Because their ( Mick's ) focus is on the tour?

Really curious who did the mixing of the Wembley show. I really hope it’s a Bob Clearmountain mix.

I wonder from which London show are the live Tracks. Maybe a mix of both?

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astsu
I wonder from which London show are the live Tracks. Maybe a mix of both?

I really hope it is all from the first night as that was a great show, their first in London for six years.

windcall seriously
i mean how can they have left off stuff like
munich hilton/jah is not dead/built that way/misty roads/what's the matter/your angel steps out of heaven/another half dozen objectively great some girls outtakes and keiths toronto sessions which i persoanly count as stones material
somethings up mick's not dumb there's no way he doesn't see the potential in these tracks he has to be planning some kind of use for them

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ProfessorWolf
windcall seriously
i mean how can they have left off stuff like
munich hilton/jah is not dead/built that way/misty roads/what's the matter/your angel steps out of heaven/another half dozen objectively great some girls outtakes and keiths toronto sessions which i persoanly count as stones material
somethings up mick's not dumb there's no way he doesn't see the potential in these tracks he has to be planning some kind of use for them

Some years ago I would have explained their reasoning behind this like "they're keeping them aside for future releases", but given the ever-shrinking sales figures of a slowly dying music industry I'm beginning to doubt that ten years from now, there'll even be dedicated archive releases of previously unreleased material.

I think you're spot on Retired Dog. Stones need to expedite their "box sets" or anniversary issues. I understand there needs to be a calculated spacing between releases but I think they've waited too long for this 'Tattoo You' anniversary (they should have done a 25 year one). Plus, the unreleased songs they've chosen seem odd as compared to what we know exists.

I think they'd be better off releasing a "Best Of" unreleased. This might generate more interest and sales ultimately.

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retired_dog

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ProfessorWolf
windcall seriously
i mean how can they have left off stuff like
munich hilton/jah is not dead/built that way/misty roads/what's the matter/your angel steps out of heaven/another half dozen objectively great some girls outtakes and keiths toronto sessions which i persoanly count as stones material
somethings up mick's not dumb there's no way he doesn't see the potential in these tracks he has to be planning some kind of use for them

Some years ago I would have explained their reasoning behind this like "they're keeping them aside for future releases", but given the ever-shrinking sales figures of a slowly dying music industry I'm beginning to doubt that ten years from now, there'll even be dedicated archive releases of previously unreleased material.

I think there’s a few different things at play here:

1. Mick said in one of his recent interviews that he listens to the outtakes and if lyrics come to him, then he chooses that song to work on. He further explained that that was the reason why there were a number of covers for the Tattoo You anniversary - he didn’t have to come up with any lyrics for those songs. I also think Potted Shrimp/Tell Her How It Is from FFSO is further proof of that statement. He tried that song and couldn’t get far with it, so he abandoned it.

2.The record company wants to hold on to songs for future releases, especially once Mick and Keith have passed on. There are plenty of bands and musicians who have been broken up or have been dead for a long time and still manage to have new stuff released. The Stones have enough material out there to make it to their 100th anniversary (and beyond). Yes, sales have dwindled overtime for these types of boxed sets, but all it takes is the death of Mick or Keith, or a really good biopic of the band to create a resurgence of interest in their music.

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CamRS

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retired_dog

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ProfessorWolf
windcall seriously
i mean how can they have left off stuff like
munich hilton/jah is not dead/built that way/misty roads/what's the matter/your angel steps out of heaven/another half dozen objectively great some girls outtakes and keiths toronto sessions which i persoanly count as stones material
somethings up mick's not dumb there's no way he doesn't see the potential in these tracks he has to be planning some kind of use for them

Some years ago I would have explained their reasoning behind this like "they're keeping them aside for future releases", but given the ever-shrinking sales figures of a slowly dying music industry I'm beginning to doubt that ten years from now, there'll even be dedicated archive releases of previously unreleased material.

I think there’s a few different things at play here:

1. Mick said in one of his recent interviews that he listens to the outtakes and if lyrics come to him, then he chooses that song to work on. He further explained that that was the reason why there were a number of covers for the Tattoo You anniversary - he didn’t have to come up with any lyrics for those songs. I also think Potted Shrimp/Tell Her How It Is from FFSO is further proof of that statement. He tried that song and couldn’t get far with it, so he abandoned it.

2.The record company wants to hold on to songs for future releases, especially once Mick and Keith have passed on. There are plenty of bands and musicians who have been broken up or have been dead for a long time and still manage to have new stuff released. The Stones have enough material out there to make it to their 100th anniversary (and beyond). Yes, sales have dwindled overtime for these types of boxed sets, but all it takes is the death of Mick or Keith, or a really good biopic of the band to create a resurgence of interest in their music.

oh...so you're saying there is hope we'll get some more unreleased material.

CamRS,

Good points but I think the actual cache of "fully-finished" outtakes is scant despite what KR might claim.

We got the lot of these outtakes earlier this year via bootleg and my hunch of what is left over and good enough for release is actually quite scant.

Hope I'm wrong.

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CamRS

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retired_dog

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ProfessorWolf
windcall seriously
i mean how can they have left off stuff like
munich hilton/jah is not dead/built that way/misty roads/what's the matter/your angel steps out of heaven/another half dozen objectively great some girls outtakes and keiths toronto sessions which i persoanly count as stones material
somethings up mick's not dumb there's no way he doesn't see the potential in these tracks he has to be planning some kind of use for them

Some years ago I would have explained their reasoning behind this like "they're keeping them aside for future releases", but given the ever-shrinking sales figures of a slowly dying music industry I'm beginning to doubt that ten years from now, there'll even be dedicated archive releases of previously unreleased material.

I think there’s a few different things at play here:

1. Mick said in one of his recent interviews that he listens to the outtakes and if lyrics come to him, then he chooses that song to work on. He further explained that that was the reason why there were a number of covers for the Tattoo You anniversary - he didn’t have to come up with any lyrics for those songs. I also think Potted Shrimp/Tell Her How It Is from FFSO is further proof of that statement. He tried that song and couldn’t get far with it, so he abandoned it.

2.The record company wants to hold on to songs for future releases, especially once Mick and Keith have passed on. There are plenty of bands and musicians who have been broken up or have been dead for a long time and still manage to have new stuff released. The Stones have enough material out there to make it to their 100th anniversary (and beyond). Yes, sales have dwindled overtime for these types of boxed sets, but all it takes is the death of Mick or Keith, or a really good biopic of the band to create a resurgence of interest in their music.

These were my thoughts too - a couple of years ago. That said, I think the Stones are a bit late in the game, seeing that other artists are continuously "cleaning their decks" since many years already, and this includes big names like the Beatles or Bob Dylan, whereas the Stones only give us not more than basically a small handful of unreleased tracks every time they're touching the archives.

Then again, other than the Beatles for example, the Stones still generate massive income from touring so far, so up till now they can afford to hold stuff back for the future to keep record companies interested in their catalog.

Also, the difference in working methods compared to other artists may play a role here - apart from cover versions, Jagger obviously to a large degree only wrote complete lyrics for material that was finally evaluated for release, leaving outtakes usually in an unfinished state, either as instrumental tracks or with mumbled "phantom" vocals that worked as a guideline, but often made little or even no sense at all.

[www.rollingstone.com]

Some interesting notes about the Lost & Found tracks in this article:

The outtakes of outtakes aren’t as dubious as you’d think.

Given that Tattoo You was culled from sessions dating back to 1972-73, nearly a decade before its release, you’d think the remnants would truly be the dregs: tracks so lame the band passed on them twice? Sure enough, some of the cuts on Lost & Found: Rarities, like “Trouble’s a Comin’ ” and “Living in the Heart of Love,” are rote rockers, even if the guitar work on the former (uncredited) has a slithery allure.

But “Come Back to the Ball,” a mildly leering grinder that appears to have rarely leaked, recalls the Sticky Fingers era, and a remake of Dobie Gray’s “Drift Away,” from the It’s Only Rock ‘N Roll sessions, is charming and, for them, understated. We also finally get to hear a cleaned-up version of the Some Girls outtake “Fiji Jim,” a long-bootlegged Keith Richards raver that attains perfect decadent-Seventies sleaze. It’s too bad, though, that we don’t get to hear any of the rough early versions of these songs before they were manicured: What did “Waiting on a Friend” sound like during its gestation?

Thank God, or Jah, that they dropped the reggae version of “Start Me Up.”

Also included on Lost & Found is one of the earliest takes of that song, which was played reggae style at first. They made the right move in dumping those attempts: The version here is sluggish next to the take we all know.

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JordyLicks96
[www.rollingstone.com]

Some interesting notes about the Lost & Found tracks in this article:

The outtakes of outtakes aren’t as dubious as you’d think.

Given that Tattoo You was culled from sessions dating back to 1972-73, nearly a decade before its release, you’d think the remnants would truly be the dregs: tracks so lame the band passed on them twice? Sure enough, some of the cuts on Lost & Found: Rarities, like “Trouble’s a Comin’ ” and “Living in the Heart of Love,” are rote rockers, even if the guitar work on the former (uncredited) has a slithery allure.

But “Come Back to the Ball,” a mildly leering grinder that appears to have rarely leaked, recalls the Sticky Fingers era, and a remake of Dobie Gray’s “Drift Away,” from the It’s Only Rock ‘N Roll sessions, is charming and, for them, understated. We also finally get to hear a cleaned-up version of the Some Girls outtake “Fiji Jim,” a long-bootlegged Keith Richards raver that attains perfect decadent-Seventies sleaze. It’s too bad, though, that we don’t get to hear any of the rough early versions of these songs before they were manicured: What did “Waiting on a Friend” sound like during its gestation?

Thank God, or Jah, that they dropped the reggae version of “Start Me Up.”

Also included on Lost & Found is one of the earliest takes of that song, which was played reggae style at first. They made the right move in dumping those attempts: The version here is sluggish next to the take we all know.

Not really 'pounding the table' on buying this are they?

Traveling Man with finished lyrics would be better than anything on Tatoo You Deluxe.Ditto the beautiful Separately without Taylor’s lyrics and vocals

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Taylor1
Traveling Man with finished lyrics would be better

I still prefer "Windmill". The riffing on TM sounds thin and forgettable to me. WM has this fatglorious (open G?) riffing.

This being said I'm somewhat wary of what Mick did with the raw track... And I hope he worked on "Windmill" II that the version with the splendid MT slide parts.

From Steve Hoffman's music forum
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Tom Wabe
Forum Resident

OK - I've now heard Live at Wembley from this set - and.... I think it's the second night (unfortunately as I was at the first - see previous posts). Jagger's introduction to 'She's so Cold' is identical in its delivery to the partial video we have of night 2.. They then go into the song and the whole 'train wreck' intro guitar section has been cut out - the vocals come pretty much straight in.
__________

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sbetz
CamRS,

Good points but I think the actual cache of "fully-finished" outtakes is scant despite what KR might claim.

I think Keith really means what he says even though he might be caught up in his own "rainbow/unicorn" vision.
Take that Dean Goodman interview from 1998 :
[www.deangoodman.com]

He mentions a 1985 outtake “What You Gonna Tell Your Boyfriend?” that, according to him, has a real potential.
Well this track has circulated on the gray market and frankly it's not that remarkable (imo).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-21 15:41 by dcba.

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ironbelly
From Steve Hoffman's music forum
__________
Tom Wabe
Forum Resident

OK - I've now heard Live at Wembley from this set - and.... I think it's the second night (unfortunately as I was at the first - see previous posts). Jagger's introduction to 'She's so Cold' is identical in its delivery to the partial video we have of night 2.. They then go into the song and the whole 'train wreck' intro guitar section has been cut out - the vocals come pretty much straight in.
__________

Unfathomable. Must have been som trouble with the recording of the first show?

Yesterday i got the super deluxe edition from my local record dealer.

So far i haven´t had time to listen to the records, but at least i´ve looked at everthing.

I really like the picture on the box....how is it called...lenticular, wobbly or shaky picture?...you already know, just like the picture on TSMR.

The Gatefold Cover for Tattoo You and the Cover for "Lost & Found: Rarities" are nothing special.
At first glance, however, i think the book is wonderful and justifies the price for this edition.
The five records look good, no damage and apparently pressed clean.

Probably the bad thing is, ok - we knew it before, the mastering of the studio recordings were done by Stephen Marcussen.
Wembley Live was mastered by Sam Wheat. I hope that it did a lot better than with Voodoo Lounge Uncut.

What gives me hope for good sounding records is, that Bernie Grundman made the lacquer cut for the studio recordings

Preview-Snippets of the 9 'new' Tracks + Wembley '82 - [www.Qobuz.com] , longer: [Music.Apple.com] .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-21 15:00 by Irix.

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dcba

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sbetz
CamRS,

Good points but I think the actual cache of "fully-finished" outtakes is scant despite what KR might claim.

I think Keith really means what he says even though he might be caught up in his own "rainbow/licorn" vision.
Take that Dean Goodman interview from 1998 :
[www.deangoodman.com]

He mentions a 1985 outtake “What You Gonna Tell Your Boyfriend?” that, according to him, has a real potential.
Well this track has circulated on the gray market and frankly it's not that remarkable (imo).

Wow, great interview, I'd never seen this. Keith It helps that the interviewer knows his stuff and is not afraid to ask "real" questions. Keith talking about Brew and Stew, haha...
A bit sad in retrospect is that these days Keith is probably no longer in charge of getting the best possible band for Mick to sing with...

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Sounds good to me! But why did Mick add new vocs to Start Me Up? Also think that Fast Talking, Slow Walking sounded more authentic on Fully finished

2021 Hang Fire sounds bloody awesome in this snippet.

Rod

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Irix


Preview-Snippets of the 9 'new' Tracks + Wembley '82 - [www.Qobuz.com] , longer: [Music.Apple.com] .

Sounds fantastic

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henrik87
Sounds good to me! But why did Mick add new vocs to Start Me Up? Also think that Fast Talking, Slow Walking sounded more authentic on Fully finished

Well, I can not share your optimism.
I just pre-set my system for comfortable listening of old-good CP35-3032 black triangle Tattoo You CD from 1983 and switched to those snippets. The headphones just exploded and went for overload. If the mastering on new CDs is the same as for Apple samples, they will sound absolutely rubbish.

Great bonus stuff!!!

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DandelionPowderman

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Irix


Preview-Snippets of the 9 'new' Tracks + Wembley '82 - [www.Qobuz.com] , longer: [Music.Apple.com] .

Sounds fantastic

I love Come to the Ball

Me too!

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Mabru

Really curious who did the mixing of the Wembley show. I really hope it’s a Bob Clearmountain mix.

Unfortunately no: Mixing by Sam Wheat, Mastering by Mazen Murad - [www.Qobuz.com] - (i)-Button.

The TY-Album was mastered by Stephen Marcussen & Stewart Whitmore.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-21 16:10 by Irix.

Hm, Come To The Ball sounds familiar - is it on a bootleg as an instrumental version?

Punchy tune for sure.