Tell Me :
Talk
That's the piano at 0:27, not to be confused with an acoustic guitar.
I know the difference between a piano and a guitar. I’m in my thirties and take care of my ears.
I’ve posted a dozen examples of this in previous threads. There is an acoustic on the rough YouTube version and the Tattoo You version. Others hear it as well and now it’s in print in the newly released Tattoo You book.
and vinyl as well as far as i know
wasn´t ABB the 1st one they treated that way ?
I really do not hear an acoustic guitar....at 0:27 I hear piano and percussion, and there's an echo of the percussion in the left channel. On the original outtake from 1972 with the Jagger vocals there is also no acoustic guitar, but the shuffle in the right speaker is Charlie's hi-hat.
The acoustic from 1981 really is just a try, likely by Jagger. It is clear why it was not removed. Could it be that Kimsey is revering to this removed guitar?
Mathijs
When Taylor was asked what song he is most proud of to be on he named Brown Sugar. His guitar part was completely removed from the official version.
Mathijs
Listening to Essen'70 this official version fact is quite uninteresting to me . The things Taylor played live is something to be proud of indeed.
If I get some time later, I’ll pull it up. Once you hear it you can’t Un-hear it.
It's from the Tattoo You superdeluxe box set.
The lyrics for "Shame, Shame, Shame" go something like this:
It's a shame,shame,shame, that we mastered this so loud"
Wood jammed with them at the studio in Munich while Taylor was sick.
Let me have one more piss in the wind:
The album didn't have individual song credits. Jagger admitted, "I got fed up with writing all those credit lists out and everyone wants one above the other one, and then I don't remember who is playing. Everyone got paid, anyway."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-26 00:07 by TheflyingDutchman.
had enough pubic hair in your music as well it seems!
Indeed.
I think I'd like the song more if the title had been, "Too Bad", or "She's Got You" or something a little less groinal.
Gene Barge and Bobby.
1) This info was first revealed by James Karnbach in his book. Ronnie visited them in the studio (there's a famous picture of RW and MJ on Heathrow in November 1973, returning together from Munich). But JK also said there's a couple of editing mistakes in his book, so this might be one of them.
2) Bill Wyman wrote about the short Miami-session in his second book. I first assumed they demoed Fragile, a song MJ was working on the 1972 tour, but why not demoing or recording a first draft of Fast Talking, Slow Walking there?
Check the first column on page 401 of Rolling With The Stones. They worked two days on the song it says.
N
That's because via any halfway way decent Hi Fi system [rather than via ear buds from your phone] , they all sound sh*t.
All sadly par for the course these days and lowest common denominator strikes again.
We've been making and listening to music to soothe our souls for thousands of years ...
...but if it had always sounded like today's mass market digital output, it would never have caught on or even been a thing !
[except maybe as a means of torture ]
Thanks, will go pull out that book ASAP ! Great book BTW but it could have been formatted differently perhaps, with a section dedicated to the sessions, dates, titles of songs, anecdotes, etc...to serve as a reference that we'll probably never get now. There the info is sprinkled here and there, sometimes with titles, sometimes not, etc...
As for "Start Me Up"/"Never Stop" it seems the debate continues as to whether it's from 1975 or 1977/78 ;-) Seems more likely it would be from 1977/1978 but since it leaked "alone" (Napster before a boot if memory serves) it's hard to place it in a context with other tracks. Also I'll say it again but to me the L&F SMU is one of the worst reworked outtakes we've had, with some vocals that sound like Mick on stage in 2021 that would have never been used on an "original" SMU. And yes, it's not very reggae at all apart from the end, they surely had some better versions hanging around, especially since they say they had dozens of reggae takes. Odd that they would use the only leaked version as the backing track ;-)
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-26 11:22 by gotdablouse.
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Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: October 25, 2021 18:07
Quote
TravelinMan
There is an acoustic, and it’s buried. You can hear it come in at 0:27. It plays a different rhythm than the electric. It’s percussive and you can hear the higher strings.
That's the piano at 0:27, not to be confused with an acoustic guitar.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: October 25, 2021 18:31
Quote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
TravelinMan
There is an acoustic, and it’s buried. You can hear it come in at 0:27. It plays a different rhythm than the electric. It’s percussive and you can hear the higher strings.
That's the piano at 0:27, not to be confused with an acoustic guitar.
I know the difference between a piano and a guitar. I’m in my thirties and take care of my ears.
I’ve posted a dozen examples of this in previous threads. There is an acoustic on the rough YouTube version and the Tattoo You version. Others hear it as well and now it’s in print in the newly released Tattoo You book.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
Dorn
()
Date: October 25, 2021 18:38
Quote
AdamsQuote
frankotero
I would like to make one final comment about audio quality. It's understandable the brick wall strategy is for smartphones and lo-fi ear buds. However, maybe it's possible to make the records closer to audiophile. And yes I would agree it's basically nice to have this concert and out-takes in the state they're in. But I can still wish.
They would only need to prepare separate mastering for vinyl, cd and streaming/mp3 files. That's all. Now CD shares the same mastering as streaming/mp3 and that's lame.
and vinyl as well as far as i know
wasn´t ABB the 1st one they treated that way ?
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: October 25, 2021 19:05
Quote
TravelinManQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
TravelinMan
There is an acoustic, and it’s buried. You can hear it come in at 0:27. It plays a different rhythm than the electric. It’s percussive and you can hear the higher strings.
That's the piano at 0:27, not to be confused with an acoustic guitar.
I know the difference between a piano and a guitar. I’m in my thirties and take care of my ears.
I’ve posted a dozen examples of this in previous threads. There is an acoustic on the rough YouTube version and the Tattoo You version. Others hear it as well and now it’s in print in the newly released Tattoo You book.
I really do not hear an acoustic guitar....at 0:27 I hear piano and percussion, and there's an echo of the percussion in the left channel. On the original outtake from 1972 with the Jagger vocals there is also no acoustic guitar, but the shuffle in the right speaker is Charlie's hi-hat.
The acoustic from 1981 really is just a try, likely by Jagger. It is clear why it was not removed. Could it be that Kimsey is revering to this removed guitar?
Mathijs
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: October 25, 2021 19:07
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
If he didn't play or was wiped on WAOF, then why did he make a story about it?
Taylor's GF answered that to me, some 5 years ago.
When Taylor was asked what song he is most proud of to be on he named Brown Sugar. His guitar part was completely removed from the official version.
Mathijs
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: October 25, 2021 19:21
Quote
MathijsQuote
TheflyingDutchman
If he didn't play or was wiped on WAOF, then why did he make a story about it?
Taylor's GF answered that to me, some 5 years ago.
When Taylor was asked what song he is most proud of to be on he named Brown Sugar. His guitar part was completely removed from the official version.
Mathijs
Listening to Essen'70 this official version fact is quite uninteresting to me . The things Taylor played live is something to be proud of indeed.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: October 25, 2021 19:37
Quote
MathijsQuote
TravelinManQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
TravelinMan
There is an acoustic, and it’s buried. You can hear it come in at 0:27. It plays a different rhythm than the electric. It’s percussive and you can hear the higher strings.
That's the piano at 0:27, not to be confused with an acoustic guitar.
I know the difference between a piano and a guitar. I’m in my thirties and take care of my ears.
I’ve posted a dozen examples of this in previous threads. There is an acoustic on the rough YouTube version and the Tattoo You version. Others hear it as well and now it’s in print in the newly released Tattoo You book.
I really do not hear an acoustic guitar....at 0:27 I hear piano and percussion, and there's an echo of the percussion in the left channel. On the original outtake from 1972 with the Jagger vocals there is also no acoustic guitar, but the shuffle in the right speaker is Charlie's hi-hat.
The acoustic from 1981 really is just a try, likely by Jagger. It is clear why it was not removed. Could it be that Kimsey is revering to this removed guitar?
Mathijs
If I get some time later, I’ll pull it up. Once you hear it you can’t Un-hear it.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 25, 2021 20:37
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
What book is this Bård? The right column doesn't quote Chris Kimsey, ' ' as you can see. Apart from that I don't want to rehash the entire subject.
It's from the Tattoo You superdeluxe box set.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
Lynd8
()
Date: October 25, 2021 20:49
Quote
johnypar
where would it be possible to find the lyrics for disc2?
The lyrics for "Shame, Shame, Shame" go something like this:
It's a shame,shame,shame, that we mastered this so loud"
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: October 25, 2021 21:26
So aside from the "usual"mistakes in the credits I found two interesting pieces of information in the liner notes, sorry if they've already been discussed :
1. Black Limousine supposedly started as "Broken Head Blues" (first used on OBR's "Sheep Deep Blues" bootleg LP) and "Biscuit Blues" (on OBR's Paris Results 2 but unrelated to BL as far as I can remember) at Musicland in 1973 ?! Surely that can't be right since Ronnie got a credit ?
2. Fast Talking was started at Criteria Studios in Miami BEFORE the Kingston sessions. I can't remember these sessions ever being mentioned anywhere ?
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
1. Black Limousine supposedly started as "Broken Head Blues" (first used on OBR's "Sheep Deep Blues" bootleg LP) and "Biscuit Blues" (on OBR's Paris Results 2 but unrelated to BL as far as I can remember) at Musicland in 1973 ?! Surely that can't be right since Ronnie got a credit ?
2. Fast Talking was started at Criteria Studios in Miami BEFORE the Kingston sessions. I can't remember these sessions ever being mentioned anywhere ?
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: October 25, 2021 21:43
Quote
gotdablouse
So aside from the "usual"mistakes in the credits I found two interesting pieces of information in the liner notes, sorry if they've already been discussed :
1. Black Limousine supposedly started as "Broken Head Blues" (first used on OBR's "Sheep Deep Blues" bootleg LP) and "Biscuit Blues" (on OBR's Paris Results 2 but unrelated to BL as far as I can remember) at Musicland in 1973 ?! Surely that can't be right since Ronnie got a credit ?
2. Fast Talking was started at Criteria Studios in Miami BEFORE the Kingston sessions. I can't remember these sessions ever being mentioned anywhere ?
Wood jammed with them at the studio in Munich while Taylor was sick.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: October 25, 2021 22:23
ok, didn't remember that. I've noticed that Nico now has BL under entry 731112A for November 1973.
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
deardoctor
()
Date: October 25, 2021 23:17
Listened to the alternate "Start me up" which I enjoy a lot. Reminds me to "A harder they come" guitarwise.
But: is that really Charlie playing on this? For me it does not sound like him, what do you think?
But: is that really Charlie playing on this? For me it does not sound like him, what do you think?
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: October 25, 2021 23:43
Quote
deardoctor
Listened to the alternate "Start me up" which I enjoy a lot. Reminds me to "A harder they come" guitarwise.
But: is that really Charlie playing on this? For me it does not sound like him, what do you think?
Let me have one more piss in the wind:
The album didn't have individual song credits. Jagger admitted, "I got fed up with writing all those credit lists out and everyone wants one above the other one, and then I don't remember who is playing. Everyone got paid, anyway."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-26 00:07 by TheflyingDutchman.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
bakersfield
()
Date: October 26, 2021 01:17
I used some of the Lost and Found tracks and one other to make a version of IORR in Tattoo You style:
'Fast' side
If you can't rock me
Ain't too proud to beg
Its only rock n roll
Dance Little Sister
Finger print file
'Slow' side
Through the Lonely nights
Drift away
Fast talking, slow walking
Till the next goodbye
Time waits for no-one
I realise Time waits for no-one is probably faster than Fingerprint file but its a ballad of sorts so it fits bette on the slow side. I've sacrificed Luxury' but I wont miss it, Never could sit through 'If you really want to be my friend' either.
'Fast' side
If you can't rock me
Ain't too proud to beg
Its only rock n roll
Dance Little Sister
Finger print file
'Slow' side
Through the Lonely nights
Drift away
Fast talking, slow walking
Till the next goodbye
Time waits for no-one
I realise Time waits for no-one is probably faster than Fingerprint file but its a ballad of sorts so it fits bette on the slow side. I've sacrificed Luxury' but I wont miss it, Never could sit through 'If you really want to be my friend' either.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: October 26, 2021 01:22
Quote
bakersfield
I used some of the Lost and Found tracks and one other to make a version of IORR in Tattoo You style:
'Fast' side
If you can't rock me
Ain't too proud to beg
Its only rock n roll
Dance Little Sister
Finger print file
'Slow' side
Through the Lonely nights
Drift away
Fast talking, slow walking
Till the next goodbye
Time waits for no-one
I realise Time waits for no-one is probably faster than Fingerprint file but its a ballad of sorts so it fits bette on the slow side. I've sacrificed Luxury' but I wont miss it, Never could sit through 'If you really want to be my friend' either.
had enough pubic hair in your music as well it seems!
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
bakersfield
()
Date: October 26, 2021 01:28
I'm sorry Treacle Fingers - you're going to have to explain that one to me 
)
)Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
TeaAtThree
()
Date: October 26, 2021 02:00
Treacle was referencing "Short and Curlies" as the other missing track.
T@3
T@3
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: October 26, 2021 02:19
Quote
TeaAtThree
Treacle was referencing "Short and Curlies" as the other missing track.
T@3
Indeed.
I think I'd like the song more if the title had been, "Too Bad", or "She's Got You" or something a little less groinal.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: October 26, 2021 03:39
....agree ... totally agree ...
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
Nsantoro
()
Date: October 26, 2021 04:56
Who is playing sax on Live at Wembley? Bobby Keys? Ernie Watts was only on tour in ‘81
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
ChrisM42
()
Date: October 26, 2021 06:39
Part Two:
More on the Tattoo You "40th Anniversary" release.
Part One: Go-Backs and Corrections
“Lonely at the Top” on Nondon Records, Matrix: Melted out. The vinyl release date is July 1983 (Yes, 1983 is correct. I cannot go by memory anymore).
More precision on the Fiji Jim first release:
“Claudine – Accidents Will Happen” 2LP EVA Records, Released July 1982
“The Paris Rehearsals” 2LP EVA Records, Released July 1982.
These records have professional looking artwork, printed covers and excellent stereo sound.
Troubles a’ Commin (4:16)
First heard on the CD “The Pain of Love” VGP-052 as ‘Break Away’ released in 1995 (4:36), and later on DAC-107 & TSP-CD-274 with the same title. Also found on “All Mixed Up” Outsider Bird Records LP 1998 and later on the DAC-111 CD “All Mixed Up” with the title ‘Chain-Reaction-Groove’. Also on “All Mixed Up” Rabbit Records 2CD RR 024/025 1999.
Note: The working vocal is very low in the mix, but the words ‘troubles a’ commin’ can be clearly heard throughout the track.
And now, the rest of the story:
Come to the Ball (3:41) – First heard as the instrumental track ‘Wind Call’ a.k.a. ‘Windmill’ on the 1994 release “Could You Walk on the Water” VGP-027, and on the later (2000) reworked re-release “Fast Talking” VGP-237. There are two versions of the instrumental, one heard on VGP-027 and the second with MT on slide guitar on VGP-237 & "Place Pigalle" VGP-362 4CD.
Recorded: Village Recorders, Los Angeles, January 27-30, 1973
Note: Now with newly written lyrics and vocal recorded by MJ!
Fast Talking, Slow Walking (5:40) – First heard on the 1994 release “Could You Walk on the Water” VGP-027 and on the later (2000) reworked re-release “Fast Talking” VGP-237, track 7 (6:34). Also found on the “Exile on Main St. Alternates” CD (6:36). A fairly complete vocal with call out production by MJ. Also found on “Fully Finished Outtakes” (5:54) with a different guitar opening that includes pull-offs during the opening guitar wah-wah section.
Recorded: Dynamic Sound Studios, Jamaica, November 25-30 & December 6-21, 1972. A “Goats Head Soup” session release based on the late ’72 dates. ‘Exile’ was released in May 1972.
Note: A newly recorded vocal with lyrics closely derived from the earlier takes.
Start Me Up (4:10) – The early reggae version a.k.a. ‘Never Stop’. Released on “The Pain of Love” DAC-111 (4:55 with quick fade out) and “Start Us Up” Mighty Diamonds, MD 2009 (2:16) and ‘Emotional Rescue Demos’ SODD 125 to name a few.
Recorded: First reggae version recorded at Musicland Studios, Munich, Germany on March 19 - April 4, 1975.
Note: The version on ‘Lost & Found’ has newly recorded vocal track with the nearly complete ‘rock’ lyric over the reggae instrumental. The unauthorized versions are much less developed with an incomplete song hook. They actually sound more reggae than the ‘L&F’ version.
The mixes on these old tapes are quite good with dynamic range, detail and good bottom end sound.
A great treatment of pulling tracks from the archives with lyrics and vocals in the spirit of the original takes.
Looking forward to the next ‘Lost & Found’ releases!
Chris M.
PS: Credit must go to NZ and DH who research the recording locations and dates that are often used by the manufacturers of these recordings. Their work is documented in both printed matter and on-line.
PSS: I will post on my website with lots of pictures and share the link…
More on the Tattoo You "40th Anniversary" release.
Part One: Go-Backs and Corrections
“Lonely at the Top” on Nondon Records, Matrix: Melted out. The vinyl release date is July 1983 (Yes, 1983 is correct. I cannot go by memory anymore).
More precision on the Fiji Jim first release:
“Claudine – Accidents Will Happen” 2LP EVA Records, Released July 1982
“The Paris Rehearsals” 2LP EVA Records, Released July 1982.
These records have professional looking artwork, printed covers and excellent stereo sound.
Troubles a’ Commin (4:16)
First heard on the CD “The Pain of Love” VGP-052 as ‘Break Away’ released in 1995 (4:36), and later on DAC-107 & TSP-CD-274 with the same title. Also found on “All Mixed Up” Outsider Bird Records LP 1998 and later on the DAC-111 CD “All Mixed Up” with the title ‘Chain-Reaction-Groove’. Also on “All Mixed Up” Rabbit Records 2CD RR 024/025 1999.
Note: The working vocal is very low in the mix, but the words ‘troubles a’ commin’ can be clearly heard throughout the track.
And now, the rest of the story:
Come to the Ball (3:41) – First heard as the instrumental track ‘Wind Call’ a.k.a. ‘Windmill’ on the 1994 release “Could You Walk on the Water” VGP-027, and on the later (2000) reworked re-release “Fast Talking” VGP-237. There are two versions of the instrumental, one heard on VGP-027 and the second with MT on slide guitar on VGP-237 & "Place Pigalle" VGP-362 4CD.
Recorded: Village Recorders, Los Angeles, January 27-30, 1973
Note: Now with newly written lyrics and vocal recorded by MJ!
Fast Talking, Slow Walking (5:40) – First heard on the 1994 release “Could You Walk on the Water” VGP-027 and on the later (2000) reworked re-release “Fast Talking” VGP-237, track 7 (6:34). Also found on the “Exile on Main St. Alternates” CD (6:36). A fairly complete vocal with call out production by MJ. Also found on “Fully Finished Outtakes” (5:54) with a different guitar opening that includes pull-offs during the opening guitar wah-wah section.
Recorded: Dynamic Sound Studios, Jamaica, November 25-30 & December 6-21, 1972. A “Goats Head Soup” session release based on the late ’72 dates. ‘Exile’ was released in May 1972.
Note: A newly recorded vocal with lyrics closely derived from the earlier takes.
Start Me Up (4:10) – The early reggae version a.k.a. ‘Never Stop’. Released on “The Pain of Love” DAC-111 (4:55 with quick fade out) and “Start Us Up” Mighty Diamonds, MD 2009 (2:16) and ‘Emotional Rescue Demos’ SODD 125 to name a few.
Recorded: First reggae version recorded at Musicland Studios, Munich, Germany on March 19 - April 4, 1975.
Note: The version on ‘Lost & Found’ has newly recorded vocal track with the nearly complete ‘rock’ lyric over the reggae instrumental. The unauthorized versions are much less developed with an incomplete song hook. They actually sound more reggae than the ‘L&F’ version.
The mixes on these old tapes are quite good with dynamic range, detail and good bottom end sound.
A great treatment of pulling tracks from the archives with lyrics and vocals in the spirit of the original takes.
Looking forward to the next ‘Lost & Found’ releases!
Chris M.
PS: Credit must go to NZ and DH who research the recording locations and dates that are often used by the manufacturers of these recordings. Their work is documented in both printed matter and on-line.
PSS: I will post on my website with lots of pictures and share the link…
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
kowalski
()
Date: October 26, 2021 06:58
So Jagger is singing new vocals on the original reggae version of Start Me Up ? They should play the reggae version on tour for a change.....
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 26, 2021 08:12
Quote
Nsantoro
Who is playing sax on Live at Wembley? Bobby Keys? Ernie Watts was only on tour in ‘81
Gene Barge and Bobby.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
JakeA
()
Date: October 26, 2021 09:44
Quote
MathijsQuote
TravelinManQuote
TheflyingDutchmanQuote
TravelinMan
There is an acoustic, and it’s buried. You can hear it come in at 0:27. It plays a different rhythm than the electric. It’s percussive and you can hear the higher strings.
That's the piano at 0:27, not to be confused with an acoustic guitar.
I know the difference between a piano and a guitar. I’m in my thirties and take care of my ears.
I’ve posted a dozen examples of this in previous threads. There is an acoustic on the rough YouTube version and the Tattoo You version. Others hear it as well and now it’s in print in the newly released Tattoo You book.
I really do not hear an acoustic guitar....at 0:27 I hear piano and percussion, and there's an echo of the percussion in the left channel. On the original outtake from 1972 with the Jagger vocals there is also no acoustic guitar, but the shuffle in the right speaker is Charlie's hi-hat.
The acoustic from 1981 really is just a try, likely by Jagger. It is clear why it was not removed. Could it be that Kimsey is revering to this removed guitar?
Mathijs
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
JakeA
()
Date: October 26, 2021 09:46
listen to the 2021 version, start at 3:55 and you will hear the acoustic most clearly
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
NeddieFlanders
()
Date: October 26, 2021 10:07
Quote
gotdablouse
So aside from the "usual"mistakes in the credits I found two interesting pieces of information in the liner notes, sorry if they've already been discussed :
1. Black Limousine supposedly started as "Broken Head Blues" (first used on OBR's "Sheep Deep Blues" bootleg LP) and "Biscuit Blues" (on OBR's Paris Results 2 but unrelated to BL as far as I can remember) at Musicland in 1973 ?! Surely that can't be right since Ronnie got a credit ?
2. Fast Talking was started at Criteria Studios in Miami BEFORE the Kingston sessions. I can't remember these sessions ever being mentioned anywhere ?
1) This info was first revealed by James Karnbach in his book. Ronnie visited them in the studio (there's a famous picture of RW and MJ on Heathrow in November 1973, returning together from Munich). But JK also said there's a couple of editing mistakes in his book, so this might be one of them.
2) Bill Wyman wrote about the short Miami-session in his second book. I first assumed they demoed Fragile, a song MJ was working on the 1972 tour, but why not demoing or recording a first draft of Fast Talking, Slow Walking there?
Check the first column on page 401 of Rolling With The Stones. They worked two days on the song it says.
N
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
Spud
()
Date: October 26, 2021 11:14
Quote
micha063Quote
micha063Quote
ironbelly
Evolution of Start Me Up for different mastering and editions in digital domain.
1983, Toshiba-EMI [CP35-3032] CD with 'black triangle' label. The very first CD of The Rolling Stones in the world ever. Apart of very obvious pop at the mark 0.03 the rest looks pretty much OK. Dynamic Range (DR) for the track is DR=12. Well, the tape used for A/D transfer was obviously not the 1st generation, A/D converters were really bad. However, (most probably) not too many manipulations in digital domain were done. Call it a flat transfer if you wish. Mumbo-jumbo in digital domain was not well developed at the time.
1986, CBS mastering for catalog re-issue. Tattoo You CD was mastered by Greg Calbi. Again, minimal intrusion in digital domain. Although, it is a tad louder comparing to the previous one. Really nicely sounding CD. This time DR=14
1994, Virgin remaster made by Bob Ludvig. He used new A/D converters, much better than those for previous cases and (allegedly) better tpes. But he also increased the volume, added compression and equalized the CD differently. Hate to tell to fans of this remaster, but many peaks were shaved due to clipping. That is not drastic 'shave' but tops of the loudest peaks are flat. DR=11
2009, Stephen 'Masher' Marcussen's remaster. Very controversial one. At the time it was considered as an example of brickwall mastering. Volume to the max, tons of compression added. DR=7. We did not know all in 2009.
2011, back to the egg. Japanese only SHM-CD edition prepared as a flat transfer from original master tapes. This one is pretty similar to old good 1983 EMI-Toshiba CD. But this time the tape was original, A/D converters were better. The CD sounds fabulous. But I have a feeling they applied some equalizing. DR=14
2021, Masher strikes again. This time it is no brickwall, it is a concrete plate.
DR=4. Ear-bleeding over-compressed loud mess.
Call me a moaner but there is extremely nicely done Japanese flat transfer. It was done for archival purposes and exist in DSD format. It was re-issued in Japan in 2020 on SHM-CD once again. It is handy. So why we got another barely listenable product in 2021?
Do you know, if all cbs releases are the same?
I don't think so. Do you know wjich release is the one mixed by Greg Calbi? Thank You!
So, I tried to make some research...
It seems, that also the so called "nice price" rrleades are the good ones.
The wuedtion is: Is this also the case for the other "nice price" Stones releases?
It starts to be very interesting! I realy don't like the so called brickwalled remasters and releases at all.
That's because via any halfway way decent Hi Fi system [rather than via ear buds from your phone] , they all sound sh*t.
All sadly par for the course these days and lowest common denominator strikes again.
We've been making and listening to music to soothe our souls for thousands of years ...
...but if it had always sounded like today's mass market digital output, it would never have caught on or even been a thing !
[except maybe as a means of torture ]
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
gotdablouse
()
Date: October 26, 2021 11:17
Quote
NeddieFlandersQuote
gotdablouse
So aside from the "usual"mistakes in the credits I found two interesting pieces of information in the liner notes, sorry if they've already been discussed :
1. Black Limousine supposedly started as "Broken Head Blues" (first used on OBR's "Sheep Deep Blues" bootleg LP) and "Biscuit Blues" (on OBR's Paris Results 2 but unrelated to BL as far as I can remember) at Musicland in 1973 ?! Surely that can't be right since Ronnie got a credit ?
2. Fast Talking was started at Criteria Studios in Miami BEFORE the Kingston sessions. I can't remember these sessions ever being mentioned anywhere ?
1) This info was first revealed by James Karnbach in his book. Ronnie visited them in the studio (there's a famous picture of RW and MJ on Heathrow in November 1973, returning together from Munich). But JK also said there's a couple of editing mistakes in his book, so this might be one of them.
2) Bill Wyman wrote about the short Miami-session in his second book. I first assumed they demoed Fragile, a song MJ was working on the 1972 tour, but why not demoing or recording a first draft of Fast Talking, Slow Walking there?
Check the first column on page 401 of Rolling With The Stones. They worked two days on the song it says.
N
Thanks, will go pull out that book ASAP ! Great book BTW but it could have been formatted differently perhaps, with a section dedicated to the sessions, dates, titles of songs, anecdotes, etc...to serve as a reference that we'll probably never get now. There the info is sprinkled here and there, sometimes with titles, sometimes not, etc...
As for "Start Me Up"/"Never Stop" it seems the debate continues as to whether it's from 1975 or 1977/78 ;-) Seems more likely it would be from 1977/1978 but since it leaked "alone" (Napster before a boot if memory serves) it's hard to place it in a context with other tracks. Also I'll say it again but to me the L&F SMU is one of the worst reworked outtakes we've had, with some vocals that sound like Mick on stage in 2021 that would have never been used on an "original" SMU. And yes, it's not very reggae at all apart from the end, they surely had some better versions hanging around, especially since they say they had dozens of reggae takes. Odd that they would use the only leaked version as the backing track ;-)
--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-26 11:22 by gotdablouse.
Re: Tattoo You deluxe version
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 26, 2021 11:48
<it seems the debate continues as to whether it's from 1975>
According to Kimsey this version is from the BAB-sessions.
According to Kimsey this version is from the BAB-sessions.
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