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Witness

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georgie48

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Witness
If UNDERCOVER had been more favourably received, Keith and Mick would have had larger incentives to make their contributions into a mutual effort. To me that was the fatal occasion, georgie48, I have thought for a long time. Several Stones albums could have followed.

You're right. UNDERCOVER looks like a real J/R efford, but maybe they went a bit to far with looking for new ways of creating songs. I'm fine with that album, but many were not. DIRTY WORK should never have been made the way is was made. A real shame. But they came back together and we're all very happy ever since (all with our own tastes ). 35 years later! (Not with the second corona wave, though )

The progression of albums that were Pathe Marconi, was broken though. The band was never able to reach that level of quality again by combined inspiration and sufficient work in the studios later on. Without that break of progression further albums in a similar vein might have followed in the wake of EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER. Those potensial albums that we did not receive, are our great loss.

The albums that later actually followed, could not measure with those that should have ensued with the continuity preserved.

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VoodooLounge13

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Witness

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georgie48

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Witness
If UNDERCOVER had been more favourably received, Keith and Mick would have had larger incentives to make their contributions into a mutual effort. To me that was the fatal occasion, georgie48, I have thought for a long time. Several Stones albums could have followed.

You're right. UNDERCOVER looks like a real J/R efford, but maybe they went a bit to far with looking for new ways of creating songs. I'm fine with that album, but many were not. DIRTY WORK should never have been made the way is was made. A real shame. But they came back together and we're all very happy ever since (all with our own tastes ). 35 years later! (Not with the second corona wave, though )

The progression of albums that were Pathe Marconi, was broken though. The band was never able to reach that level of quality again by combined inspiration and sufficient work in the studios later on. Without that break of progression further albums in a similar vein might have followed in the wake of EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER. Those potensial albums that we did not receive, are our great loss.

The albums that later actually followed, could not measure with those that should have ensued with the continuity preserved.

Thank GOD we didn't get anything more in the ER, U vein!!! Phew!! I might never have gotten into them!!

I'm curious does anyone know if this song is about any of Mick's women in particular? I was just listening to it and the song stuck out to me as well, and I don't recall it doing that previously. Personally, I find She's the Boss to be Mick's least approachable solo album.

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micha063
Hard Woman is one of the two Mick Jagger solo songs I cover with my accoustic and singing. It's interesting to find out which song works for me stripped down. Hard Woman is not a sp g I play very often but from time zo time its joyfull and fun.

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treaclefingers

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VoodooLounge13

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Witness

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georgie48

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Witness
If UNDERCOVER had been more favourably received, Keith and Mick would have had larger incentives to make their contributions into a mutual effort. To me that was the fatal occasion, georgie48, I have thought for a long time. Several Stones albums could have followed.

You're right. UNDERCOVER looks like a real J/R efford, but maybe they went a bit to far with looking for new ways of creating songs. I'm fine with that album, but many were not. DIRTY WORK should never have been made the way is was made. A real shame. But they came back together and we're all very happy ever since (all with our own tastes ). 35 years later! (Not with the second corona wave, though )

The progression of albums that were Pathe Marconi, was broken though. The band was never able to reach that level of quality again by combined inspiration and sufficient work in the studios later on. Without that break of progression further albums in a similar vein might have followed in the wake of EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER. Those potensial albums that we did not receive, are our great loss.

The albums that later actually followed, could not measure with those that should have ensued with the continuity preserved.

Thank GOD we didn't get anything more in the ER, U vein!!! Phew!! I might never have gotten into them!!

I'm curious does anyone know if this song is about any of Mick's women in particular? I was just listening to it and the song stuck out to me as well, and I don't recall it doing that previously. Personally, I find She's the Boss to be Mick's least approachable solo album.

yeah, I gotta disagree with that. Both ER and U are excellent albums, not to the level of the BIG 4, Some Girls or Tattoo You but just a step below.

It was the poor sales of Undercover, with the ecletic but maybe not embraceable single (which I love to this day), couple with the odd album cover that I think had the larger album buying public 'passing' this time. Too bad for us, because coupled with the increasing Mick/Keith tensions this was a signal to them (IMHO) or at least to Mick, that the duo's creative magic was over and time to 'move on.org.

So the rest is history.

If the album had sold in greater numbers I do think we'd have a completely different history...another tour in 1984, new album an so on.

We'll never know for sure but that's my read.

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Witness
I forgot to quote, this post, written on a mobile, is addressed towards the post from VoodooLounge13: To me EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER belong to the approximately 12 great Rolling Stones albums, (TATTOO YOU not among them). Where I many years ago held BEGGARS BANQUET as their greatest album, it became a relief to me in the distant past, when I stopped ranking between the said 12 albums, UNDERCOVER as the latest and possibly the last great album of theirs.

In contrast, the albums DIRTY WORK, STEEL WHEELS and VOODOO LOUNGE to me represent the largest slump in their career. BRIDGES TO BABYLON I think verges on the semi-great. Somehow that applies to A BIGGER BANG, too, though with some minus for being a little too "safe".

Otherwise, I am quite or very much in agreement with treacle's post above.

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BlueTurns2Grey

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Witness

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Rockman
Album version - 4.23
Single version - 3.50

Thank you, Rockman!
Presented that way, it seems that they are not really different, apart from the single version apparently being an edit. In that case, I don't need it.

They are totally diffrent, the single version is not an edit.
Album version: [youtu.be]
Single version: [youtu.be]

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Witness

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Taylor1

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KRiffhard

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Hairball
Both versions are very poor.

...horrible song.

Its funny,and everyone is entitled to their opinion ,but in my opinion it’s a great song with great lyrics.I love a lot of Micks solo music like this,Say You Will ,Throwaway,Goddess in a Doorway, Don’t Tear Me Up, Charmed Life,and songs he did with the Stones like Out of Control, Blinded by Rainbows,Anybody See. My Baby, where he is trying to do something different than classic Stones.Sometimes he does fail.Maybe Keith has been too hostile to experimentation.Perhaps he could have been more receptive to Micks attempts and could have helped improve them.I find most of his so l o music boring and the same old stuff.Tired of listening to predictable r &b songs .

I have to say that even to me, this point of view becomes too onesided. Keith's TALK IS CHEAP I find marginally better than Mick's WANDERING SPIRIT, because as to the latter I end up missing the band. "I hate it when you leave" is also a magic song, even if MAIN OFFENDER to me becomes somewhat monotous in its quite good stuff. I am very reserved towards CROSSEYED HEART though.

I like SHE'S THE BOSS quite much, but PRIMITIVE COOL a little less, not saying that is indifferent or worse. I also find things to enjoy in GODDESS IN THE DOORWAY as a pronounced non-Stones solo album, but then can't compare its contents with Stones songs or Stones oriented solo songs.

As to Stones songs from both Mick and Keith post-UNDERCOVER, to me there are songs to enjoy that may be good or semi-great, but not so often outright great. I would like some more nuances in judgements of songs from these later decades.

I agree that I would have liked Keith to be more willing to participate in expanding the boundaries for what a Stones song may be like. That would also increase the enjoyment of not so experimenting songs.