Tell Me :
Talk
Yes, from today's viewpoint it looks ridiculous to tour solo with a large part of your setlist made up by songs of your band.
But this does not take into account the climate of the times. At least in Europe during 1982, Stones shows were not reviewed all too favourably by the media and even large portions of their fans. I've read reviews that claimed that the band sounded like a pupil's band, ramshackle, some good moments, but uninspired and exhausted all the way or all in all, unprofessional, like a garage band, like a parody of themselves etc. The freshness that came with the 1978 tour suddenly seemed to turn against them. Mainstream stadium rock was taking over. "Dirty Work" was a lowpoint in their recording career.
I think it was exactly this mindframe that Jagger decided to "professionalize" the live act if the Stones would want to have a future at all.
His solo shows and the arrangements of Stones songs were imo a signal to Keith like: "We will do it like this way in future or we won't do anything at all and I will carry on like this!"
Was Jagger right or wrong? I mean, as much as I like the roughness of their 1981/82 tours, can one really imagine stuff like Ruby Tuesday, Paint It Black, 2000 Light Years, Sympathy For The Devil, Midnight Rambler or the like being played with that setup?
Gotta agree with Keith here, and can't blame Mick for not playing more of his solo material because maybe he realized it was weak for the most part, and a majority in attendance wanted Stones songs.
Unfortunately for Mick, the Stones songs sounded like glorified/sterilized cover band material which is essentially what it was. All great musicians no doubt, but they sucked the heart, soul, and life out of it all.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Ummmmm...what? You just made my point. You're right, he can't turn himself into Keith Richards. Exactly right. If you're a wannabe the blames belongs with the person wanting to be. Who do you blame for that? He could be Mick's guitar player and do his own thing, but he seems to me to be trying to be Keith, and failing. It's my opinion anyway. Maybe some people find him to be an incredibly dynamic, unique musician. I don't. And yeah, of course he's doing what he's paid for, I just find him to be average and derivative.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-14 02:08 by floodonthepage.
That's not a point. That is an assumption from your side. You assume he wants to be Keith Richards. You claim he's a Keith Richards wannabe. I don't think anything of that is true.
Seriously? It is a point. You don't think it's true. That's an opinion. My post is also an opinion. The point being that he can't turn himself into Keith. That's a point we seem to agree on. The rest of this is unraveling a bit. I'm not a Rip fan, I'll leave it at that. Gold Rings On Ya.
Maybe. That seems quite plausible to me.
But everybody's tryin so very hard ta be just like Keith .......
ROCKMAN
That last bit you mentioned, I've often wondered that! What would SFTD've sounded like! Or Midnight Rambler? Probably much worse than the 1975-76 versions?
I'm not convinced of that. Angie, of all songs (Bill KILLS it!), was actually pretty damn good, and its delicateness that is similar to how Ruby Tuesday, Paint If Black and the extreme opposite with SFTD and Midnight Rambler is, they might've been invigoratingly (and considerably differently) good. If there's any indication of that I think you can find it with Honky Tonk Women and Tumbling Dice (Jumpin' Jack Flash is horrible, just as bad as it was in 1972 and ever since).
I certainly understand the point of view of Mick doing what he did in 1988 and making that the frame for the future of the Stones live, at least, as it turned out to be, with STEEL WHEELS/URBAN JUNGLE.
Fortunately that relaxed quite a bit for VOODOO and BRIDGES as they got back to sounding more like a band than a glossy product.
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
Testify
()
Date: November 12, 2020 22:21
I love this special about Mick Jagger's Australian tour.
I'm not a huge fan of this tour, but this footage is really good and Mick in great shape.
[www.youtube.com]
I'm not a huge fan of this tour, but this footage is really good and Mick in great shape.
[www.youtube.com]
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
ryanpow
()
Date: November 12, 2020 22:41
I've always dismissed this tour as him being all coked out, but when you see a whole show put together like this, you do see his professionalism come through. And like others have pointed out, this was a prototype for the SW Tour.
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
john lomax
()
Date: November 12, 2020 23:07
Yeah it was great. I saw him in Sydney - I was 17 years old and was right down the front. At the time it looked doubtful that the Stones would ever play together again so this was the next best thing.
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
mandu
()
Date: November 12, 2020 23:58
i saw him in Auckland NZ,very good show
Feel The Fear
And Do It Anyway
Feel The Fear
And Do It Anyway
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
SKILLS
()
Date: November 13, 2020 00:12
Agreed Auckland was a full on show as the boot testifies
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
winos
()
Date: November 13, 2020 00:32
I saw Jagger 3 times on that tour twice in Melb and in Sydney, ha had a fantastic band with Doug Wimbish from Living Colour, Joe Satriani, Jimmy Ripp, Simon Phillips on drums and some young guy named Bernard Fowler.
pool's in but the patio ain't dry
pool's in but the patio ain't dry
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: November 13, 2020 01:41
Keith's point of view is accurate about Mick's tour:
Keith Richards (August 1988): Mick in Japan
I thought it was very sad that a high percentage of his show was Rolling Stones songs. If you're going to do something on your own, do stuff off the two albums you did. Don't pretend you're a solo artist and have two chicks prancing around doing Tumbling Dice, do you know what I mean? That severely pisses me off.
[timeisonourside.com]
It is interesting, though, to a point. It's too bad Mick didn't play the better (best) songs from PRIMITIVE COOL on the tour. Aside from Throwaway the rest of the PC songs don't make sense. But whatever. Pretty cheesy production nevertheless.
Keith Richards (August 1988): Mick in Japan
I thought it was very sad that a high percentage of his show was Rolling Stones songs. If you're going to do something on your own, do stuff off the two albums you did. Don't pretend you're a solo artist and have two chicks prancing around doing Tumbling Dice, do you know what I mean? That severely pisses me off.
[timeisonourside.com]
It is interesting, though, to a point. It's too bad Mick didn't play the better (best) songs from PRIMITIVE COOL on the tour. Aside from Throwaway the rest of the PC songs don't make sense. But whatever. Pretty cheesy production nevertheless.
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: November 13, 2020 05:35
Quote
GasLightStreet
Keith's point of view is accurate about Mick's tour:
Keith Richards (August 1988): Mick in Japan
I thought it was very sad that a high percentage of his show was Rolling Stones songs. If you're going to do something on your own, do stuff off the two albums you did. Don't pretend you're a solo artist and have two chicks prancing around doing Tumbling Dice, do you know what I mean? That severely pisses me off.
[timeisonourside.com]
It is interesting, though, to a point. It's too bad Mick didn't play the better (best) songs from PRIMITIVE COOL on the tour. Aside from Throwaway the rest of the PC songs don't make sense. But whatever. Pretty cheesy production nevertheless.
Yes, from today's viewpoint it looks ridiculous to tour solo with a large part of your setlist made up by songs of your band.
But this does not take into account the climate of the times. At least in Europe during 1982, Stones shows were not reviewed all too favourably by the media and even large portions of their fans. I've read reviews that claimed that the band sounded like a pupil's band, ramshackle, some good moments, but uninspired and exhausted all the way or all in all, unprofessional, like a garage band, like a parody of themselves etc. The freshness that came with the 1978 tour suddenly seemed to turn against them. Mainstream stadium rock was taking over. "Dirty Work" was a lowpoint in their recording career.
I think it was exactly this mindframe that Jagger decided to "professionalize" the live act if the Stones would want to have a future at all.
His solo shows and the arrangements of Stones songs were imo a signal to Keith like: "We will do it like this way in future or we won't do anything at all and I will carry on like this!"
Was Jagger right or wrong? I mean, as much as I like the roughness of their 1981/82 tours, can one really imagine stuff like Ruby Tuesday, Paint It Black, 2000 Light Years, Sympathy For The Devil, Midnight Rambler or the like being played with that setup?
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: November 13, 2020 05:51
Quote
GasLightStreet
Keith's point of view is accurate about Mick's tour:
Keith Richards (August 1988): Mick in Japan
I thought it was very sad that a high percentage of his show was Rolling Stones songs. If you're going to do something on your own, do stuff off the two albums you did. Don't pretend you're a solo artist and have two chicks prancing around doing Tumbling Dice, do you know what I mean? That severely pisses me off.
[timeisonourside.com]
It is interesting, though, to a point. It's too bad Mick didn't play the better (best) songs from PRIMITIVE COOL on the tour. Aside from Throwaway the rest of the PC songs don't make sense. But whatever. Pretty cheesy production nevertheless.
Gotta agree with Keith here, and can't blame Mick for not playing more of his solo material because maybe he realized it was weak for the most part, and a majority in attendance wanted Stones songs.
Unfortunately for Mick, the Stones songs sounded like glorified/sterilized cover band material which is essentially what it was. All great musicians no doubt, but they sucked the heart, soul, and life out of it all.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
SKILLS
()
Date: November 13, 2020 09:47
As described above this tour set the template for Steel Wheels, as a punter who attended a few days short of his 18th Birthday, I loved it, I thought as others, that we may never see The Stones Down Under again, so i'm coming down on the side of "This is what i'll do without you, unless we get our shit sorted" angle, as Jagger could have been doing this Solo for the last 32 years and shared nothing but Royalties and made immense money, probably more than his 1/4 split since 1994
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
bitusa2012
()
Date: November 13, 2020 10:05
Saw him at Perth’s now demolished Superdome at The Casino.
I remember the sound was absolutely atrocious. Disgraceful. I remember being in floor seats. When the band took the stage everyone simply got up and walked over their seats to stage front. So a great of people standing in front of stage about 15 rows deep, then 20 or so empty rows of seats. It looked weird.
And the superdome, having an inflatable roof, was pressurised. As wet walked out of the dome, the revolving doors literally threw us out! Strange feeling.
The show though? Yep, agree with others that the thought of never seeing the actual Stones again in Australia meant this was maybe as close as we were going to get. So I went. But it wasn’t my real cup of tea. Primarily I guess because of that sound. It was boomy, echoey and dull.
Rod
I remember the sound was absolutely atrocious. Disgraceful. I remember being in floor seats. When the band took the stage everyone simply got up and walked over their seats to stage front. So a great of people standing in front of stage about 15 rows deep, then 20 or so empty rows of seats. It looked weird.
And the superdome, having an inflatable roof, was pressurised. As wet walked out of the dome, the revolving doors literally threw us out! Strange feeling.
The show though? Yep, agree with others that the thought of never seeing the actual Stones again in Australia meant this was maybe as close as we were going to get. So I went. But it wasn’t my real cup of tea. Primarily I guess because of that sound. It was boomy, echoey and dull.
Rod
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
IrelandCalling4
()
Date: November 13, 2020 15:06
Haven't seen this in nigh on 16 year, have the DVD but not seen since 2004 or so.
Will enjoy this and the Tokyo show on YouTube this weekend.
Will enjoy this and the Tokyo show on YouTube this weekend.
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: November 13, 2020 15:39
So, this was the reason he put the Stones on halt for seven years? I see...
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
floodonthepage
()
Date: November 13, 2020 17:37
Good lord, Jimmy Rip is so painfully average and such a Keith wannabe...down to some of the poses/stances and the scarves. He is part of the reason I think 'Wandering Spirit' is so overrated and why the early albums are better despite the 80's slick production, if for no other reason than the presence of Jeff Beck, Vernon Reid, Nile Rodgers, Pete Townshend, Herbie Hancock etc...though I think Rip does appear a bit on the 'Primitive Cool' album.
It was very interesting to hear Jagger do "Wild Colonial Boy". I never knew he performed that one. Man, I haven't watched "Ned Kelly" in years.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-13 17:40 by floodonthepage.
It was very interesting to hear Jagger do "Wild Colonial Boy". I never knew he performed that one. Man, I haven't watched "Ned Kelly" in years.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-13 17:40 by floodonthepage.
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: November 13, 2020 19:45
Why blame Jimmy Rip? He's doing what he's paid for. Professionally so. He can't turn himself into Keith Richards. The blame belongs somewhere else...
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: November 13, 2020 19:51
Yeah who can we blame ???
Theres gotta be someone .......
ROCKMAN
Theres gotta be someone .......
ROCKMAN
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: November 13, 2020 19:59
... Allen Klein?
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
ryanpow
()
Date: November 13, 2020 21:49
---
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-13 21:49 by ryanpow.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-13 21:49 by ryanpow.
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: November 13, 2020 22:36
Be fair boys ...
You know they have to be a living person ....
I shouted out who employed Jimmy Ripp .....
ROCKMAN
You know they have to be a living person ....
I shouted out who employed Jimmy Ripp .....
ROCKMAN
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
mickboy33
()
Date: November 13, 2020 22:47
I have to say, I really like the version of Brown Sugar in this video.
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
floodonthepage
()
Date: November 14, 2020 01:53
Quote
Stoneage
Why blame Jimmy Rip? He's doing what he's paid for. Professionally so. He can't turn himself into Keith Richards. The blame belongs somewhere else...
Ummmmm...what? You just made my point. You're right, he can't turn himself into Keith Richards. Exactly right. If you're a wannabe the blames belongs with the person wanting to be. Who do you blame for that? He could be Mick's guitar player and do his own thing, but he seems to me to be trying to be Keith, and failing. It's my opinion anyway. Maybe some people find him to be an incredibly dynamic, unique musician. I don't. And yeah, of course he's doing what he's paid for, I just find him to be average and derivative.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-14 02:08 by floodonthepage.
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: November 14, 2020 02:08
Quote
floodonthepageQuote
Stoneage
Why blame Jimmy Rip? He's doing what he's paid for. Professionally so. He can't turn himself into Keith Richards. The blame belongs somewhere else...
Ummmmm...what? You just made my point. You're right, he can't turn himself into Keith Richards. Exactly. If you're a wannabe the blames belongs with the person wanting to be.
That's not a point. That is an assumption from your side. You assume he wants to be Keith Richards. You claim he's a Keith Richards wannabe. I don't think anything of that is true.
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
floodonthepage
()
Date: November 14, 2020 02:13
Quote
StoneageQuote
floodonthepageQuote
Stoneage
Why blame Jimmy Rip? He's doing what he's paid for. Professionally so. He can't turn himself into Keith Richards. The blame belongs somewhere else...
Ummmmm...what? You just made my point. You're right, he can't turn himself into Keith Richards. Exactly. If you're a wannabe the blames belongs with the person wanting to be.
That's not a point. That is an assumption from your side. You assume he wants to be Keith Richards. You claim he's a Keith Richards wannabe. I don't think anything of that is true.
Seriously? It is a point. You don't think it's true. That's an opinion. My post is also an opinion. The point being that he can't turn himself into Keith. That's a point we seem to agree on. The rest of this is unraveling a bit. I'm not a Rip fan, I'll leave it at that. Gold Rings On Ya.
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: November 14, 2020 02:18
Sure, f o t p. Let's leave it there. But for the sake of clarity: The burden of proof is on your side. You made the claim. I didn't. But it doesn't matter. So let's leave it there.
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: November 14, 2020 02:27
Maybe Rip was paid by Mick to sort of be a facsimile of Keith...a Keith clone...a Keith-alike...a Keith wannabe...to give the appearance of Keith...sort of a shadow and an echo of the real thing...
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
floodonthepage
()
Date: November 14, 2020 02:34
Quote
Hairball
Maybe Rip was paid by Mick to sort of be a facsimile of Keith...a Keith clone...a Keith-alike...a Keith wannabe...to give the appearance of Keith...sort of a shadow and an echo of the real thing...
Maybe. That seems quite plausible to me.
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
jbwelda
()
Date: November 14, 2020 03:14
And then he could be a facsimile of Mick Jagger and no one would notice!
Brilliant!
jb
Brilliant!
jb
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: November 14, 2020 03:27
But everybody's tryin so very hard ta be just like Keith .......
ROCKMAN
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: November 14, 2020 03:28
Quote
retired_dogQuote
GasLightStreet
Keith's point of view is accurate about Mick's tour:
Keith Richards (August 1988): Mick in Japan
I thought it was very sad that a high percentage of his show was Rolling Stones songs. If you're going to do something on your own, do stuff off the two albums you did. Don't pretend you're a solo artist and have two chicks prancing around doing Tumbling Dice, do you know what I mean? That severely pisses me off.
[timeisonourside.com]
It is interesting, though, to a point. It's too bad Mick didn't play the better (best) songs from PRIMITIVE COOL on the tour. Aside from Throwaway the rest of the PC songs don't make sense. But whatever. Pretty cheesy production nevertheless.
Yes, from today's viewpoint it looks ridiculous to tour solo with a large part of your setlist made up by songs of your band.
But this does not take into account the climate of the times. At least in Europe during 1982, Stones shows were not reviewed all too favourably by the media and even large portions of their fans. I've read reviews that claimed that the band sounded like a pupil's band, ramshackle, some good moments, but uninspired and exhausted all the way or all in all, unprofessional, like a garage band, like a parody of themselves etc. The freshness that came with the 1978 tour suddenly seemed to turn against them. Mainstream stadium rock was taking over. "Dirty Work" was a lowpoint in their recording career.
I think it was exactly this mindframe that Jagger decided to "professionalize" the live act if the Stones would want to have a future at all.
His solo shows and the arrangements of Stones songs were imo a signal to Keith like: "We will do it like this way in future or we won't do anything at all and I will carry on like this!"
Was Jagger right or wrong? I mean, as much as I like the roughness of their 1981/82 tours, can one really imagine stuff like Ruby Tuesday, Paint It Black, 2000 Light Years, Sympathy For The Devil, Midnight Rambler or the like being played with that setup?
That last bit you mentioned, I've often wondered that! What would SFTD've sounded like! Or Midnight Rambler? Probably much worse than the 1975-76 versions?
I'm not convinced of that. Angie, of all songs (Bill KILLS it!), was actually pretty damn good, and its delicateness that is similar to how Ruby Tuesday, Paint If Black and the extreme opposite with SFTD and Midnight Rambler is, they might've been invigoratingly (and considerably differently) good. If there's any indication of that I think you can find it with Honky Tonk Women and Tumbling Dice (Jumpin' Jack Flash is horrible, just as bad as it was in 1972 and ever since).
I certainly understand the point of view of Mick doing what he did in 1988 and making that the frame for the future of the Stones live, at least, as it turned out to be, with STEEL WHEELS/URBAN JUNGLE.
Fortunately that relaxed quite a bit for VOODOO and BRIDGES as they got back to sounding more like a band than a glossy product.
Re: Mick Jagger - Live in Australia 1988/03/15-19
Posted by:
floodonthepage
()
Date: November 14, 2020 03:49
Quote
Rockman
But everybody's tryin so very hard ta be just like Keith .......
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Online Users
1963luca0 , arc-angel , DandelionPowderman , douglasmanso , Doxa , falo01 , jigsaw69 , maumau , novica , Stonesfan2146 , superglen , wolundamo
Guests:
1735
Record Number of Users:
206
on June 1, 2022 23:50
Record Number of Guests:
9627
on January 2, 2024 23:10