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TheflyingDutchman

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LieB
So now the thread is 100% about Mick Taylor

Tells me something about the musical heart of several hardcore Stones Fans.

I’m pretty sure the Rory stuff was exhausted a few days ago and the convo took a turn to why he had the opportunity to try out in the first place.

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Gazza
Oh I've no doubt that he auditioned (or at least played with them in Rotterdam). I've just never read from any credible source that he was on the shortlist which seems to have been early on limited to three people - Wood, Perkins and Mandel.

I don't think its a coincidence that when they reconvened in Munich five weeks later to continue working on 'Black and Blue' that those three - and no other guitarists - joined them during the 3 weeks that the sessions lasted.

To me the Rotterdam rehearsals was in the end just Jagger being utterly bored with Keith away scoring heroin in Rotterdam that he and Ian Stewart just started calling any decent guitarist to just kill time. Wood, Perkins and Mandel were all favorites of Keith, and all the other ones were certainly not.

Mathijs

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Mathijs
Wood, Perkins and Mandel were all favorites of Keith, and all the other ones were certainly not.

Mathijs

As simple as that. Jagger wasn't very fond of Perkins and Mandel either on the long term, as he asked Keith to try someone else. Jagger's opinions about Beck for the Stones I don't know. Surely he liked to work with Beck extensively, as history has proven.

Jagger liked Mandel.

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TravelinMan
Jagger liked Mandel.

I wrote on the long term.
The guy with whom Keith worked with at home, Perkins then? Jagger wanted Keith to try another one.

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TheflyingDutchman

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TravelinMan
Jagger liked Mandel.

I wrote on the long term.
The guy with whom Keith worked with at home, Perkins then? Jagger wanted Keith to try another one.

Initially, the job was to tour with them and play on the record. I don’t think they were thinking long term based on the fact Wood wasn’t considered a full member for some time.

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TravelinMan

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retired_dog

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Taylor1
Ithink that after the Jack Bruce/CarlaBley band dissolved in July 1975,if the Stones had asked him to rejoin in 1975,he would have done so.I also think that anytime from 1976 to 20114 had he been asked to rejoin ,he would have.Waddy Wachtell played on 10 of 13 tracks on Bridges to Babylon,so if they had asked him to fill that role alongside Ron and Keith,I doubt he would have turned them down.He obviously would have been pleased to play on all the songs on the 50 and Counting Tour rather than the 2or 3pernight he was given.

I can only agree here.

Furthermore, I believe that whoever whispered in Taylor's ears that he could stand on his own feet like Clapton as a role model did a serious and almost tragic mistake.

I’m pretty sure he made the decision by himself and ignored the people trying to talk him out of it. I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to believe. He was bored of the same shit, tired of the insanity. He wanted out and it probably saved his life.

It's hard to believe because it does not really add up. It's not exactly "the Stones", it was more or less Keith only who was a serious addict back then. If you want to escape Keith's supposedly "bad influence", you don't join forces with other serious addicts like Jack Bruce. Or better quit the music business at all because substances are everywhere, no matter where you look at. It's always been like that.

I have a feeling that this "left the Stones to save my life" is a myth consciously or maybe even unconsciously created by Taylor to find an excuse for a desastrous career move first for himself that was only later transported to the public when he himself firmly believed in this "justification".

As yearlong tours did not happen before 1989, there was enough spare time to follow individual, musically probably more challenging solo projects and cooperations while still staying in the band.

I think he just overestimated his own market value, artistic vision and probably also stamina to successfuly survive as a solo artist while at the same time, probably understandingly, misinterpreting the current situation of the band, believing that they were on their way down anyways. Add to that a growing unhappiness that your contributions to the band were not appropriately recognized, that despite your considerable input it was still largely a Mick and Keith show. He possibly felt sidelined in a similar way like Brian, who knows...

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TheflyingDutchman

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Mathijs
Wood, Perkins and Mandel were all favorites of Keith, and all the other ones were certainly not.

Mathijs

As simple as that. Jagger wasn't very fond of Perkins and Mandel either on the long term, as he asked Keith to try someone else. Jagger's opinions about Beck for the Stones I don't know. Surely he liked to work with Beck extensively, as history has proven.

I read an interview a long time ago where Charlie said he really liked playing with Jeff Beck. I believe Jeff just left unannounced, as he do.

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24FPS

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The Joker

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slane82
Will probably be taken down soon -- enjoy it while you can:

[www.youtube.com]

Interesting VIP area...
[youtu.be]
[youtu.be]




Same VIP area in 1969. Note the common mortal breathing next to Keith has to wear a suit and a tie. Some hippies were so snob. Hilarious.

Is that Sam Cutler next to Keith?

Maybe Jimmy Miller? Definitely not Sam.

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crholmstrom

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TheflyingDutchman

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Mathijs
Wood, Perkins and Mandel were all favorites of Keith, and all the other ones were certainly not.

Mathijs

As simple as that. Jagger wasn't very fond of Perkins and Mandel either on the long term, as he asked Keith to try someone else. Jagger's opinions about Beck for the Stones I don't know. Surely he liked to work with Beck extensively, as history has proven.

I read an interview a long time ago where Charlie said he really liked playing with Jeff Beck. I believe Jeff just left unannounced, as he do.

Jeff left after 2 days of playing. "Too slow". In a YouTube interview with Alice Cooper or the radio he stated that he was offered the job. Probably by Jagger and the rest of the band. Keith I don't know. What does that mean? Had Jeff stayed, Keith would have left. Jeff and Keith would never have gotten along within the Stones. No Keith, no Stones.The rest is history.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-23 15:14 by TheflyingDutchman.

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retired_dog

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TravelinMan

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retired_dog

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Taylor1
Ithink that after the Jack Bruce/CarlaBley band dissolved in July 1975,if the Stones had asked him to rejoin in 1975,he would have done so.I also think that anytime from 1976 to 20114 had he been asked to rejoin ,he would have.Waddy Wachtell played on 10 of 13 tracks on Bridges to Babylon,so if they had asked him to fill that role alongside Ron and Keith,I doubt he would have turned them down.He obviously would have been pleased to play on all the songs on the 50 and Counting Tour rather than the 2or 3pernight he was given.

I can only agree here.

Furthermore, I believe that whoever whispered in Taylor's ears that he could stand on his own feet like Clapton as a role model did a serious and almost tragic mistake.

I’m pretty sure he made the decision by himself and ignored the people trying to talk him out of it. I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to believe. He was bored of the same shit, tired of the insanity. He wanted out and it probably saved his life.

It's hard to believe because it does not really add up. It's not exactly "the Stones", it was more or less Keith only who was a serious addict back then. If you want to escape Keith's supposedly "bad influence", you don't join forces with other serious addicts like Jack Bruce. Or better quit the music business at all because substances are everywhere, no matter where you look at. It's always been like that.

I have a feeling that this "left the Stones to save my life" is a myth consciously or maybe even unconsciously created by Taylor to find an excuse for a desastrous career move first for himself that was only later transported to the public when he himself firmly believed in this "justification".

As yearlong tours did not happen before 1989, there was enough spare time to follow individual, musically probably more challenging solo projects and cooperations while still staying in the band.

I think he just overestimated his own market value, artistic vision and probably also stamina to successfuly survive as a solo artist while at the same time, probably understandingly, misinterpreting the current situation of the band, believing that they were on their way down anyways. Add to that a growing unhappiness that your contributions to the band were not appropriately recognized, that despite your considerable input it was still largely a Mick and Keith show. He possibly felt sidelined in a similar way like Brian, who knows...

You make good points, but Jagger and some others were trying to convince him to stay. So it’s not like he was being influenced by “voices” besides his own. Andy Johns may have been reinforcing his own thoughts.

I don’t necessarily believe that “he quit to save his life”, but I believe that was the outcome. Developing a heroin addiction and missing sessions to have surgery due to cocaine use both occurred during his time with the Stones. He said he was tired of being a Rolling Stone.

The Jack Bruce stuff had the potential to be a King Crimson/Gentle Giant type of band with a niche market. There could have been some longevity, but the drug use ruined that. It can also be said the failure of that band saved his life as well.

I would have like to learned how the Edge might have sounded playing with Keith if he had been around at that time.Totally different than Beck .

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Taylor1
I would have like to learned how the Edge might have sounded playing with Keith if he had been around at that time.Totally different than Beck .

At least, you can hear him with Ronnie on Slide On This

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TravelinMan

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retired_dog

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TravelinMan

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retired_dog

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Taylor1
Ithink that after the Jack Bruce/CarlaBley band dissolved in July 1975,if the Stones had asked him to rejoin in 1975,he would have done so.I also think that anytime from 1976 to 20114 had he been asked to rejoin ,he would have.Waddy Wachtell played on 10 of 13 tracks on Bridges to Babylon,so if they had asked him to fill that role alongside Ron and Keith,I doubt he would have turned them down.He obviously would have been pleased to play on all the songs on the 50 and Counting Tour rather than the 2or 3pernight he was given.

I can only agree here.

Furthermore, I believe that whoever whispered in Taylor's ears that he could stand on his own feet like Clapton as a role model did a serious and almost tragic mistake.

I’m pretty sure he made the decision by himself and ignored the people trying to talk him out of it. I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to believe. He was bored of the same shit, tired of the insanity. He wanted out and it probably saved his life.

It's hard to believe because it does not really add up. It's not exactly "the Stones", it was more or less Keith only who was a serious addict back then. If you want to escape Keith's supposedly "bad influence", you don't join forces with other serious addicts like Jack Bruce. Or better quit the music business at all because substances are everywhere, no matter where you look at. It's always been like that.

I have a feeling that this "left the Stones to save my life" is a myth consciously or maybe even unconsciously created by Taylor to find an excuse for a desastrous career move first for himself that was only later transported to the public when he himself firmly believed in this "justification".

As yearlong tours did not happen before 1989, there was enough spare time to follow individual, musically probably more challenging solo projects and cooperations while still staying in the band.

I think he just overestimated his own market value, artistic vision and probably also stamina to successfuly survive as a solo artist while at the same time, probably understandingly, misinterpreting the current situation of the band, believing that they were on their way down anyways. Add to that a growing unhappiness that your contributions to the band were not appropriately recognized, that despite your considerable input it was still largely a Mick and Keith show. He possibly felt sidelined in a similar way like Brian, who knows...

You make good points, but Jagger and some others were trying to convince him to stay. So it’s not like he was being influenced by “voices” besides his own. Andy Johns may have been reinforcing his own thoughts.

I don’t necessarily believe that “he quit to save his life”, but I believe that was the outcome. Developing a heroin addiction and missing sessions to have surgery due to cocaine use both occurred during his time with the Stones. He said he was tired of being a Rolling Stone.

The Jack Bruce stuff had the potential to be a King Crimson/Gentle Giant type of band with a niche market. There could have been some longevity, but the drug use ruined that. It can also be said the failure of that band saved his life as well.

Another escape, so to speak. I dunno, because it was not that he stayed sober afterwards, just the main subject of the addiction changed, speaking of alcohol. When I mentioned in a conversation with someone from (deep) inside the Stones camp many years ago how I miss Taylor with the Stones, I earned an astonished look and was answered: "Taylor? He's unreliable. But, yeah, he was good! But he's unreliable." And that was well before he temporarily re-joined them, another chapter that supposedly ended not on good terms. All this (and more) considering, I sense a degree of unsteadiness that largeley hampered his entire career. It looks like he always had to fight his own demons instead of having to end cooperations "to save his life" that always read like blaming other people for one's own shortcomings. I'm also not entirely convinced that he always had the right people as advisors around him. 'Nuff said.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-24 18:56 by retired_dog.

Nice to see the Gentle Giant mentioned here. While I do like a lot of prog rock, I must say I have seen the gentle giant live in Holland in 1976,and I almost suffered from some sort of 'substitute fear of failure', if that's the right way to put it. They were a league of their own. The playing and use of the Canon below is like a dangerous circus act, the Trapeze act starts at 2:12

Gentle Giant, "On Reflection Live"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-24 19:19 by TheflyingDutchman.

Anybody fortunate to have seen Rory Gallagher can attest to his tremendous skill, energy and charisma. There's no way the Stones would have had a member that would overshadow both the guitarist AND the front man.

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retired_dog
Another escape, so to speak. I dunno, because it was not that he stayed sober afterwards, just the main subject of the addiction changed, speaking of alcohol. When I mentioned in a conversation with someone from (deep) inside the Stones camp many years ago how I miss Taylor with the Stones, I earned an astonished look and was answered: "Taylor? He's unreliable. But, yeah, he was good! But he's unreliable." And that was well before he temporarily re-joined them, another chapter that supposedly ended not on good terms. All this (and more) considering, I sense a degree of unsteadiness that largeley hampered his entire career. It looks like he always had to fight his own demons instead of having to end cooperations "to save his life" that always read like blaming other people for one's own shortcomings. I'm also not entirely convinced that he always had the right people as advisors around him. 'Nuff said.

Like I said, I don’t think that was the reason he quit, just a byproduct. One that we’ll never know the answer to of course. We do know he didn’t have an addiction problem until he joined the Stones.

Anyway, get your buddy on the horn and let’s see if we can find a way to get those Dallas Rehearsals released!