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Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: September 30, 2020 13:03

Ok, I did a little homework.
We have a Guinea pig with Rare Reels – I Just Want To Make Love To You. This track is present at earlier releases:
1- HIGHWIRE (CD single), Rolling Stones Records 656756 2, March 25, 19 (marked here CBS 1991)
2 - RARITIES 1971-2003 (CD), Virgin 9463 47092 2 4 CDVX 3015 November 21, 2005 (marked Virgin 2005)
3 - THE ROLLING STONES SINGLES 1971-2006 (CD box set), Universal 06025 2760346 9 [Disc 31], April 11, 2011 (marked UM 2011)
and now on
RARE REELS, September 25, 2020 (marked UM 2020)
I know, it is a bit unfair to make this comparison because 1991-2005 releases were mixed and mastered differently. They were not for bootleg-like live series but for single release. But anyway.

CBS 1991 – DR 13

Sound clip 30 sec
[www.dropbox.com]

Virgin 2005 – DR 8

Sound clip 30 sec
[www.dropbox.com]

UM 2011 – DR 9

Sound clip 30 sec
[www.dropbox.com]

UM 2020 – DR6

Sound clip 30 sec
[www.dropbox.com]

It is clearly seen how brickwall develops. Even compressed 2005 and 2011 versions sound not THAT BAD. The main issue is not in the loudness. It is hidden in EQ choice. Here are frequency spectra for

CBS 1991 (Virgin 2005 and UM 2011 are similar to this one)


and

UM 2020


The difference is – they boost everything below 120 Hz in 2020. That is for not only hearing but also feeling bass. A kind of club type of experience (but do we really need it here?). We got bass overload on this record. Will it be played in clubs? Highly unlikely. The only thing that is in mind – they were trying to make a record that will sound good on cheap headphones with negligible bass response.

The other feature is a couple of deep and sharp dips. One can accept the one at ~4.2 kHz. Here we have the most tiring frequencies for the ear. The range around 3 kHz – probably something to do with vocals and shshshshshhhh sound (but this also remove part of high-hats). The one at ~7 kHz – were they trying to do de-essing? Anyway, these dips were made (peak filters were used) to take away annoying frequencies but look ugly and kind of amateurish.

Listening experience for Rare Reels is less than pleasant.

PS. shadooby – the disc as a physical media in my box is perfectly OK. I mean, no bugs in terms of pressing. Mix and mastering is another issue. If the used this tape you can change the box 100 times, but you’ll still get that weird record. Surely, one can ask if they used wrong tape for production. If they acknowledge the mistake, then it is possible to ask for a replacement disc.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: shadooby ()
Date: September 30, 2020 15:10

Do you have a contact to go about at least trying to get a replacement cd if one exists? Or maybe if enough of us complain they’ll come up with one. Maybe start a whole new thread? Thank you for confirming it was not just me. My ears are the best test for me.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: September 30, 2020 15:49

Quote
ironbelly
The only thing that is in mind – they were trying to make a record that will sound good on cheap headphones with negligible bass response.

This. thumbs up The industry has adjusted to new "nomadic" listening expriences. Hence brickwalled mastering and low end EQ.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: September 30, 2020 16:31

Quote
shadooby
Do you have a contact to go about at least trying to get a replacement cd if one exists? Or maybe if enough of us complain they’ll come up with one. Maybe start a whole new thread? Thank you for confirming it was not just me. My ears are the best test for me.
When Tokyo 1990 disc came with channels swap we contacted Eagle Rock via facebook with complains
[www.facebook.com]
They acknowledge channel swap and offered replacement.
I do not know if it will work this time. It is not a defect per se. It is just stupid mastering.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: klomadag007 ()
Date: September 30, 2020 19:30

I saw yesterday the DVD from Japan Show of the Steel Wheels Deluxe and it seems to be just a VHS transfer to DVD. Just a little embarrassing

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: AV83 ()
Date: September 30, 2020 20:14

Quote
shadooby
My ears are the best test for me.

That. Period.
They should remix and remaster Voodoo Lounge Uncut, Bremen, Buenos Aires, and Atlantic City.
I can't believe they released them like this.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: AV83 ()
Date: September 30, 2020 22:49

Quote
klomadag007
I saw yesterday the DVD from Japan Show of the Steel Wheels Deluxe and it seems to be just a VHS transfer to DVD. Just a little embarrassing

Not to mention that they released Blu Rays of concerts with VHS quality (VL, Atlantic City, Bremen, Buenos Aires), for which a DVD release was already overkill.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: September 30, 2020 23:04

All very interesting. The wave charts above really do show that the "UM 2020" release really did what I would recognize as "brickwalling" and the frequency distribution curves do reinforce that.

Personally i think the first example above is what is about perfect: not clipped and not even approaching clip even on the loudest passages and meanwhile a nice clean waveform showing lots of delineation between quietest and loudest passages. My idea of digital perfection, not that compressed and louded up mess in the most recent issue.

Making me want this less and less and now you say the blu ray is VHS quality? Thats ridiculous if true, that anyone would put such degraded signal onto what is presumed to be state of the art media and therefore one would assume the content would be up to it, quality wise. Something they would do in Jamaica.

jb

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: INDIANO ()
Date: September 30, 2020 23:07

Quote
AV83
Quote
shadooby
My ears are the best test for me.

That. Period.
They should remix and remaster Voodoo Lounge Uncut, Bremen, Buenos Aires, and Atlantic City.
I can't believe they released them like this.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: AV83 ()
Date: September 30, 2020 23:11

Unlike 'at the max', or 'ladies & gentlemen' the gig was filmed for a PPV TV quality 4:3 (super VGA at best) standard in 1989, which is totally comprehensible.
What's unbelievable is to actually have the guts to make a Blu Ray out of it.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: MonkeyMan2000 ()
Date: September 30, 2020 23:18

What else should they do? Release it on VHS in 2020? There's a lot of people who have never bought this show on bootleg and they want to buy it now officially. It is made clear that it's a SD Blu Ray. Personally, I think the picture quality is great.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: jbwelda ()
Date: September 30, 2020 23:19

>actually have the guts to make a Blu Ray out of it.

Thats what I was referring to, I mean, the recording is what it is, its what is implied by releasing it on a high quality format like blu ray that is the problem.

jb

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: tommycharles ()
Date: September 30, 2020 23:37

In case anyone was waiting for this to show up on US iTunes/Apple Music, it's there now (I assume on Spotify also).

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: September 30, 2020 23:40

Quote
tommycharles

In case anyone was waiting for this to show up on US iTunes/Apple Music, it's there now

Yep: [Music.Apple.com] .

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: floodonthepage ()
Date: September 30, 2020 23:41

Well, certainly a Blu-Ray of a PPV TV event won't look much better than a DVD of a PPT TV event, if at all...but the sound certainly stands to be better.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: AV83 ()
Date: October 1, 2020 00:49

Quote
MonkeyMan2000
What else should they do? Release it on VHS in 2020? There's a lot of people who have never bought this show on bootleg and they want to buy it now officially. It is made clear that it's a SD Blu Ray. Personally, I think the picture quality is great.

Well no, I'm just saying that DVD was certainly enough format-wise.
And for the sound of it... a digital download was sufficient.
Sorry I really don't want to sound as a hater here or annoy someone with my opinion.
I'm a fan as all of you.
But I always hoped for an official release of this concert, I had high hopes for it but I really don't like what I hear. I'm very, very disappointed about the way it sounds.

BTW, I read somewhere in this thread that the Blu Ray audio mix is somehow different from the CD/stremaing releases?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-10-01 00:49 by AV83.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: October 1, 2020 00:51

Quote
jbwelda
All very interesting. The wave charts above really do show that the "UM 2020" release really did what I would recognize as "brickwalling" and the frequency distribution curves do reinforce that.

Personally i think the first example above is what is about perfect: not clipped and not even approaching clip even on the loudest passages and meanwhile a nice clean waveform showing lots of delineation between quietest and loudest passages. My idea of digital perfection, not that compressed and louded up mess in the most recent issue.
Actually, all old CBS discs are mastered like that. Almost no compression and clipping.

Quote
jbwelda
Making me want this less and less and now you say the blu ray is VHS quality? Thats ridiculous if true, that anyone would put such degraded signal onto what is presumed to be state of the art media and therefore one would assume the content would be up to it, quality wise. Something they would do in Jamaica.

jb
I had an funny chat with the owner of the local record store last Saturday. I mentioned that he ordered all formats of Steel Wheels Live but DVD and 2CD/DVD. He proudly placed all those boxes together with Goats Head Soup Superdeluxe on the front display. His answer was - Nobody ask for DVD anymore. Everybody want Bluray. People have at home big screen HD TVs and they want the best video quality. I pointed him that it is SD Bluray and he gave me back a wink and a smile.

I believe some customers just want Bluray as a media without digging the details. It is like paying fortune for red vinyl if that one is sounding better than black winking smiley.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: flairville ()
Date: October 1, 2020 00:56

I have many of the live releases on DVD and Blu-ray, the picture quality is better on the Blu-ray and the song menu can be opened while a song is playing g rather than having to go back to the menu as you have to with a DVD. It’s not night and day but there is a difference. I’m sure some will say there isn’t but if you have the Steel Wheels box set compare the two discs, you’ll see a difference.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: shadooby ()
Date: October 1, 2020 01:53

I guess after all the complaining that I’ve done about the rare wheels cd I should note I’m very happy with the rest of the set. As far as the dvd or bluray debate, there is no doubt to these old eyes and ears the sound and video is clearer on bluray. I don’t see how anyone with a decent quality hdtv and sound system could say otherwise.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-10-01 02:30 by shadooby.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: October 1, 2020 01:55







ROCKMAN

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: shadooby ()
Date: October 1, 2020 02:14

Thank yuh....Thank yuh very much.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: October 1, 2020 11:33

Anyone know why you can't buy the stand alone Blu Ray on Amazon in America? They have a stand alone for sale but it's Region 2, that doesn't play on American Blu Ray players. I don't need the CDs, or a DVD.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: October 1, 2020 12:15

Quote
24FPS

Anyone know why you can't buy the stand alone Blu Ray on Amazon in America?

Stand-alone BR: [www.Amazon.com] . It's probably made in EU but the fine-print says: "Region A/B/C". So it should be playable worldwide.

Regions ABC (hexagonal logos + fine-print) are also shown on the BR+2CD: [www.YouTube.com] - (Pos. 0:20).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-10-01 12:25 by Irix.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: October 1, 2020 17:32

Keith’s soloing on Sad Sad Sad is on of my favorites! Somehow it’s better with video.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: ironbelly ()
Date: October 1, 2020 17:41

Was it already mentioned here?
They doctored audio and used different angle for video for Undercover at the moment Mick crashed his mike. Check mark 14.11-14.14 on official DVD and compare in to old Jointrip or other release.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-10-01 18:02 by ironbelly.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: maumau ()
Date: October 1, 2020 18:07

great memories since the urban jungle tour was my first rs show but the overproduction of the show is almost unbearable now to watch/listen. though keith is probably at his top as a mature musician here (talk is cheap is one year old then!) and you can hear in his soloing, the band as a unit is lost in the production. examples: undercover, I would take the Shine a light trainwreck extra anytime before this, same with Bitch compared to the last recorded version on the Fonda theatre show. Midnight rambler, any "exhausting" long version from the latest tours I do prefer. 2000 light years from Glansto with Mick out of key I do prefer to this hyper-choreographed cheesy-synthesized version.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: October 1, 2020 18:26

Quote
maumau
great memories since the urban jungle tour was my first rs show but the overproduction of the show is almost unbearable now to watch/listen. though keith is probably at his top as a mature musician here (talk is cheap is one year old then!) and you can hear in his soloing, the band as a unit is lost in the production. examples: undercover, I would take the Shine a light trainwreck extra anytime before this, same with Bitch compared to the last recorded version on the Fonda theatre show. Midnight rambler, any "exhausting" long version from the latest tours I do prefer. 2000 light years from Glansto with Mick out of key I do prefer to this hyper-choreographed cheesy-synthesized version.

You got me to look up that 2000 Light Years. Charlie flubbed the intro, second time around he got it and Mick gave him a thumbs up, Charlie smiles.

Yeah he was out of key the first round. He got it but was a bit sharp in the choruses.

Re: New Bluray / Atlántic City 89
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: October 1, 2020 18:39

Quote
Irix
Contents of CD3:

Steel Wheels Rare Reels

01. Play With Fire (CNE Stadium/Toronto/Sept. 3, 1989)
02. Dead Flowers (CNE Stadium/Toronto/Sept. 3, 1989)
03. Almost Hear You Sigh (Wembley Stadium/London/July 6, 1990)
04. I Just Want To Make Love To You (Wembley Stadium/London/July 6, 1990)
05. Street Fighting Man (Wembley Stadium/London/July 6, 1990)
06. 1989 Interview [Japanese Bonus-Track] - (previously released on Promo-Interview-CD)

[www.Universal-Music.co.jp]




2nd DVD: Live in Japan - Tokyo Dome, 24-Feb-1990

Does anyone think Street Fighting Man is edited?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-10-01 18:48 by exilestones.

Re: New Bluray / Atlántic City 89
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: October 1, 2020 18:50

Street Fighting Man from At the Max is from August 25, 1990.

Re: Steel Wheels Live - Atlantic City - out September 25
Posted by: fuwa ()
Date: October 1, 2020 19:31

Quote
shadooby
Quote
ironbelly
Just got my superdeluxe.
I must admit that Rare Reels were mastered by big fun of Bill Wyman. I would say - a bit too much bass.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Now I know I'm not losing it. Mine was so awful and distorted all to hell I sent it back to Amazon and got a replacement, I figured must be a defective cd, same freakin thing!!! I should've just settled for the not so super-dee-duper just-gotta-have-it edition. Do the people who do the mastering even sit down and listen to these brickwalled cd's on a decent sound system before hitting the send button to the manufacturing department to go ahead a make the final pressings for eternity???...WHOEVER MASTERED RARE REELS OUGHT TO BE TAKEN OUT BEHIND THE GYM...COME ON MAN!!!

You should post a review on Amazon so people don’t get duped into spending more money on a “deluxe” box set to obtain a poorly mixed rare wheels; wasn’t that great of a deal anyway, should have included Factory Girl and One Hit To The Body.

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