Tell Me :
Talk
Indeed, the Rolling Stones have artistic license and nobody wants to live in a sterile world. And in terms of offensive lyrics, what they say pales in comparison to mainstream pop music these days. I looked at some "Doja Cat" videos on YouTube recently and they were very adult and very raunchy.
Colored person? Do you live in the 1940’s?
Archie Bunker used to say that. So it would of been the 1970's.
I'm sorry, english is not my first language. What is the right term?
In the 1970's? Archie Bunker and nobody else!
That was the joke--that he was so clueless he was using a term that had long been an anachronism.
some of them, they alright.... >
<
How many people even know what the first verse of Brown Sugar is? Everything else about the song is so damn catchy that it's easy to forget how nasty that verse is. There's a recording somewhere from around '72 of Keith reciting that verse almost like a poetry reading that really brings the nasty home.
Anyway, Jagger has been altering the words to Brown Sugar onstage for decades. He hardly ever sings "Hear him whip the women..." in last line of the first verse, as he does on the studio version. He almost always sings "Y'all should have heard me..." or something like that.
Agreed. And regarding Brown Sugar, it's hardly like its never been played live before! Maybe its an opportune moment to retire this wonderful warhorse rather than destroy its lyrics.
Well, what Midnight Toker says implies that those in the FAR RIGHT think racism is alright.
Which probably is the case.
Anyway, the case of "Brown Sugar" is a tricky one. I have always interpreted the song playing with the images and attitudes of the past - something between journalism and sarcasm - and I have never interpreted it as racist. More like antiracist one. But then again - they truely are playing with the fire there (kids, don't try that at home!). I think telling is the first public performance of it - Mick playing it to Ike and Tina Turner, and see the hilarous reaction of Tina... Mick clearly knows the dariness and shocking value of the lyrics, which probably is the point of whole song... and taking today's (justified) sensitivism, I understand why it easily can be targeted. There was an individual attack against it last year. At the time I saw it ridiculous, but I don't know now. I guess for many of us belonging to the old guard of rock generations, that kind of dariness and edge "Brown Sugar" represents is a part of the charm. I mean, that's rock and roll, baby! Da Stones! But what about if we were, at least partly, wrong? Were there things we didn't realize back then, but that are now, as the awereness increases, revealed and we should know now better? Time to grow up for us as well? I have no answers, just questions.
I guess the problem with "Brown Sugar" in regard to racism is not if the lyrics are, if put under scrutiny, racist or not, but more like: is it sensible, no matter what your intentions are, to play at all with images like that? Images with such strong racist connotations? Isn't that, if not necessarily racist, but just stupid and tasteless?
I guess it is a tricky issue for Jagger as well. He seemingly haven't been comfortable with it for a long time, like he hasn't with "Street Fighting Man" either. He clearly isn't the guy in his twenties any longer, no matter that he still does what he did back then...
Growing up gracefully? Well, that's the problem for Sir Mick and rest of us too who still dig the music we did in our teens many, many decades ago...
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-11 11:27 by Doxa.
It talks about slavery as a historic fact: it does not praise, sanitise or romanticise the bad old days.
Oh the humanity. Question is who’s left(or right) to write stirring music about the times today? Who truly believes enough to write a rock song to today’s revolution/morals?
Just out of curiosity, what does your wife think?
AMEN
Perhaps they will. But it is censored already - have been since the 70s
Nobody should worry, of course they'll keep on playing BS - if they tour more, that is.
We’re estranged at the moment!
No, we are in contact and I was intended to chat with her about this. She’s South African and fled apartheid with her mother and sister in the late 80’s. I would say that she is a person with a strong understanding of race and prejudice. I suspect she’ll see the pulling-down of statues as vandalism, but her heart will undoubtedly be with the cause. She’s quite a racially-aware person, so I’m sure her overall views are strong and formed on the issue. In regards to Brown Sugar: I genuinely don’t think she paid attention to the lyrics. She liked wearing my Rolling Stones t-shirts.
The above would be her view, but I also have black male and female friends who couldn’t give a hoot about any of this!
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints.
But what's confusing you is just the nature of his game.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
MileHigh
()
Date: June 11, 2020 04:01
Quote
SomeGuy
As far as I can tell, there is yet a courtcase to be held about the recent incident involving a policeteam (of mixed race, btw) that applied apparently unnecessary force against a coloured person, with terrible outcome. So, as of yet, no one knows what their motive was.
To return to the subject. In the present light of things, I wouldn't be surprised if some people were seeing fit, having read this discussion, to go out and demolish our beloved band and everything they did for us, also.
Indeed, the Rolling Stones have artistic license and nobody wants to live in a sterile world. And in terms of offensive lyrics, what they say pales in comparison to mainstream pop music these days. I looked at some "Doja Cat" videos on YouTube recently and they were very adult and very raunchy.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
eduardoacdc
()
Date: June 11, 2020 04:17
The answer for the question in the title of the thread is: hopefully YES
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Cooltoplady
()
Date: June 11, 2020 05:00
Quote
SomeGuy
As far as I can tell, there is yet a courtcase to be held about the recent incident involving a policeteam (of mixed race, btw) that applied apparently unnecessary force against a coloured person, with terrible outcome. So, as of yet, no one knows what their motive was.
To return to the subject. In the present light of things, I wouldn't be surprised if some people were seeing fit, having read this discussion, to go out and demolish our beloved band and everything they did for us, also.
Colored person? Do you live in the 1940’s?
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
More Hot Rocks
()
Date: June 11, 2020 05:03
Quote
CooltopladyQuote
SomeGuy
As far as I can tell, there is yet a courtcase to be held about the recent incident involving a policeteam (of mixed race, btw) that applied apparently unnecessary force against a coloured person, with terrible outcome. So, as of yet, no one knows what their motive was.
To return to the subject. In the present light of things, I wouldn't be surprised if some people were seeing fit, having read this discussion, to go out and demolish our beloved band and everything they did for us, also.
Colored person? Do you live in the 1940’s?
Archie Bunker used to say that. So it would of been the 1970's.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
SomeGuy
()
Date: June 11, 2020 05:09
Quote
More Hot RocksQuote
CooltopladyQuote
SomeGuy
As far as I can tell, there is yet a courtcase to be held about the recent incident involving a policeteam (of mixed race, btw) that applied apparently unnecessary force against a coloured person, with terrible outcome. So, as of yet, no one knows what their motive was.
To return to the subject. In the present light of things, I wouldn't be surprised if some people were seeing fit, having read this discussion, to go out and demolish our beloved band and everything they did for us, also.
Colored person? Do you live in the 1940’s?
Archie Bunker used to say that. So it would of been the 1970's.
I'm sorry, english is not my first language. What is the right term?
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
loog droog
()
Date: June 11, 2020 05:27
Quote
More Hot RocksQuote
CooltopladyQuote
SomeGuy
As far as I can tell, there is yet a courtcase to be held about the recent incident involving a policeteam (of mixed race, btw) that applied apparently unnecessary force against a coloured person, with terrible outcome. So, as of yet, no one knows what their motive was.
To return to the subject. In the present light of things, I wouldn't be surprised if some people were seeing fit, having read this discussion, to go out and demolish our beloved band and everything they did for us, also.
Colored person? Do you live in the 1940’s?
Archie Bunker used to say that. So it would of been the 1970's.
In the 1970's? Archie Bunker and nobody else!
That was the joke--that he was so clueless he was using a term that had long been an anachronism.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
steffialicia
()
Date: June 11, 2020 05:35
Quote
SomeGuyQuote
More Hot RocksQuote
CooltopladyQuote
SomeGuy
As far as I can tell, there is yet a courtcase to be held about the recent incident involving a policeteam (of mixed race, btw) that applied apparently unnecessary force against a coloured person, with terrible outcome. So, as of yet, no one knows what their motive was.
To return to the subject. In the present light of things, I wouldn't be surprised if some people were seeing fit, having read this discussion, to go out and demolish our beloved band and everything they did for us, also.
Colored person? Do you live in the 1940’s?
Black person would be appropriate
Archie Bunker used to say that. So it would of been the 1970's.
I'm sorry, english is not my first language. What is the right term?
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
WelshEdge1
()
Date: June 11, 2020 05:37
"Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?"
I hope they play something rare instead. It's a warhorse everyone has heard a million times.
I hope they play something rare instead. It's a warhorse everyone has heard a million times.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: June 11, 2020 05:38
CS Blues ?????????????
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Paddy
()
Date: June 11, 2020 05:44
I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
crholmstrom
()
Date: June 11, 2020 05:44
Quote
Rockman
CS Blues ?????????????
some of them, they alright.... >
<Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
ab
()
Date: June 11, 2020 05:45
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
IrixQuote
Kingbeebuzz
I wonder if we will ever hear Brown Sugar played live by The Stones again, or indeed ever played on radio ?
If there's now a issue with the lyrics they could alter them like they've done it with 'Some Girls' (leaving out the black girls part) ....
And with Under My Thumb on the 2017-2019 tours.
How many people even know what the first verse of Brown Sugar is? Everything else about the song is so damn catchy that it's easy to forget how nasty that verse is. There's a recording somewhere from around '72 of Keith reciting that verse almost like a poetry reading that really brings the nasty home.
Anyway, Jagger has been altering the words to Brown Sugar onstage for decades. He hardly ever sings "Hear him whip the women..." in last line of the first verse, as he does on the studio version. He almost always sings "Y'all should have heard me..." or something like that.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
mrjones
()
Date: June 11, 2020 05:50
star fockr star fockr a star??
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: June 11, 2020 05:52
I always dig the lyrics of Stones songs
But so many people on here have stated that they
dont care about the lyrics .....only listen to the music
So in that case why would they be upset with words of Brown Sugar or Some Gals etc
ROCKMAN
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-11 05:52 by Rockman.
But so many people on here have stated that they
dont care about the lyrics .....only listen to the music
So in that case why would they be upset with words of Brown Sugar or Some Gals etc
ROCKMAN
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-11 05:52 by Rockman.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
KingmanBarstow
()
Date: June 11, 2020 09:40
I hope that we do not enter a period of every song lyric being analyzed. This is getting to be nuts.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Father Ted
()
Date: June 11, 2020 10:29
Quote
Braincapers
I wish people would stop invoking 1984. In the book the past is rewritten and every believes, or at least pretends, the past always happened that way. That's not what's happening now. Tearing down statues of racists is, if anything, being more aware of the past.
Gone With The Wind isn't banned or unavailable it's just not on streaming platforms. If the Stones do stop playing BS then all our record, live albums and videos will all still be there.
Agreed. And regarding Brown Sugar, it's hardly like its never been played live before! Maybe its an opportune moment to retire this wonderful warhorse rather than destroy its lyrics.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: June 11, 2020 10:43
I hope that we do not enter a period of every song lyric being analyzed. This is getting to be nuts.
Yeah.... this is gonna be a toughy .......
ROCKMAN
Yeah.... this is gonna be a toughy .......
ROCKMAN
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: June 11, 2020 11:00
Quote
KoenQuote
Midnight Toker
They will play BS again. Please do not bow to the FAR LEFT.
It’s about humanity, please stop politicizing this.
Well, what Midnight Toker says implies that those in the FAR RIGHT think racism is alright.
Which probably is the case.
Anyway, the case of "Brown Sugar" is a tricky one. I have always interpreted the song playing with the images and attitudes of the past - something between journalism and sarcasm - and I have never interpreted it as racist. More like antiracist one. But then again - they truely are playing with the fire there (kids, don't try that at home!). I think telling is the first public performance of it - Mick playing it to Ike and Tina Turner, and see the hilarous reaction of Tina... Mick clearly knows the dariness and shocking value of the lyrics, which probably is the point of whole song... and taking today's (justified) sensitivism, I understand why it easily can be targeted. There was an individual attack against it last year. At the time I saw it ridiculous, but I don't know now. I guess for many of us belonging to the old guard of rock generations, that kind of dariness and edge "Brown Sugar" represents is a part of the charm. I mean, that's rock and roll, baby! Da Stones! But what about if we were, at least partly, wrong? Were there things we didn't realize back then, but that are now, as the awereness increases, revealed and we should know now better? Time to grow up for us as well? I have no answers, just questions.
I guess the problem with "Brown Sugar" in regard to racism is not if the lyrics are, if put under scrutiny, racist or not, but more like: is it sensible, no matter what your intentions are, to play at all with images like that? Images with such strong racist connotations? Isn't that, if not necessarily racist, but just stupid and tasteless?
I guess it is a tricky issue for Jagger as well. He seemingly haven't been comfortable with it for a long time, like he hasn't with "Street Fighting Man" either. He clearly isn't the guy in his twenties any longer, no matter that he still does what he did back then...
Growing up gracefully? Well, that's the problem for Sir Mick and rest of us too who still dig the music we did in our teens many, many decades ago...
- Doxa
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-11 11:27 by Doxa.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Green Lady
()
Date: June 11, 2020 11:34
Quote
wonderboy
What georgie48 said. It's not a racist song.
It talks about slavery as a historic fact: it does not praise, sanitise or romanticise the bad old days.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: June 11, 2020 11:36
Quote
DoxaQuote
KoenQuote
Midnight Toker
They will play BS again. Please do not bow to the FAR LEFT.
It’s about humanity, please stop politicizing this.
Well, what Midnight Toker says implies that those in the FAR RIGHT think racism is alright.
Which probably is the case.
Anyway, the case of "Brown Sugar" is a tricky one. I have always interpreted the song playing with the images and attitudes of the past - something between journalism and sarcasm - and I have never interpreted it as racist. More like antiracist one. But then again - they truely are playing with the fire there (kids, don't try that at home!). I think telling is the first public performance of it - Mick playing it to Ike and Tina Turner, and see the hilarous reaction of Tina... Mick clearly knows the dariness and shocking value of the lyrics, which probably is the point of whole song... and taking today's (justified) sensitivism, I understand why it easily can be targeted. There was an individual attack against it last year. At the time I saw it ridiculous, but I don't know now. I guess for many of us belonging to the old guard of rock generations, that kind of dariness and edge "Brown Sugar" represents is a part of the charm. I mean, that's rock and roll, baby! Da Stones! But what about if we were, at least partly, wrong? Were there things we didn't realize back then, but that are now, as the awereness increases, revealed and we should know now better? Time to grow up for us as well? I have no answers, just questions.
I guess the problem with "Brown Sugar" in regard to racism is not if the lyrics are, if put under scrutiny, racist or not, but more like: is it sensible, no matter what your intentions are, to play at all with images like that? Images with such strong racist connotations? Isn't that, if not necessarily racist, but just stupid and tasteless?
I guess it is a tricky issue for Jagger as well. He seemingly haven't been comfortable with it for a long time, like he hasn't with "Street Fighting Man" either. He clearly isn't the guy in his twenties any longer, no matter that he still does what he did back then...
Growing up gracefully? Well, that's the problem for Sir Mick and rest of us too who still dig the music we did in our teens many, many decades ago...
- Doxa
Oh the humanity. Question is who’s left(or right) to write stirring music about the times today? Who truly believes enough to write a rock song to today’s revolution/morals?
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Doc
()
Date: June 11, 2020 11:37
Please stop, this is only rock n'roll ! LOL
IMHO Some Girls is way more sensitive than Brown Sugar, but these are only song.
The world is getting way too politically correct, will humor be forbidden in the future ?
Years ago you could make jokes on blondes, jews, catholics, belgians, swiss people without anyone taking offense. The world is getting too serious, too sensitive.
We should look forward, make things better, but not deny nor forget the good and the bad things from the past.
They contributed to what we are and made us change.
IMHO Some Girls is way more sensitive than Brown Sugar, but these are only song.
The world is getting way too politically correct, will humor be forbidden in the future ?
Years ago you could make jokes on blondes, jews, catholics, belgians, swiss people without anyone taking offense. The world is getting too serious, too sensitive.
We should look forward, make things better, but not deny nor forget the good and the bad things from the past.
They contributed to what we are and made us change.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: June 11, 2020 11:45
I don’t think Brown Sugar should be scrapped.
I don’t think Little Britain should’ve been removed from Netflix
I don’t think statues should be removed.
I’m saying all this as someone married to a black woman.
I don’t think Little Britain should’ve been removed from Netflix
I don’t think statues should be removed.
I’m saying all this as someone married to a black woman.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
EddieByword
()
Date: June 11, 2020 11:58
Quote
Big Al
I don’t think Brown Sugar should be scrapped.
I don’t think Little Britain should’ve been removed from Netflix
I don’t think statues should be removed.
I’m saying all this as someone married to a black woman.
Just out of curiosity, what does your wife think?
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
MadMax
()
Date: June 11, 2020 12:02
Quote
Nate
The stones should open with it at their next show and play it at maximum volume.
I detest censorship.
Nate
AMEN
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: June 11, 2020 12:03
If we are talking not-pc, there are a few others too. Like Under My Thumb, Bitch, Start Me Up, So Young, Stray Cat Blues... You name them...
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: June 11, 2020 12:08
Quote
MadMaxQuote
Nate
The stones should open with it at their next show and play it at maximum volume.
I detest censorship.
Nate
AMEN
Perhaps they will. But it is censored already - have been since the 70s
Nobody should worry, of course they'll keep on playing BS - if they tour more, that is.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: June 11, 2020 12:19
Quote
EddieByword
Just out of curiosity, what does your wife think?
We’re estranged at the moment!
No, we are in contact and I was intended to chat with her about this. She’s South African and fled apartheid with her mother and sister in the late 80’s. I would say that she is a person with a strong understanding of race and prejudice. I suspect she’ll see the pulling-down of statues as vandalism, but her heart will undoubtedly be with the cause. She’s quite a racially-aware person, so I’m sure her overall views are strong and formed on the issue. In regards to Brown Sugar: I genuinely don’t think she paid attention to the lyrics. She liked wearing my Rolling Stones t-shirts.
The above would be her view, but I also have black male and female friends who couldn’t give a hoot about any of this!
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Green Lady
()
Date: June 11, 2020 12:26
I'm sorry to find that the road I live in, the pub on the corner of my High Street and the primary school I attended are all named after somebody on the renamers' hit list. Not a slave trader, but someone who held the catch-all "racist views", so nothing else he ever did now matters at all.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: June 11, 2020 12:50
Quote
SomeGuy
War Is Peace.
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints.
But what's confusing you is just the nature of his game.
Re: Will Brown Sugar ever be played live again ?
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: June 11, 2020 13:29
Social media has caused the world to shrink and many millennials now see themselves as global citizens. Hence, a very deep-rooted racial divide in the United States gets imported to the U.K.
This Thread has been closed
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