No mention of this milestone here today...so I guess it's up to me!

Just listen to what we're missin':

[archive.org]

I had a few Dead Head friends back in the late 80's/early 90's. RIP Jerry. I never really got into the Dead, but did experience 1 live show, 1990 NC. I like 12 of their songs, with Mexicali Blues being the best by far. There are a few more that are okay, but not good enough to DL/Top 12.


If I wanna hear a jam band go off on psychedelic/progressive rock (or any) long tangents, Yes ('69-'80, 1st album (YES) through (Drama), is my go to.


In my opinion, a lot of famous bands with long tenure tend to sound the same, song after song, album after album, ie, Grateful Dead, AC/DC, Beach Boys. Maybe due to the sheer volume of LP's they produce, they generate a higher % of "fillers". In my opinion, even the Stones (after '83 Undercover), 5 of the last 6 are very vanilla/blah. Almost like they're doing it to fulfill the record contract & ensuing tour, not to make the best music/album. It took me 45 years as a hard core Stones fan to appreciate the Dirty Work & Steel Wheels Outtakes/Demos, however, I still don't care for either of the 2 studio albums.

That being said, I hope to one day at least appreciate the last 6 studio albums + the live stuff (all after '83).

However I love everything from '61/'62 demos through Undercover. Beggars Banquet & Black and Blue are my 2 least favorite albums out of ~20 (including live) and even those have some good/great songs. BB has too much of a Folk Music sound to it, and Black & Blue was kinda odd, I felt like they were reaching a bit on some tracks. I do like the reggae stuff during the Rotterdam sessions iirc among other stuff.

EDIT: sorry for the RS tangent. The Dead show was great (even as a casual fan, at best). 19 yrs. old, hanging with some friends & apparently got dosed by the natives (even though we had our own goodies). Good times. Had I been a bigger fan of their music, I'd have toured with them at least 1x, for a few months for the experience.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-11 09:55 by KevinM.

Ok, to return to the subject of this thread, this was a major loss if you believe in the power and impact of the 60s on the history of rock n roll. The Dead was arguably the leading force in the era of psychedelic rock/the Summer of Love/the San Francisco Sound. And Jerry was arguably the linchpin of the band and of that sound. Or at least its poster child.

I saw the band with Jerry maybe three or four times and I'll never forget the first time -- it was one year almost to the day after I first saw the Stones at the Cow Palace in San Francisco and a friend of mine convinced me to go with him to see the Dead at the Orpheum Theater (the show is on the Archives list that long droog posted the link to on the first post in this thread), also in San Francisco. I hated it. It was so different from the raucous Stones that I thought 'what does anyone see in these guys?' Mellow, long boring trips to outer space in their jams, The Grateful Bore, as one friend put it.

Somehow, ever so slowly, the band grew on me over time. I began to appreciate them for what they were/are. I was in the front row at the Who/Dead Day on the Green # 1 show in Oakland in October of that year, tho I was really there to see the Who (got my pic in Rolling Stone I might add).

I guess they were the alternative to the Stones and the Who that part of me needed. I still enjoy their music and in fact, just today was listening to the show on New Year's 1978/79 on YouTube when they were the last act to play the iconic venue Winterland in San Francisco. They closed the place down.

I last saw the Dead on their 50th anniversary Fare Thee Well mini tour at Levi's Stadium, also in the Bay Area, in 2015. Enjoyed the show but Jerry's absence was the elephant in the room, quite a void. But my God, the number of fans around us smoking pot was enormous, way more than any Stones or any other show I have attended since the 80s.

RIP Jerry.


plexi



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-10 10:02 by timbernardis.

video: [www.youtube.com]
Jerry's mellow vocal is addictive. Let's Spend Diethylamide together.

[www.rollingstone.com]

I thought of this the other day as I remembered it was 25 years ago that Jerry passed away . Such a big loss for Deadheads as no one can come close to filling the void left behind from the tremendous loss of Captain Trips !

I first saw the Grateful Dead in 1973,I was 15 and my friend won 2 tix from wbcn in Boston,got floor seats in the old Boston Garden,nrps opened for them,and about two songs from the Dead, I was and still am a Dead Head,I show 150+ shows,2 New Years show,met many friends,some have passed away,but still in touch with many,when the Stones,where not touring,I could all ways see the Dead,I also taped a lot of shows,that was fun,but most of all,I miss Jerry,ahh the good old daze.

I subscribe to the Dave's Picks series, which still bangs out 4 impressive shows each year. Philly 4/20/84 just came out. '84 is considered a really inconsistent year for Garcia with his drug situation, but this show(along with 4/19 hilites) is truly one of their finest. Such a nice surprise!!

The Stones vault stuff can't touch the quality of the Grateful Dead live releases

Quote
Maindefender
I subscribe to the Dave's Picks series, which still bangs out 4 impressive shows each year. Philly 4/20/84 just came out. '84 is considered a really inconsistent year for Garcia with his drug situation, but this show(along with 4/19 hilites) is truly one of their finest. Such a nice surprise!!

The Stones vault stuff can't touch the quality of the Grateful Dead live releases

Yup , big time second that . Damn shame that our favorite band can't/won't sell audio and video complete shows in pristine condition like the fellas from GD . I always said it was a major missed opportunity ($) to rake it in $ .

I always enjoyed some of their studio recordings along with the occasional live recording, but they never really clicked with me the way they did/do for some others. I saw them in '78 or '79 at UCLA Royce hall, and really couldn't understand what all the fuss was about regarding their "epic" live shows, but I was only 16 or 17 and might have been able to relate a bit more had I been a bit older (or frying on acid). I also saw Phil Lesh and Friends with Bob Dylan back in 2001 and had a similar feeling - while Dylan and his band were sublime and on point, Phil Lesh and this band were monotonous w/endless jams that sort of meandered aimlessly. Back in h high school c. '80/'81, I had several friends/acquaintances who became massive deadheads and would follow the band around the country dropping acid every step of the way, and each time they came back from their journey, they'd seem further away. I had experimented a bit w/shrooms and acid back in the day, but evidently if you take it on a daily basis for weeks/months on end....well...don't think I would recommend it as a lifestyle.
Anyhow, I remember when Jerry died and thinking how sad it was, but he was clearly out of shape/overweight, and when you mix that with a cocaine addicition that still gripped him, evidently his heart just couldn't handle it.
RIP.......................

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

I respected JG and the GD in general quite a bit, more for what they tried to do than for what they actually did, but for me Pigpen and his organ playing is what made them what they were during their best period. More or less a local band so could go see them most any weekend during those times, before they really broke big and kind of musically went down hill a lot in my mind. I remember running into Garcia more than once out on the street and he was always cool to people. I still respect him a lot and really like a lot of his guitar playing and his vocals in smaller doses or on good nights.

jb

I saw the Dead between 300 and 350 times and to this day some of the best concerts I attended were Grateful Dead concerts. When they were on drugs were not needed to get off on the music. That said, those shows were once every 20 to 40 shows. That's where I got into taping and I wasn't interested in getting too far out there with thousands of dollars worth of gear. Towards the end, the shows were not as good as Jerry wasn't the same and the scene had gotten out of control. I preferred theaters and arenas to stadiums so the last 2 years I didn't go as often. When Jerry died it was a sad time but was not surprised at all. Hard to believe it has been 25 years. Those were fun times.

You might have been to some shows at the Ventura Fairgrounds daspy? Evidently they were banned from playing there in the late '80s because after they left town there were still hordes of homeless deadheads loitering in the city for weeks on end basically wreaking havoc. Happened just before I moved up to Ventura County from Santa Monica in '89, so can't confirm whether true or not, but that's how the story goes...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-08-11 03:09 by Hairball.

The day Garcia died I grabbed off a library shelf an obscure book whose subject was as far away from the Grateful Dead as you could get—medieval architecture I think—and someone had left inside it a ticket stub to a Grateful Dead show. Odd to run across a Dead laissez-passer on such a day in such a place.

After Garcia made the cover of TIME, an amusing letter-to-the-editor in a subsequent issue read something like: “I was impressed to read about the death of an American legend I’d never heard of.”

Quote
Hairball
I always enjoyed some of their studio recordings along with the occasional live recording, but they never really clicked with me the way they did/do for some others. I saw them in '78 or '79 at UCLA Royce hall, and really couldn't understand what all the fuss was about regarding their "epic" live shows, but I was only 16 or 17 and might have been able to relate a bit more had I been a bit older (or frying on acid). I also saw Phil Lesh and Friends with Bob Dylan back in 2001 and had a similar feeling - while Dylan and his band were sublime and on point, Phil Lesh and this band were monotonous w/endless jams that sort of meandered aimlessly. Back in h high school c. '80/'81, I had several friends/acquaintances who became massive deadheads and would follow the band around the country dropping acid every step of the way, and each time they came back from their journey, they'd seem further away. I had experimented a bit w/shrooms and acid back in the day, but evidently if you take it on a daily basis for weeks/months on end....well...don't think I would recommend it as a lifestyle.
Anyhow, I remember when Jerry died and thinking how sad it was, but he was clearly out of shape/overweight, and when you mix that with a cocaine addicition that still gripped him, evidently his heart just couldn't handle it.
RIP.......................

It was Heroin that had the grip on him and his wife Deborah Coons issued the decree of get clean or else ! So at the end of the disastrous 1995 spring/summer tour Jerry Checked into a rehab clinic in Marin and he passed away as his heart gave out from all of the stress that he carried on his shoulders of keeping that gigantic production on the road and making money . All of the vendors that feed off of GD Productions was an immense pressure on Jerry to keep the show going or else tons of people would lose there livelihood . Jerry was very sensitive to the whole machine that followed the Dead around from tour stop to tour stop on each and every city the Grateful Dead would visit and perform at . Jerry shooting buddy was Vince Welnick the keyboard player in the Dead , who was hired after Brent Mydland passed away ( R.I.P., who was my favorite in the Dead as I loved the middle period the best of 1979-1990 ) Ever notice how you never see or hear or read of Vince Welnick being involved in any of the tours like Further Fest or Phil Lesh and Friends or any of the other incarnations including the most recent with John Mayer playing lead with the Dead ( who is not bad to my surprise in that environment ) ? There is a major resentment from the 4 living/surviving members of the Grateful Dead ( Lesh, Weir, Hart, and Krutzman ) towards Vince Welnick due to the Heroin usage . So many times over the years Jerry wanted to hop off the bus , but the pressure of so many people depending on him as the means to put food on the table and in there mouths led up to all of this until his heart succumbed . I know some will be annoyed at my sentiments towards a Heroin junkie but facts are facts and are easy enough to fact check and confirm as this painful story was and is very well documented . Dave McNally Dead publicist is good place to start the search on the facts of this sad ending to a virtuoso guitarist life !

Quote
TheGreek
Ever notice how you never see or hear or read of Vince Welnick being involved in any of the tours like Further Fest or Phil Lesh and Friends or any of the other incarnations including the most recent with John Mayer playing lead with the Dead ( who is not bad to my surprise in that environment ) ?

One reason that Vince Welnick hasn't played with Phil Lesh & Friends or Dead & Company is that he died in 2006.

[en.wikipedia.org]

I think that Jerry and the Grateful Dead were an acquired taste. As a guitar player myself, I was fascinated by his playing and tried to emulate and incorporate some Jerry licks into my own playing but it never sounded quite right. He really had a unique and what I felt was an inimitable style when you listened to him. I saw the Dead (as well as Jerry solo) three times in my life when they came through my hometown of Rochester in 1977 (this show ended up on the Dick's Picks series), 1978 and 1980 and I loved all three. I miss ya Jerry. Rest in Peace.

Quote
bye bye johnny

Quote
TheGreek
Ever notice how you never see or hear or read of Vince Welnick being involved in any of the tours like Further Fest or Phil Lesh and Friends or any of the other incarnations including the most recent with John Mayer playing lead with the Dead ( who is not bad to my surprise in that environment ) ?

One reason that Vince Welnick hasn't played with Phil Lesh & Friends or Dead & Company is that he died in 2006.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Ok, but he did not play from the time of Jerry Passing in August 1995 thru 2006 as well . It seems as he has been white washed from the Grateful Dead community and archives as well . Kind of odd that the man hired to replace Brent Mydland , who was hired from the Tubes due to his work on the synth is omitted .

Mickey Mantle died that same week, which was also the week I finally decided to get serious about my girlfriend. There was this feeling of "Maybe it's finally time to put away childish things." I was thirty-six years old at the time.

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
bye bye johnny

Quote
TheGreek
Ever notice how you never see or hear or read of Vince Welnick being involved in any of the tours like Further Fest or Phil Lesh and Friends or any of the other incarnations including the most recent with John Mayer playing lead with the Dead ( who is not bad to my surprise in that environment ) ?

One reason that Vince Welnick hasn't played with Phil Lesh & Friends or Dead & Company is that he died in 2006.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Ok, but he did not play from the time of Jerry Passing in August 1995 thru 2006 as well.

Don't wish to derail this discussion any further, but will say that's not true and leave it at that.

To follow up on my posts . I remember in the fall of 2002 how the surviving 4 members ( Lesh, Weir , Hart and Krutzman ) reunited with the addition of Rob Barraco and Jeff Chimenti ( still have some cells left to burn as it's better to rust than it is to die ) Those 2 guys were okay , but it was like from the Keith Godcheux era of the 70's ( talk about plink plink , and poor Chuck gets lampooned all the time ) What a missed opportunity for the newly reformed incarnation of the Dead not to have Vince Welnick synths all spacey and adding that texture and layer from the 80's a - la Brent Mydland . I guess the guys were going for the laid back 70's vibe rather than the 80's into to the 90's . That was my favorite era of the Grateful Dead , with Jerry trading licks and solos with Mydland and then Welnick . Damn shame but what do I know ? Only one fans perspective . For me the Grateful Dead were Ringling Brothers and PT Barnum all rolled into one , what an extravaganza . I always knew there music as they received regular air play on local AOR radio . As a youngster I knew all there tunes and still was only a marginal fan . Then when friends of mine invited me to a show I got to experience the circus and it was a blast . The smell/stink of the unbathed masses not so much , but the grooving to the music was like doing the wave at a ball game where the entire stadium or arena was in unison rocking out to Jerry's guitar and accompaniment from the other 5 . Particular highlights for me in addition to Jerry and Brent Mydland were the drums of course and space which was the best ! Then on rare occasion when Phil Lesh dropped one of his bombs oh boy the fireworks were happening like the 4th of July . I sure miss the Grateful Dead !

Quote
Hairball
You might have been to some shows at the Ventura Fairgrounds daspy? Evidently they were banned from playing there in the late '80s because after they left town there were still hordes of homeless deadheads loitering in the city for weeks on end basically wreaking havoc. Happened just before I moved up to Ventura County from Santa Monica in '89, so can't confirm whether true or not, but that's how the story goes...

Yep, I went to Ventura a couple of times. 1984, 1985 and I think one other time. I remember staying at the Vagabond Inn one time with a bunch of other people.

Quote
daspyknows

Quote
Hairball
You might have been to some shows at the Ventura Fairgrounds daspy? Evidently they were banned from playing there in the late '80s because after they left town there were still hordes of homeless deadheads loitering in the city for weeks on end basically wreaking havoc. Happened just before I moved up to Ventura County from Santa Monica in '89, so can't confirm whether true or not, but that's how the story goes...

Yep, I went to Ventura a couple of times. 1984, 1985 and I think one other time. I remember staying at the Vagabond Inn one time with a bunch of other people.

A few blocks from my studio.

Sadly they closed the classic old Vagabond restaurant a couple years ago..."home of the Hobo Breakfast"...it was all about the grub!
It was supposed to be converted to some trendy contemporary joint, but hasn't happened yet...maybe covid has caused more delays....I miss the pancakes...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

I hate to rain on anyone's illusions about the GD, but the reason I heard Vince Welnick was ostracized was because he attempted to commit suicide in the tour bus before a performance. The GD were never really known to be all that "kind" despite the hype, and they never forgave him for that and hardly lifted a finger to get him help that day/night...I heard no one would even drive him to a hospital. I think they called a cab and loaded him into it and waved bye bye to their "brother". Not a pretty picture but one that was repeated more or less many times within the camp, for various reasons.

And one thing about Jerry: he never shot (injected) heroin, he preferred to "chase the dragon", a smoking technique using tin foil with the drug on top and a lighter underneath the foil, using a straw to inhale the vapors.

And folks, blaming it on Vince Welnick while totally ignoring enablers like oh say Rock Skully is really stretching it. Welnick was a sick cat who fell in with the worst possible bunch for controlling a sickness.

One lesson to be learned from the whole mess: maybe the Stones should know when to say "when" and not let their last days be miserable on the road for the sake of "fan" flakes who just want to see one more show, no matter the cost.

jb

Quote
daspyknows
I saw the Dead between 300 and 350 times and to this day some of the best concerts I attended were Grateful Dead concerts. When they were on drugs were not needed to get off on the music. That said, those shows were once every 20 to 40 shows. That's where I got into taping and I wasn't interested in getting too far out there with thousands of dollars worth of gear. Towards the end, the shows were not as good as Jerry wasn't the same and the scene had gotten out of control. I preferred theaters and arenas to stadiums so the last 2 years I didn't go as often. When Jerry died it was a sad time but was not surprised at all. Hard to believe it has been 25 years. Those were fun times.

reminds me of that old joke:

Q: "What did the Deadhead who ran out of pot say?"

A: "man...this band SUCKS!"


Another good one:

Q: "How do you know when a Deadhead has been to your house?"

A: "(s)he's still there"


Incidentally, at the Dead was the first time I ever saw nitrous (spell) balloons...I was curious, until I saw a guy take a hit, black out, fall flat on his face and knock out several teeth....he never even put his hands out to break his fall...ugly.

so, I never did nitrous...ever. So, thanks, Toothless Dude, wherever you are. Your demonstration worked a lot better than Nancy Reagan's "Just Say No" campaign, I'll tell ya that much!

RIP, Jerry....needle and the damage done. sad.

Quote
bye bye johnny

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
bye bye johnny

Quote
TheGreek
Ever notice how you never see or hear or read of Vince Welnick being involved in any of the tours like Further Fest or Phil Lesh and Friends or any of the other incarnations including the most recent with John Mayer playing lead with the Dead ( who is not bad to my surprise in that environment ) ?

One reason that Vince Welnick hasn't played with Phil Lesh & Friends or Dead & Company is that he died in 2006.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Ok, but he did not play from the time of Jerry Passing in August 1995 thru 2006 as well.

Don't wish to derail this discussion any further, but will say that's not true and leave it at that.

I stand corrected as I just checked and he did perform at Phil Lesh and friends 1998 . He was disappointed at not being invited to join the "surviving " members of the Dead in 2002 . Thanks for the correction . Such a sad story about Mr. Welnick .

Quote
jbwelda
I hate to rain on anyone's illusions about the GD, but the reason I heard Vince Welnick was ostracized was because he attempted to commit suicide in the tour bus before a performance. The GD were never really known to be all that "kind" despite the hype, and they never forgave him for that and hardly lifted a finger to get him help that day/night...I heard no one would even drive him to a hospital. I think they called a cab and loaded him into it and waved bye bye to their "brother". Not a pretty picture but one that was repeated more or less many times within the camp, for various reasons.

And one thing about Jerry: he never shot (injected) heroin, he preferred to "chase the dragon", a smoking technique using tin foil with the drug on top and a lighter underneath the foil, using a straw to inhale the vapors.

And folks, blaming it on Vince Welnick while totally ignoring enablers like oh say Rock Skully is really stretching it. Welnick was a sick cat who fell in with the worst possible bunch for controlling a sickness.

One lesson to be learned from the whole mess: maybe the Stones should know when to say "when" and not let their last days be miserable on the road for the sake of "fan" flakes who just want to see one more show, no matter the cost.

jb

That's good information . I always wondered how Jerry kept all that weight on his body and I think that explains it and makes a lot of sense as well . Thanks for the information .

He was great! I was never a dead head, not even close, but still, I could never make it through a party back then without hearing Casey Jones blasting over the speakers! And then there's Uncle John's Band, Truckin', Shakedown St. etc., and my absolute favorite: Touch of Grey!

I love Jerry's pedal steel playing on Teach Your Children. But when he got together with those other guys, it was pure unmagic.

I forgot how long it's been until earlier this week, I'm vacationing on the beach and a girl working there had a Dead hat on, I mentioned I saw them a couple weeks before he died, she reminded it was 25 years to the day!

They (or primarily Garcia) weren't in top form on that tour but seeing him sing Black Muddy River as the encore was a spectacular last glimpse of the man for me.