Tell Me :
Talk
Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.
Neither do I. I want to say that these songs chosen by DP are a great, organic whole, whereas with some of the new songs you have more the impression of an unfinished, fragmentary torso.
Sad thing my ears don't need to see anything 2009 remaster desaster -> 2021 remaster even worse. My hearing was better 30 years ago so I may remember the CBS-CDs a little to good.
Who are you anyway, and how do you know Remco?
Mathijs
I have given a listen to the Lost and Found disc several times now. As a whole, I would rate it as 7/10 (at best). There is nothing on the nine tracks that stands out or grabs me. From my perspective, the best disc of outtakes/rarities that the Stones have released thus far is the bonus disc featured on Some Girls. I would even go so far and argue that the quality of tunes on the bonus disc of Some Girls (Claudine, Do You Think I Really Care, We Had It All, I Love You Too Much, etc) holds up quite well alongside the original release.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-28 17:04 by Sighunt.
I'll give Mick the last word on this..."sometimes I wonder why, you do these things to me".
However, the tool is useful if one wants to compare different mastering in a kind of independent way. Because all those audiophile 'bright sound, open sound, breezy sound etc.' are very different for different system and humans. Some users of this forum found 2009 remaster sound good
.
PS. Last weekend I had a ride on suburban train. I had digital files from Tattoo You ripped to mp3 and loaded to Samsung smartphone. I used cheap JBL Tune 500 headphones. Sure, it was necessary to lower the volume for original album and bonus tracks, they are too loud. In these conditions they sound not that drastically bad. But it does not mean that it is possible to call this remaster as an acceptable one. Live portion was more or less OK from the start, not much different from other recent From The Vault releases.
Hey, thanks a bundle Mathis, great stuff. You're a brick.
It's a Lie?
I do hear a bit of drum treatment ( like on She's So Cold) on that so it could be
1979 after all? In which case a much better ER track than some released on that album, imo.
So "is it any wonder that we fuss and fight?"
- Doxa
I would skip IORR and, if I remember correctly, Exile (a capped off SV)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-28 22:32 by maumau.
Sticky Fingers I a bit thin on bass
EOMS, GHS and IORR are a bit muddy. EOMS has a bug - volume drop in vocal in Sweet Virginia.
The rest are perfectly OK.
Thank you for the info!
So I guess for these ones it should be better to try the virgin mixes. Am I correct?
To make this statement clear - here are pictures for illustration. This is not my ears, this is audio-analysis tool. Waveforms expanded. Start Me Up, a peak at ~10 sec into the song, same area for different mastering.
Start Me Up, 1986 CBS CD
Start Me Up, 2011 Japanese flat transfer
These waveforms look similar.
Start Me Up, 1994 Virgin CD
Peaks have flat tops. They are 'shaved' by clipping. Flat top = distortion.
You can try other place of this track or different songs from different Virgin CD (you name it...). Almost every loudest peaks on all Virgin CDs are shaved like this. You can see it yourself in Sound Forge or Audacity.
I'm your new friend, please share the other two reggae versions of SMU, I know you've got them. Everybody knows Remco, a true legend.
At least you haven't denied yet.
Well.
Since you brought it up... at the time no one knew that TATTOO YOU was an album of "old rejects" so they would not've looked desperate had they done another one of that sort - and there's no way ANY of us would know otherwise at the time yet alone years, regardless of this 2021 release, considering nothing has ever been said of what else, if they did, like leftovers from the IORR sessions, that Kimsey/Jagger worked on yet alone what else Kimsey found that was offered up on top, between the GHS and ER sessions, of what was worked on/could've been worked on/was tossed aside. And that has zero to do with a "big single", especially since Keith thought Start Me Up sucked:
(T)here's still loads (from those sessions). I mean, we could get another album out of that bunch. But that's an advantage you don't think about, really, with a band that goes on for a long time. One way or another, you end up with a backlog of really good stuff that, for one reason or another, you didn't get the chance to finish or put out because it was the wrong tempo or too long - purely technical reasons, you know? Sometimes we write our songs in installments - just get the melody and the music, and we'll cut the tracks and write the words later. That way, the actual tracks have matured, just like wine - you just leave it in the cellar for a bit, and it comes out a little better a few years later. It's stupid to LEAVE all that great stuff just for want of finishing it off and getting it together.
- Keith Richards, 1981
[timeisonourside.com]
Then you must not be a fan of any Stones album from 1978 onward.
Define "arbitrary chord progressions". SFTD has 2 "chord progressions". Jumpin' Jack Flash and Street Fighting Man have 2 "chord progressions". Gimme Shelter has 1.5 "chord progressions". Tumbling Dice has 2 "chord progressions. There are a lot more.
Strange enough as it is with anything regarding the Stones can be, some of their songs that have more than 2 "chord progressions", people don't seem to like and/or care for.
You defy what you get at: it was recorded in 1977, the same session as Miss You.
Have you counted how many songs on SG have the China crash? What about ER and TY?
The tone of the toms gives away when the TY songs were recorded. The China crash is an added plus to when those songs were cut.
You're lost about that critique. The ears don't lie about brickwalled remasters.
Which the entire point you seem to have missed: LISTENING.
This is starting to creep in with some people and it makes zero sense:
TATTOO YOU 2021 is not a new mix. It's not a remix. It's not a different mix.
That one accolade belongs to GOATS HEAD SOUP 2020.
Remix and remaster are just as different as a turtle and a cotton rug.
Just out of curiosity, does a mars bar factor into this equation at all?
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
Testify
()
Date: October 28, 2021 15:47
I wanted to take some time, before making a judgment, well I have to say I liked it a lot.
The best things for me are:
- Troubles A 'Comin
- Shame Shame Shame
- Drift Away (I've always loved this cover, which is superior to others
versions, nice text).
- Fiji Jim (fantastic song, great lyrics, fantastic guitars above all
the slide Ronnie I guess ...)
- It's a Lie
- Come to the Ball
- Fast Talking Slow Walking (captivating ballad)
- Start Me Up (Early Version) (I love this version, it's great and
brilliant, many of my friends say it's better than the original version)
Nice ... the only song that leaves me a little cold è Living in the Heart of Love.
The best things for me are:
- Troubles A 'Comin
- Shame Shame Shame
- Drift Away (I've always loved this cover, which is superior to others
versions, nice text).
- Fiji Jim (fantastic song, great lyrics, fantastic guitars above all
the slide Ronnie I guess ...)
- It's a Lie
- Come to the Ball
- Fast Talking Slow Walking (captivating ballad)
- Start Me Up (Early Version) (I love this version, it's great and
brilliant, many of my friends say it's better than the original version)
Nice ... the only song that leaves me a little cold è Living in the Heart of Love.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: October 28, 2021 16:28
Quote
gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.
Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
RobertJohnson
()
Date: October 28, 2021 16:35
Quote
bitusa2012Quote
RobertJohnsonQuote
DandelionPowderman
You mean like Rocks Off, All Down The Line, Tumbling Dice and Brown Sugar?
It's what they do with those chords that matter. Personally, I think there are exciting things going on in Living In The Heart Of Love and Come To The Ball as well.
And standard r&b, rockabilly and rock'n'roll chord patterns never get old for my ears, when executed brilliantly - like on some of the songs here (It's A Lie, Fiji Jim).
Me
These songs have an architecture held together by melody, rhythm and an inner necessity.
WTF is an “inner necessity”? Sorry, I’ve never heard that musical term
Neither do I. I want to say that these songs chosen by DP are a great, organic whole, whereas with some of the new songs you have more the impression of an unfinished, fragmentary torso.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
glimmertwin1
()
Date: October 28, 2021 16:39
Quote
LeonidPQuote
gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.
Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.
Sad thing my ears don't need to see anything 2009 remaster desaster -> 2021 remaster even worse. My hearing was better 30 years ago so I may remember the CBS-CDs a little to good.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: October 28, 2021 16:40
Quote
ZindyQuote
MathijsQuote
ZindyQuote
Mathijs
...The backing track of this new 2021 release of SMU is available in tape traders circles...
Stop pretending you don't have it. When have you ever shared anything here, you can do it now. Or tell your friend Remco to share it.
Remco hasn't taken any orders from me in 25 years.
MathijsQuote
GasLightStreet
...
Here.
...
GasLightStreet, not that well-known one. Two more reggae versions exist, one of them turned into the 2021 Early Version. Mathijs elegantly avoided the subject (he has both versions). Maybe you can ask Mathijs if he would like to share, obviously I didn't succeed.
Who are you anyway, and how do you know Remco?
Mathijs
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
Sighunt
()
Date: October 28, 2021 17:02
Quote
bitusa2012
The more I listen, and I am listening often, the more and more I reckon the Lost and Found disc would have made a great mid 80’s Stones album in its full without the alternate Start me Up. It’s fantastic.
The best disc of outtakes The Stones have released on any of their Deluxe issues. No real dud.
The ONLY issue, has it been released as an album after the Start me Up / Tattoo You juggernaut, would have been the lack of a big hit single on it.
I have given a listen to the Lost and Found disc several times now. As a whole, I would rate it as 7/10 (at best). There is nothing on the nine tracks that stands out or grabs me. From my perspective, the best disc of outtakes/rarities that the Stones have released thus far is the bonus disc featured on Some Girls. I would even go so far and argue that the quality of tunes on the bonus disc of Some Girls (Claudine, Do You Think I Really Care, We Had It All, I Love You Too Much, etc) holds up quite well alongside the original release.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-28 17:04 by Sighunt.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
TheGreek
()
Date: October 28, 2021 17:24
Sorry to hear that . Mine came from Walmart who I purchase most of my media from . Never Amazon for the reason you described as I have heard many others with the same concern .Quote
ironbellyMine already went back for replacement. The outer box was damaged upon arrival. Very poor packaging by amazon and, apparently, reckless delivery by post office. Not to mention a bit stupid construction of the box itself.Quote
TheGreek
I just got mine yesterday in the mail , and on the shelf it goes along with the previous Bigger Bang Box set . Unopened , some day maybe ?
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: October 28, 2021 17:39
Quote
TheGreekSorry to hear that . Mine came from Walmart who I purchase most of my media from . Never Amazon for the reason you described as I have heard many others with the same concern .Quote
ironbellyMine already went back for replacement. The outer box was damaged upon arrival. Very poor packaging by amazon and, apparently, reckless delivery by post office. Not to mention a bit stupid construction of the box itself.Quote
TheGreek
I just got mine yesterday in the mail , and on the shelf it goes along with the previous Bigger Bang Box set . Unopened , some day maybe ?
I'll give Mick the last word on this..."sometimes I wonder why, you do these things to me".
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
ironbelly
()
Date: October 28, 2021 17:43
Second this. You do not need audio analysis tool to tell the remaster is bad.Quote
glimmertwin1Quote
LeonidPQuote
gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.
Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.
Sad thing my ears don't need to see anything 2009 remaster desaster -> 2021 remaster even worse. My hearing was better 30 years ago so I may remember the CBS-CDs a little to good.
However, the tool is useful if one wants to compare different mastering in a kind of independent way. Because all those audiophile 'bright sound, open sound, breezy sound etc.' are very different for different system and humans. Some users of this forum found 2009 remaster sound good
.PS. Last weekend I had a ride on suburban train. I had digital files from Tattoo You ripped to mp3 and loaded to Samsung smartphone. I used cheap JBL Tune 500 headphones. Sure, it was necessary to lower the volume for original album and bonus tracks, they are too loud. In these conditions they sound not that drastically bad
. But it does not mean that it is possible to call this remaster as an acceptable one. Live portion was more or less OK from the start, not much different from other recent From The Vault releases.Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
ironbelly
()
Date: October 28, 2021 17:47
Unfortunately, amazon in many cases is the only cheap option in EU. Most of local retailers had the box priced 135-150€ vs. 109€ on amazon. So, you know...Quote
TheGreekSorry to hear that . Mine came from Walmart who I purchase most of my media from . Never Amazon for the reason you described as I have heard many others with the same concern .Quote
ironbellyMine already went back for replacement. The outer box was damaged upon arrival. Very poor packaging by amazon and, apparently, reckless delivery by post office. Not to mention a bit stupid construction of the box itself.Quote
TheGreek
I just got mine yesterday in the mail , and on the shelf it goes along with the previous Bigger Bang Box set . Unopened , some day maybe ?
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
Four Stone Walls
()
Date: October 28, 2021 18:03
Quote
MathijsQuote
Four Stone WallsQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
DandelionPowderman
According to Kimsey this version is from the BAB-sessions.
That's not about the deluxe version, though, it simply says 'first reggae version' or whatever as in that's when they started working on it. This is an earlier take than the LP take from 1977.
Have you read the book that came with the superdeluxe-set? Kimsey is saying that this version, on LP2, is indeed from the BAB-sessions. I'll see if I can dig up a pic of the quote later.
Kinsey says it's from 1975 sessions. Mathis says no such version now exists and all(?) versions we have are from '78. ( Why not '77 Mathis?)
So who is right? I think Kinsey.
I noticed from the Trouble's a Coming thread that Mathis is certain it is from 1978 ( again, why not '77?) because of Keith's guitar and amp set-up. Sounds knowledgeable and plausible. Mathis knows his equipment stuff.
But Kinsey says it's from '79 Bahamas sessions.
To me TAC does not have the same vibe or sound as other ER tracks so. I have, until now at least been inclined to believe Mathis.
Who is right?
In my opinion -and it is indeed more of an educated guess - there are sonic differences in the various recording sessions. In 1977 Charlie still used his black Gretsch set, in February 1978 he added the China crash, from April 1978 on he changed to the maple Gretsch set. Wyman used his Ampeg London bass for early 1977 sessions and the long scale Travis Bean for the remainder of the sessions, and in late January or early February 1978 received the short scale Travis Bean. 1977 was a mix of Boogie and Fender amps with various guitars, whereas from 1979 on especially Keith used the Boogie MKI and the Tele Custom almost exclusively. Pathe Marconi has a denser mix, with less separation between the guitars (almost a mono sound, like on Imagination), and 1979 has a very clear and crisp sound, with a cracking snare and high pitched Tele bends.
There's more to it -but in general you can get a feel for when something was recorded. So about Start Me up: that really sounds like the old black Gretsch set, no China, Bill is playing the short scale Travis Bean. Guitar amps are Boogie. This leads to a most likely recording date of February 1978.
They could have played it for sure in 1975, but any of the 1975 versions simply is not available to us.
Mathijs
Hey, thanks a bundle Mathis, great stuff. You're a brick.
It's a Lie?
I do hear a bit of drum treatment ( like on She's So Cold) on that so it could be
1979 after all? In which case a much better ER track than some released on that album, imo.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 28, 2021 21:11
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
TheGreekSorry to hear that . Mine came from Walmart who I purchase most of my media from . Never Amazon for the reason you described as I have heard many others with the same concern .Quote
ironbellyMine already went back for replacement. The outer box was damaged upon arrival. Very poor packaging by amazon and, apparently, reckless delivery by post office. Not to mention a bit stupid construction of the box itself.Quote
TheGreek
I just got mine yesterday in the mail , and on the shelf it goes along with the previous Bigger Bang Box set . Unopened , some day maybe ?
I'll give Mick the last word on this..."sometimes I wonder why, you do these things to me".
So "is it any wonder that we fuss and fight?"
- Doxa
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
micha063
()
Date: October 28, 2021 22:16
I have decided to buy the old CBS mix from the 80s. I don't like the new mixes at all. The other stuff is available as MP3. So I'm happy.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
maumau
()
Date: October 28, 2021 22:28
Quote
micha063
I have decided to buy the old CBS mix from the 80s. I don't like the new mixes at all. The other stuff is available as MP3. So I'm happy.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.
I would skip IORR and, if I remember correctly, Exile (a capped off SV)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-28 22:32 by maumau.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
ironbelly
()
Date: October 28, 2021 22:28
Not all old CBS CDs are equally good.Quote
micha063
I have decided to buy the old CBS mix from the 80s. I don't like the new mixes at all. The other stuff is available as MP3. So I'm happy.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.
Sticky Fingers I a bit thin on bass
EOMS, GHS and IORR are a bit muddy. EOMS has a bug - volume drop in vocal in Sweet Virginia.
The rest are perfectly OK.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
micha063
()
Date: October 28, 2021 23:18
Quote
ironbellyNot all old CBS CDs are equally good.Quote
micha063
I have decided to buy the old CBS mix from the 80s. I don't like the new mixes at all. The other stuff is available as MP3. So I'm happy.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.
Sticky Fingers I a bit thin on bass
EOMS, GHS and IORR are a bit muddy. EOMS has a bug - volume drop in vocal in Sweet Virginia.
The rest are perfectly OK.
Thank you for the info!
So I guess for these ones it should be better to try the virgin mixes. Am I correct?
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
ironbelly
()
Date: October 28, 2021 23:20
Yes.Quote
micha063Quote
ironbellyNot all old CBS CDs are equally good.Quote
micha063
I have decided to buy the old CBS mix from the 80s. I don't like the new mixes at all. The other stuff is available as MP3. So I'm happy.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.
Sticky Fingers I a bit thin on bass
EOMS, GHS and IORR are a bit muddy. EOMS has a bug - volume drop in vocal in Sweet Virginia.
The rest are perfectly OK.
Thank you for the info!
So I guess for these ones it should be better to try the virgin mixes. Am I correct?
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
micha063
()
Date: October 28, 2021 23:29
So B&B, Love You Live, Some Girls, Emotional Rescue, Tattoo You and Undercover seem to be the good ones of the CBS mixes,
I just bought Love You Live on Ebay and wait for delivery. I still have all the vinyl releases and about 15 years ago I made a digital recording of my Love You Live record and some others.
I just bought Love You Live on Ebay and wait for delivery. I still have all the vinyl releases and about 15 years ago I made a digital recording of my Love You Live record and some others.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
bakersfield
()
Date: October 28, 2021 23:54
To my ears I'd the Virgin 70's catalogue sounds best and the 2009 remasters the worst.
For the 60's Stones CD's, I use the DSD reissues; a good step up in quality for a small outlay.
For the 60's Stones CD's, I use the DSD reissues; a good step up in quality for a small outlay.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
shadooby
()
Date: October 29, 2021 01:07
Yup, for 71-81 it's the 94 Virgins...60's it's the 2002's. Hands down.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
masoudi
()
Date: October 29, 2021 01:15
The Japanese SACDs of the 70s albums are top notch for me. I got them all when they came out a few years ago. Virgin mixes come behind them.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
ironbelly
()
Date: October 29, 2021 01:48
Quote
bakersfield
To my ears I'd the Virgin 70's catalogue sounds best and the 2009 remasters the worst.
For the 60's Stones CD's, I use the DSD reissues; a good step up in quality for a small outlay.
I am a minority here but I do not like Virgin remaster. Because it sounds a bit digital and harsh. Also, it suffers from some clipping. Actually, almost every peak that approaches the maximum is 'shaved'. Maybe it is not that important, maybe it adds some 'aggression' to the sound but Virgin CDs just does not sound right for me (sure as a completist I have them in collection).Quote
shadooby
Yup, for 71-81 it's the 94 Virgins...60's it's the 2002's. Hands down.
To make this statement clear - here are pictures for illustration. This is not my ears, this is audio-analysis tool. Waveforms expanded. Start Me Up, a peak at ~10 sec into the song, same area for different mastering.
Start Me Up, 1986 CBS CD
Start Me Up, 2011 Japanese flat transfer
These waveforms look similar.
Start Me Up, 1994 Virgin CD
Peaks have flat tops. They are 'shaved' by clipping. Flat top = distortion.
You can try other place of this track or different songs from different Virgin CD (you name it...). Almost every loudest peaks on all Virgin CDs are shaved like this. You can see it yourself in Sound Forge or Audacity.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
Zindy
()
Date: October 29, 2021 02:56
Quote
MathijsQuote
ZindyQuote
MathijsQuote
ZindyQuote
Mathijs
...The backing track of this new 2021 release of SMU is available in tape traders circles...
Stop pretending you don't have it. When have you ever shared anything here, you can do it now. Or tell your friend Remco to share it.
Remco hasn't taken any orders from me in 25 years.
MathijsQuote
GasLightStreet
...
Here.
...
GasLightStreet, not that well-known one. Two more reggae versions exist, one of them turned into the 2021 Early Version. Mathijs elegantly avoided the subject (he has both versions). Maybe you can ask Mathijs if he would like to share, obviously I didn't succeed.
Who are you anyway, and how do you know Remco?
Mathijs
I'm your new friend, please share the other two reggae versions of SMU, I know you've got them. Everybody knows Remco, a true legend.
At least you haven't denied yet.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: October 29, 2021 08:14
Quote
DoxaQuote
bitusa2012Quote
treaclefingersQuote
bitusa2012
The more I listen, and I am listening often, the more and more I reckon the Lost and Found disc would have made a great mid 80’s Stones album in its full without the alternate Start me Up. It’s fantastic.
The best disc of outtakes The Stones have released on any of their Deluxe issues. No real dud.
The ONLY issue, has it been released as an album after the Start me Up / Tattoo You juggernaut, would have been the lack of a big hit single on it.
That didn't curtail any of their other subsequent releases!
True but I think they may have thought that She Was Hot and/or Undercover itself would be big. Especially the former which has a similar sonic sound to it as Start me Up. To my ears anyway.
Yeah, at the moment I think that this LOST & FOUND is the best Stones album since... yeah.. TATTOO YOU, but the idea that it would have been released after TATTOO YOU instead of, say, UNDERCOVER or DIRTY WORK... Well, that's a fascinating idea, since technically that would have been possible, but I don't think it would have worked. I mean, now it might sound being a graet album relaesed in mid-80's, but at the time back then I don't think it would have been hailed that much.
First of all, the idea of them releasing just another album of old rejects again would have made them look a bit desperate and back then they still were considered largely a living and breathing band that supposed to create something novel. TATTOO YOU was a happy expection to a rule, but another sort of similar album would have looked pretty bad for their image as a creative unit.
Well.
Since you brought it up... at the time no one knew that TATTOO YOU was an album of "old rejects" so they would not've looked desperate had they done another one of that sort - and there's no way ANY of us would know otherwise at the time yet alone years, regardless of this 2021 release, considering nothing has ever been said of what else, if they did, like leftovers from the IORR sessions, that Kimsey/Jagger worked on yet alone what else Kimsey found that was offered up on top, between the GHS and ER sessions, of what was worked on/could've been worked on/was tossed aside. And that has zero to do with a "big single", especially since Keith thought Start Me Up sucked:
(T)here's still loads (from those sessions). I mean, we could get another album out of that bunch. But that's an advantage you don't think about, really, with a band that goes on for a long time. One way or another, you end up with a backlog of really good stuff that, for one reason or another, you didn't get the chance to finish or put out because it was the wrong tempo or too long - purely technical reasons, you know? Sometimes we write our songs in installments - just get the melody and the music, and we'll cut the tracks and write the words later. That way, the actual tracks have matured, just like wine - you just leave it in the cellar for a bit, and it comes out a little better a few years later. It's stupid to LEAVE all that great stuff just for want of finishing it off and getting it together.
- Keith Richards, 1981
[timeisonourside.com]
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: October 29, 2021 08:24
Quote
RobertJohnson
I have listened to the new songs several times now. The highlights are undoubtedly the cover versions. Of the original compositions, only Fast Talking Slow Walking is worth mentioning. This is the only self-composed song that has a certain musical architecture. Everything else are arbitrary chord progressions that could be different, and a lot of Jagger noise that could be different, too.
Then you must not be a fan of any Stones album from 1978 onward.
Define "arbitrary chord progressions". SFTD has 2 "chord progressions". Jumpin' Jack Flash and Street Fighting Man have 2 "chord progressions". Gimme Shelter has 1.5 "chord progressions". Tumbling Dice has 2 "chord progressions. There are a lot more.
Strange enough as it is with anything regarding the Stones can be, some of their songs that have more than 2 "chord progressions", people don't seem to like and/or care for.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: October 29, 2021 08:31
Quote
MathijsQuote
Four Stone WallsQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
DandelionPowderman
According to Kimsey this version is from the BAB-sessions.
That's not about the deluxe version, though, it simply says 'first reggae version' or whatever as in that's when they started working on it. This is an earlier take than the LP take from 1977.
Have you read the book that came with the superdeluxe-set? Kimsey is saying that this version, on LP2, is indeed from the BAB-sessions. I'll see if I can dig up a pic of the quote later.
Kinsey says it's from 1975 sessions. Mathis says no such version now exists and all(?) versions we have are from '78. ( Why not '77 Mathis?)
So who is right? I think Kinsey.
I noticed from the Trouble's a Coming thread that Mathis is certain it is from 1978 ( again, why not '77?) because of Keith's guitar and amp set-up. Sounds knowledgeable and plausible. Mathis knows his equipment stuff.
But Kinsey says it's from '79 Bahamas sessions.
To me TAC does not have the same vibe or sound as other ER tracks so. I have, until now at least been inclined to believe Mathis.
Who is right?
In my opinion -and it is indeed more of an educated guess - there are sonic differences in the various recording sessions. In 1977 Charlie still used his black Gretsch set, in February 1978 he added the China crash, from April 1978 on he changed to the maple Gretsch set. Wyman used his Ampeg London bass for early 1977 sessions and the long scale Travis Bean for the remainder of the sessions, and in late January or early February 1978 received the short scale Travis Bean. 1977 was a mix of Boogie and Fender amps with various guitars, whereas from 1979 on especially Keith used the Boogie MKI and the Tele Custom almost exclusively. Pathe Marconi has a denser mix, with less separation between the guitars (almost a mono sound, like on Imagination), and 1979 has a very clear and crisp sound, with a cracking snare and high pitched Tele bends.
There's more to it -but in general you can get a feel for when something was recorded. So about Start Me up: that really sounds like the old black Gretsch set, no China, Bill is playing the short scale Travis Bean. Guitar amps are Boogie. This leads to a most likely recording date of February 1978.
They could have played it for sure in 1975, but any of the 1975 versions simply is not available to us.
Mathijs
You defy what you get at: it was recorded in 1977, the same session as Miss You.
Have you counted how many songs on SG have the China crash? What about ER and TY?
The tone of the toms gives away when the TY songs were recorded. The China crash is an added plus to when those songs were cut.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: October 29, 2021 08:34
Quote
LeonidPQuote
gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.
Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.
You're lost about that critique. The ears don't lie about brickwalled remasters.
Which the entire point you seem to have missed: LISTENING.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
GasLightStreet
()
Date: October 29, 2021 08:40
Quote
micha063
I have decided to buy the old CBS mix from the 80s. I don't like the new mixes at all. The other stuff is available as MP3. So I'm happy.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.
This is starting to creep in with some people and it makes zero sense:
TATTOO YOU 2021 is not a new mix. It's not a remix. It's not a different mix.
That one accolade belongs to GOATS HEAD SOUP 2020.
Remix and remaster are just as different as a turtle and a cotton rug.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: October 29, 2021 08:57
Quote
GasLightStreetQuote
micha063
I have decided to buy the old CBS mix from the 80s. I don't like the new mixes at all. The other stuff is available as MP3. So I'm happy.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.
This is starting to creep in with some people and it makes zero sense:
TATTOO YOU 2021 is not a new mix. It's not a remix. It's not a different mix.
That one accolade belongs to GOATS HEAD SOUP 2020.
Remix and remaster are just as different as a turtle and a cotton rug.
Just out of curiosity, does a mars bar factor into this equation at all?
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