"So, You’re Absolutely Certain You Want a Refund?"

Humor from the New Yorker

[www.newyorker.com]

Ah, would that it were that easy...

...three weeks after I got my chargeback after fighting with eventim for almost 4 months I have to say it is not over...

Today I got an e-mail from them that they realized the chargeback and that I have to pay the money back within 7 days or they will fine me... With no given reason. Would you believe it? They are threatening me. I have contacted my bank for an advice...

Please, avoid eventim.de. They are not only scams, they are criminals.

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Happy24

Today I got an e-mail from them that they realized the chargeback and that I have to pay the money back within 7 days or they will fine me... With no given reason.

Because you still have the valid Voucher. You can have only one thing: Money back OR the Voucher - but not both.

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Irix

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Happy24

Today I got an e-mail from them that they realized the chargeback and that I have to pay the money back within 7 days or they will fine me... With no given reason.

Because you still have the valid Voucher. You can have only one thing: Money back OR the Voucher - but not both.

Believe me, I will not use the voucher (I think you believe me :-), I know you know the case quite well). They can cancell it, do whatever they please... I didn't ask for it... besides, the voucher as they sent it is in contradiction with the German law (as I explained above). But they only demand the money and threaten me with a fine...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-22 23:19 by Happy24.

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Happy24

Believe me, I will not use the voucher (I think you believe me :-)

Tell them that the Voucher is useless for you - since it's only valid for Argo-concerts. Try to achieve that the issuer of the Voucher declares the Voucher invalid and that you can keep in return the Money.

Tell them that you'll never attend a different Argo-concert and that you've bought the Ticket only for the specific concert (now cancelled).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-23 00:10 by Irix.

I finally got a refund from Vividseat for my 3 tickets for the Buffalo show. At first, Vividseat refused to refund my tickets based on their policy (show postponed = no refund).
I complained to Visa and they took charge of the problem. Visa told me that my complain was raised within 80 days from purchasing date, so I was eligible for a refund. They contacted Vividseat. It took a couple of months and I honestly didn't hope that I would be refunded. To my surprise, 2 weeks ago, I got full refund.
Thanks Visa ;-)

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Irix

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Happy24

Believe me, I will not use the voucher (I think you believe me :-)

Tell them that the Voucher is useless for you - since it's only valid for Argo-concerts. Try to achieve that the issuer of the Voucher declares the Voucher invalid and that you can keep in return the Money.

Tell them that you'll never attend a different Argo-concert and that you've bought the Ticket only for the specific concert.

I told them that 2 months ago. I got a reply - that there was only one producer of the concert - Argo Konzerte. This is an absolute lie. Luckily I had scans of the tickets. Live Nation is writen 5 times (!) on each of them. What more can I do?

I gave all those things to the bank and they obviously agreed I was right. And of course I told the bank I got the "voucher." I told the bank everything and everything was true.

I didn't do the chargeback, the bank did. And they didn't do it right away. It took three months after we started to talk about it and one month after I sent them the last evidence - scans of the tickets and the eventim e-mail about the "one producer" thing plus the contradiction with the German law.

Eventim had obviously one month to give its statement before the bank did the chargeback. But it is me who is being threatened now. Sorry, I really can't feel guilty, I did all that I could and much more.

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Happy24

I gave all those things to the bank and they obviously agreed I was right. And of course I told the bank I got the "voucher." I told the bank everything and everything was true.

Yes, but your Bank is not the Tour-promoter or the Ticket-issuer. I think you'll need a lawyer to solve the problems. You alone against Eventim works probably poor ....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-23 00:35 by Irix.

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Irix

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Happy24

I gave all those things to the bank and they obviously agreed I was right. And of course I told the bank I got the "voucher." I told the bank everything and everything was true.

Yes, but your Bank is not the Tour-promoter or the Ticket-issuer. I think you'll need a lawyer to solve the problems. You alone against Eventim works probably poor ....

Get the credit card on file cancelled and have them reissue. You have the money back, they will void the voucher on their own. With no valid credit card and you being out of country there is nothing they can do.

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daspyknows

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Irix

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Happy24

I gave all those things to the bank and they obviously agreed I was right. And of course I told the bank I got the "voucher." I told the bank everything and everything was true.

Yes, but your Bank is not the Tour-promoter or the Ticket-issuer. I think you'll need a lawyer to solve the problems. You alone against Eventim works probably poor ....

Get the credit card on file cancelled and have them reissue. You have the money back, they will void the voucher on their own. With no valid credit card and you being out of country there is nothing they can do.

Thanks, daspy. An interesting advice, I am sure it would work. But I am sure they can not do anything just on their own, the bank would have to play part in that and I strongly believe I am right and that the bank will stand by it (I hope). Cancelling a card would feel like I would not have a good conscience.

I know you are trying to help and I might actually get robbed again... we shall see... but again... eventim had a month to give a statement to the bank, which they obviously didn't, or gave a lousy one. I just informed the bank and that is all I will do. I want to believe that is enough.

This is unbelievable. Couldn't they just cancel the voucher and be done with it?

Personally I would write them a letter containing two words and the first one begins with F.

Good luck

Nate

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daniel t
I finally got a refund from Vividseat for my 3 tickets for the Buffalo show. At first, Vividseat refused to refund my tickets based on their policy (show postponed = no refund).
I complained to Visa and they took charge of the problem. Visa told me that my complain was raised within 80 days from purchasing date, so I was eligible for a refund. They contacted Vividseat. It took a couple of months and I honestly didn't hope that I would be refunded. To my surprise, 2 weeks ago, I got full refund.
Thanks Visa ;-)

Wow. That’s crazy! Looks like Ticketmaster is easiest to get a refund through. And that’s not saying much. They are all rip off artists.

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Happy24

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Irix

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Happy24

Believe me, I will not use the voucher (I think you believe me :-)

Tell them that the Voucher is useless for you - since it's only valid for Argo-concerts. Try to achieve that the issuer of the Voucher declares the Voucher invalid and that you can keep in return the Money.

Tell them that you'll never attend a different Argo-concert and that you've bought the Ticket only for the specific concert.

I told them that 2 months ago. I got a reply - that there was only one producer of the concert - Argo Konzerte. This is an absolute lie. Luckily I had scans of the tickets. Live Nation is writen 5 times (!) on each of them. What more can I do?

I gave all those things to the bank and they obviously agreed I was right. And of course I told the bank I got the "voucher." I told the bank everything and everything was true.

I didn't do the chargeback, the bank did. And they didn't do it right away. It took three months after we started to talk about it and one month after I sent them the last evidence - scans of the tickets and the eventim e-mail about the "one producer" thing plus the contradiction with the German law.

Eventim had obviously one month to give its statement before the bank did the chargeback. But it is me who is being threatened now. Sorry, I really can't feel guilty, I did all that I could and much more.

What strikes me is the issue of the voucher that is worthless as in what show/tickets could you apply it to during COVID-19 ?

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TheGreek

What strikes me is the issue of the voucher that is worthless as in what show/tickets could you apply it to during COVID-19 ?

The Voucher is worthless in that sense that there's no alternative Show in which the original buyer is interested in (the original Show is cancelled). The other Shows provided by Argo Konzerte are simply boring.

The Voucher is intended for Shows past COVID-19 (not during). The Voucher should ensure that the Companies of the Show-Business don't get bankruptcy when they have to refund the entire Money from the Ticket-sales.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-23 21:50 by Irix.

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Irix

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TheGreek

What strikes me is the issue of the voucher that is worthless as in what show/tickets could you apply it to during COVID-19 ?

The Voucher is worthless in that sense that there's no alternative Show in which the original buyer is interested in (the original show is cancelled). The other Shows provided by Argo Konzerte are simply boring.

The Voucher is intended for Shows past COVID-19 (not during).

Wow, and incredible as who knows when COVID-19 will be over and when people can safely gather together in large numbers . COVID-19 has really exposed how scummy and seedy the concert touring industry really is and as always folks I can't stress this enough across the board about everything -buyer beware !

Even though it is against all common sense, Irix is unfortunately absolutely right in everyhing. That is the state of society (and laws) we are living in. At least in some countries.

Thank you, Irix, you gave a lot of valuable informatin in this thread.

I can't imagine to buy a concert ticket again. Surely not for a concert abroad. I would never imagine it would all end in such a sad way.

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TheGreek

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Irix

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TheGreek

What strikes me is the issue of the voucher that is worthless as in what show/tickets could you apply it to during COVID-19 ?

The Voucher is worthless in that sense that there's no alternative Show in which the original buyer is interested in (the original show is cancelled). The other Shows provided by Argo Konzerte are simply boring.

The Voucher is intended for Shows past COVID-19 (not during).

Wow, and incredible as who knows when COVID-19 will be over and when people can safely gather together in large numbers . COVID-19 has really exposed how scummy and seedy the concert touring industry really is and as always folks I can't stress this enough across the board about everything -buyer beware !

COVID-19 will not be over. We have to live with it.

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Happy24
...three weeks after I got my chargeback after fighting with eventim for almost 4 months I have to say it is not over...

Today I got an e-mail from them that they realized the chargeback and that I have to pay the money back within 7 days or they will fine me... With no given reason. Would you believe it? They are threatening me. I have contacted my bank for an advice...

Please, avoid eventim.de. They are not only scams, they are criminals.

ignore their request to send the money back. youre right they are criminals

Life's just a cocktail party on the street

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Happy24

Thank you, Irix, you gave a lot of valuable informatin in this thread.

My advice would be to contact Eventim, Argo Konzerte, Live Nation as well as the people who sent you the fine.

Write all of them the same letter (on paper) where you describe each point from the beginning of the Ticket-purchase step-by-step until now (Concert abroad, specific unique Concert, now cancelled, etc). Declare that you only wanna have the Money back and that you were forced to accept the unwanted Voucher due to the German law.

Probably it would have been much better to write such a letter before charging back the Money by your Bank. In Germany there's an issue with Eventim that they wanna only refund the costs of the Ticket itself since they say the booking-fees and postage for shipping were already fulfilled by Eventim. The only thing not fulfilled yet would be the Concert.


Since your issues concerns two EU-countries, you could also try to contact the European Consumer Protection - [www.evz.de] .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-24 16:15 by Irix.

Irix, thanks again, but it is over - I paid eventim back.

The European Consumer Protection might be good idea actually, but in the past 4 months there were many ideas that seemed to be good and none of it was any good in the end.

After I got the threatening from eventim, I contacted my bank. I got a reply that they can't help me and that in similar cases they advise custommers to block his card immediately and consult a lawyer. I was really surprized. We e-amiled about it for 3 months(!) and they never mentioned anything like that. This was my very first experience with chargeback (and also the last one, I am sure). I was communicating with the bank since May and the process itself took a month, where eventim and its bank had 30 days to object. They didn't, so the chargeback went ahead. I would not expect the bank only to advise me to block a card and get a lawyer, when a problem occurs then. I would not go for it, if I knew that, of course. What was that 3-month long theatre good for is beyond me.

I also wrote some e-mails to eventim this week again. Guess what? No reply.

I found on the internet exactly the same case as I was having - a guy who was even getting writen demands from eventim. They stopped bugging him only after he got a lawyer. But that guy was from Germany. I can't imagine going to a lawyer with this "international" case. A letter from lawyer would cost me more than those tickets and I can't imagaine getting the money that I would spend on a lawyer back from eventim.

Anyway - you also wrote that I should contact LiveNation and Argo. I contacted both of course before the chargeback. I explained that the concert was cancelled, that I was from abroad, that a voucher from Argo was absolutely useless for me... Livenation claimed they had nothing to do with it (I am sure it is a lie), that I had to contact Argo. From Argo I only got a very long generic e-mail, saying absolutely nothing about my particular case (I am not sending the whole e-mail, it is really long and says absolutely nothing):

"Dear Mr... for the coming summer months we have wished nothing more than to celebrate with you, artists and bands at festivals, open-air and other concert events and to enjoy live entertainment....blah, blah, blah...blah, blah, blah...After we have all weathered the COVID-19 crisis together, we are already looking forward to experiencing live entertainment with you. "

I spent unbelievable amount of time on this case, I tried everyhing I could think of, wrote to everybody I could think of, even studdied German laws. And I achieved absolutely nothing. In the end I paid even more than I did originally, because of the different Euro exchange rate.

Well, but what did I expect? Goverments are making new laws to protect scums like this against costummers. What chance does one really have? And those scums can really laugh at you and not even act according tho those laws (keeping the booking fees, while the law clearly says that the voucher must have at least a value of the tickets and ALL booking fees). One can get a lawyer...

It would be good if this bitter experience at least helped some people here...



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-26 22:12 by Happy24.

Going to get refunds Tuesday....for Nick cave/bad seeds....European tour canceled.....thought this may happen but alas not to be,,,,what a year! peace.M........I am exhausted.......let you know how that goes.....good night!

Went by my ticket outlet....I said i paid cash.here are my 2 tickets..you did here is your money....I did not want the money i wanted the concert.....all was well and the women said i wanted to go to the concert to!......maybe now 2022..........

This hypothetical question crossed my mind:

Let's say Ticketmaster is the official ticket outlet to a show, but you have bought your ticket to the same show from Vividseats or StubHub and the show gets postponed. You have no right to a refund in that case, according to those resale sites' terms and conditions.

However, would it be possible that the original buyer who listed the ticket on, say Vividseats, gets a refund for the ticket on Ticketmaster?

I hadn't thought of this before but doesn't it make sense? Why should Ticketmaster care or even know that their ticket has been resold on a broker site? The person/company who listed the ticket for resale still had to originally get it from TM - and thus would be entitled to a refund with TM!

Usually the resale sites void the original barcode and issue a new one so as to prevent multiple entries into the venue - and indeed, selling the same seat twice - but that's not an issue here if we're just talking about refunding a postponed concert.

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Topi

would it be possible that the original buyer who listed the ticket on, say Vividseats, gets a refund for the ticket on Ticketmaster?

Why not, if everything is ok with the Ticket. It would be the whole way back: the secondary Ticket-Buyer must contact the original Ticket-Buyer which in turn contacts the Ticket-Company. The Ticket-Company should give then a Refund (or Voucher) to the original Ticket-Buyer which in turn gives the Refund (or Voucher) to the secondary Ticket-Buyer. It just depends on whether everyone participates accordingly.

See the Coronavirus-Update on [Support.StubHub.com] :

"Q: We already paid you for tickets you sold to a canceled event. A: We will charge your credit card on file to reverse the transaction. Contact the original ticket company for a ticket refund."

"Q: You sold tickets to a postponed event. A: Wait until we email you; the event may be rescheduled or canceled. The original ticket company will contact us with event details."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-14 10:45 by Irix.

Yeah, but I'm talking about a situation where the person who re-sold the ticket somewhere else does NOT contact the secondary buyer, rather just pockets the refund (for a postponed event) for themselves without letting the secondary buyer (or Ticketmaster, for that matter!) know.

And therefore, the secondary buyer would be left with a "ticket" for the postponed show. They just wouldn't be able to get a refund for it with Vividseats/StubHub/whatever - unless the show gets cancelled. The ticket would have a new barcode, but since the same seat was refunded and put back on sale on Ticketmaster, it would not be valid for entry.

All the while, the original buyer still gets refunded by TM.

Would that be possible?

It may well be illegal (fraudulent), but would it be possible as a scenario?

Ticketmaster only keeps track of the original buyers and has entered a contract with them, right?. After that, it's fair game to sell a ticket somewhere else (usually). How can Ticketmaster know who sells which tickets and where?



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-14 11:45 by Topi.

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Topi

Would that be possible?

If the Event is postponed and the original Tickets are still valid for the new date, then no one should be able to get a Refund. If the Ticket-Company gives a Refund (or Voucher) then they should declare the original Ticket as invalid. Otherwise it would be an open door to fraud. Just my opinion.

Well, that part is true. If Ticketmaster gives a refund for the original ticket, the original ticket/seat of course goes back on sale on Ticketmaster. And therefore, the ticket sold on the secondary market is no longer valid.

All I was wondering is: because Ticketmaster is giving refunds for postponed events as we speak, but the resales sites are not, might there be an opportunity for scammers to exploit this? But hopefully not.

(Irix, I edited my "scenario" above a little bit)



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2020-12-14 11:47 by Topi.

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Topi

All I was wondering is: because Ticketmaster is giving refunds for postponed events as we speak, but the resales sites are not, might there be an opportunity for scammers to exploit this?

And all I wondering is: if Ticketmaster is giving refunds for postponed events - why should the original Tickets then still be valid?

You could sell such an original Ticket on a resale site - but the buyer won't be able to get into venue since the Ticket was made invalid by Ticketmaster.