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Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: November 16, 2021 14:32

Gotta say I'm warming up to this release. I'm an "archivist" by nature and always skeptic of hodge-podge releases without proper historical facts, and newly updated songs that should have been left alone. But on the other hand, it's great to hear listenable songs over unfinished outtakes and I have to say they have done a good job at making these songs sound good. Even though you can hear when Mick's vocals are new, they sound fantastic considering his age and fit the songs very well.

Actually, it's very much in the same spirit as the original Tattoo You – selecting great material from the archives and doing a great job with them, making them sound coherent together in the process.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: snoopy2 ()
Date: November 17, 2021 17:00

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dcba
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snoopy2
I meant: Troubles A Comin sounds like a tune the Stones could and should do (to me)
They did do that track back in 1976 : it was titled "Crazy Mama"! winking smiley

Heck, now you've made me go listen to Crazy Mama again..

And thx dandelionpowderman for not going down the path of an argument! I'm constantly almost bailing on this site cuz everything I ask or say is legit and as a fan, and yet words get twisted here..

Back to this release: I've been playing the outtakes constantly, but only this morning caught the line about "posting the pictures of heads of lions online" from It's A Lie. Nothing in the book about it but exactly how long ago did Jagger add the newer lyrics?

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: tomcat2006 ()
Date: November 17, 2021 17:16

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Doxa
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GasLightStreet
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Hairball
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georgelicks
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jp.M
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mailexile67
@Georgelicks

What about TY in the charts?In UK is it fall down from #7 of first week?!

..it seems to me TY expanded is no more in the UK charts....!!...only one week in...!

Down 7-188 on second week in the UK with 800 units, 7,000 copies total.


Quote
georgelicks
Tattoo You on the charts after 2 weeks:

Netherlands: 2-32
Germany: 3-25
Austria: 3-26
Scotland: 6-30
UK: 7-188 (6,200 + 800 - 7,000 total)
Swiss: 8-46
Belgium: 10-45
Spain: 15
USA: 24-out (19,000 + 4,000 - 23,000 total)
Japan: 39-out (2,365 + 400 - 2,800 total)
Australia: 39-out
New Zealand: 39-out
Italy: 44-out
Ireland: 62-out
Canada: 92-out

Over and out...

A shame as Tattoo You Deluxe could have had so much potential as far as sales and longevity, but with very little publicity/promotional effort, it's already soon to be forgotten.
Maybe next will be a live No Filter release...there have been a couple decent shows from this leg of the tour that could be worthy of release, or maybe they can do a compilation of live tunes from the last four years.
Probably a better chance of that happening than the supposed new album...or more likely a 60 and Counting compilation ala 40 Licks or Grrrr with Ghost Town and maybe another new tune added................

It's more likely a reflection, or realistic image, of how X amount of more people are streaming than buying than 10 years ago yet alone 5.

They could've done something similar to The Beatles in the 1990s with their extremely successful anthologies. But no.

The idea of a hard copy for music has basically left the planet. What few there are that are hard copy purchasers, regardless of format, are an absurd ton more fewer than it used to be. The Stones (UMe) are crossing the divide but losing on one end, hard copies, way more than the other - and streaming is barely cents, not dollars, per stream.

It's an outmoded ideal: the big record label paying whatever to the band/artist in return for... not much nowadays. Yet they continue to operate as if people still buy music.


To back up your points here are some cold numbers from last year ('Billboard's US Money Makers: The Top Paid Musicians of 2020') [www.billboard.com]:

-----
34. The Rolling Stones: $5.96M

Last year’s rank: No. 1
Streaming: $2.97M
Sales: $1.8M
Publishing: $1.17M
Touring: $0

The Stones, who were 2019’s top Money Maker with $65 million in take-home pay — 92% of it from touring — placed in the bottom 25% of this ranking without playing a single show in 2020 and releasing just two new tracks, “Living in a Ghost Town” and “Scarlet,” a Goats Head Soup-era recording with Jimmy Page on guitar. They made the cut because the band owns about half of its catalog — the rest belongs to the late Allen B. Klein’s label, ABKCO Music & Records — and collects 60% of its streaming royalties and 40% of the royalties it receives for physical sales. As a result, the 1.24 billion combined streams the act generated in 2020 and the 254,000 albums it sold — slightly more than half of which were higher price-point vinyl copies — accounted for the lion’s share of its income.

-----

Some interesting details there:
- the band actually - and already - gets more money from streaming than sales - almost twice as much!
- they sold 254 000 copies and over a half of it were vinyls! A big amount of them I guess were GOATS HEAD SOUP deluxe units. But 254 000 copies a year - honestly, that's not much.
- the deal they have to collect 60% of the streaming royalties is actually a damn good one.
- that $2.97M from streaming (1.24 billion streams) is actually surprisingly well if compared to the best streaming artists (the hot shots of the day). Drake is number one in that list with his $11.7M (almost 8 billion streams); Taylor Swift is #2 with her 3 billion less streams. I thought the gap would be much bigger, but the old and huge catalogue is a steady streamer I guess.
- just to think of it: just to play one damn concert they get almost the same amount of money than from whole year's income of recorded music. Plus they had a brandnew single and a rather high profile album out.
- remember: this is US market only - to get the worldwide numbers one needs to multiply that by a couple of numbers (3? 4?) I guess.

- Doxa

An interesting read - as always from Doxa.

I'm reading The Dealmaker, a biography about Guy Hands, the private equity entrepreneur who took over (and failed to save) EMI. He writes of having a lunch meeting with Jagger (circa 2010) and telling him that RS records don't sell any more and that the only way they could afford to offer the band more money to stay with EMI is if they licence their music to video games etc. Mick replied that the Stones only make big money these days from touring and that he didn't know how many more of those he'd do, and that the offer wasn't "economically interesting" so the Stones left EMI. Hands says that Jagger is super-switched-on and would make a great CEO (actually, he already is a great CEO, of Rolling Stones Inc").

So it's no surprise to me that we are getting tons of multiple format classic albums and merchandise from them. I do think the Stones could take a leaf out of the Beatles playbook and make more of an effort to ensure they stay famous longer term - e.g. films (Yesterday), documentaries (new Let It Be) to stay in the public eye and appeal to new demographics. With No.9 Carnaby Street it does seem like they are really going for making a new clothing brand, aside from the obvious 1972 Tour type stuff.

On a final note, I'll be so happy if we get to see them touring behind a final new album just one more time, celebrating their 60th anniversary in London next year. One can but be hopeful....

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: November 22, 2021 16:23

Anyone recalls this one released a month ago?

Well, as I looked at Spotify numbers, nobody seems to do. The bonus album seems to be a total failure streamingwise (and the physical product wasn't any big seller either). The earlier relaesed and somehow promoted cuts have some sort of decent streams:

"Living In The Heart of Love": 1,63m
"Trouble's A-Comin": 1,52m

Those are pretty much in line with last year's new GOATS HEAD SOUP cuts: "Criss Cross" (3,07m) and "All The Rage" (2,68m). Much promoted "Scarlet" (all the versions put together: around 7m) did a bit better. (By contrast, "Living In A Ghost Town" has over 45 million streams).

But the rest of it... Within a month we got following stream numbers:

"Come To The Ball": 778k
"DriftAway": 162k
"Start Me Up" (Reggae version): 136k
"Its A Lie": 91k
"Fiji Jim": 110k
"Shame, Shame, Shame": 91k
"Fast Talking, Slow Walking": 88k

Those are simply next to nothing - and the thrill and peak of its first weeks is already gone. I personally find that disappointing, since I think it contains rather good material - but it has no listeners. A great lost bonus album. Probably only die-hards are able to discover the damn thing in the firts place (actually I personally have adviced some of my 'casual' Stones fan friends to give it a listen - some of them not even heard about it ever, and those who had had some strong prejudices 'oh, that's some marginal, rejected stuff' - and all of them were positively surprised how strong and vital the material is.)

I guess it is what it is. Universal surely knows what they are doing and has supposedly figured that the only point that kind of extra material is just helping to sell some more (expensive) physical copies of the deluxe version of TATTOO YOU for hardcore fans and collectors, otherwise it has no any use. It is bit strange that the band - well, mostly Mick that is - actually worked rather hard for the material, but it ends up to have an audience based only on some die-hard fans.

I don't know if the material had been presented differently - like offered in an album of its own, as an alternative for a brandnew Stones album or something - might it have reached more listeners (casual fans or rock music listeners in general). It could be that there will be no interest at all no matter how served.

- Doxa



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-22 16:44 by Doxa.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: bitusa2012 ()
Date: November 22, 2021 16:26

Quote
Doxa
Anyone recalls this one released a month ago?

Well, as I looked at Spotify numbers, nobody seems to do. The bonus album seems to be a total failure. The earlier relaesed and somehow promoted cuts have some sort of decent streams:

"Living In The Heart of Love": 1,63m
"Trouble's A-Comin": 1,52m

Those are pretty much in line with last year's new GOATS HEAD SOUP cuts: "Criss Cross" (3,07m) and "All The Rage" (2,68m). Much promoted "Scarlet" (in all of it version around 7m) did a bit better. (By contrast, "Living In A Ghost Town" has over 45 million streams).

But the rest of it... Within a month we got following stream numbers:

"Come To The Ball": 778k
"DriftAway": 162k
"Start Me Up" (Reggae version): 136k
"Its A Lie": 91k
"Fiji Jim": 110k
"Shame, Shame, Shame": 91k
"Fast Talking, Slow Walking": 88k

Those are simply next to nothing - and the thrill and peak of its first weeks is already gone. I personally find that disappointing, since I think it contains rather good material - but it has no listeners. A great lost bonus album. Probably some of die-hards might even discover the damn thing (actually I personally have adviced some of my 'casual'Stones fans to give it a listen - some of them not even heard about it ever, and those who had had some strong prejudices 'oh, that's some marginal, rejected stuff' - and all of them were positively surprised how strong and vital the material is.)

I guess it is what it is. Universal surely knows they are doing and has supposedly figured that the only point that kind of extra material is just helping to sell some more (expensive) physical copies of the deluxe version of TATTOO YOU for hardcore fans and collectors, otherwise it has no any use. It is bit strange that the band - well, mostly Mick that is - actually worked rather hard for the material, but it ends up to have an audience based only on some die-hard fans.

I don't know if the material had been presented differently - like offered in an album of its own, as an alternative for a brandnew Stones album or something - might have reached more listeners (casual fans or rock music listeners in general). It could be that there will not be interest at all no matter how served.

- Doxa

Or, as I found out strange or wasn’t offered, a DVD of the live show?

Rod

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: georgelicks ()
Date: November 22, 2021 18:12

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Or, as I found out strange or wasn’t offered, a DVD of the live show?

DVD? That's more dead than the physical album, Billboard is not listing the DVD chart for almost 2 years now since the last #1 was selling 300 copies each week and the #15 under 100 copies, and that was 2 years ago.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: WorriedAboutYou ()
Date: November 22, 2021 18:37

The Stones are only #162 in the global artist charts, people just aren't listening to classic heritage rock that much. Even most of the people who go see the Stones live probably wouldn't go near a deluxe reissue with extra tracks, it's a release purely for enthusiasts and hardcore fans.

I don't consider the streaming numbers for the TY deluxe are disappointing, just reflective of the niche content of the release.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 24, 2021 05:45

Quote
Doxa
Anyone recalls this one released a month ago?

Well, as I looked at Spotify numbers, nobody seems to do. The bonus album seems to be a total failure streamingwise (and the physical product wasn't any big seller either). The earlier relaesed and somehow promoted cuts have some sort of decent streams:

"Living In The Heart of Love": 1,63m
"Trouble's A-Comin": 1,52m

Those are pretty much in line with last year's new GOATS HEAD SOUP cuts: "Criss Cross" (3,07m) and "All The Rage" (2,68m). Much promoted "Scarlet" (all the versions put together: around 7m) did a bit better. (By contrast, "Living In A Ghost Town" has over 45 million streams).

But the rest of it... Within a month we got following stream numbers:

"Come To The Ball": 778k
"DriftAway": 162k
"Start Me Up" (Reggae version): 136k
"Its A Lie": 91k
"Fiji Jim": 110k
"Shame, Shame, Shame": 91k
"Fast Talking, Slow Walking": 88k

Those are simply next to nothing - and the thrill and peak of its first weeks is already gone. I personally find that disappointing, since I think it contains rather good material - but it has no listeners. A great lost bonus album. Probably only die-hards are able to discover the damn thing in the firts place (actually I personally have adviced some of my 'casual' Stones fan friends to give it a listen - some of them not even heard about it ever, and those who had had some strong prejudices 'oh, that's some marginal, rejected stuff' - and all of them were positively surprised how strong and vital the material is.)

I guess it is what it is. Universal surely knows what they are doing and has supposedly figured that the only point that kind of extra material is just helping to sell some more (expensive) physical copies of the deluxe version of TATTOO YOU for hardcore fans and collectors, otherwise it has no any use. It is bit strange that the band - well, mostly Mick that is - actually worked rather hard for the material, but it ends up to have an audience based only on some die-hard fans.

I don't know if the material had been presented differently - like offered in an album of its own, as an alternative for a brandnew Stones album or something - might it have reached more listeners (casual fans or rock music listeners in general). It could be that there will be no interest at all no matter how served.

- Doxa

As a Stones fan, I found the stand alone album of the EOMS deluxe disc absolutely worthwhile - I didn't need to buy the (ruined) album album again.

Unfortunately, ha ha, considering your view that "Universal surely knows what they are doing", they don't.

UME or UMG or whatever the @#$%& they're called needs to give a bit more attention to what they're doing ie the Stones:

1. For whatever idiotic reason (uh, "remastering"), some will will buy the album plus extra.

2. With exception to GOATS HEAD SOUP, all other deluxe reissues have been a moot point regarding the original album - people are only paying to get the extra bit. So... offer it exclusively ala EOMS deluxe disc.

3. There is zero reason to not just offer the "deluxe" ie previously unreleased tracks as a stand alone album, period. Other than some knob in some Universal office saying, "If we reissue X with extra tracks, we get more streams from X!"

If Universal had released the TATTOO YOU extras simply as, ha ha, TATTOO YOU TOO, it's likely it would've performed better, whatever "performed" means these days.

Could've been SOME MORE GIRLS.

The other two, well, GHS was different regardless, and the most worthwhile in its entirety. SF... that was a let down strictly in the aspect of extras, of which there, according to... there are plenty.

The Beatles did it right. Not only with the anthology series but the deluxe reissues. Still doing it right.

And for that matter just about any artist/band reissue has been better than anything the Stones have done with Universal.

If the Stones are "protecting" their legacy, they're a bit off about it. The albums don't change. It's not George Lucas. Releasing the extras, which Mick boasted about during the VOODOO sessions, is what's it, yet... very little has happened.

Long live the bootlegs.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: November 24, 2021 06:13

Gave the whole deluxe album a double run through today. Loved it...better the second time. It was the first time I actually listened to it. Just didn't have the time to listen to the whole thing in one sitting.

For me the worst song on the album is Living In The Heart Of Love, which I did listen to upon release. It hasn't aged well over the last 4 weeks.

It's ok, but very lightweight. Too bad they led with this. For me, it's the worst song of all 20. The original album is of course unassailable but most of the second album is actually quite good.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 24, 2021 06:36

Quote
treaclefingers
Gave the whole deluxe album a double run through today. Loved it...better the second time. It was the first time I actually listened to it. Just didn't have the time to listen to the whole thing in one sitting.

For me the worst song on the album is Living In The Heart Of Love, which I did listen to upon release. It hasn't aged well over the last 4 weeks.

It's ok, but very lightweight. Too bad they led with this. For me, it's the worst song of all 20. The original album is of course unassailable but most of the second album is actually quite good.

For once, maybe, Keith's hesitation about something proved true. Living In The Heart Of Love is extremely rambleshacky and obvioulsy a rather bizarre forefather for Luxury.

I had trouble with Living in the Heart of Love at first. Because to me it was still an unfinished work and I said, Ah, I'll never finish it. But then when I heard it back - Mick talked me into it (laughs. And then I got it and I said Yeah, I understand. I think we'll be throwing it in the set sooner or later, as well.

Or never.

[timeisonourside.com]

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: November 24, 2021 06:53

Tattooooo Bonus disc and the Jimmy Reed Rocks ....

best two things for the year ....



ROCKMAN

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: November 24, 2021 13:53

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
treaclefingers
Gave the whole deluxe album a double run through today. Loved it...better the second time. It was the first time I actually listened to it. Just didn't have the time to listen to the whole thing in one sitting.

For me the worst song on the album is Living In The Heart Of Love, which I did listen to upon release. It hasn't aged well over the last 4 weeks.

It's ok, but very lightweight. Too bad they led with this. For me, it's the worst song of all 20. The original album is of course unassailable but most of the second album is actually quite good.

For once, maybe, Keith's hesitation about something proved true. Living In The Heart Of Love is extremely rambleshacky and obvioulsy a rather bizarre forefather for Luxury.

I had trouble with Living in the Heart of Love at first. Because to me it was still an unfinished work and I said, Ah, I'll never finish it. But then when I heard it back - Mick talked me into it (laughs. And then I got it and I said Yeah, I understand. I think we'll be throwing it in the set sooner or later, as well.

Or never.

[timeisonourside.com]

I think "Living In The Heart of Love" is similar to "Criss Cross" (and some other bonus tracks): always liked it very much as a hidden bootleg gem, but when released officially it strangely lost its appeal...

That said, everytime I listen "Criss Cross" or "Heart of Love" I realize why I am destined to be such a big hardcore fanboy of them. There is just something so exciting in that sound of them - that energy, groove, almost chaotic looseness, sexiness - especially during that era, that no any other act even remotely does that to me...

- Doxa

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: guezeg ()
Date: November 24, 2021 18:20

Quote
GasLightStreet

I had trouble with Living in the Heart of Love at first. Because to me it was still an unfinished work and I said, Ah, I'll never finish it.

[timeisonourside.com]

For me that was the real problem in the early 70's. The raw material was as good as ever, but they stopped taking the time needed to polish it.
Imagine what Criss Cross could have been if they had worked it for 3 years, like they did with All Down the Line or Good Times Women/Tumbling Dice ?

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: November 24, 2021 18:29

Quote
Doxa
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
treaclefingers
Gave the whole deluxe album a double run through today. Loved it...better the second time. It was the first time I actually listened to it. Just didn't have the time to listen to the whole thing in one sitting.

For me the worst song on the album is Living In The Heart Of Love, which I did listen to upon release. It hasn't aged well over the last 4 weeks.

It's ok, but very lightweight. Too bad they led with this. For me, it's the worst song of all 20. The original album is of course unassailable but most of the second album is actually quite good.

For once, maybe, Keith's hesitation about something proved true. Living In The Heart Of Love is extremely rambleshacky and obvioulsy a rather bizarre forefather for Luxury.

I had trouble with Living in the Heart of Love at first. Because to me it was still an unfinished work and I said, Ah, I'll never finish it. But then when I heard it back - Mick talked me into it (laughs. And then I got it and I said Yeah, I understand. I think we'll be throwing it in the set sooner or later, as well.

Or never.

[timeisonourside.com]

I think "Living In The Heart of Love" is similar to "Criss Cross" (and some other bonus tracks): always liked it very much as a hidden bootleg gem, but when released officially it strangely lost its appeal...

That said, everytime I listen "Criss Cross" or "Heart of Love" I realize why I am destined to be such a big hardcore fanboy of them. There is just something so exciting in that sound of them - that energy, groove, almost chaotic looseness, sexiness - especially during that era, that no any other act even remotely does that to me...

- Doxa

That's funny...I actually completely love Criss Cross. For whatever 'unfinishedness' there is that unbelievably great groove.

Living in the Heart of Love is the Stones doing their damnedest to pump life into a pretty boring song. They almost achieve their goal, but not really.

And I don't think a brighter shade of lipstick would have for made a prettier pig.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: retired_dog ()
Date: November 24, 2021 20:36

Quote
guezeg
Quote
GasLightStreet

I had trouble with Living in the Heart of Love at first. Because to me it was still an unfinished work and I said, Ah, I'll never finish it.

[timeisonourside.com]

For me that was the real problem in the early 70's. The raw material was as good as ever, but they stopped taking the time needed to polish it.
Imagine what Criss Cross could have been if they had worked it for 3 years, like they did with All Down the Line or Good Times Women/Tumbling Dice ?

But one could also say that with All Down The Line or Good Time Woman - Tumbling Dice they somehow found the right angle to make them work and for other stuff they may have tried, listened again and again, but nothing came up that convinced them to work further with said material. Creativity does not mean that if you only work long enough, you necessarily come up with great results. You can't force creativity. And there's also new song ideas coming up all the time so it's no wonder why certain stuff that's stuck somewhere remains stuck somewhere.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 25, 2021 05:47

Criss Cross has that sound that is GOATS HEAD SOUP.

The TY deluxe album... no cohesiveness to the sound ie... TATTOO YOU. Not that it matters now. Within the context of TY there's no noticeable jumps but with the extra TY deluxe... glaringly and blaringly obvious.

But that doesn't have any influence on streams or sales. TY was such a big album and greatly respected. Maybe just that many people aren't paying attention.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: November 25, 2021 17:24

Quote
GasLightStreet
Criss Cross has that sound that is GOATS HEAD SOUP.

The TY deluxe album... no cohesiveness to the sound ie... TATTOO YOU. Not that it matters now. Within the context of TY there's no noticeable jumps but with the extra TY deluxe... glaringly and blaringly obvious.

But that doesn't have any influence on streams or sales. TY was such a big album and greatly respected. Maybe just that many people aren't paying attention.

The deluxe part of the album is a pretty good collection of songs, but in no way it's own album. I recall you don't like the Some Girls 'deluxe' album (unless I'm misremembering), and we can disagree on that, but in itself and by contrast could have been an excellent separate release as it has that "cohesiveness to the sound" that you referred to.

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: November 26, 2021 03:19

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
GasLightStreet
Criss Cross has that sound that is GOATS HEAD SOUP.

The TY deluxe album... no cohesiveness to the sound ie... TATTOO YOU. Not that it matters now. Within the context of TY there's no noticeable jumps but with the extra TY deluxe... glaringly and blaringly obvious.

But that doesn't have any influence on streams or sales. TY was such a big album and greatly respected. Maybe just that many people aren't paying attention.

The deluxe part of the album is a pretty good collection of songs, but in no way it's own album. I recall you don't like the Some Girls 'deluxe' album (unless I'm misremembering), and we can disagree on that, but in itself and by contrast could have been an excellent separate release as it has that "cohesiveness to the sound" that you referred to.

You're correct. That SG extra could've been rightfully so its own album.

I thought the SG extra was weak, as you do remember, ha haaaaaa.

I dug No Spare Parts, Do You Think, So Young (although completely avoidable), We Had It All, Tallahassee (not from SG, goddammit), Love You and You Win Again but overall it was just weak compared to what, even with TY2, still leftovers.

It's astounding, really, how they just don't care!

Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by: Snab ()
Date: November 26, 2021 18:32

Currently 40% off at uDiscover Music.

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