Are people really that desperate for new material at any cost? They're in their late 70s and have been making music for almost six decades.

If they cant write songs anymore (and really, how difficult is it for three songwriters to write ten songs every decade?) then just admit there's no point in sourcing outside material that they probably wont even perform anyway.

You're right, Gazza. By now it doesn't matter. They are on the finishing lap. I was thinking more like some decade, or two, ago. Just thinking aloud. No big deal.

Just do it , pay someone off and have a secrecy clause and everyone is happy. I am sure dozens (hundreds) of people around the world could write a more interesting Stones tune than the gentlemen themselves these days, and would be happy to keep quiet for a few grand.

Mick - here is my phone number:

><

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DandelionPowderman
They can have this one (or not)





[www.youtube.com]

Some good Keith style riffs there, Dandy. Keep it up. Good stuff.

They've always had outside song writers, they just don't give them credit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-29 22:54 by ryanpow.

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ryanpow
They've always had outside song writers, they just don't give them credit.

Looking back at the producers, especially Jimmy Miller, his influence was huge, and their "borrowing" from history, I guess in some ways they have always cherry picked bits and pieces from here and there.

I was watching "Still Crazy" the other night and the tracks that Mick Jones & Marti Fredrickson turned out were in the spirit & style of the 70's era, reminds me of Tom Petty on the Simpson's "Rock Camp" episode when he plays some wordy song to the confusion of Homer and Co, then plays something generic and voila, the crowds are happy... hmm

dumb idea .... Mick and Keef
have pissarsed around with others
here and there but the best stuff
has always come from The Glimmers ...

Get ALO ta lock 'em in a room tagether again ....



ROCKMAN

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Rockman
dumb idea .... Mick and Keef
have pissarsed around with others
here and there but the best stuff
has always come from The Glimmers ...

Rockman, I realised that I couldn't follow you up on them lyrics, the chorus on 2 sentenes was too difficult,
I thought about the kid shouting that the lovers should be doing it in the toolshed instead of ruining his flowers, but it really wasn't up to Winter or Shine A Light,

2nd verse should be combined with Keith's ballad about sailing too Bali in an open fishing boat, but....I just can't make it. It's more difficult than I thought



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-30 00:47 by Erik_Snow.

Sailing to Bali for a popcorn and chocolate pizza.


That's why.

jb



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-30 00:50 by jbwelda.

The problem is Erik that ....
There's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING rock n roll about Bali ... NOTHING



ROCKMAN

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Rockman
The problem is Erik that ....
There's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING rock n roll about Bali ... NOTHING

Really? How about baking princess cake? Or searching all over the hourse for ones slippers?

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jbwelda
Paul Stanley? You mean KISS?

Jesus Christ, now I have heard everything. Of course KISS does it, they got no talent beyond long disgusting tongues, and that only takes one so far.

Next

jb

Yep KISS,

What are your Rock n' Roll of Fame credentials, have you sold 100m albums, had more Gold records than any other band.

You don't have to like a Band, but I find it pays to be respectful of other's achievements, especially when you have none of your own

Your a bit of reactionary though JB so it's in keeping with the negative tone of your contrarian contribution

.... they can don a Stones T-shirt
and say Howdy mate .... but no no there's nothing ....

They dont have no boogie in their woogeeeees ...



ROCKMAN

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ryanpow
They've always had outside song writers, they just don't give them credit.

LOL

Harsh - but fair!!!

Well then sKILLs, now I have heard everything, once again. Here I thought KISS was strictly for thirteen year old girls, or maybe basement dwelling Kabuki enthusiasts. And you know, your little attempt at character assassination kind of fits that stereotype too. So thanks for the confirmation.

It doesn't take much "rock and roll credentials" (thats hilarious in and of itself) to call it as I see it. KISS and "rock and roll" don't belong in the same sentence. Hows that for "reactionary"?

jb

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jbwelda
Well then sKILLs, now I have heard everything, once again. Here I thought KISS was strictly for thirteen year old girls, or maybe basement dwelling Kabuki enthusiasts. And you know, your little attempt at character assassination kind of fits that stereotype too. So thanks for the confirmation.

It doesn't take much "rock and roll credentials" (thats hilarious in and of itself) to call it as I see it. KISS and "rock and roll" don't belong in the same sentence. Hows that for "reactionary"?

jb

Expected, your like a wind up kids toy

Like Robert Johnson...Chuck Berry...?

They wouldnt be Rolling Stones songs if somebody else wrote them.

To take it a step further do you think at this stage of the game they could trick us into believing a tune that is not written by them and tried to pass off as theirs would not pass muster/sniff test or whatever else . We all know how Mick writes his tunes , we know how Keith writes his tunes , we know how the Glimmer Twins write there tunes together ( jeez I really miss the old days where they actually worked together on there masterpieces ) No way and they are smart enough to know that as well . Any output we get now a days is better than nothing , and the recent few crumbs they have tossed our way are eagerly eaten up by us . They have a goldmine and a legacy after all ,and they are like the proverbial horse and carriage as you cant have one without the other , and that was not meant derogatory at all . The proof in the pudding for myself is that if they release anything with there iconic Logo that is for sale in the shops I am snapping it up on it's release date . It's is fun looking forward to the new releases like Steel Wheels live and like the new GHS of which I have listened to a few times and like the new tunes ,I haven't gotten around to Steel Wheels yet but I will surely .

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Stoneage
Jagger is already stealing songs from the charts. Like Anybody Seen My Baby for instance.

There is nothing new in that. Him and Keith has been doing that since the day they started making songs (like all great song-writers of their generation and ever). Some of those 'borrowings' turned out to be hit singles and iconic songs. k.d.lang got lucky due to their tight schedule ($$$$) back then - just to avoid any possible hassle 'just in case'. Getting a credit was a nice surprise to k.d. lang - like she said she was “completely honored and flattered”. Would there been a law suit, if not co-credited, I highly doubt...

Had they have had more daughters with good ears around while writing stuff like "The Last Time", "Satisfaction" and "Paint It Black" we might have seen a lot of co-creditions.... Even if the artist in question could not be named - being even the famous 'trad' - that still would be, to use your way to put it, "stealing songs from the charts".

Only God, if exists, creates something out of nothing... of the more mortal artists, the true pros steal....

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-30 14:33 by Doxa.

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jbwelda
Well then sKILLs, now I have heard everything, once again. Here I thought KISS was strictly for thirteen year old girls, or maybe basement dwelling Kabuki enthusiasts. And you know, your little attempt at character assassination kind of fits that stereotype too. So thanks for the confirmation.

It doesn't take much "rock and roll credentials" (thats hilarious in and of itself) to call it as I see it. KISS and "rock and roll" don't belong in the same sentence. Hows that for "reactionary"?

jb

Is there really that much in it between KISS and the Stones? They're both fairly unremarkable in the musicianship department, both playing accessible, family friendly stadium/arena rock with a setlist mostly comprised of war horses, both famous for their iconic image/merchandise, both well-known for rinsing their fans of every single penny/dollar and trading on nostalgia. Past 1981 the Stones have been just as corporate and money oriented as Kiss ever were, just on a much bigger scale.

At their peak, I would even suggest that Paul Stanley was a FAR more accomplished vocalist than Jagger - Mick would never have been able to do justice to Kiss songs like Sure Know Something or I Still Love You, but Paul could easily belt out any Stones song including the falsetto parts.

I'd also argue that the Stones have far more stinkers in their catalogue than Kiss in terms of albums. Even at their worst, Kiss never put out an LP as awful as Dirty Work. As for live albums, Kiss clearly win this as well with their sublime Alive! LP. And of course Kiss put on in infinitely superior stageshow, that isn't even debatable.

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Doxa

Quote
Stoneage
Jagger is already stealing songs from the charts. Like Anybody Seen My Baby for instance.

There is nothing new in that. Him and Keith has been doing that since the day they started making songs (like all great song-writers of their generation and ever). Some of those 'borrowings' turned out to be hit singles and iconic songs. k.d.lang got lucky due to their tight schedule ($$$$) back then - just to avoid any possible hassle 'just in case'. Getting a credit was a nice surprise to k.d. lang - like she said she was “completely honored and flattered”. Would there been a law suit, if not co-credited, I highly doubt...

Had they have had more daughters with good ears around while writing stuff like "The Last Time", "Satisfaction" and "Paint It Black" we might have seen a lot of co-creditions.... Even if the artist in question could not be named - being even the famous 'trad' - that still would be, to use your way to put it, "stealing songs from the charts".

Only God, if exists, creates something out of nothing... of the more mortal artists, the true pros steal....

- Doxa

Which song was PIB "inspired" by?

Isn't that what a "Cover" is?

It’s called “royalties”

Rod

Nah, they could command and dictate royalties and even publishing. Elvis did. The only way this could work is if a hit single was written for them to lead off the album with. Then the rest, filler if you like, would be their own compositions. This was the Dirty Work formula and we all love that offering!

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DandelionPowderman



Which song was PIB "inspired" by?

At the time "Paint It Black" was recorded there had been on the charts - just a few months earlier - "My World Is Empty Without You" by Supremes. The rough idea of basic melody line and structure of "Paint it Black" is there. Have a listen... It wasn't the first or last time Keith or other English rockers were listening Motown and other American R&B artists ears open and picking up 'inspiration'...

However, Keith's greatness - a touch of genius actually - was continue the basic riff/melody line of the verse by additional notes, which give the song its peculiar and irrestible Eastern twist (or 'Gypsy' like Keith himself has described it), the point Brian's sitar really really hit home - actually coping, consciously or not, note to note an actual arabic folk song, expect the 'original' have one extra lower note added to the melody (I tried to find it on youtube but sorry couldn't - the resemblance was shown to me ages ago). Keith's antenna had a huge radius at the time...

(The Beatlogists would say something about the example of "Norwegian Wood" (sitar) and "Eleonar Rigby" (lyrical idea) but they talk always so much and see things nobody else does, so let us not count them.)

As is with great art: no matter the 'inspiration', that is, picking up certain ideas and elements from here and there, the result is unique and original sounding. And it is their most popular song nowadays!

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-30 18:00 by Doxa.

Quote
Doxa

Quote
DandelionPowderman



Which song was PIB "inspired" by?

At the time "Paint It Black" was recorded there had been on the charts - just a few months earlier - "My World Is Empty Without You" by Supremes. The rough idea of basic melody line and structure of "Paint it Black" is there. Have a listen... It wasn't the first or last time Keith or other English rockers were listening Motown and other American R&B artists ears open and picking up 'inspiration'...

However, Keith's greatness - a touch of genius actually - was continue the basic riff/melody line of the verse by additional notes, which give the song its peculiar and irrestible Eastern twist (or 'Gypsy' like Keith himself has described it), the point Brian's sitar really really hit home - actually coping, consciously or not, note to note an actual arabic folk song, expect the 'original' have one extra lower note added to the melody (I tried to find it on youtube but sorry couldn't - the resemblance was shown to me ages ago). Keith's antenna had a huge radius at the time...

(The Beatlogists would say something about the example of "Norwegian Wood" (sitar) and "Eleonar Rigby" (lyrical idea) but they talk always so much and see things nobody else does, so let us not count them.)

As is with great art: no matter the 'inspiration', that is, picking up certain ideas and elements from here and there, the result is unique and original sounding. And it is their most popular song nowadays!

- Doxa

I hear what you are saying and making some great points and i would also add that the Beatles tunes you referenced versus Paint It Black for example rocks more where the Beatles 2 tunes are more of the folk variety . Then take Lady Jayne and it has some elements such as Norwegian Wood but i can't draw a line together linking the 2 . Who knows maybe the Glimmers were watching and listening closely yet coming up with there own perspective on the melodies . At the end i am severely biased towards the Glimmers .

in the early days they covered other peoples songs anyway, they could still do that, dosent have to be the blues, there are other stuff they could do, i dont have a problem with outside songwriters as long as the songs are not credited to jagger/richards theres no problem, give the writing credits to whoever wrote the songs, but is there really a point, not as if they will tour all these songs anyway, so little chance of hearing them live, it would just be like the early records of cover songs.

they are not big on writing their own stuff anymore, they are in their late 70,s and the end of the rolling stones is getting nearer. we will get some more gigs with a bit of luck, the odd single and more of the vaults live and outtakes, its better than nothing,we should be grateful for that.

What's the point now, it would have made sense in the beginning of their careers when they needed the hits and exposure.. now the remaining fans just want some Jagger/Richards songs, if they wanted Max Martin songs they would listen to someone else

I cant believe this topic actually started. I think Ive heard it all now. Almost aa ridiculous as "Blondie under the stage covering up for Keith".