Quote
24FPS

I tried to compare SACD/DSD Stones cuts against the SHM-CDs, but it doesn't work.

A/B comparison works with two Players - via HDMI (for SACD) and SPDIF (for CD) connected to the Amplifier - then simply switch between the sources.

Works also on the Computer - two instances of a HiRes-Player (maybe one of them in a VM), one output via USB (for SACD), the other output via SPDIF (for CD) - then also switch the sources on the Amplifier.

Speaking of SHM CDs, I was able to get Steely Dan's Aja at a decent price. Can't wait to hear it. I've been scouring ebay for more Stones SHM CDs. I see Ya Yas pop up in my price range from time to time. I just don't know. I was very disappointed in ABKCO's 2002 SACD version of the live classic. It was flat, and by that I mean being on SACD didn't add anything to it. This was unusual in that I tended to like most of the ABKCO CDs of the pre-71 material.

Has anyone else heard the SHM CD Japan version of Ya Yas? Is it an improvement?

Quote
24FPS
Speaking of SHM CDs, I was able to get Steely Dan's Aja at a decent price. Can't wait to hear it. I've been scouring ebay for more Stones SHM CDs. I see Ya Yas pop up in my price range from time to time. I just don't know. I was very disappointed in ABKCO's 2002 SACD version of the live classic. It was flat, and by that I mean being on SACD didn't add anything to it. This was unusual in that I tended to like most of the ABKCO CDs of the pre-71 material.

Has anyone else heard the SHM CD Japan version of Ya Yas? Is it an improvement?

All ABKCO era CDs that were issued between 2002 and 2016 are based on 2002 DSD remaster. No matter country of origin or material used (regular or SHM).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-07 11:34 by ironbelly.

Buy 'em all ... The ones ya
dont like .... Give To The Poor ......



ROCKMAN

Probably already mentioned but "From The Vault" LA Forum and Hampton Coliseum come out on 8/21

Quote
georgelicks
The original version available of Fingerprint File on most releases was mastered at a faster speed than the original recording, 6:33 vs 7:01. The version of the song mastered at the correct slower speed was released on the Japanese SHM-SACD.

It's on Youtube too:
[www.youtube.com]

It's sound right but odd, I probably should listen ti it a dozen times to get used to it

__________________________

Quote
Rockman
Buy 'em all ... The ones ya
dont like .... Give To The Poor ......

Rockman,
Your philanthropy matters.

Quote
Rockman
Buy 'em all ... The ones ya
dont like .... Give To The Poor ......

But then I'd be poor. These Blu Ray and SHM CDs are quite dear. I guess they're no more expensive than those fools paying $30 for vinyl.

Quote
georgelicks
The original version available of Fingerprint File on most releases was mastered at a faster speed than the original recording, 6:33 vs 7:01. The version of the song mastered at the correct slower speed was released on the Japanese SHM-SACD.

It's on Youtube too:
[www.youtube.com]

Funny enough on half speed mastered IORR vinyl from box set 1971-2016 they speed up FF again. The recent needledrop by PBTHAL gives timing for 9 tracks with accuracy +-1 sec with respect to flat transfer Japanese SHM-CD. FF is 6:43 but not 7:01.

On the LA Friday August SHM-CD release, what can we truly expect between the two mixes?? (New mix versus Bob Clearmountain)

Quote
Rockman
Buy 'em all ... The ones ya
dont like .... Give To The Poor ......

Classic Rockman. Gotta love Rockman!


plexi

Ok, Ironbelly and Irix. What is the relationship of these 3 things:

DSD
SACD
SHM

As far as brickwalling on CD goes, someone on the GHS thread said that the CBS issues of the 80s were not brick walled.


plexi

Ok, Ironbelly and Irix. What is the relationship of these 3 things:

DSD
SACD
SHM

As far as brickwalling on CD goes, someone on the GHS thread said that the Columbia/CBS/Sony issues of the 80s were not brick walled.


plexi

Quote
georgelicks
The original version available of Fingerprint File on most releases was mastered at a faster speed than the original recording, 6:33 vs 7:01. The version of the song mastered at the correct slower speed was released on the Japanese SHM-SACD.

It's on Youtube too:
[www.youtube.com]

Not anymore, can anyone ping me a link please. I love this song

Quote
timbernardis
Ok, Ironbelly and Irix. What is the relationship of these 3 things:

DSD
SACD
SHM

As far as brickwalling on CD goes, someone on the GHS thread said that the Columbia/CBS/Sony issues of the 80s were not brick walled.


plexi

SACD - Super Audio CD [en.wikipedia.org]
DSD - Direct Stream Digital. A format (encoding) that is used to store audio information on SACD. [en.wikipedia.org]
Data on SACD discs is written using DSD format - 1-bit / 2.8224 MHz sampling rate.

Data on regular CD-DA (compact disc digital audio) is written using so called 'red book format', 16 bit / 44.1 kHz sampling rate. Red Book format is here [en.wikipedia.org]

SHM - Super High Material. Special type of polycarbonate that has better mechanical and optical properties comparing to regular polycarbonate that is generally used for CD manufacturing. [www.cdjapan.co.jp]

Beggars Banquet as an example
UIGY-7015 - SACD-hybrid. Dual layer disc that contains digital material in SACD/DSD and CD-DA/red book formats. Both layers are made from regular polycarbonate and stacked together. Both contain digital material mastered by Bob Ludwig. SACD layer is coded using DSD (high definition 1 bit / 2.82 MHz). Regular layer is 'red book' (downsampled from DSD to 16 bit /44.1 kHZ). Can be played both on SACD and regular CD players.
UICY-93027 - CD, 'red book' only paper sleeve edition. Contains the same 2002 Bob Ludwig remaster. Regular polycarbonate. Compatible with regular CD player.
UICY-90746 - SHM-CD, 'red book' 2002 only. But pressed using SHM material. Compatible with regular CD player.
UICY-91372 - SHM-CD. Again, 'red book' 2002 only. But pressed using SHM material. Compatible with regular CD player.
UICY-20001 - SHM-CD. Re-issue of the previous one. Again using SHM. Compatible with regular CD player.
UIGY 9038 - SHM-SACD. SACD single layer. Contains 2002 SACD/DSD digital content only but is pressed using SHM material. Not compatible with regular CD player, SACD only.

If you will use EAC (Exact Audio Copy) in secure mode and rip UICY-93027, UICY-90746, UICY-91372, UICY-20001 and red book layer from UIGY-7015 you will get exactly the same digital material - 2002 remaster by Bob Ludwig in CD-DA red book format.

To extract SACD/DSD data you will need something different (it is not easy). But anyway digital content of SACD layer from UIGY-7015 and UIGY 9038 will be the same - 2002 remaster by Bob Ludwig in DSD format.



Edited 12 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-23 20:56 by ironbelly.

Quote
timbernardis

What is the relationship of these 3 things: DSD SACD SHM

An SHM-SACD combines all 3 technologies: DSD-Encoding, SACD-Disc, SHM-Material. To rip a SACD you need a Sony PlayStation 3 with an early Firmware-version (+ special Software).



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-23 16:30 by Irix.

Are SHM discs made only in Japan?

In any event, I think I'll try a couple of used Stones SHM discs and see how they compare to the 2002 Abkco hybrids. I do have a Sony blu ray player that can also play SACDs, not sure about SHM.


Plexi

Quote
timbernardis

Are SHM discs made only in Japan?

Looks like, I've never seen (yet) that they were made outside of Japan. Seems to be an exclusive Technology by JVC/Kenwood.

SHM-Discs can be played on every modern CD-Player, but sometimes the reflection of the Platinum-coating can be too weak for older Players from the 1980s. Same effect as with the modern "bright looking" CD-Recordable.

Easy to get lost in all of this for us non-audiophiles..

I bought the cd-blu ray set for GHS but am also going to get a vinyl copy with the 7" Scarlet. In another discussion someone said vinyl was "1000 times better" than cd. Hyperbole, sure.. but is it really even better at all? I appreciate the ritual of vinyl and the sound of the needle, but more in a nostalgic way. Perhaps I've never had the right equipment to really appreciate the sound. This article states that cd's are the "best sounding physical audio format that most people can get their hands on". If that's the best that "most" can get their hands on.. what's better? Too confusing for these old ears..


Yes, You Should Still Be Buying CDs, Here’s Why
Yes, CDs sound better than vinyl.

It’s 2020 and streaming makes up about 85 percent of how all music is consumed. Vinyl is in a resurgence, of course, with records outselling CDs for the first time in almost three decades. CDs, on the other hand, have been on the decline. Their sales have dropped by 95 percent since 2000 (the peak days of CDs), according to a new report, and are currently at their lowest level since 1986. To say CDs have lost their cool factor is a little bit of understatement.

Yet, there’s still good reason to buy them!
One of the great myths in the audio world is that vinyl sounds better than CDs. It’s just not true. Sure, you might prefer the warm analog sound, specifically its crackling and other imperfections, as well as the visceral experience of actually dropping the needle on a spinning record, but CDs are simply the best sounding physical audio format that most people can get their hands on. Compared to vinyl, CDs are able to produce a wider dynamic range and more bass. Plus they’re not going to skip (unless scratched).
[www.gearpatrol.com]

Quote
MisterDDDD

"but CDs are simply the best sounding physical audio format that most people can get their hands on. Compared to vinyl" ... [www.gearpatrol.com]

He means for sure Super Audio CD (SACD) or maybe BluRay-Audio.

What's even better than that? HiRes-Download 352kHz/24bit or DSD512 (22.57MHz/1bit) - but such files are currently still very very rare ....

Quote
Irix

Quote
MisterDDDD

"but CDs are simply the best sounding physical audio format that most people can get their hands on. Compared to vinyl" ... [www.gearpatrol.com]

He means for sure Super Audio CD (SACD) or maybe BluRay-Audio.

What's even better than that? HiRes-Download 352kHz/24bit or DSD512 (22.57MHz/1bit) - but such files are currently still very very rare ....

Thanks!

Quote
floodonthepage
I bought SHM-CD "It's Only Rock n Roll" for the slower 'Fingerprint File'. I still can't get used to it though!

Would you please be so kind as to give me
the catalog number? - I'm looking for a
copy of IORR with the slow version
of Fingerprint File...

The catalog numbers of any other versions of IORR
that include the slow Fingerprint File are also
highly welcome!

Thanks
CrazyMama

Quote
Norbert

Quote
floodonthepage
I bought SHM-CD "It's Only Rock n Roll" for the slower 'Fingerprint File'. I still can't get used to it though!

Would you please be so kind as to give me
the catalog number? - I'm looking for a
copy of IORR with the slow version
of Fingerprint File...

The catalog numbers of any other versions of IORR
that include the slow Fingerprint File are also
highly welcome!

Thanks
CrazyMama

In print UICY-79243 [www.cdjapan.co.jp]
Out of print but but available on the second hand market and from 3rd party dealers: UICY-40031 (SHM-CD platinum), UICY-76017 (SHM-CD silver), UIGY-9069 (SHM-SACD single layer).

Quote
timbernardis
Are SHM discs made only in Japan?

In any event, I think I'll try a couple of used Stones SHM discs and see how they compare to the 2002 Abkco hybrids. I do have a Sony blu ray player that can also play SACDs, not sure about SHM.


Plexi

OK, I also bought the Sony Blu Ray quite awhile ago, thanks to Toru's recommendation, to play my 2002 hybrids. They sound fab. BUT...But how do I know whether the player is accessing the SACD layer, and not the regular CD layer?

The Sony 'can' play SACD. But when faced with a choice, which layer does it default to playing? Appreciate if anyone has faced this or may have an answer and thank you.

Quote
ironbelly

Quote
Norbert

Quote
floodonthepage
I bought SHM-CD "It's Only Rock n Roll" for the slower 'Fingerprint File'. I still can't get used to it though!

Would you please be so kind as to give me
the catalog number? - I'm looking for a
copy of IORR with the slow version
of Fingerprint File...

The catalog numbers of any other versions of IORR
that include the slow Fingerprint File are also
highly welcome!

Thanks
CrazyMama

In print UICY-79243 [www.cdjapan.co.jp]
Out of print but but available on the second hand market and from 3rd party dealers: UICY-40031 (SHM-CD platinum), UICY-76017 (SHM-CD silver), UIGY-9069 (SHM-SACD single layer).

Thank you so much!

What about Hi-Res CD MQA X UHQCD?????

Quote
donvis
What about Hi-Res CD MQA X UHQCD?????

Hi-Res UHQCD - MQA [UICY-40166] also contain that flat transfer with slow Fingerprint File.
That is kind of 'exotic' format

Quote
Norbert

Quote
ironbelly

Quote
Norbert

Quote
floodonthepage
I bought SHM-CD "It's Only Rock n Roll" for the slower 'Fingerprint File'. I still can't get used to it though!

Would you please be so kind as to give me
the catalog number? - I'm looking for a
copy of IORR with the slow version
of Fingerprint File...

The catalog numbers of any other versions of IORR
that include the slow Fingerprint File are also
highly welcome!

Thanks
CrazyMama

In print UICY-79243 [www.cdjapan.co.jp]
Out of print but but available on the second hand market and from 3rd party dealers: UICY-40031 (SHM-CD platinum), UICY-76017 (SHM-CD silver), UIGY-9069 (SHM-SACD single layer).

Thank you so much!

Sorry for delay, Norbert. I'm just now seeing this. I have the UICY-40031 SHM-CD "platinum". Quite a lovely edition if you can find it (?) I didn't realize it was out of print, as per Ironbelly.

ROCKMAN

Quote
floodonthepage

Sorry for delay, Norbert. I'm just now seeing this. I have the UICY-40031 SHM-CD "platinum". Quite a lovely edition if you can find it (?) I didn't realize it was out of print, as per Ironbelly.

One still can find UICY-40031 online at Japanese side of amazon. Also on other amazon sites from 3rd party dealers. But it is out of print for sure.
However, you should balance your desire for high quality and price.

That UICY-40031 edition is a fancy one in terms of packaging and due to platinum reflection layer (and it is out of print). Thus the price is higher, like 10€ more. Also one should keep in mind that platinum SHM discs are not compatible with old CD players (due to different reflection rate of platinum and aluminum). I.e. if your player can not play CD-Rs it will not play platinum SHM, it will not recognize it.

The other thing that digital material presented on UICY-40031, UICY-76017 and UICY-79243 is downsampled from DSD/SACD to regular CD-DA/redbook standard. Actually, all three are pressed from the stamplers prepared from the very same glass master UICY-40031 H1T.

Surely, for real hi-def resolution one should head for out of print and pricey UIGY-9069 (SHM-SACD single layer) that is not compatible with regular CD players but only with those that can read SACD or for the other fancy technology UHQCD - MQA [UICY-40166]. This one can be played on regular CD player but you will get regular CD-DA/redbook quality if your player does not recognize/decode UHQCD - MQA.

Thus, it terms of sound quality quality per penny (for physical products) the current in-print UICY-79243 is the best choice.

In any case this album is not a sonic candy and Japanese flat transfer did not add much (apart of extended TWFNO and speed corrected FF). From my point of view (and my ears are not very good) the sound is somewhere between old CBS disc and 1994 Virgin CD. It has a bit more clarity and bass and is not that muffed as CBS but not that punchy (and with digital edge) as Virgin. It is good, naturally sounding CD but one should not expect audiophile sonic pleasure and day-and-night differences comparing to old CBS and Virgin CDs. This is valid for all series of that Japanese flat transfers. They are good, the packaging is fantastic. But the improvement in sound is not dramatic for regular CD-DA/redbook. Well, if you'll listen to SACD on 10k€ audiophile equipment you'll probably hear the differences .