WHO plays the guitar solo? (Both versions but clearer on 1).

Contenders are Joe Moretti, Big Jim Sullivan, John McLaughlin. That's not Page. ALO - are *individual track* musicians listed anywhere? As opposed to the pool of players on the sessions.

My money's on Sullivan or McLaughlin.

VT

Why is this not Page?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-21 15:38 by TheflyingDutchman.

It doesn’t sound like Jimmy Page soloing to my ears; at least going by the known examples of his work during this period. He may be on rhythm, of course. I’ve always suspected the solo is the work of Big Jim Sullivan.

Heart of Stone, Sunshine Superman, Brenda Lee’s rendition of What I’d Say, etc. These known Page solos are all rather similar and distinct in their sound and style. Lulu’s take on the Stones’ Surprise, Surprise and My Baby Left Me by Dave Berry are all stellar examples of Jimmy’s style and approach during this time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-21 15:51 by Big Al.

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Big Al
It doesn’t sound like Jimmy Page soloing to my ears; at least going by the known examples of his work during this period. He may be on rhythm, of course. I’ve always suspected the solo is the work of Big Jim Sullivan.

That's possible. You can hear influences of the sitar in the guitar solo already.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-21 15:54 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman

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Big Al
It doesn’t sound like Jimmy Page soloing to my ears; at least going by the known examples of his work during this period. He may be on rhythm, of course. I’ve always suspected the solo is the work of Big Jim Sullivan.

That's possible. You can hear influences of the sitar in the guitar solo already.

Good point regarding the sitar. You certainly can. Sullivan was a fantastic musician.

[iorr.org]

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DandelionPowderman
[iorr.org]

According to McLaughlin himself he only worked as a studio musician for a very short time, starting in 1965. He met Jagger once though, which was a very nice encounter. He never worked for the Stones though. So he's not on "We're Wasting Time", nor on "Metamorphosis".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-21 19:54 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman
[iorr.org]

According to McLaughlin himself he only worked as a studio musician for a very short time, starting in 1965. He met Jagger once though, which was a very nice encounter. He never worked for the Stones though. So he's not on "We're Wasting Time", nor on "Metamorphosis".

He's credited, though.

He probably never knew that his contribution would end up on this compilation, nor that the compilation would be a Stones-album.

Cos Page's style is nothing remotely like that.

>McLaughlin himself ... never worked for the Stones though. So he's not on "We're Wasting Time"...

McLaughlin (and all) would've doing an Andrew Oldham Orchestra session, not a Stones session.

Big Jim seems the most likely soloist here.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-21 20:56 by AmpegVT22.

Many of the sessions that lead to songs winding up on Metamorphosis weren't Stones sessions.

It’s true that McLaughlin supported himself through session-work briefly, though he was never a part of that core London session scene. The same goes for the keyboardist, Jon Lord, who was reportedly present at the Kinks’ session for You Really Got Me. I still think it’s Big Jim Sullivan on We’re Wasting Time. It doesn’t sound like Page and I’ve never read of involvement by someone like Vik Flick. I can’t think who else it could be. It was a tight little group of musicians. Not many involved.

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman
[iorr.org]

According to McLaughlin himself he only worked as a studio musician for a very short time, starting in 1965. He met Jagger once though, which was a very nice encounter. He never worked for the Stones though. So he's not on "We're Wasting Time", nor on "Metamorphosis".

He's credited, though.

He probably never knew that his contribution would end up on this compilation, nor that the compilation would be a Stones-album.

As Mclaughlin stated himself, he ran into a club where the Rolling Stones were playing, but he immediately walked out by saying "What the f*ck is going on here?" I'm not taking musical sides, to me the Stones sounded great in the early 6-tees already.

The fact that McLaughlin is credited is coming from Nico Zentgraf(?), which is not always reliable source -he doesn't pretend to - but then it could still be that McLaughlin got involved in a copy and paste job. I never recognised his playing on "Metamorphosis" though.

Even Colin Harper, the author of "Bathed in Lightning" couldn't help me out.

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman
[iorr.org]

According to McLaughlin himself he only worked as a studio musician for a very short time, starting in 1965. He met Jagger once though, which was a very nice encounter. He never worked for the Stones though. So he's not on "We're Wasting Time", nor on "Metamorphosis".

He's credited, though.

He probably never knew that his contribution would end up on this compilation, nor that the compilation would be a Stones-album.

As Mclaughlin stated himself, he ran into a club where the Rolling Stones were playing, but he immediately walked out by saying "What the f*ck is going on here?" I'm not taking musical sides, to me the Stones sounded great in the early 6-tees already.

The fact that McLaughlin is credited is coming from Nico Zentgraf(?), which is not always reliable source -he doesn't pretend to - but then it could still be that McLaughlin got involved in a copy and paste job. I never recognised his playing on "Metamorphosis" though.

Even Colin Harper, the author of "Bathed in Lightning" couldn't help me out.

Isn't he credited on the album? I believe he is.

Once again, what he took part in was not a Stones session. Yet, it ended up on Metamorphosis.

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DandelionPowderman

Once again, what he took part in was not a Stones session. Yet, it ended up on Metamorphosis.

So they didn't tell him who he was playing for? The fact that he's credited doesn't necessarily mean that he's on it. It happened to Mick Taylor. It remains a bit of a mystery to me what Metmorphosis was all about. Why all the session players, the Stones could handle their own music?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-22 01:22 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

Once again, what he took part in was not a Stones session. Yet, it ended up on Metamorphosis.

So they didn't tell him who he was playing for? The fact that he's credited doesn't necessarily mean that he's on it. It remains a bit of a mystery to me what Metmorphosis was all about. Why all the session players, the Stones could handle their own music?

It's my understanding that most of the songs on Metamorphosis were from when Mick and Keith began their songwriting together and Andrew was promoting those songs to other artists to record. Apart from Mick singing, most had studio musicians playing on them.

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DGA35

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

Once again, what he took part in was not a Stones session. Yet, it ended up on Metamorphosis.

So they didn't tell him who he was playing for? The fact that he's credited doesn't necessarily mean that he's on it. It happened to Mick Taylor. It remains a bit of a mystery to me what Metmorphosis was all about. Why all the session players, the Stones could handle their own music?

It's my understanding that most of the songs on Metamorphosis were from when Mick and Keith began their songwriting together and Andrew was promoting those songs to other artists to record. Apart from Mick singing, most had studio musicians playing on them.

Interesting, I wonder what the rest of the Stones thought about it .

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TheflyingDutchman

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DGA35

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

Once again, what he took part in was not a Stones session. Yet, it ended up on Metamorphosis.

So they didn't tell him who he was playing for? The fact that he's credited doesn't necessarily mean that he's on it. It happened to Mick Taylor. It remains a bit of a mystery to me what Metmorphosis was all about. Why all the session players, the Stones could handle their own music?

It's my understanding that most of the songs on Metamorphosis were from when Mick and Keith began their songwriting together and Andrew was promoting those songs to other artists to record. Apart from Mick singing, most had studio musicians playing on them.

Interesting, I wonder what the rest of the Stones thought about it .

Bill is quoted as saying that they did play on a couple of the songs but the reality of it is that they were recording and touring so much that it probably didn't matter that much. Out of Time on Metamorphosis is the Chris Farlowe version but with Mick's vocals. Stones songs like Play With Fire and As Tears Go By don't have Brian/Bill or Charlie on them either.

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DGA35

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

Once again, what he took part in was not a Stones session. Yet, it ended up on Metamorphosis.

So they didn't tell him who he was playing for? The fact that he's credited doesn't necessarily mean that he's on it. It remains a bit of a mystery to me what Metmorphosis was all about. Why all the session players, the Stones could handle their own music?

It's my understanding that most of the songs on Metamorphosis were from when Mick and Keith began their songwriting together and Andrew was promoting those songs to other artists to record. Apart from Mick singing, most had studio musicians playing on them.

That’s exactly it. Oldham was probably looking at how successful Lennon and McCartney were as songwriters for hire: Billy J. Kramer, Peter and Gordon, etc.

The credits on Metamorphosis are bogus. Oldham listed a bunch of known people on there to sell records, but they were session musicians. I posted articles about this a couple months ago.

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TheflyingDutchman

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DGA35

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

Once again, what he took part in was not a Stones session. Yet, it ended up on Metamorphosis.

So they didn't tell him who he was playing for? The fact that he's credited doesn't necessarily mean that he's on it. It happened to Mick Taylor. It remains a bit of a mystery to me what Metmorphosis was all about. Why all the session players, the Stones could handle their own music?

It's my understanding that most of the songs on Metamorphosis were from when Mick and Keith began their songwriting together and Andrew was promoting those songs to other artists to record. Apart from Mick singing, most had studio musicians playing on them.

Interesting, I wonder what the rest of the Stones thought about it .

They never approved the release!

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DGA35

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

Once again, what he took part in was not a Stones session. Yet, it ended up on Metamorphosis.

So they didn't tell him who he was playing for? The fact that he's credited doesn't necessarily mean that he's on it. It happened to Mick Taylor. It remains a bit of a mystery to me what Metmorphosis was all about. Why all the session players, the Stones could handle their own music?

It's my understanding that most of the songs on Metamorphosis were from when Mick and Keith began their songwriting together and Andrew was promoting those songs to other artists to record. Apart from Mick singing, most had studio musicians playing on them.

Interesting, I wonder what the rest of the Stones thought about it .

They never approved the release!

Rightfully so, with the exception of maybe a few parts.

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

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TheflyingDutchman

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DGA35

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TheflyingDutchman

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DandelionPowderman

Once again, what he took part in was not a Stones session. Yet, it ended up on Metamorphosis.

So they didn't tell him who he was playing for? The fact that he's credited doesn't necessarily mean that he's on it. It happened to Mick Taylor. It remains a bit of a mystery to me what Metmorphosis was all about. Why all the session players, the Stones could handle their own music?

It's my understanding that most of the songs on Metamorphosis were from when Mick and Keith began their songwriting together and Andrew was promoting those songs to other artists to record. Apart from Mick singing, most had studio musicians playing on them.

Interesting, I wonder what the rest of the Stones thought about it .

They never approved the release!

Rightfully so, with the exception of maybe a few parts.

Rightfully so, because it was Klein's compilation and half of it weren't even the Stones performing.

The Stones released Made In The Shade. Klein released Metamorphosis.

Of course we are ! Tick Tock

Regarding Heart of Stone: Considering that the ALO Orchestra version was recorded before the Stones’ release, does anyone else suspect that Keith copied Page’s solo; or at least used it for the basis of his own? I enjoy both efforts, though I prefer Page’s grittier flourishes. I suspect he may have been using his black Les Paul; the one used at the Zeppelin Royal Albert Hall gig in 1970.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-22 15:17 by Big Al.

The youtube file is blocked in Holland.

Title of this thread reminds me of the movie from Pink Floyd where all the school kids are marching single file into the meat grinder .

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TravelinMan
The credits on Metamorphosis are bogus.

Ah, thank you.

Yes of course. Klein giving giving his nephew something to do. "Make up some @#$%& names Ronnie."


Back in '65, Andrew Oldham wanted a Publishing Empire, wanted to emulate Phil Spector. Hence what became Immediate. Wanted 'Andrew Loog Oldham' albums out, quite separate from Stones product. More income. More copyrights. Also to provide backing tracks for other artists to cover songs the Stones didn't want.

And to give Mick & Keith a free hand in the studio, as Producer/Engineers.

Both strategies paid off.