Take a look at the reports from Calgary and Seattle. Both the press and the fans like it - a lot. Too bad I missed the Seattle show. I just see it was one of the best of the tour. So enjoy the shows and be happy!

Bjornulf

not everywhere:

Do the Rolling Stones still rock ‘n’ roll?

November 01, 2005

By Brian Smith


A look into the rise and fall of a band that still has fans

How far they have fallen. How desperate they have become. how sad it all is. The Rolling Stones are playing in Portland tonight, at the Rose Garden. I’m stating this as a fact, not promotion. For the Stones, who now are 30-plus years removed from their best and most relevant work, have devolved into nothing more than a walking advertisement, a weak caricature of their former selves. And the only questions that arise when examining their current, sorry state is: How did it come to this? How did it get this bad?



How did the Rolling Stones, who, once upon a time, were without question the finest, dirtiest and most dangerous rock band in the world, turn into the rock world’s biggest charade? How do the Stones go from making Sticky Fingers and Exile On Main St. to turning tricks for more corporations than one can count on a pair of hands? Off the top of my head: Best Buy, Starbucks, Ameriquest, Mercedes-Benz, Sirius Radio, Clear Channel, American Express, Yahoo, the NFL, ABC.



In fact, just last week, while paging through the New York Times, I encountered a full-page ad with Mick, Keef, Charlie and Ronnie all proudly smiling and standing around a brand new Mercedes-Benz R-Class sedan. The headline of the promotion read: “The Rolling Stones ‘A Bigger Bang’ World Tour is ready to roll, and so is the all-new Mercedes-Benz R-Class.” This is rock ‘n’ roll? And this has what to do with music, with art? Nothing. Absolutely nothing.



What makes it even worse is that the Stones are now championed, by critics and intense capitalists alike, as being “opportunists.” “They’re just taking advantage of their talent,” they say. “They’re just playing the game.”



No, they’re not. They’re simply cashing in.



The top-dollar ticket price for the Stones on this tour is $350 (and that’s before Ticketmaster’s service charges come into play). $350. For what? For tired, bottled-up nostalgia? And who can afford a $350 ticket? Lawyers, doctors? Moreover, do you know what you can do with $350? A lot of things. The first thing that comes to my mind is paying rent. Yet, perhaps the most disturbing facet of the Stones in the year 2005 has more to do with the culture that buys their concert tickets and their merchandise than it does with the Stones themselves. Because it’s not like no one is going to these shows. In fact, the majority of the dates on the tour have already sold out. And once inside the shows, fans are individually throwing down hundreds of dollars on jackets and shirts and other assorted memorabilia, all with the Stones patented tongue and lip logo emblazoned upon them.



So what does this say about “us”? What does it say about the 20,000 — give or take a few — people in each city that the Stones are playing, across the globe, who are willing to cough up hundreds of dollars just to see Mick and the boys “start it up” one more time? Is nostalgia that addicting? Is the past that hard, that impossible to leave behind?



Apparently, it is. Because the Stones have been doing this for years. They have been on their “last tour ever” since the ‘90s. And every time they hit the road, they both fill stadiums and end up as the top-grossing touring act of the year. In pulling the wool over the eyes of their adoring admirers, the Stones are simply taking it to the bank. And they are now so far removed from what once made them great, what once made them interesting and relevant, that now, it’s just accepted as fact. Mick and Keef get paid, like mad, and their fans get to hear “Start Me Up” and “Satisfaction.” That’s the deal. It’s business. It’s money. Never mind that they play nearly the same set list every night. Never mind that they haven’t had a real bass player since Bill Wyman left a decade ago. Never mind that they haven’t put out a good record in over 30 years. The Stones are selling something, for a very high price, and a whole lot of people are still buying that something, with pride. Nostalgia: it’s a bitch.

[www.dailyvanguard.com]





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-11-02 00:28 by Rik.

who the hell is brian smith???

Well, to be fair, Rik - the article you posted is NOT a review about a Stones show...



Belgrade-Bucharest-Budapest-Brno

Indeed it isn't, it's someone who posts his opinions about this tour, and some find it a crime to post it, I don't. WE might like it, or not, but it isn't that sick to read such a story about the stones, it won't hurt you. But Lorenz, I am sure you got the point I'd like to make.

Rik

J.J.Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> who the hell is brian smith???
another clown who hasn't seen a show yet LOL

Thanks very good article.

brian smith, isn't he the y2k killer???

Yeah, I get the point - I think we all agree that it is not the perfect Stones tour.
There are two things here that really get on my nerves: blind admiration and notorious nagging...and actually, I think it doesn't help the discussion on this board that all we hear from Bjornulf is positive.

First of all, he's got some facts wrong. The top ticket price is $450, not $350. OK, not a big deal.

Secondly, and I was just thinking about this the other day--I've never felt "nostalgic" at a Stones show. They come and rock the house out. A Paul McCartney show is nostalgic, with tributes to dead ex-bandmates, tearful moments, and historical pictures constantly flashing up on the screen.

You'll never see this kind of stuff at a Stones concert. The first time they did this, that I know of, is for a brief while during "She's So Cold" when they flash some video clips up on the screen. But we never see any sentimentality from them. The Stones are just too "rude" to be nostalgic.

Anyway, I just hate it when they say a Stones show is "nostalgic"--I've never had that feeling at one of their shows.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-11-02 00:59 by mickboy33.

mickboy33 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First of all, he's got some facts wrong. The top
> ticket price is $450, not $350.

The top price is $350, $400 or $450. Depending on where you go.

Yeah I have to definetely dissagree with bv on this one, I already posted this:

I had great VIP seats in Seattle and the first half of the show was great. Great to see YGMR out. Even TD was somewhat tolerable. Night time was great with Lisa Fisher (Keith taking a break sitting by the drums). Then The Worst and Infamy. It took the air off the show and people started to sit down. Then a horrible version of Miss You, it has to go. Followed by sparkling RJ and GOOMC. Those two songs seem to energies Keith and he was pounding away on Honky. Then it kind of died. Keith only played sporadically. It was a shame. Now when I have seen them I can only agree that you know as a fan from the set list how the show is going to be. OK MicK was 100% throughout, but Keith and Ronnie hardly played at all on some songs. The choice of Bitch was not very good since they played it in 97 in Seattle, but it was a good version. Out of Control was much bleaker than it used to be.

I was definetely not shocked cause I did not have to much expectations, but I know they can do so much better. The ending greatest hits was a big yawn.

J.J.Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> who the hell is brian smith???


He's a wanna-be journalist. This article is crap. Notice that he lays down a lot of premises, but fails to back it up. For example, PRECISELY what is it that makes him state "how far they've fallen" and "how desparate they've become." All because of corporate endorsements? What the hell does that have to do with delivering a solid rock n roll concert?

The writer is stating the obvious, nothing new. I think we all know that the Stones are, and have been, "cashing in" on their success for many years. And it is we, the fans, who are coughing up the large sums of money for the tickets, knowing full well what we are getting in return. No, we're not all "doctors and lawyers", but who is he to question whether or not we can afford it? For some fans, it is nostalgia - so what? The Stones are living legends and are still packin' them in and playing their own rock 'n roll like no other group of 60-somethings will ever do. How did they go from making Sticky Fingers, Exile, etc. to getting corporate sponsorship? Well, they are not in their 20's anymore, they will never again have the creative juices they had back then. So, tell us something we don't already know. And the "last tour" crap: the Stones have never said "this is our last tour", but everyone in the media speculates with each successive tour. The writer should check his "sources" before he presumes to write as an authority.

mickboy wrote:

>You'll never see this kind of stuff at a Stones concert. The first time they did this, that I know of, is for a brief while during "She's So Cold" when they flash some video clips up on the screen. But we never see any sentimentality from them. The Stones are just too "rude" to be nostalgic



actually, i recall in 90 during time is on my side they showed a bunch of old footage of brian.

Several mistakes in the article, as pointed out. One more is that The Stones have presented their tours as the last one since the 90s. Never ever have they said that. On the contrary, they always say they're tired of the question: Is this your last tour?

I also agree with mickboy33, I never feel nostalgic at a Stones show. They always rock the house, and always give value for money. Of course I'd love to pay 30$ for a show instead of 450, but that's not an option. McCartney, U2, Elton and all the rest are expencive too. And don't forget, if they could have earned money on their tours in the 60s and 70s, believe me, they would have. Everybody wants to make money, and The Stones are no different than the rest of us. I think some of the people who always complain about how much cash they are making are just jealous and envious.

Enjoy the shows, or just don't go. It's a free world.

PS. As far as Bjørnulf is concerned I like his attitude. He is in this for the music, his love for the Stones music. Not for the drugs, not for the scandals, not for possible hair implants, not for harassing Ronnie or Chuck, not for bad set lists, not for Keiths finger tips, or anything else. Just the love of music. I think more of us should adress The Stones the same way.

not one word about the tour or album, just an opinion on ticket prices, He feels the stones are not worth it and questions how others can, WOW! could it be that the reason they still draw might have to do with people liking the band?!
Why does he not explain why they aren't good anymore, not a word about that. This article is pure wank, no substance, and no not because it is crtical of the stones but it tells the readers nothing, if he went to a show and said the Stones sucked and they are not worth 450 bucks then cool, I might not agree but it is a valid observation, he states they have not put out a decent record in over thirty years, Ok examples please? I hate these self important pundits who just think becaue they charge alot for tickets or do sponsorships that makes the music bad, both things have nothing to do with each other, the only reason they did not have tour sponsorship in 69 or 72 was just that it did not really exist then. why can't they just go to a concert an then start writing good or bad?

At least the Stones still have more original ideas than that hack.

Brian Smith is a member of the "I hate the Stones" club. He is seing all the people who enjoy the shows and he envy them. And because he is paid to write he is writing a story - not based on their music or a review at all - about hating ticket prices and all of that.

I am not talking about what you think about the Stones as a commericial band in a commercial world. You may have your own opinions on that and I am not really interested. I am talking about people who actually saw the show and write about how they experienced it. as I have said before.

Brian Smith is probably not a Stones fan at all. He is probably a Portland reporter or something who makes his money from writing stories.

I can write about how much I dislike Garth Brooks. Even my dog dislike Garth Brooks. Because I told him. But is that interesting? Of course not. And it would be an offense if I wrote so on a Garth Brooks forum. Is that so hard to understand?

Why is it important for some of you to tell us you are frustrated and don't like shows you don't even see? Do you expect the Stones to stop touring, now that you don't like their bootlegs or ticket prices or commercials? Join the Grumpy Old Men club or whatever, but please don't bother people who still enjoy the shows with all your frustrations.

Bjornulf

I am shattered so I am tattered and I can't wait to see MORE

The author doesn't say that he actually went to a show. Did he ?

Doin' heroin with the president

bv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brian Smith is a member of the "I hate the Stones"
> club. He is seing all the people who enjoy the
> shows and he envy them.

Eh, no, I dont think so?


I am talking about
> people who actually saw the show and write about
> how they experienced it. as I have said before.

Like a journalist who gives them 2/5 in Expressen?

> Brian Smith is probably not a Stones fan at all.
> He is probably a Portland reporter or something
> who makes his money from writing stories.

Yeah, or he's a fan who's dissapointed. Who knows.


> I can write about how much I dislike Garth Brooks.
> Even my dog dislike Garth Brooks. Because I told
> him. But is that interesting?


If you told your dog to hate Garth Brooks I find that very interesting.

Do you expect the Stones to stop touring, now
> that you don't like their bootlegs or ticket
> prices or commercials? Join the Grumpy Old Men
> club or whatever, but please don't bother people
> who still enjoy the shows with all your
> frustrations.
>
> Bjornulf


OK, but isnt this a forum? BV, dont surround yourself with Yesmen, look what it did to the Stones!

And yes, I'd prefer them to stop and then return with a new form but that wont happen cause it would kill them. They have to tour to stay alive. So no, Id love to see them tour but I feel they should record more songs and loosen up a bit.

>> Why is it important for some of you to tell us you are frustrated and don't like shows you don't even see? Do you expect the Stones to stop touring, now that you don't like their bootlegs or ticket prices or commercials? Join the Grumpy Old Men club or whatever, but please don't bother people who still enjoy the shows with all your frustrations. <<

oh say it say it say it, Bjornulf!
the joy wants to spread. that's what it's for.
all i get from the chronic whining/nagging is the very strong impression that some people need more roughage in their diets.


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith

Journalists have never impressed me when it comes to reporting on the Stones. They try to do a honest job but often with the Stones they end up having a bad day. Why? Because they (the Stones) are too big for them and they crawl all over either to kiss their asses or to slaughter them. I will give you some great examples:

1. In 1998 during the European Tour opening in Nuremberg Mick Jagger lost his voice completely. They had to cancel two shows after that one and everybody with ears could hear that Mick could barely sing, from the B-stage and on. Still the famous Expressen journalist (same paper as reference above...) said that Mick Jagger had a fantastic great voice. He was probably in the Munich Kempinski bar all night, where many of the Nordic journalists got drunk during the tour opening (I was there, they were quite wasted, but at least I found my way to the show).


2. At the Van Courland Park LICKS tour press conference the press was all set up in a large open tent in the park. The Stones arrived in the blimp. The press - writing and pictures - all went mad and rushed with their small little cameras to take pictures of the Stones as they walked across the park path to the tent. What happened to the journalists? Suddenly theye were teenager fans and not serious writers having a certain distance to what they worked with. In fact we are all fans...

3. After a press session a lot of journalists ask for aoutographs. Probably for their daughter or brother...

I don't mind getting all sorts or real reviews from people who like or dislike a show. So I am not into this Yes-people thing. But I don't see the point in writing about the Stones if you don't like them anymore. They will not change. You may change. Of course not. So just accept it you don't like them anymore. That journalist with that Portland story did not write about the show. He wrote about politics. We have had 100 posts about "i hate ticket prices" and "i hate it when they do commercials" here so it is really not adding any new info.

And try to be honest. Bring out your antennas. Show some emotions. This is not a boxing ring. You are not supposed to knock out other people with your opinios. This is a place for people who like the Stones. You may make critics and you may write your opinions but when you start campaigns making one post every day or every week about this being the worts tour then it is time to move on in life, and not bother fans who still enjoy the shows. Or simply wait until you can enjoy it - eventually - hopefully. The Stones will not change. That is for sure.


Bjornulf

>
> And try to be honest. Bring out your antennas.
> Show some emotions. This is not a boxing ring. You
> are not supposed to knock out other people with
> your opinios. This is a place for people who like
> the Stones.


OK, good!

Good on you bv for staing the obvious, this is a 'fan' forum, not a 'critic's' school.

I ain't stupid, I'm just guitarded.

Once again, if you don't want to go to the shows......don't go. This tour is great and those who don't see it are missing out. Yeah, who is Mr. Smith?

I look forward to seeing all our London friends during the U.K. portion of the tour.

the "court jesters" are trying to asassinate the king

Way too many grumpy old men becoming more bitter by the day. Sad, sad, sad!

Time waits for no one, and that includes the whiners. A wise man once said you can't always get what you want, but sometimes you'll get what you need.

Try enjoying what life has to offer rather than moaning about what you can't have.

you can moan about the moaners all you want...that won't stop 'em....and i still reserve the right to bitch and moan