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fuwa
How is the sound quality on CD 3? I would like to know so I can decide whether to purchase the deluxe edition. 2 conflicting posts so far.

I'll let you know, got a return coming from amazon. The one I got is terrible. I had tracks to compare side by side from boots and OFFICIAL cd singles and it was night and day. In fact cd 3 would not even play on one of my cd decks and I've never had that happen with an official release.

P.S. Got the replacement today, CD 3 still sounds like crap, guess I'm stuck with it. 2 of the discs were also flopping around as loose as an old man's nuts just as the previous box.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-29 00:38 by shadooby.

Listening to Keith's playing here is truly a revelation - he was playing extremely well in 1989. This show has two interesting things happening simultaneously:

- the introduction of the "it doesn't matter if Keith turns up" arrangement. This was the first time a Rolling Stones show had sufficient backing for songs to keep going without Keith. From the second song - Chuck plays the guitar intro on keys, and between the keys and the horns the song rolls along quite nicely without regard to the guitars. And this is even a track which was played live in earlier eras - on the newer additions to the set, from things like Harlem Shuffle to older-but-new-to-the-stage songs like Ruby Tuesday, the core band is Mick, Charlie, Bill, Chuck, Matt and the horns, and the guitarists can jump in or not as decoration.

- BUT - he plays anyway. A lot. Listening to Keith's channel during the aforementioned Bitch is just glorious. He hops on and off of the main riff to take various detours that keep the song intense and interesting. Tracks he used to drive, like Miss You, are different when Chuck holds the reins, but here he's using his new freedom to find other things to play, to take the song to new places.

In some ways it's not a massive surprise that on future tours, the fact that he didn't _have_ to play very much would lead to him not playing very much. But in this show, in the first year of it, he's as engaged as ever, a different player than in '82, but in some ways a better one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-28 06:05 by tommycharles.

KR's best version ever. 1988 to 1995.
2 great tours

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Cooltoplady

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Sighunt

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Taylor1

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ds1984
It was the Stones back into live business and they were seriously on top. Ok, Voodoo Lounge Tour was even better.

The Atlantic City PPV is in my top five favourite concert.

The band was better on Steel Wheels Tour than Voodoo Lounge.Jones was a minus from Bill.Keith never played better than he did on Steel Wheels tour

Agreed!

Naw. Dont believe it. He was way better during the Voodoo Lounge tour.

The way Keith played solo on Sad Sad Sad says it all: Steel Wheels a bit better than Voodoo Lounge tour. Though some songs were played better during Voodoo.

Plus Bill Wyman bass (sound). It rolls, it swings! It's a distinctive sound.

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glimmertwin1

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ironbelly
I just wonder what they were trying to hide from us making dips is frequency spectrum at ~3 kHz and ~4.2 kHz


And this is from TSP bootleg. No candy either.


And for those who claim the old bootleg is better. It is compressed and brickwalled too. But the height of the wall is slightly lower .

New Sad, Sad, Sad


Sad, Sad, Sad from TSP

The boot is a 30 years old FM / TV recording - there was now things like modern CD brickwalling ...

Hate to tell you, but compressors were used long-long time ago for radio transmissions. TSP release has worth DR levels comparing to the recent official release. I.e. most of the tracks are of DR5. Sure, it is not that loud because the peaks are in the range of ~-2dB vs. -0.3 - -1.3dB for official one. Also, bootleg is full of really disturbing mid-range frequencies. All those tststsstss for 2+ something hours are really disturbing. That is why I let TSP release collect dust on the shelve.

Keith's solo on Sad Sad Sad is fantastic.
1989 is very far...

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

It‘s a lot of fun to watch Keith playing these long solos running around and posing and I think it fits the style of the tour and the late 80s in general. But listening to it without the video I think this style is a lot less enjoyable than the second half of the 90s. Keith for me is about playing the right notes with style and taste and he went back to that around 95. So I wouldn‘t say that the 89 Keith is him at his best, but he might have been at his fastest. I can picture 72 Keith yelling at his 89 self to stop noodling if they were standing on the same stage ;-)
But as I said, it sure is amazing to watch his performance and admire his stage presence!

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ironbelly

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glimmertwin1

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ironbelly
I just wonder what they were trying to hide from us making dips is frequency spectrum at ~3 kHz and ~4.2 kHz


And this is from TSP bootleg. No candy either.


And for those who claim the old bootleg is better. It is compressed and brickwalled too. But the height of the wall is slightly lower .

New Sad, Sad, Sad


Sad, Sad, Sad from TSP

The boot is a 30 years old FM / TV recording - there was now things like modern CD brickwalling ...

Hate to tell you, but compressors were used long-long time ago for radio transmissions. TSP release has worth DR levels comparing to the recent official release. I.e. most of the tracks are of DR5. Sure, it is not that loud because the peaks are in the range of ~-2dB vs. -0.3 - -1.3dB for official one. Also, bootleg is full of really disturbing mid-range frequencies. All those tststsstss for 2+ something hours are really disturbing. That is why I let TSP release collect dust on the shelve.

I know - 30 Years ago this mid-range hissy noise was really prominent -

now I can' t hear it as intense (30 Years later )

OK turning up the Volume I still hear the hissy noise

Well...


In this case, with all these reservations about 1989... what about his playing in general, his performances and solos later, and especially since 2015 ???

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MonkeyMan2000
It‘s a lot of fun to watch Keith playing these long solos running around and posing and I think it fits the style of the tour and the late 80s in general. But listening to it without the video I think this style is a lot less enjoyable than the second half of the 90s. Keith for me is about playing the right notes with style and taste and he went back to that around 95. So I wouldn‘t say that the 89 Keith is him at his best, but he might have been at his fastest. I can picture 72 Keith yelling at his 89 self to stop noodling if they were standing on the same stage ;-)
But as I said, it sure is amazing to watch his performance and admire his stage presence!

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

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powerage78
Well...


In this case, with all these reservations about 1989... what about his playing in general, his performances and solos later, and especially since 2015 ???

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MonkeyMan2000
It‘s a lot of fun to watch Keith playing these long solos running around and posing and I think it fits the style of the tour and the late 80s in general. But listening to it without the video I think this style is a lot less enjoyable than the second half of the 90s. Keith for me is about playing the right notes with style and taste and he went back to that around 95. So I wouldn‘t say that the 89 Keith is him at his best, but he might have been at his fastest. I can picture 72 Keith yelling at his 89 self to stop noodling if they were standing on the same stage ;-)
But as I said, it sure is amazing to watch his performance and admire his stage presence!

It's another story!

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glimmertwin1

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ironbelly

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glimmertwin1

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ironbelly
I just wonder what they were trying to hide from us making dips is frequency spectrum at ~3 kHz and ~4.2 kHz


And this is from TSP bootleg. No candy either.


And for those who claim the old bootleg is better. It is compressed and brickwalled too. But the height of the wall is slightly lower .

New Sad, Sad, Sad


Sad, Sad, Sad from TSP

The boot is a 30 years old FM / TV recording - there was now things like modern CD brickwalling ...

Hate to tell you, but compressors were used long-long time ago for radio transmissions. TSP release has worth DR levels comparing to the recent official release. I.e. most of the tracks are of DR5. Sure, it is not that loud because the peaks are in the range of ~-2dB vs. -0.3 - -1.3dB for official one. Also, bootleg is full of really disturbing mid-range frequencies. All those tststsstss for 2+ something hours are really disturbing. That is why I let TSP release collect dust on the shelve.

I know - 30 Years ago this mid-range hissy noise was really prominent -

now I can' t hear it as intense (30 Years later )

OK turning up the Volume I still hear the hissy noise

Which one would you say is the best sounding unofficial release of this concert?
PPV? TSP? Wolfgang's?
For me it's Wolfgang's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-28 17:34 by AV83.

Yikes, a lot of what I'm reading makes me relieved I didn't get the super deluxe, even though I was really tempted as is this an all-time show for me.

I guess I'll just have to make sure my blu-ray plays properly.

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AV83

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glimmertwin1

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ironbelly

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glimmertwin1

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ironbelly
I just wonder what they were trying to hide from us making dips is frequency spectrum at ~3 kHz and ~4.2 kHz


And this is from TSP bootleg. No candy either.


And for those who claim the old bootleg is better. It is compressed and brickwalled too. But the height of the wall is slightly lower .

New Sad, Sad, Sad


Sad, Sad, Sad from TSP

The boot is a 30 years old FM / TV recording - there was now things like modern CD brickwalling ...

Hate to tell you, but compressors were used long-long time ago for radio transmissions. TSP release has worth DR levels comparing to the recent official release. I.e. most of the tracks are of DR5. Sure, it is not that loud because the peaks are in the range of ~-2dB vs. -0.3 - -1.3dB for official one. Also, bootleg is full of really disturbing mid-range frequencies. All those tststsstss for 2+ something hours are really disturbing. That is why I let TSP release collect dust on the shelve.

I know - 30 Years ago this mid-range hissy noise was really prominent -

now I can' t hear it as intense (30 Years later )

OK turning up the Volume I still hear the hissy noise

Which one would you say is the best sounding unofficial release of this concert?
PPV? TSP? Wolfgang's?
For me it's Wolfgang's.

They're all the same mix (PPV), aren't they? Only marginally differently mastered/EQ'd.

In the old days, before many of you were born, you got a record. That was it. Then you could discuss the recording here. The sound, the songs and so on. That seems to be history now. Now you discuss which of the one hundred options you opted for. Or which booklet to choose. I got the japanese editon with 35 cd:s, 14 dvd:s, 10 blu-rays, 5 t-shirts and a smaller library of booklets. With a sticker on the sealed cover! There you go...

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DandelionPowderman

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AV83

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glimmertwin1

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ironbelly

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glimmertwin1

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ironbelly
I just wonder what they were trying to hide from us making dips is frequency spectrum at ~3 kHz and ~4.2 kHz


And this is from TSP bootleg. No candy either.


And for those who claim the old bootleg is better. It is compressed and brickwalled too. But the height of the wall is slightly lower .

New Sad, Sad, Sad


Sad, Sad, Sad from TSP

The boot is a 30 years old FM / TV recording - there was now things like modern CD brickwalling ...

Hate to tell you, but compressors were used long-long time ago for radio transmissions. TSP release has worth DR levels comparing to the recent official release. I.e. most of the tracks are of DR5. Sure, it is not that loud because the peaks are in the range of ~-2dB vs. -0.3 - -1.3dB for official one. Also, bootleg is full of really disturbing mid-range frequencies. All those tststsstss for 2+ something hours are really disturbing. That is why I let TSP release collect dust on the shelve.

I know - 30 Years ago this mid-range hissy noise was really prominent -

now I can' t hear it as intense (30 Years later )

OK turning up the Volume I still hear the hissy noise

Which one would you say is the best sounding unofficial release of this concert?
PPV? TSP? Wolfgang's?
For me it's Wolfgang's.

They're all the same mix (PPV), aren't they? Only marginally differently mastered/EQ'd.

Not Wolfgang's. It's from the Graham archive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-28 19:44 by AV83.

Was this a Bill Graham produced event? If not, how would Wolfies have an exclusive version of it and not the radio transmission as I thought all unofficial shows were sourced from? I thought everything in Wolfgang's vault was sourced from recordings made for posterity by the Graham organization. True?

My Crystal Cat release of the show doesn't have all that much mid range hiss unless my hearing has been dampened with age. Well yeah it has but i still hear that in other radio broadcast sourced boots but not my Atlantic City 89.

Anyone else know this CC version? Is it the same as the TSP one?

Cannabis: a great dynamic range expander.

jb

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AV83

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DandelionPowderman

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AV83

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glimmertwin1

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ironbelly

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glimmertwin1

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ironbelly
I just wonder what they were trying to hide from us making dips is frequency spectrum at ~3 kHz and ~4.2 kHz


And this is from TSP bootleg. No candy either.


And for those who claim the old bootleg is better. It is compressed and brickwalled too. But the height of the wall is slightly lower .

New Sad, Sad, Sad


Sad, Sad, Sad from TSP

The boot is a 30 years old FM / TV recording - there was now things like modern CD brickwalling ...

Hate to tell you, but compressors were used long-long time ago for radio transmissions. TSP release has worth DR levels comparing to the recent official release. I.e. most of the tracks are of DR5. Sure, it is not that loud because the peaks are in the range of ~-2dB vs. -0.3 - -1.3dB for official one. Also, bootleg is full of really disturbing mid-range frequencies. All those tststsstss for 2+ something hours are really disturbing. That is why I let TSP release collect dust on the shelve.

I know - 30 Years ago this mid-range hissy noise was really prominent -

now I can' t hear it as intense (30 Years later )

OK turning up the Volume I still hear the hissy noise

Which one would you say is the best sounding unofficial release of this concert?
PPV? TSP? Wolfgang's?
For me it's Wolfgang's.

They're all the same mix (PPV), aren't they? Only marginally differently mastered/EQ'd.

Not Wolfgang's I think.

This one [www.wolfgangs.com]

??? Less hissy than the TSP and a tad to slow ???

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jbwelda
Was this a Bill Graham produced event? If not, how would Wolfies have an exclusive version of it and not the radio transmission as I thought all unofficial shows were sourced from? I thought everything in Wolfgang's vault was sourced from recordings made for posterity by the Graham organization. True?

My Crystal Cat release of the show doesn't have all that much mid range hiss unless my hearing has been dampened with age. Well yeah it has but i still hear that in other radio broadcast sourced boots but not my Atlantic City 89.

Anyone else know this CC version? Is it the same as the TSP one?

Cannabis: a great dynamic range expander.

jb

In addition to a "great dynamic expander " it also opens your mind and relaxes your soul

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glimmertwin1

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AV83

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DandelionPowderman

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AV83

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glimmertwin1

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ironbelly

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glimmertwin1

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ironbelly
I just wonder what they were trying to hide from us making dips is frequency spectrum at ~3 kHz and ~4.2 kHz


And this is from TSP bootleg. No candy either.


And for those who claim the old bootleg is better. It is compressed and brickwalled too. But the height of the wall is slightly lower .

New Sad, Sad, Sad


Sad, Sad, Sad from TSP

The boot is a 30 years old FM / TV recording - there was now things like modern CD brickwalling ...

Hate to tell you, but compressors were used long-long time ago for radio transmissions. TSP release has worth DR levels comparing to the recent official release. I.e. most of the tracks are of DR5. Sure, it is not that loud because the peaks are in the range of ~-2dB vs. -0.3 - -1.3dB for official one. Also, bootleg is full of really disturbing mid-range frequencies. All those tststsstss for 2+ something hours are really disturbing. That is why I let TSP release collect dust on the shelve.

I know - 30 Years ago this mid-range hissy noise was really prominent -

now I can' t hear it as intense (30 Years later )

OK turning up the Volume I still hear the hissy noise

Which one would you say is the best sounding unofficial release of this concert?
PPV? TSP? Wolfgang's?
For me it's Wolfgang's.

They're all the same mix (PPV), aren't they? Only marginally differently mastered/EQ'd.

Not Wolfgang's I think.

This one [www.wolfgangs.com]

??? Less hissy than the TSP and a tad to slow ???

Exactly

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jbwelda
Was this a Bill Graham produced event? If not, how would Wolfies have an exclusive version of it and not the radio transmission as I thought all unofficial shows were sourced from? I thought everything in Wolfgang's vault was sourced from recordings made for posterity by the Graham organization. True?

My Crystal Cat release of the show doesn't have all that much mid range hiss unless my hearing has been dampened with age. Well yeah it has but i still hear that in other radio broadcast sourced boots but not my Atlantic City 89.

Anyone else know this CC version? Is it the same as the TSP one?

Cannabis: a great dynamic range expander.

jb

Yes, the tape belonged/belongs to Graham's archive.
In fact if you scroll down to the bottom of the song list in the link shared by Glimmertwin1, it's credited to him.
The best version of this show, to my ears. Although tape seems to be damaged on some of the songs (middle of SOTT to Boogie Chillen or YCAGWYW if I'm not mistaken), but the rest is pristine.

Never heard the CC version



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-28 19:50 by AV83.

Wolfgang s version is not complete also - but I'm not willing to buy Atlantic City once again . no no no

What do you mean. All songs are there.
Only it's divided in set 1 & set 2.
If you want a really good sounding version of this concert, that's the one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-28 21:24 by AV83.

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AV83
What do you mean. All songs are there.
Only it's divided in set 1 & set 2.
If you want a really good sounding version of this concert, that's the one.

Set2 is incomplete (the download)

[www.wolfgangs.com]

I can see that Brown Sugar JJF and some others are missing in the list.
It's weird tho, I bought it there a while back and got those songs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-28 22:22 by AV83.

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AV83

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jbwelda
Was this a Bill Graham produced event? If not, how would Wolfies have an exclusive version of it and not the radio transmission as I thought all unofficial shows were sourced from? I thought everything in Wolfgang's vault was sourced from recordings made for posterity by the Graham organization. True?

My Crystal Cat release of the show doesn't have all that much mid range hiss unless my hearing has been dampened with age. Well yeah it has but i still hear that in other radio broadcast sourced boots but not my Atlantic City 89.

Anyone else know this CC version? Is it the same as the TSP one?

Cannabis: a great dynamic range expander.

jb

Yes, the tape belonged/belongs to Graham's archive.
In fact if you scroll down to the bottom of the song list in the link shared by Glimmertwin1, it's credited to him.
The best version of this show, to my ears. Although tape seems to be damaged on some of the songs (middle of SOTT to Boogie Chillen or YCAGWYW if I'm not mistaken), but the rest is pristine.

Never heard the CC version

Graham was out of the picture by 1989. How would he obtain recording rights for this show when it was Michael Cohl (his competitor) who ran this?

I don't know really, but that's just how it is.
Not the same PPV mix, the thing was in his archive.

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slowhand

The Little Red Rooster mix on Flashpoint is very good, no doubt, to me, the difference is that Charlie and especially Chuck are more prominent in the mix compared to the new release. That doesn’t make the new mix bad, just different. For you to say the new mix sounds terrible is wrong, Charlie and Mick don’t sound bad and the mix isn’t muddy, you’re in the minority on this one. You expect them to go back to a 1991 CD release with one song from Atlantic City on it and mix the whole show like that, or you want them to mix it like Tokyo, a completely different show, it doesn’t work that way.

No, I'm not expecting them to go back to 91 or any of that... I'm just using that as an audio quality reference, which I prefer. Not taking shots at anybody for not sharing my view tho, just my take on it. Some may like it, some may have expected something else/better. 
To me, (and many more from what I've read through this thread), a release from 91 sounds better than the one we got on 2020. 
Doesn't sound right. I feel they could have done such a much better job with it.
Another official release with bootleg quality.
Not trying to go against anybody here, don't get offended.
Unless it's you who mixed it

We all hear things differently, no doubt about that. But to call this 'bootleg quality' is wrong.

Well, it may be wrong for you.
Certainly not for me.
The last live official release from an old concert that I can recall, that sounds the way it should is Totally Stripped.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020-09-28 23:42 by AV83.

Sam Wheat did an awesome mix with the La Forum movie gig plus the remix of Hyde Park 69. After that its completely downhill and a shame that they still use him.
I do miss Bob Clearmountain and Ed Cherney..