Quote
retired_dog

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
retired_dog

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
retired_dog
Then again, much of what I said above about Gallagher could also be said about Mick Taylor when he was on his own. So I would not totally rule out that it could have worked with the Stones around.

BS. Comparing Mick Taylor’s albums to his? Not even close. Taylor touches on way more styles and his first album is one of the best Stones solo efforts there is.

That's not what I said and did. Please read again. My quote is probably a bit unfair to Rory, because his career wasn't the desaster that Taylor's solo career turned into. I just suggested that like the Stones brought out the best in Taylor, it's not unthinkable that they also could have brought out the best in Rory.

I’m saying Taylor moved outside of the “workman style blues” boundaries when he went solo.

“Lacks soul, emotion, imagination, and restraint.” I personally, and certainly many others, don’t feel that way about Taylor. With the Stones or solo.

I suppose that’s why they’re opinions.

Of course these are all opinions.
“Lacks soul, emotion, imagination, and restraint.” I obviously meant his solo work for the large part, not his work with the Stones. I went to many solo gigs and all in all felt that there was not any development whatsover over the years, that he was basically playing the same stuff all the time.

I doubt that Taylor will be remembered for 20 minute aimless rambling on stuff like "Goin' South" - just to mention one extreme.

I see. Well, I was never able to see Taylor live, unfortunately he cancelled the show I had tickets for. Listening to the performances, I can definitely differentiate the various periods. My favorite actually being the late 99’s/early 2000’s. As for “Goin South”, hey, at least he always let everyone have a solo!

By the way, when is your buddy going to release the full Dallas Rehearsals?

Quote
OpenG
I think MT showed his talent with writing Slow Blues, Giddy Up and Spanish A Minor
I think his two studio records were fantastic and he wasted his talent all those years after the stones and just collaborated with other artists to get by. I do not think Jeff Beck could of wrote a better blues composition then Slow Blues or a better tonal fushion masterpiece like Spanish A Minor. Just my opinion

I love that Mick T solo album and indeed Spanish A Minor is fantastic. However the fact he released it without bothering coming up with a replacement for its working title says a lot to me about why his solo career never took off.

Good point about working title I would of called it Leather it would of been great if he toured but it came out during punk rock times were a changing

Leather Jacket is what I meant

Quote
vertigojoe

Quote
OpenG
I think MT showed his talent with writing Slow Blues, Giddy Up and Spanish A Minor
I think his two studio records were fantastic and he wasted his talent all those years after the stones and just collaborated with other artists to get by. I do not think Jeff Beck could of wrote a better blues composition then Slow Blues or a better tonal fushion masterpiece like Spanish A Minor. Just my opinion

I love that Mick T solo album and indeed Spanish A Minor is fantastic. However the fact he released it without bothering coming up with a replacement for its working title says a lot to me about why his solo career never took off.

Meh, didn’t hurt Led Zeppelin. I think the problem was he didn’t tour for it. Had Columbia (I think) funded a tour for him, it might have done better.

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
vertigojoe

Quote
OpenG
I think MT showed his talent with writing Slow Blues, Giddy Up and Spanish A Minor
I think his two studio records were fantastic and he wasted his talent all those years after the stones and just collaborated with other artists to get by. I do not think Jeff Beck could of wrote a better blues composition then Slow Blues or a better tonal fushion masterpiece like Spanish A Minor. Just my opinion

I love that Mick T solo album and indeed Spanish A Minor is fantastic. However the fact he released it without bothering coming up with a replacement for its working title says a lot to me about why his solo career never took off.

Meh, didn’t hurt Led Zeppelin. I think the problem was he didn’t tour for it. Had Columbia (I think) funded a tour for him, it might have done better.

I think that it was just "niche product" for Columbia. They probably did it not because they believed in the music, but that just the name Mick Taylor and his status as an ex-Stone could probably sell. The album was a test balloon to check his actual market value. When sales were disappointing, they dropped him like a hot coal.

>They probably did it not because they believed in the music,

Not to state the obvious, but its called the music "business" for a reason. No record company does it because "they believed in the music". Its entirely naïve to even think that. Its all about return on the dollar invested. They are a company and want to see a profit on any product they release.

jb

Taylor’ssolo music is niche music It was never going to bring big album sales.If he wanted that,he should have stayed with the Stones.He easily could have done his solo stuff on the side and remained in the band .Why he left was perhaps the biggest career move mistake in rock history next to Pete Best pissing off John Lennon.

Quote
jbwelda
>They probably did it not because they believed in the music,

Not to state the obvious, but its called the music "business" for a reason. No record company does it because "they believed in the music". Its entirely naïve to even think that. Its all about return on the dollar invested. They are a company and want to see a profit on any product they release.

jb

With your wisdom I ask myself why record companies ever signed new and unknown artists and employed A&R managers at all.

They may like the music they put out or not, but that's not the point. They put out music they think could sell - for whatever reason.

What I meant was that in Taylor's case, it was most likely not a case of believing that the actual music being perfect for the actual market back then, but a case of name-dropping only. I seriously doubt that the very same album by an unknown artist would have raised Columbia's interest.

Quote
Taylor1
Taylor’ssolo music is niche music It was never going to bring big album sales.If he wanted that,he should have stayed with the Stones.He easily could have done his solo stuff on the side and remained in the band .Why he left was perhaps the biggest career move mistake in rock history next to Pete Best pissing off John Lennon.

I have said it before and I'll say it again if he is still alive because he left then it is not a mistake.

In addition, if he was unhappy with the situation why stay? Life is too short for that.

Quote
retired_dog

Quote
jbwelda
>They probably did it not because they believed in the music,

Not to state the obvious, but its called the music "business" for a reason. No record company does it because "they believed in the music". Its entirely naïve to even think that. Its all about return on the dollar invested. They are a company and want to see a profit on any product they release.

jb

With your wisdom I ask myself why record companies ever signed new and unknown artists and employed A&R managers at all.

They may like the music they put out or not, but that's not the point. They put out music they think could sell - for whatever reason.

What I meant was that in Taylor's case, it was most likely not a case of believing that the actual music being perfect for the actual market back then, but a case of name-dropping only. I seriously doubt that the very same album by an unknown artist would have raised Columbia's interest.

I’m pretty sure he had the contract before he set foot in a recording studio. So they had no idea what he was going to do. It took him forever to make that record because he produced it himself.

Quote
boogaloojef

Quote
Taylor1
Taylor’ssolo music is niche music It was never going to bring big album sales.If he wanted that,he should have stayed with the Stones.He easily could have done his solo stuff on the side and remained in the band .Why he left was perhaps the biggest career move mistake in rock history next to Pete Best pissing off John Lennon.

I have said it before and I'll say it again if he is still alive because he left then it is not a mistake.

In addition, if he was unhappy with the situation why stay? Life is too short for that.

Isn't that a bit dramatic or even pathetic?

If he really wanted to escape the Stones to save his life, why did he hook up with an addict like Jack Bruce straight away? In the end, it's up to yourself how you handle a "drug environment" and stay clean & healthy and don't blame others that they entice you to use substances.

I'm sure that he was unhappy with the situation because he found the Stones music obviously increasingly limiting. But it's also true that he could have done loads of side-projects while staying in the band at the same time like Taylor1 already pointed out above.

I also suspect that his "unhappiness" with the Stones was whispered in his ears by third parties to a certain, if not large degree - "listen, Mick, you're the star of the show by now, you can do it on your own, you don't need these guys anymore!"...

<he found the Stones music obviously increasingly limiting>

Is that obvious? IMO, they were writing songs for SF, GHS and IORR that both gave Taylor more space and a different musical platform for him to express himself.

That made his decision to leave even more puzzling.

Quote
DandelionPowderman


Is that obvious? IMO, they were writing songs for SF, GHS and IORR that both gave Taylor more space and a different musical platform for him to express himself.

That made his decision to leave even more puzzling.

It seemed pretty obvious for me because I was reading it from Taylor interviews along the lines that he wanted to "musically evolve", "take the next step", "move on as an artist" and so on but I could be wrong of course. Then again, the "different musical platforms" they gave him happened just once, in the studio - while night after night on stage, it was more or less back to basic rock'n'roll structures with the rare blues thrown in ("Love In Vain"). The more complex stuff like "CYHMK", "Moonlight Mile" or "Winter" and the like was almost completely absent in their setlists back then.

Didn't he mention in an old interview that as late as 1973, he sometimes felt that his mind was not even present on stage, that he sometimes came off stage and did not remember a single note he played?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-21 18:37 by retired_dog.

Ithink that after the Jack Bruce/CarlaBley band dissolved in July 1975,if the Stones had asked him to rejoin in 1975,he would have done so.I also think that anytime from 1976 to 20114 had he been asked to rejoin ,he would have.Waddy Wachtell played on 10 of 13 tracks on Bridges to Babylon,so if they had asked him to fill that role alongside Ron and Keith,I doubt he would have turned them down.He obviously would have been pleased to play on all the songs on the 50 and Counting Tour rather than the 2or 3pernight he was given.

Quote
DandelionPowderman


Is that obvious? IMO, they were writing songs for SF, GHS and IORR that both gave Taylor more space and a different musical platform for him to express himself.

That made his decision to leave even more puzzling.

I believe that Taylor still doesn't know why he left the Stones. Anyway, about the biggest blunder in rock history , imo.

Quote
Taylor1
Ithink that after the Jack Bruce/CarlaBley band dissolved in July 1975,if the Stones had asked him to rejoin in 1975,he would have done so.I also think that anytime from 1976 to 20114 had he been asked to rejoin ,he would have.Waddy Wachtell played on 10 of 13 tracks on Bridges to Babylon,so if they had asked him to fill that role alongside Ron and Keith,I doubt he would have turned them down.He obviously would have been pleased to play on all the songs on the 50 and Counting Tour rather than the 2or 3pernight he was given.

I can only agree here.

Furthermore, I believe that whoever whispered in Taylor's ears that he could stand on his own feet like Clapton as a role model did a serious and almost tragic mistake.

Quote
DandelionPowderman


Is that obvious? IMO, they were writing songs for SF, GHS and IORR that both gave Taylor more space and a different musical platform for him to express himself.

That made his decision to leave even more puzzling.

(I am keeping in mind Boogaloojef's post from above: "I have said it before and I'll say it again if he is still alive because he left then it is not a mistake.")

I posted this several years ago under the Have You Ever Met a Rolling Stone? thread on this forum.

I met Mick Taylor (of all places) in my hometown of Rochester, NY in the mid or later 1980's at the legendary House of Guitars (which is billed as the "Largest Guitar Store in the World", and is three minutes from my house). An acquaintance of mine who works in the music business brought Taylor to the House to sign autographs (this was advertised by the House of Guitars but Mick allegedly had no knowledge that he was brought there to sign autographs). Mick was in town for some music festival in Rochester. Anyway, all of 20 people (if that) showed up, one guy bringing with him the Some Girls album for Mick to sign. Mick says, "I didn't play on that one." The fan says: "I don't care, you can sign it anyway" and Mick obliged. I was the last one in line and Mick signed my copy of Get Yer Ya Yas Out. Mick says, "I still got that guitar" pointing to the SG on the cover. We talked for about five minutes or so. I was actually proud of myself because I could have acted like a total dork in front of this guy (imagine, one of my childhood idols and guitar hero to boot is right in front of me) but I remained pretty cool and calm. During our few minutes together, Mick was very kind and gracious. I made some comment like, "I know you have probably heard this many times, but I think that the Stones best work was during the years you were with them." He thanked me for the comment and downplayed the compliment saying something like they were already established before he came along. I don't know whether I was brave or just downright stupid, but I felt a little bolder and asked Mick the question that was burning in my brain because I knew I would never have this moment again: "I know you have probably been asked this a million times, but what happened that you decided to walk away from it all?" I remember that he looked at me for a moment, then looked away embarrassed as he spoke, and said something to the effect (can't remember the exact quote) that the lifestyle was too much and/or different for him and he knew it was time to leave. I thanked him for his time, we shook hands, and he departed.

This is just my two cents, but from the answer Mick gave me (he could of just said "@#$%& off" or "It is none of your business" but he didn't), I believe his choice to leave was probably a smart one, that arguably in the long run, saved his life.



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-22 02:02 by Sighunt.

Quote
retired_dog

Quote
boogaloojef

Quote
Taylor1
Taylor’ssolo music is niche music It was never going to bring big album sales.If he wanted that,he should have stayed with the Stones.He easily could have done his solo stuff on the side and remained in the band .Why he left was perhaps the biggest career move mistake in rock history next to Pete Best pissing off John Lennon.

I have said it before and I'll say it again if he is still alive because he left then it is not a mistake.

In addition, if he was unhappy with the situation why stay? Life is too short for that.

Isn't that a bit dramatic or even pathetic?

If he really wanted to escape the Stones to save his life, why did he hook up with an addict like Jack Bruce straight away? In the end, it's up to yourself how you handle a "drug environment" and stay clean & healthy and don't blame others that they entice you to use substances.

I'm sure that he was unhappy with the situation because he found the Stones music obviously increasingly limiting. But it's also true that he could have done loads of side-projects while staying in the band at the same time like Taylor1 already pointed out above.

I also suspect that his "unhappiness" with the Stones was whispered in his ears by third parties to a certain, if not large degree - "listen, Mick, you're the star of the show by now, you can do it on your own, you don't need these guys anymore!"...

It was easier for him obtain drugs with the Stones. They had a dentist providing them with pharmaceutical grade cocaine. I doubt Taylor had that after he left. He has also mentioned in interviews that he needed to get away from the drug culture of the Stones. He actually missed the early It's Only Rock 'n' Roll sessions because he was in the hospital. Some say he had to have surgery on his nose to fix it due to snorting so much cocaine.

In addition he had been playing jazz fusion sessions with people like Herbie Mann and later Gong. I am sure he thought the Stones would never be playing something like that. I think he thought a similar fusion thing would happen with Jack Bruce and just didn't work out.

I also think it telling that he was sitting in with Billy Preston's God Squad part of the time during the 1973 Tour. I wonder if it was just to be able to play something different. This was recorded on Preston's Live European Tour 1973.

He also probably did not find it too cool that according to Andy Johns Keith was going into the studios after Taylor left and erasing his guitar parts sometimes.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-21 19:44 by boogaloojef.

te
DandelionPowderman


Is that obvious? IMO, they were writing songs for SF, GHS and IORR that both gave Taylor more space and a different musical platform for him to express himself.

That made his decision to leave even more puzzling.

Great point DP - Thats why I listen to GHS and IORR more along with BB then any other RS record. They were exploring more with Jaggers vocals and crafting great ballads and the diversity of both albums I do not think he was bored it was those songs on IORR that he expected song credit that pushed him over.

After Exile, the glimmer boys put out a different sounding record with Goats Head Soup. The Album is dominated by crafty ballads, the theme of the album.
'100 Years Ago', a mystical type of feel has Jagger singing from his heart and Mick Taylor's blistering wah wah guitar kicks the song into another gear. Keith's 'Coming Down Again', dives into his personal issues with drugs and his singing is great. One of Keith's best moments singing on record. 'Angie', the classic rock ballad has Jagger singing great with fantastic lyrics and great acoustic guitar by Keith .Winter is a Jagger/Taylor song which has great lyrics and vocals by Jagger.'Winter' is a treasure and has Jagger playing against Taylor's brilliant solo and is one of the finest moments on any Stones record. Mick Taylor should of received some song credit. 'Star Star' is a rocker and has Taylor and Richards interplaying against each other. Both players playing the rhythm and adding their different lead solos.'Dancing With Mr. D', is the second coming of 'Sympathy For the Devil'. 'Silver Train', has Keith's driving rhythm and Taylor laying down his signature ringing slide which is awesome.'Hide Your Love', and 'Can't You Hear The Music', are different and add to the diversity of the album. 'Heartbreaker', has the signature sound of the Stones with Keith's driving rhythm and M T laying down some Hendrix sounding wah wah solo.

To bad MT did not get a chance a release a single of his debut record - Leather Jacket and I would of choose Baby I Want You( It like a single by the band Bread, ot Broken Hands.

It would have been interesting if had he stayed in the band in 1975 if the Glimmer Twins would have squeezed something like his great Spanish A minor onto Black n Blue,perhaps with lyrics.Or maybe Slave with a Taylor solo

Quote
OpenG
te
DandelionPowderman


Is that obvious? IMO, they were writing songs for SF, GHS and IORR that both gave Taylor more space and a different musical platform for him to express himself.

That made his decision to leave even more puzzling.

Great point DP - Thats why I listen to GHS and IORR more along with BB then any other RS record. They were exploring more with Jaggers vocals and crafting great ballads and the diversity of both albums I do not think he was bored it was those songs on IORR that he expected song credit that pushed him over.

After Exile, the glimmer boys put out a different sounding record with Goats Head Soup. The Album is dominated by crafty ballads, the theme of the album.
'100 Years Ago', a mystical type of feel has Jagger singing from his heart and Mick Taylor's blistering wah wah guitar kicks the song into another gear. Keith's 'Coming Down Again', dives into his personal issues with drugs and his singing is great. One of Keith's best moments singing on record. 'Angie', the classic rock ballad has Jagger singing great with fantastic lyrics and great acoustic guitar by Keith .Winter is a Jagger/Taylor song which has great lyrics and vocals by Jagger.'Winter' is a treasure and has Jagger playing against Taylor's brilliant solo and is one of the finest moments on any Stones record. Mick Taylor should of received some song credit. 'Star Star' is a rocker and has Taylor and Richards interplaying against each other. Both players playing the rhythm and adding their different lead solos.'Dancing With Mr. D', is the second coming of 'Sympathy For the Devil'. 'Silver Train', has Keith's driving rhythm and Taylor laying down his signature ringing slide which is awesome.'Hide Your Love', and 'Can't You Hear The Music', are different and add to the diversity of the album. 'Heartbreaker', has the signature sound of the Stones with Keith's driving rhythm and M T laying down some Hendrix sounding wah wah solo.

To bad MT did not get a chance a release a single of his debut record - Leather Jacket and I would of choose Baby I Want You( It like a single by the band Bread, ot Broken Hands.

Both "Exile" and "GHS", despite being so different from each other - or maybe even because of it -, represent the pinnacle of the Stones musical evolution for me. Or better said: It was never "the golden 4" for me, always "the golden 5" (in fact, "the golden 6" because I always counted YaYa's in).

Quote
Taylor1
Ithink that after the Jack Bruce/CarlaBley band dissolved in July 1975,if the Stones had asked him to rejoin in 1975,he would have done so.I also think that anytime from 1976 to 20114 had he been asked to rejoin ,he would have.Waddy Wachtell played on 10 of 13 tracks on Bridges to Babylon,so if they had asked him to fill that role alongside Ron and Keith,I doubt he would have turned them down.He obviously would have been pleased to play on all the songs on the 50 and Counting Tour rather than the 2or 3pernight he was given.

Did you listen to his playing on that tour?

If you are speaking about the 50 and counting tour,he played great occasionally,like can’t you hear me knocking at Glastonbury and many Midnight Ramblers,despite having little time to warm up.

Quote
retired_dog

Quote
Taylor1
Ithink that after the Jack Bruce/CarlaBley band dissolved in July 1975,if the Stones had asked him to rejoin in 1975,he would have done so.I also think that anytime from 1976 to 20114 had he been asked to rejoin ,he would have.Waddy Wachtell played on 10 of 13 tracks on Bridges to Babylon,so if they had asked him to fill that role alongside Ron and Keith,I doubt he would have turned them down.He obviously would have been pleased to play on all the songs on the 50 and Counting Tour rather than the 2or 3pernight he was given.

I can only agree here.

Furthermore, I believe that whoever whispered in Taylor's ears that he could stand on his own feet like Clapton as a role model did a serious and almost tragic mistake.

I’m pretty sure he made the decision by himself and ignored the people trying to talk him out of it. I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to believe. He was bored of the same shit, tired of the insanity. He wanted out and it probably saved his life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-22 04:57 by TravelinMan.

So now the thread is 100% about Mick Taylor

Quote
LieB
So now the thread is 100% about Mick Taylor

Tells me something about the musical heart of several hardcore Stones Fans.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-22 12:32 by TheflyingDutchman.

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
retired_dog

Quote
Taylor1
Ithink that after the Jack Bruce/CarlaBley band dissolved in July 1975,if the Stones had asked him to rejoin in 1975,he would have done so.I also think that anytime from 1976 to 20114 had he been asked to rejoin ,he would have.Waddy Wachtell played on 10 of 13 tracks on Bridges to Babylon,so if they had asked him to fill that role alongside Ron and Keith,I doubt he would have turned them down.He obviously would have been pleased to play on all the songs on the 50 and Counting Tour rather than the 2or 3pernight he was given.

I can only agree here.

Furthermore, I believe that whoever whispered in Taylor's ears that he could stand on his own feet like Clapton as a role model did a serious and almost tragic mistake.

I’m pretty sure he made the decision by himself and ignored the people trying to talk him out of it. I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to believe. He was bored of the same shit, tired of the insanity. He wanted out and it probably saved his life.

The "same shit" like TWFNO, 100 Years Ago, Can You Hear The Music, CYHMK, Winter and If You Really Want To Be My Friend?

I don't buy that bit. Seems to me he got more of what he wanted right before he quit. Those songs didn't really take off, though.

And surprisingly, Taylor wasn't very enthusiastic about GHS and IORR. Maybe he wanted even more songs like TWFNO and CYHMK?

Quote
Taylor1
Taylor’ssolo music is niche music It was never going to bring big album sales.If he wanted that,he should have stayed with the Stones.He easily could have done his solo stuff on the side and remained in the band .Why he left was perhaps the biggest career move mistake in rock history next to Pete Best pissing off John Lennon.

Dick Rowe, the Decca guy who told Epstein that 'beat groups are on the way out' has just told me to hold his beer....

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
retired_dog

Quote
Taylor1
Ithink that after the Jack Bruce/CarlaBley band dissolved in July 1975,if the Stones had asked him to rejoin in 1975,he would have done so.I also think that anytime from 1976 to 20114 had he been asked to rejoin ,he would have.Waddy Wachtell played on 10 of 13 tracks on Bridges to Babylon,so if they had asked him to fill that role alongside Ron and Keith,I doubt he would have turned them down.He obviously would have been pleased to play on all the songs on the 50 and Counting Tour rather than the 2or 3pernight he was given.

I can only agree here.

Furthermore, I believe that whoever whispered in Taylor's ears that he could stand on his own feet like Clapton as a role model did a serious and almost tragic mistake.

I’m pretty sure he made the decision by himself and ignored the people trying to talk him out of it. I don’t know why that’s so hard for people to believe. He was bored of the same shit, tired of the insanity. He wanted out and it probably saved his life.

The "same shit" like TWFNO, 100 Years Ago, Can You Hear The Music, CYHMK, Winter and If You Really Want To Be My Friend?

I don't buy that bit. Seems to me he got more of what he wanted right before he quit. Those songs didn't really take off, though.

And surprisingly, Taylor wasn't very enthusiastic about GHS and IORR. Maybe he wanted even more songs like TWFNO and CYHMK?

I didn’t necessarily mean the music, but the day-in and day-out of the rock and roll “job”. I believe had they toured for IORR, he would have stuck around longer.