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KevinM
You Don't Have To Mean It
Thief In The Night
Victor Hugo
Can't Cut The Mustard

You Win Again
Had It With You
Just Because 1&2

The Dog
Dog Shit
etc.

Undercover is a decent album, especially capping off a 20+yr run. She Was Hot & Undercover of the Night are as good as anything on Tattoo You, imho, save for Hang Fire.

Can't Cut The Mustard is Had It With You.

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DandelionPowderman

Quote
KevinM
You Don't Have To Mean It
Thief In The Night
Victor Hugo
Can't Cut The Mustard

You Win Again
Had It With You
Just Because 1&2

The Dog
Dog Shit
etc.

Undercover is a decent album, especially capping off a 20+yr run. She Was Hot & Undercover of the Night are as good as anything on Tattoo You, imho, save for Hang Fire.

Can't Cut The Mustard is Had It With You.

Thanks for the info DandelionPowderman. After Tattoo You, my knowledge of their catalog is pretty limited & murky. I wish there was a searchable spreadsheet that had every song (especially multiple titles for the same track) listed, i.e., 'I Ain't Lying' & 'I'm Not Signifying' etc.

EDIT: while CCTM & HIWY are the same instrumental track, they're 2 different lead vocalists (Keef vs. Mick) respectively & different lyrics, kinda like Good Time Women & Tumbling Dice (I much prefer the former).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-05 16:49 by KevinM.

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Taylor1
Songs like Out of Tears, She Was Hot, One Hit
o the Body,Slipping Away, Mixed Emotions,Out of Control,Anybody Seen My Baby, Too Tight , One Hit to the Body, Blinded By Rainbows are all great

Funny that all but one on your list were done live. Funny also, all of these except that same one are on my list of the "few" songs that could make one good album.

Don't think I've ever heard Too Tight.

"make up your mind, 'cause I gotta go"

Too Tight, while a good little rocker, is extremely pedestrian. Strangely it fits rather well on BRIDGES.

Undercover I have always loved, it may not objectively be a great Stones record but it is one of the most rhythmic, raunchy and groovy records they have. Really came swaggering into the 80s on that one; re-stating their love of black music for a new decade: reggae, lots of funk, Sugar Hill Records rap touches. Mixed with new wave and lead by one of their best songs in the title track.

Dirty Work is mostly very good, but its reputation is dire. Compared to Exile it is pretty weak but One Hit, Dirty Work, Keith's two (Jimmy Cliff on Too Rude, Sleep Tonight), Harlem Shuffle and Had it With You I like very much.

Steel Wheels, funnily enough it took me 25 years to really rate it highly but I do. Always felt two thirds of it was actually pretty great with one third generic. Didn't like the tour as much as others due to its sli kness but over the years have really warmed up to the tours in 89 and 90. The Training Wheels and Monitor Mixes were amazing also.

Basically I think all albums post 1981 are worthy, with some being almost great. ABB for example is too long, but my own 12-track ipod version is a brilliant collection. Babylon I have to say equals it; the 97-99 tour was a triumph, the proshots from those years never disappoint and I return to the album frequently even 23 years later.

Compared to their 60s/70s contemporaries, and to other rock acts ongoing (Aerosmith..etc), Stones latter day work is worthy!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-05 22:15 by IrelandCalling4.

Quote
KevinM

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
KevinM
You Don't Have To Mean It
Thief In The Night
Victor Hugo
Can't Cut The Mustard

You Win Again
Had It With You
Just Because 1&2

The Dog
Dog Shit
etc.

Undercover is a decent album, especially capping off a 20+yr run. She Was Hot & Undercover of the Night are as good as anything on Tattoo You, imho, save for Hang Fire.

Can't Cut The Mustard is Had It With You.

Thanks for the info DandelionPowderman. After Tattoo You, my knowledge of their catalog is pretty limited & murky. I wish there was a searchable spreadsheet that had every song (especially multiple titles for the same track) listed, i.e., 'I Ain't Lying' & 'I'm Not Signifying' etc.

EDIT: while CCTM & HIWY are the same instrumental track, they're 2 different lead vocalists (Keef vs. Mick) respectively & different lyrics, kinda like Good Time Women & Tumbling Dice (I much prefer the former).

It's actually Ronnie singing At least on the version I have heard.

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BOBM

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Taylor1
Songs like Out of Tears, She Was Hot, One Hit
o the Body,Slipping Away, Mixed Emotions,Out of Control,Anybody Seen My Baby, Too Tight , One Hit to the Body, Blinded By Rainbows are all great

Funny that all but one on your list were done live. Funny also, all of these except that same one are on my list of the "few" songs that could make one good album.

Don't think I've ever heard Too Tight.

Too Tight and Blinded By Rainbows were never done live.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Blinded By Rainbows ... never done live.

I confused the title with Blinded By Love. Thanks for the correction.

Incidentally, both are nice ballads.

"make up your mind, 'cause I gotta go"

hey you get off of my lawn.

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KevinM
I couldn't even name 1 song after early '80s McCartney, it's just fluff & crap...feel free to elaborate either way if you know better.

I have to say I disagree strongly.

It seems to me that Paul McCartney suffers from the same prejudice the Stones suffer from. In my opinion people who say the Stones haven't put out a good song since "Tattoo You" just haven't been listening. They're judging the whole output based on a small handful of singles they've heard once or twice on the radio or or once on tinny computer speakers under florescent lights in the middle of a workday - music best appreciated with a joint and a beer with the lights turned down low and the music turned up loud.

Same thing with McCartney. People heard a new single from Paul on the radio in the '80's and they found it insipid, so they think that's representative of his entire output since. (To be fair, Paul does sometimes choose one of his weaker tracks for singles, and actually has some of his best stuff as bonus tracks and b-sides.)

Here are a few post-80's Paul McCartney songs that I personally think are worthwhile listening. There are more, but in my opinion this is a decent sample of what I consider to be his best work from this era. I'd be curious to hear your opinions.

Great Day

Nothing Too Much Just Out Of Sight

Nothing For Free

Road

Nod Your Head

Struggle

Really Love You

Jenny Wren

Voodoo Lounge and Bridges toBabylon are full of excellent songs

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Taylor1
Voodoo Lounge and Bridges to Babylon are full of excellent songs

I agree ... I'd put Bigger Bang in the category of LP w/ some excellent songs too.

I like the Stones's more recent work, if we can call 40 years recent. For many years I would make mix tape versions and just leave out the songs I didn't like.

I can listen to Undercover and not want to skip a track. I think it's all good.

I like Dirty Work overall. I don't like Back To Zero or Hold Back. Cut those two songs, and I think becomes a nice, tight little album.

Steel Wheels - I've just never been able to groove on Mixed Emotions, Blinded By Love, and Almost Hear You Sigh. I appreciate Can't Be Seen and Slipping Away, but there's also something about them that doesn't make them keepers for me either. I have affection for this era, but the album overall isn't one of my favorites despite repeated attempts to get into it.

Voodoo Lounge is probably my favorite Stones album since Undercover, and one of my favorite Stones albums overall. I do still skip a number of tracks. Out Of Tears and Brand New Car are the ones that I truly don't like. I can take or leave New Faces, The Worst, and Sweethearts Together. Moon Is Up is possibly my favorite Rolling Stones song. I also love Mean Disposition, Sparks Will Fly, and I Go Wild.

Bridges To Babylon is a tough one. I don't often listen to it all the way through. I think Out Of Control and Saint Of Me rank among their best songs, but Anybody Seen My Baby is one of their worst. It's my least favorite Stones track. Already Over Me and Always Suffering sound like the same song to me. But I do like the controversial songs Might As Well Get Juiced and Gunface.

A Bigger Bang is a better album than I've given it credit for in the past. I don't like This Place Is Empty, Sweet Neo Con, or Driving Too Fast. Back Of My Hand is good, but seems to lack a spark to make it special. Drop those three or four, add Under The Radar and Don't Wanna Go Home, and then ABB becomes a very good album. I don't naturally gravitate toward ballads, but I honestly like Streets Of Love and Biggest Mistake.

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Taylor1
Voodoo Lounge and Bridges toBabylon are full of excellent songs

There are some excellent songs. There are a lot of bad songs.

Though not an A-Plus album, like Sticky Fingers, I think there are some great B-Plus, and a couple A-minus cuts on Steel Wheels. I remember hearing Slipping Away and thinking, yep, that's it, the final song that sums it all up beautifully. The after 1990 band accomplished nothing new in the studio. All their worthwhile Post Wyman albums and singles, excluding Blue and Lonesome, could easily fit onto a single LP.

There is so much great music, or current music, out there, that I don't have the time to listen to much after the Some Girls sessions. There are a few numbers I keep on shuffle -- Flip the Switch, Thief in the Night/How Can I Stop, Keith's first two solo albums and his 80s solo live stuff.
But really they have become their own live, tribute band since then.
The '80s were interesting in that it showed a band breaking up. The Steel Wheels tour showed them getting back together and creating the formula they have stuck with. It's been sometimes interesting since then, but yeah, after Tattoo You, the story had been written.

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24FPS
Though not an A-Plus album, like Sticky Fingers, I think there are some great B-Plus, and a couple A-minus cuts on Steel Wheels. I remember hearing Slipping Away and thinking, yep, that's it, the final song that sums it all up beautifully. The after 1990 band accomplished nothing new in the studio. All their worthwhile Post Wyman albums and singles, excluding Blue and Lonesome, could easily fit onto a single LP.

In strict regard to what you said, How Can I Stop is the one track post 1981 that is beyond outstanding.

There are some others that are pretty damn good but that one is the best from all that there is.

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jahisnotdead

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KevinM
I couldn't even name 1 song after early '80s McCartney, it's just fluff & crap...feel free to elaborate either way if you know better.

I have to say I disagree strongly.

It seems to me that Paul McCartney suffers from the same prejudice the Stones suffer from. In my opinion people who say the Stones haven't put out a good song since "Tattoo You" just haven't been listening. They're judging the whole output based on a small handful of singles they've heard once or twice on the radio or or once on tinny computer speakers under florescent lights in the middle of a workday - music best appreciated with a joint and a beer with the lights turned down low and the music turned up loud.

Same thing with McCartney. People heard a new single from Paul on the radio in the '80's and they found it insipid, so they think that's representative of his entire output since. (To be fair, Paul does sometimes choose one of his weaker tracks for singles, and actually has some of his best stuff as bonus tracks and b-sides.)

Here are a few post-80's Paul McCartney songs that I personally think are worthwhile listening. There are more, but in my opinion this is a decent sample of what I consider to be his best work from this era. I'd be curious to hear your opinions.

Great Day

Nothing Too Much Just Out Of Sight

Nothing For Free

Road

Nod Your Head

Struggle

Really Love You

Jenny Wren

Thanks for the recommendations, I'm always open to "new" songs/albums, especially from artists/bands I love. I hope to listen to them this week. Macca is next on my uber-deep dive of artists, an ongoing work in progress, lifetime project. If you haven't already, check out YT poster SirPaulRu, his homepage & especially the link below:


Paul McCartney - 250 bootlegs. (SirPaulRu YT poster)

...just for fun:

P.McCartney - Beware My Love w/**John Bonham** (Flac Audio) HD Sound


P.McCartney - My Carnival ( Party Mix)

Macca - Spies Like Us (party mix)

The Stones are & should be scrutinized like their 60s/70s fellow rockers, right or wrong, however they've fared well vs. the others, valid point. I've tried several times to get post '83 LP's & it hasn't "clicked", yet. It took me until 2018 just to somewhat like some of the Dirty Work/Steel Wheels Outtakes/Demos/Sessions. I'd really like to be able to like the later stuff, maybe it'll just take more time.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-07 04:14 by KevinM.

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KevinM
Thanks for the recommendations, I'm always open to "new" songs/albums, especially from artists/bands I love. I hope to listen to them this week. Macca is next on my uber-deep dive of artists, an ongoing work in progress, lifetime project. If you haven't already, check out YT poster SirPaulRu, his homepage & especially the link below:


Paul McCartney - 250 bootlegs. (SirPaulRu YT poster)

...just for fun:

P.McCartney - Beware My Love w/**John Bonham** (Flac Audio) HD Sound


P.McCartney - My Carnival ( Party Mix)

Macca - Spies Like Us (party mix)

The Stones are & should be scrutinized like their 60s/70s fellow rockers, right or wrong, however they've fared well vs. the others, valid point. I've tried several times to get post '83 LP's & it hasn't "clicked", yet. It took me until 2018 just to somewhat like some of the Dirty Work/Steel Wheels Outtakes/Demos/Sessions. I'd really like to be able to like the later stuff, maybe it'll just take more time.

Holy crap, thanks. That archive is incredible. I'm always much more interested in McCartney's deep tracks and b-sides than the singles and the hits. Everyone knows he can write pop songs and complex melodies, but I get just as much enjoyment from him grinding on a couple of chords for long sloppy jam.

I do hope you can find some of the later Stones stuff enjoyable. I think there's a lot of great songs on those albums. Keep working at it!

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jahisnotdead

Quote
KevinM
Thanks for the recommendations, I'm always open to "new" songs/albums, especially from artists/bands I love. I hope to listen to them this week. Macca is next on my uber-deep dive of artists, an ongoing work in progress, lifetime project. If you haven't already, check out YT poster SirPaulRu, his homepage & especially the link below:


Paul McCartney - 250 bootlegs. (SirPaulRu YT poster)

...just for fun:

P.McCartney - Beware My Love w/**John Bonham** (Flac Audio) HD Sound


P.McCartney - My Carnival ( Party Mix)

Macca - Spies Like Us (party mix)

The Stones are & should be scrutinized like their 60s/70s fellow rockers, right or wrong, however they've fared well vs. the others, valid point. I've tried several times to get post '83 LP's & it hasn't "clicked", yet. It took me until 2018 just to somewhat like some of the Dirty Work/Steel Wheels Outtakes/Demos/Sessions. I'd really like to be able to like the later stuff, maybe it'll just take more time.

Holy crap, thanks. That archive is incredible. I'm always much more interested in McCartney's deep tracks and b-sides than the singles and the hits. Everyone knows he can write pop songs and complex melodies, but I get just as much enjoyment from him grinding on a couple of chords for long sloppy jam.

I do hope you can find some of the later Stones stuff enjoyable. I think there's a lot of great songs on those albums. Keep working at it!

Yeah, it'll take me years to go through that Macca 250 bootleg archive, hopefully it's all still there as I do it. Obviously there's some duplicity, but I'm amazed at the volume itself. Lennon's got a lot of good stuff out there (beyond studio LP's), I much prefer his solo work to Paul's on a song for song/album for album basis, though Paul is & always will be my favorite Beatle. Lennon's Rock 'N Roll Music album is a beauty, his cover of Lloyd Price's 'Just Because' speaks to the heart.

I listened to each of your recommendations with an open mind, lights very low, no distractions @ night etc. None of them did anything for me unfortunately. It could be that we have varied taste within a particular artist/band though, as I'm sure that once I sample every studio LP from 1970 onward, I'll find more tracks to like, even post early 80s. Just by default if anything, due to the 100's of songs. I'm also not into the Gr.Hits/big hits type stuff, some of them are great, while others seem vastly overrated, if not very blah, i.e. Helen Wheels, Mull of Kintyre, Ebony & Ivory, Listen To What The Man Said, to name a few. The real crap is stuff like Temporary Secretary, Daytime Nighttime Suffering etc...There are a lot of these that make me wanna turn the song off after 10-20 seconds, but I give Mac the benefit of the doubt sometimes, FF 20-30sec. & see if it "clicks". They lack a certain je ne sais quoi.

My favorite album is the CHOBA CCCP (Russian Sessions). Goodnight Tonight (all 3 or 4? versions is probably my favorite song, along with Maybe I'm Amazed. Check out Fool's Paradise & Go Now - McCartneys & Denny Laine.

Give Ireland Back to the Irish, another underrated gem.


If you haven't already, check out Muse (the band), every album is very good-great. If I had to pick their best one it'd be Absolution, all are a must have for your library.

I look forward to your feedback.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-16 09:02 by KevinM.

For me they peaked with Jumpin' Jack Flash - beyond that they lost the magic that Brian bought to the band. Never did like Taylor's playing and the "big four" albums mostly overrated compared to the classics from the Brian era.

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WorriedAboutYou
For me they peaked with Jumpin' Jack Flash - beyond that they lost the magic that Brian bought to the band. Never did like Taylor's playing and the "big four" albums mostly overrated compared to the classics from the Brian era.

But your name is from the Ronnie Wood era.......

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LeonidP

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Taylor1
Voodoo Lounge and Bridges to Babylon are full of excellent songs

I agree ... I'd put Bigger Bang in the category of LP w/ some excellent songs too.

With all of them, some judicious editing would have made them excellent albums.

What Treacle said ^

VOODOO easily could've been better by leaving the weak and bad songs off.

Same thing with BRIDGES with less and BANG with less.

I find things that are said about these "modern" Stones albums that are difficult to believe, like this:

We went through a whole thing: Let's make 11, 12 tracks, the normal length of an album. When we did that, there was always a great moan from somebody, You can't take that off. So it went back to 15. Well, why not? We haven't put a new record out since '89. It's five years, for Chrissake. So there's 15 on there and everybody's happy.

- Keith Richards, 1994
[timeisonourside.com]


That's a good example of rolling over and not sticking to quality. VL easily could've been better at 11 or 12 tracks. Lose off Sparks Will Fly, New Faces, Sweethearts Together, Blinded By Rainbows and Mean Disposition and put on The Storm and Jump On Top Of Me and now it's a much better album.

Or with BANG, how Virgin thought it was too long and Mick had the nerve to compare it to EXILE:

The record company felt (the album) was too long. But I said, What's the favorite Rolling Stones album of all time? - Well, Exile On Main Street. - There, you see? Exile. And how long is that? - It's over an hour. - And the problem is? - Uh, nothing.
- Mick Jagger, July 2005


It's been eight years (since Bridges to Babylon). At sixteen songs, that's just two a year.
- Keith Richards, September 2005


[timeisonourside.com]


SIXTEEN SONGS on that album. That's ridiculous. Remove Streets Of Love, ONNYA, Sweet Neo Con and Infamy and it's a much better album. That's 12 songs. I like Look What The Cat and Driving Too Fast. Under The Radar is better than some songs on BANG but it makes sense why it didn't get included. Don't Wanna Go Home is pretty bad.

So all these time gaps are no reason to put more songs on, as Keith used as a lame example - it degrades the quality of the album. Just as the 3 of the 4 new tracks on FORTY LICKS makes disc 2 sound pointless - there are all these (mostly) classic tracks and three sound out of place (Don't Stop is clearly the best of the 4 and, to my ears, fits in with the rest of the hit tracks). They could've easily released Don't Stop as an EP with the other 3 tracks and had put Heartbreaker, She's So Cold and Waiting On A Friend on instead.

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Elmo Lewis

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WorriedAboutYou
For me they peaked with Jumpin' Jack Flash - beyond that they lost the magic that Brian bought to the band. Never did like Taylor's playing and the "big four" albums mostly overrated compared to the classics from the Brian era.

But your name is from the Ronnie Wood era.......

Yeah, mine's from Brian Jones, but I like all eras of the band.

"No Anchovies, Please"

During the VOODOO LOUNGE rehearsals interview with Kurt Loder he asked Mick if he ever listened to their albums. Mick said "Tuh-two You I like very much. It's got good things on it."

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GasLightStreet
I've never been able to talk to Mick and ask him, "If you've done all this work to make these albums, how come you basically ignore them with the live shows?"

Someone has asked him exactly that. I don't recall the details, but he said that the audiences lose interest when they play new tracks. For a performing artist, especially the front man of a band, losing the audience has to be their worst nightmare. And what can the band do about it? There's no way they could restrict ticket sales to "true fans only", even if they wanted to.

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GasLightStreet
VOODOO easily could've been better by leaving the weak and bad songs off.

Same thing with BRIDGES with less and BANG with less.

I find things that are said about these "modern" Stones albums that are difficult to believe, like this:

We went through a whole thing: Let's make 11, 12 tracks, the normal length of an album. When we did that, there was always a great moan from somebody, You can't take that off. So it went back to 15. Well, why not? We haven't put a new record out since '89. It's five years, for Chrissake. So there's 15 on there and everybody's happy.

- Keith Richards, 1994
[timeisonourside.com]


That's a good example of rolling over and not sticking to quality. VL easily could've been better at 11 or 12 tracks. Lose off Sparks Will Fly, New Faces, Sweethearts Together, Blinded By Rainbows and Mean Disposition and put on The Storm and Jump On Top Of Me and now it's a much better album.

Or with BANG, how Virgin thought it was too long and Mick had the nerve to compare it to EXILE:

The record company felt (the album) was too long. But I said, What's the favorite Rolling Stones album of all time? - Well, Exile On Main Street. - There, you see? Exile. And how long is that? - It's over an hour. - And the problem is? - Uh, nothing.
- Mick Jagger, July 2005


It's been eight years (since Bridges to Babylon). At sixteen songs, that's just two a year.
- Keith Richards, September 2005


[timeisonourside.com]


SIXTEEN SONGS on that album. That's ridiculous. Remove Streets Of Love, ONNYA, Sweet Neo Con and Infamy and it's a much better album. That's 12 songs. I like Look What The Cat and Driving Too Fast. Under The Radar is better than some songs on BANG but it makes sense why it didn't get included. Don't Wanna Go Home is pretty bad.

So all these time gaps are no reason to put more songs on, as Keith used as a lame example - it degrades the quality of the album. Just as the 3 of the 4 new tracks on FORTY LICKS makes disc 2 sound pointless - there are all these (mostly) classic tracks and three sound out of place (Don't Stop is clearly the best of the 4 and, to my ears, fits in with the rest of the hit tracks). They could've easily released Don't Stop as an EP with the other 3 tracks and had put Heartbreaker, She's So Cold and Waiting On A Friend on instead.

That's why it's unfortunate that they no longer work with producers they can't overrule so easily. There are stories of Jimmy Miller literally telling the band how to play on certain tracks.

One of the most important things an artist has to learn is "kill your darlings". A mediocre song with a really nice bit of guitar work in it is still a mediocre song. But no one is around any more to say that.

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blivet

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GasLightStreet
I've never been able to talk to Mick and ask him, "If you've done all this work to make these albums, how come you basically ignore them with the live shows?"

Someone has asked him exactly that. I don't recall the details, but he said that the audiences lose interest when they play new tracks. For a performing artist, especially the front man of a band, losing the audience has to be their worst nightmare. And what can the band do about it? There's no way they could restrict ticket sales to "true fans only", even if they wanted to.

I agree. However, as I should've been more clear, why bother to record new albums then?