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Braincapers
I wish people would stop invoking 1984. In the book the past is rewritten and every believes, or at least pretends, the past always happened that way. That's not what's happening now. Tearing down statues of racists is, if anything, being more aware of the past.

Gone With The Wind isn't banned or unavailable it's just not on streaming platforms. If the Stones do stop playing BS then all our record, live albums and videos will all still be there.

I've been aware of the UK's past since I was kid but............I only became aware last week that there were these slave trader statues littered around the country - amazed.

I don't think tearing them down - legally or otherwise rewrites history - but I agree, it almost certainly does make people who weren't aware, aware.

I think leaving them there is more to do with the present - the purpose of a statue is to celebrate the person in the present in perpetuity - so, I think taking these statues away is just a matter of the Councils refraining from celebrating these characters any longer, which is a more human approach.

The history is still what it is.

Brown sugar?..................I figure if the backing singers et al and the bass player with the Stones don't mind singing and playing it ........I don't think there can be a problem.

Brown sugar certainly doesn't celebrate slavery, imo, more like it celebrates black people and shows the slavers to be degenerate.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-10 18:25 by EddieByword.

Mick changed the lyrics live years and years ago. I guess nobody noticed or nobody cared. "Hear him whip the women..." hasnt been sung for a long long time

It's a type of journalism. The narrator is commenting on events and human nature.

Latest news from UK.......there is now pressure in Liverpool to have Penny Lane renamed because Penny was a slave trader.

This is madness....what about my rights, my sensibilities.... if it’s gone this far I cannot see The Stones playing Brown Sugar live again which would be particularly sad because right from the start The Stones have done much to support and enable black artistes in the USA. They opened the door in many ways.

Mick said in an interview during the Zip Code tour that he sings songs/lyrics he is comfortable with and has changed or just avoided songs with lyrics he isn't comfortable with. He was pretty straight forward with his answer. He said in his 70s he doesn't always feel comfortable singing things he did in his 20s.

Last year before opening night this same subject was covered. And there was Brown Sugar closing the set off.

A bigger question.......will the Stones ever perform live again period......to me Brown Sugar is a moot point. I'm more concerned about them not touring anymore.

look at it this way my fellow snowflakes:

no one's talkin bout banning brown sugar FOREVER

i think 400 years ought to do it - just in the spirit of fair play y'know 1619-2019.

round 2419 or so we can all go back to being racist jackasses

sound like a plan?

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wonderboy
It's a type of journalism. The narrator is commenting on events and human nature.

Pretty much this.

The Stones are officially involved in the cult-left's virtue signalling.

....making Mick one of the biggest hypocrites on the planet, having glorified racism and pedophilia all these years. Now he's lecturing Americans from his pedestal.

You know I love the music, but they are hypocrites.

Mick's next public comment should be an explanation for his name on the Lolita Express flight logs.

Or better yet, just shut up.

I was delighted to see that Colston statue come down. There had been efforts to do it democratically for years and nothing ever came of it. Sometimes direct action is the only way - Bristol police imo made the correct decision not to intervene but I accept others may disagree. Having statues of slave traders in the 21st century is utterly ridiculous and backward. The remaining ones should all be put in a museum and beside each one a text should give the full story about their lives.

I have read people trying to defend Colston because he was also a philanthropist. This would be like defending someone who made millions from selling crack and heroin and then built a youth centre with the profits. The insane levels that some people will go to in order to defend the indefensible is mind boggling.

On the wider issue of where should the line be drawn. I see a huge difference between "dodgy" art and memorials for murderers but accept there will be people who want to go too far. But its a debate that has been long overdue and the sooner it is had the greater the chance of sensible decisions being made.

Covering up or glorifying a bloody past serves no-one. The events of the last few days have been truly historic and in the long run I hope and think society and the world will be a better place for it.

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Kennedy
The Stones are officially involved in the cult-left's virtue signalling.

....making Mick one of the biggest hypocrites on the planet, having glorified racism and pedophilia all these years. Now he's lecturing Americans from his pedestal.

You know I love the music, but they are hypocrites.

Mick's next public comment should be an explanation for his name on the Lolita Express flight logs.

Or better yet, just shut up.

Well as a fan, aren't you buying right in? If you've been that offended lo these many years, why are you still here?

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steffialicia

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Kennedy
The Stones are officially involved in the cult-left's virtue signalling.

....making Mick one of the biggest hypocrites on the planet, having glorified racism and pedophilia all these years. Now he's lecturing Americans from his pedestal.

You know I love the music, but they are hypocrites.

Mick's next public comment should be an explanation for his name on the Lolita Express flight logs.

Or better yet, just shut up.

Well as a fan, aren't you buying right in? If you've been that offended lo these many years, why are you still here?

Do not put words into my mouth. I'm a huge fan of the music and I am not offended whatsoever. What I despise though is Mick's hypocrisy that he thinks he's in a position to lecture anyone after years of contributing the very issues he now claims to stand against. I don't have this psychotic obsession of musicians that leads me to believe they are somehow wiser than me.

I can say with absolute confidence that I have no idea.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-10 22:18 by ryanpow.

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Kennedy

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steffialicia

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Kennedy
The Stones are officially involved in the cult-left's virtue signalling.

....making Mick one of the biggest hypocrites on the planet, having glorified racism and pedophilia all these years. Now he's lecturing Americans from his pedestal.

You know I love the music, but they are hypocrites.

Mick's next public comment should be an explanation for his name on the Lolita Express flight logs.

Or better yet, just shut up.

Well as a fan, aren't you buying right in? If you've been that offended lo these many years, why are you still here?

Do not put words into my mouth. I'm a huge fan of the music and I am not offended whatsoever. What I despise though is Mick's hypocrisy that he thinks he's in a position to lecture anyone after years of contributing the very issues he now claims to stand against. I don't have this psychotic obsession of musicians that leads me to believe they are somehow wiser than me.

I haven't heard what I would consider a "lecture". I read a very nice, thoughtful comment along with a wish for what life can be going forward.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-10 23:35 by steffialicia.

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Kennedy

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steffialicia

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Kennedy
The Stones are officially involved in the cult-left's virtue signalling.

....making Mick one of the biggest hypocrites on the planet, having glorified racism and pedophilia all these years. Now he's lecturing Americans from his pedestal.

You know I love the music, but they are hypocrites.

Mick's next public comment should be an explanation for his name on the Lolita Express flight logs.

Or better yet, just shut up.

Well as a fan, aren't you buying right in? If you've been that offended lo these many years, why are you still here?

Do not put words into my mouth. I'm a huge fan of the music and I am not offended whatsoever. What I despise though is Mick's hypocrisy that he thinks he's in a position to lecture anyone after years of contributing the very issues he now claims to stand against. I don't have this psychotic obsession of musicians that leads me to believe they are somehow wiser than me.

I'd like to remind people again of what Alice Cooper said a while ago about musicians campaigning in politics "we're rockstars, we're supposed to be morons, so don't let us tell you who to vote for".
Ha, I was able to post this before the thread gets closed

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Kingbeebuzz
Latest news from UK.......there is now pressure in Liverpool to have Penny Lane renamed because Penny was a slave trader.

This is madness....what about my rights, my sensibilities.... if it’s gone this far I cannot see The Stones playing Brown Sugar live again which would be particularly sad because right from the start The Stones have done much to support and enable black artistes in the USA. They opened the door in many ways.

There is a Liverpool road called Penny Lane, and there was a Liverpool slave trader named James Penny, but there seems to be some uncertainty about whether the one was named after the other.
I'd be interested to know how many people knew about the existence of James Penny before this question came up. I certainly never knew Penny Lane was named after a person at all. If the name is a genuine cause of offence, it needs to be changed (I'm neither black nor Liverpudlian, so I don't know). But it seems over the top to change it "just in case".

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Kingbeebuzz
One consequence of the BLM protests here in the UK is the removal of historical statues. I just read that HBO in the USA has removed Gone With The Wind from its streaming service.

I wonder if we will ever hear Brown Sugar played live by The Stones again, or indeed ever played on radio ?

I hope that never happens. It’s a great rock song. We could lose so much good music......Sweet Black Angel.....Black Limosine.

What on Earth are you talking about? Black Limo is about a BLACK LIMOUSINE. An automobile. If it was a green limo it would be called Green Limousine.

Brown Sugar... there's nothing in the lyrics that is racial or "racial" regarding being racist or from a racist point of view.

Totally absurd.

If you think these songs are going to disappear then A LOT of music will disappear, including A LOT of rap music.

I like the song "Bitch" does that make me sexist or disrespectful of women?

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Chris Fountain
I like the song "Bitch" does that make me sexist or disrespectful of women?

Heh - maybe! Didn't know you hated female dog!!!

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GasLightStreet

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Chris Fountain
I like the song "Bitch" does that make me sexist or disrespectful of women?

Heh - maybe! Didn't know you hated female dog!!!

Ok LOL I will use a Rockman type sense of humor for kicks -

... only if not in heat.....

Totally agree with you GasLightStreet it is absurd.....thank you for posting.

GreenLady....thank you for your contribution......in the Liverpool museum on slavery down by the river, there is a display of street name signs that are related to slave trade in the city...one of them is Penny Lane and I agree it seems over the top to change it, but that is where some people in the UK (or in the street mobs) are currently thinking.

Thank you to all who have responded to my post re Brown Sugar......there have been interesting views posted.......let’s keep this all civil and polite and Stones related please.

WOOF WOOF ....



ROCKMAN

Upon reflection GasLightStreet, I think if a lot of rap songs disappeared that would be a very good thing. Rap is an appalling noise to me. If rap music did not exist and was wiped out, that would be a good thing.....IMHO.......I am entitled to my view..........but did rap originate as a black American cultural “art”?.....so am I entitled to hold my view that rap is not art but a way for untalented people to get on stage and make money? Many would disagree with me and that is their right but they cannot nor should not change my views.
Which means Brown Sugar should be performed as originally written and if people don’t like it they should not listen to it, they should turn away, they should not destroy it, deny it, hide it or stop others listening to it.

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Chris Fountain

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GasLightStreet

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Chris Fountain
I like the song "Bitch" does that make me sexist or disrespectful of women?

Heh - maybe! Didn't know you hated female dog!!!

Ok LOL I will use a Rockman type sense of humor for kicks -

... only if not in heat.....

LOL!

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Kingbeebuzz
Upon reflection GasLightStreet, I think if a lot of rap songs disappeared that would be a very good thing. Rap is an appalling noise to me. If rap music did not exist and was wiped out, that would be a good thing.....IMHO.......I am entitled to my view..........but did rap originate as a black American cultural “art”?.....so am I entitled to hold my view that rap is not art but a way for untalented people to get on stage and make money? Many would disagree with me and that is their right but they cannot nor should not change my views.
Which means Brown Sugar should be performed as originally written and if people don’t like it they should not listen to it, they should turn away, they should not destroy it, deny it, hide it or stop others listening to it.

Ha ha. I get it. A LOT of it would go away! Holy crap there would hardly be anything left! The hatred spewed in a lot of it is just a great comment on part of that culture. But sometimes it's just posing. It's snowballed itself in its personification and not just the misunderstanding of its culture but the very reason for it to not be interested in - it does't communicate in any across-the-board understandable way. I've listened to some pretty interesting rap, some really bad rap, some really good rap and some really funny rap. But it's so particular and, unfortunately, it's surrounded by forms of it that are angry, which I understand to a point, but it seems there's never anything positive with it.

There is some really good rap out there that I've heard but most of it is now pretty old. I'm not a fan of the genre but some things are pretty cool. I don't think anyone will ever confuse it with "black music", which, of course, to me is blues and funk and jazz and whatever kinds of music played by people playing instruments, musicians; there's no one kind, it's not a brand, it's several genres - it's this simple: a long time ago some dudes sang some songs about being sad, down, treated like crap, heartbreak... and two eras of two genres evolved at the same time:

Country and blues. They're the same damn thing, just one has a beat and one has a twang. It so happens to be that, from what I've seen, a majority of blues was black people and a majority of country was white people.

In New Orleans you just know when you hear something funky (not necessarily "funk music" but music styles with degrees of funk is just a way of knowing what's going on, it's certainly its own language) it's good and it's made by people. It has a certain feel to it, a cadence that is intrinsic as the river. It happens to be made by black people, which, in New Orleans, for most people, anyway, are just people.

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SomeGuy

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Kennedy

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steffialicia

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Kennedy
The Stones are officially involved in the cult-left's virtue signalling.

....making Mick one of the biggest hypocrites on the planet, having glorified racism and pedophilia all these years. Now he's lecturing Americans from his pedestal.

You know I love the music, but they are hypocrites.

Mick's next public comment should be an explanation for his name on the Lolita Express flight logs.

Or better yet, just shut up.

Well as a fan, aren't you buying right in? If you've been that offended lo these many years, why are you still here?

Do not put words into my mouth. I'm a huge fan of the music and I am not offended whatsoever. What I despise though is Mick's hypocrisy that he thinks he's in a position to lecture anyone after years of contributing the very issues he now claims to stand against. I don't have this psychotic obsession of musicians that leads me to believe they are somehow wiser than me.

I'd like to remind people again of what Alice Cooper said a while ago about musicians campaigning in politics "we're rockstars, we're supposed to be morons, so don't let us tell you who to vote for".
Ha, I was able to post this before the thread gets closed

Sad, sad, sad. If the lyrics of Stones songs are so important for anyone to have his/her opinion on the current racist issue, the first thing they should do is to listen/read those lyrics very well before opening their mouths.
Brown Sugar does NOT glorify slavery, Sympathy For The Devil does NOT glorify the devil. However, Sweet Black Angel DOES glorify a great black woman.
There's a lot one can say about Mick or any of the other Stones, but one thing has been clear during all those many decades .... they worshipped (and still do) lots of BLACK musicians and by doing so made these people known to a much wider music loving audience. THAT is the reality when it comes to the Stones. In this sense Mick is surely not a hypocrit, he only is when you put on the wrong glasses.

Georgie48-VERY well stated my friend.

The stones should open with it at their next show and play it at maximum volume.

I detest censorship.

Nate

Nate-Last year going into opening night of the US leg of the No Filter tour there was talk of Brown Sugar being retired. Maybe it was just me, maybe it was because it was opening night, but when they closed the set before Encores, Mick seemed to put a little more umph into the song. I really don't think we need to worry about Brown Sugar going away

I'm sick of it all! Why does everything in our society have to be an issue??? There were no problems 4 months ago. We need to stop this madness. Society is much worse than the pandemic. All go back to work!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-11 00:55 by Chris Fountain.

Yeah hey there was no racism four months ago! What the heck! Madness and so unexpected!

jb