format high speed variety. There are a lot of other expenses as well, just for openers the mixing of the multi tracks down to a stereo mix, and of course the ever present screwups that only become noticable at this point in the game and can totally ruin an otherwise acceptable recording. Equipment breaks down during recording sessions and with a live recording there are no retakes, so often if that happens they just shut down the recording because there are going to be difficulties sorting the tech problems that they cannot deal with on the spot especially in time to get back to the recording process.

The bottom line is the Stones seem to have standards, like them or not, and they stick to them. Very little of what they themselves (not ABKCO that is) have released has been substandard, in fact most of it has been overproduced if you ask me. That tells me that even if some tapes exist from the earlier days (say 1980 on back) they are probably not to a standard that they want to release. Maybe someday they will throw caution to the wind and just offer everything up for grabs, but I have seen no indication that will be happening anytime soon.

Grim, maybe, but reality.

jb

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