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gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.
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bitusa2012Quote
RobertJohnsonQuote
DandelionPowderman
You mean like Rocks Off, All Down The Line, Tumbling Dice and Brown Sugar?
It's what they do with those chords that matter. Personally, I think there are exciting things going on in Living In The Heart Of Love and Come To The Ball as well.
And standard r&b, rockabilly and rock'n'roll chord patterns never get old for my ears, when executed brilliantly - like on some of the songs here (It's A Lie, Fiji Jim).
Me
These songs have an architecture held together by melody, rhythm and an inner necessity.
WTF is an “inner necessity”? Sorry, I’ve never heard that musical term
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LeonidPQuote
gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.
Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.
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ZindyQuote
MathijsQuote
ZindyQuote
Mathijs
...The backing track of this new 2021 release of SMU is available in tape traders circles...
Stop pretending you don't have it. When have you ever shared anything here, you can do it now. Or tell your friend Remco to share it.
Remco hasn't taken any orders from me in 25 years.
MathijsQuote
GasLightStreet
...
Here.
...
GasLightStreet, not that well-known one. Two more reggae versions exist, one of them turned into the 2021 Early Version. Mathijs elegantly avoided the subject (he has both versions). Maybe you can ask Mathijs if he would like to share, obviously I didn't succeed.
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bitusa2012
The more I listen, and I am listening often, the more and more I reckon the Lost and Found disc would have made a great mid 80’s Stones album in its full without the alternate Start me Up. It’s fantastic.
The best disc of outtakes The Stones have released on any of their Deluxe issues. No real dud.
The ONLY issue, has it been released as an album after the Start me Up / Tattoo You juggernaut, would have been the lack of a big hit single on it.
Sorry to hear that . Mine came from Walmart who I purchase most of my media from . Never Amazon for the reason you described as I have heard many others with the same concern .Quote
ironbellyMine already went back for replacement. The outer box was damaged upon arrival. Very poor packaging by amazon and, apparently, reckless delivery by post office. Not to mention a bit stupid construction of the box itself.Quote
TheGreek
I just got mine yesterday in the mail , and on the shelf it goes along with the previous Bigger Bang Box set . Unopened , some day maybe ?
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TheGreekSorry to hear that . Mine came from Walmart who I purchase most of my media from . Never Amazon for the reason you described as I have heard many others with the same concern .Quote
ironbellyMine already went back for replacement. The outer box was damaged upon arrival. Very poor packaging by amazon and, apparently, reckless delivery by post office. Not to mention a bit stupid construction of the box itself.Quote
TheGreek
I just got mine yesterday in the mail , and on the shelf it goes along with the previous Bigger Bang Box set . Unopened , some day maybe ?
Second this. You do not need audio analysis tool to tell the remaster is bad.Quote
glimmertwin1Quote
LeonidPQuote
gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.
Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.
Sad thing my ears don't need to see anything 2009 remaster desaster -> 2021 remaster even worse. My hearing was better 30 years ago so I may remember the CBS-CDs a little to good.
Unfortunately, amazon in many cases is the only cheap option in EU. Most of local retailers had the box priced 135-150€ vs. 109€ on amazon. So, you know...Quote
TheGreekSorry to hear that . Mine came from Walmart who I purchase most of my media from . Never Amazon for the reason you described as I have heard many others with the same concern .Quote
ironbellyMine already went back for replacement. The outer box was damaged upon arrival. Very poor packaging by amazon and, apparently, reckless delivery by post office. Not to mention a bit stupid construction of the box itself.Quote
TheGreek
I just got mine yesterday in the mail , and on the shelf it goes along with the previous Bigger Bang Box set . Unopened , some day maybe ?
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MathijsQuote
Four Stone WallsQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
DandelionPowderman
According to Kimsey this version is from the BAB-sessions.
That's not about the deluxe version, though, it simply says 'first reggae version' or whatever as in that's when they started working on it. This is an earlier take than the LP take from 1977.
Have you read the book that came with the superdeluxe-set? Kimsey is saying that this version, on LP2, is indeed from the BAB-sessions. I'll see if I can dig up a pic of the quote later.
Kinsey says it's from 1975 sessions. Mathis says no such version now exists and all(?) versions we have are from '78. ( Why not '77 Mathis?)
So who is right? I think Kinsey.
I noticed from the Trouble's a Coming thread that Mathis is certain it is from 1978 ( again, why not '77?) because of Keith's guitar and amp set-up. Sounds knowledgeable and plausible. Mathis knows his equipment stuff.
But Kinsey says it's from '79 Bahamas sessions.
To me TAC does not have the same vibe or sound as other ER tracks so. I have, until now at least been inclined to believe Mathis.
Who is right?
In my opinion -and it is indeed more of an educated guess - there are sonic differences in the various recording sessions. In 1977 Charlie still used his black Gretsch set, in February 1978 he added the China crash, from April 1978 on he changed to the maple Gretsch set. Wyman used his Ampeg London bass for early 1977 sessions and the long scale Travis Bean for the remainder of the sessions, and in late January or early February 1978 received the short scale Travis Bean. 1977 was a mix of Boogie and Fender amps with various guitars, whereas from 1979 on especially Keith used the Boogie MKI and the Tele Custom almost exclusively. Pathe Marconi has a denser mix, with less separation between the guitars (almost a mono sound, like on Imagination), and 1979 has a very clear and crisp sound, with a cracking snare and high pitched Tele bends.
There's more to it -but in general you can get a feel for when something was recorded. So about Start Me up: that really sounds like the old black Gretsch set, no China, Bill is playing the short scale Travis Bean. Guitar amps are Boogie. This leads to a most likely recording date of February 1978.
They could have played it for sure in 1975, but any of the 1975 versions simply is not available to us.
Mathijs
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treaclefingersQuote
TheGreekSorry to hear that . Mine came from Walmart who I purchase most of my media from . Never Amazon for the reason you described as I have heard many others with the same concern .Quote
ironbellyMine already went back for replacement. The outer box was damaged upon arrival. Very poor packaging by amazon and, apparently, reckless delivery by post office. Not to mention a bit stupid construction of the box itself.Quote
TheGreek
I just got mine yesterday in the mail , and on the shelf it goes along with the previous Bigger Bang Box set . Unopened , some day maybe ?
I'll give Mick the last word on this..."sometimes I wonder why, you do these things to me".
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micha063
I have decided to buy the old CBS mix from the 80s. I don't like the new mixes at all. The other stuff is available as MP3. So I'm happy.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.
Not all old CBS CDs are equally good.Quote
micha063
I have decided to buy the old CBS mix from the 80s. I don't like the new mixes at all. The other stuff is available as MP3. So I'm happy.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.
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ironbellyNot all old CBS CDs are equally good.Quote
micha063
I have decided to buy the old CBS mix from the 80s. I don't like the new mixes at all. The other stuff is available as MP3. So I'm happy.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.
Sticky Fingers I a bit thin on bass
EOMS, GHS and IORR are a bit muddy. EOMS has a bug - volume drop in vocal in Sweet Virginia.
The rest are perfectly OK.
Yes.Quote
micha063Quote
ironbellyNot all old CBS CDs are equally good.Quote
micha063
I have decided to buy the old CBS mix from the 80s. I don't like the new mixes at all. The other stuff is available as MP3. So I'm happy.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.
Sticky Fingers I a bit thin on bass
EOMS, GHS and IORR are a bit muddy. EOMS has a bug - volume drop in vocal in Sweet Virginia.
The rest are perfectly OK.
Thank you for the info!
So I guess for these ones it should be better to try the virgin mixes. Am I correct?
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bakersfield
To my ears I'd the Virgin 70's catalogue sounds best and the 2009 remasters the worst.
For the 60's Stones CD's, I use the DSD reissues; a good step up in quality for a small outlay.
I am a minority here but I do not like Virgin remaster. Because it sounds a bit digital and harsh. Also, it suffers from some clipping. Actually, almost every peak that approaches the maximum is 'shaved'. Maybe it is not that important, maybe it adds some 'aggression' to the sound but Virgin CDs just does not sound right for me (sure as a completist I have them in collection).Quote
shadooby
Yup, for 71-81 it's the 94 Virgins...60's it's the 2002's. Hands down.
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MathijsQuote
ZindyQuote
MathijsQuote
ZindyQuote
Mathijs
...The backing track of this new 2021 release of SMU is available in tape traders circles...
Stop pretending you don't have it. When have you ever shared anything here, you can do it now. Or tell your friend Remco to share it.
Remco hasn't taken any orders from me in 25 years.
MathijsQuote
GasLightStreet
...
Here.
...
GasLightStreet, not that well-known one. Two more reggae versions exist, one of them turned into the 2021 Early Version. Mathijs elegantly avoided the subject (he has both versions). Maybe you can ask Mathijs if he would like to share, obviously I didn't succeed.
Who are you anyway, and how do you know Remco?
Mathijs
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DoxaQuote
bitusa2012Quote
treaclefingersQuote
bitusa2012
The more I listen, and I am listening often, the more and more I reckon the Lost and Found disc would have made a great mid 80’s Stones album in its full without the alternate Start me Up. It’s fantastic.
The best disc of outtakes The Stones have released on any of their Deluxe issues. No real dud.
The ONLY issue, has it been released as an album after the Start me Up / Tattoo You juggernaut, would have been the lack of a big hit single on it.
That didn't curtail any of their other subsequent releases!
True but I think they may have thought that She Was Hot and/or Undercover itself would be big. Especially the former which has a similar sonic sound to it as Start me Up. To my ears anyway.
Yeah, at the moment I think that this LOST & FOUND is the best Stones album since... yeah.. TATTOO YOU, but the idea that it would have been released after TATTOO YOU instead of, say, UNDERCOVER or DIRTY WORK... Well, that's a fascinating idea, since technically that would have been possible, but I don't think it would have worked. I mean, now it might sound being a graet album relaesed in mid-80's, but at the time back then I don't think it would have been hailed that much.
First of all, the idea of them releasing just another album of old rejects again would have made them look a bit desperate and back then they still were considered largely a living and breathing band that supposed to create something novel. TATTOO YOU was a happy expection to a rule, but another sort of similar album would have looked pretty bad for their image as a creative unit.
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RobertJohnson
I have listened to the new songs several times now. The highlights are undoubtedly the cover versions. Of the original compositions, only Fast Talking Slow Walking is worth mentioning. This is the only self-composed song that has a certain musical architecture. Everything else are arbitrary chord progressions that could be different, and a lot of Jagger noise that could be different, too.
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MathijsQuote
Four Stone WallsQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
GasLightStreetQuote
DandelionPowderman
According to Kimsey this version is from the BAB-sessions.
That's not about the deluxe version, though, it simply says 'first reggae version' or whatever as in that's when they started working on it. This is an earlier take than the LP take from 1977.
Have you read the book that came with the superdeluxe-set? Kimsey is saying that this version, on LP2, is indeed from the BAB-sessions. I'll see if I can dig up a pic of the quote later.
Kinsey says it's from 1975 sessions. Mathis says no such version now exists and all(?) versions we have are from '78. ( Why not '77 Mathis?)
So who is right? I think Kinsey.
I noticed from the Trouble's a Coming thread that Mathis is certain it is from 1978 ( again, why not '77?) because of Keith's guitar and amp set-up. Sounds knowledgeable and plausible. Mathis knows his equipment stuff.
But Kinsey says it's from '79 Bahamas sessions.
To me TAC does not have the same vibe or sound as other ER tracks so. I have, until now at least been inclined to believe Mathis.
Who is right?
In my opinion -and it is indeed more of an educated guess - there are sonic differences in the various recording sessions. In 1977 Charlie still used his black Gretsch set, in February 1978 he added the China crash, from April 1978 on he changed to the maple Gretsch set. Wyman used his Ampeg London bass for early 1977 sessions and the long scale Travis Bean for the remainder of the sessions, and in late January or early February 1978 received the short scale Travis Bean. 1977 was a mix of Boogie and Fender amps with various guitars, whereas from 1979 on especially Keith used the Boogie MKI and the Tele Custom almost exclusively. Pathe Marconi has a denser mix, with less separation between the guitars (almost a mono sound, like on Imagination), and 1979 has a very clear and crisp sound, with a cracking snare and high pitched Tele bends.
There's more to it -but in general you can get a feel for when something was recorded. So about Start Me up: that really sounds like the old black Gretsch set, no China, Bill is playing the short scale Travis Bean. Guitar amps are Boogie. This leads to a most likely recording date of February 1978.
They could have played it for sure in 1975, but any of the 1975 versions simply is not available to us.
Mathijs
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LeonidPQuote
gonzalo76
I wish I could get a vinyl rip, because Stephen Marcussen went too far this time with his "remaster". CDs and digital downloads are briclwalled, compressed, with dynamic range of 5 and 8 for Wembley. People are not listening to music anymore, they are listening to noise.
Nah, people aren't listening to music anymore, instead they are viewing it in these audio-analysis tools.
Quote
micha063
I have decided to buy the old CBS mix from the 80s. I don't like the new mixes at all. The other stuff is available as MP3. So I'm happy.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.
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GasLightStreetQuote
micha063
I have decided to buy the old CBS mix from the 80s. I don't like the new mixes at all. The other stuff is available as MP3. So I'm happy.
I'll try to get more of the CBS mixes. Tatto You sounds great and I guess the others do.too.
This is starting to creep in with some people and it makes zero sense:
TATTOO YOU 2021 is not a new mix. It's not a remix. It's not a different mix.
That one accolade belongs to GOATS HEAD SOUP 2020.
Remix and remaster are just as different as a turtle and a cotton rug.