I've looked - I've yet to see anything about how many tracks are on the single, regardless of its format.

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georgie48



Here you go, Doxa. Indeed, it's the audience that matters any and every time. Newspaper reporters are among the most subjective people one can think of. What matters to them is that as many people as possible read their story/opinion. Sometimes it results in a good article, but much too often not. Newspapers were originally created to report about news, not opinions. But just like many DJs/VJs etc., too many are no longer entertaining the audience but are merely promoting themselves, making themselves in to "stars".
Living In A Ghost Town is liked, loved, adored by a fast majority of Stones fans and even non-Stones fans. And that's what really matters.

Yeah, indeed. When it comes to judging the greatness, or lack of it, of art, some artists have simply grown bigger than any personal opinion of some individual critic. I mean, if one decides to claim that Beethoven or Picasso or Dostojevsky is 'over-rated' or even 'shit', well, that tells more about the person saying such things than anything else. Mostly like it will be like 'look, how I am making a difference as a critic, am I such an individual saying something novel now?' A healthy response will be 'hey dude, you are probably thinking a bit too much of yourself, and of your personal opinion - yes, we all have one arsehole, but the rest of us are not so proud of spreading its results all over the town'. The same goes for judging some major figures in pop music - they have a long time ago transcended the realm of any criticism having any say any longer. I mean, what is there to say to dispute the merits of, say, the Beatles, The Stones or Dylan? Critics come and go, like arseholes, but those artists have not just changed the face of pop music as we know it, but they have passed the test of time and people still listen them, shit, 50 years after their true heyday. Anything and everything will always be judged against their doings.

I personally respect The Guardian very much - one of the best and trusted newspapers around - but this particular list of British number ones just sounds like them being a bit too full of themselves - the smell of their own arsehole stinks a bit too much.

- Doxa



Edited 9 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-05 00:52 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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CaptainCorella
Right at the start of this thread, mention was made of comparisons (none really, other than a word or two in the title) with The Specials single of a similar name.

That single has now been listed in the UK Guardian as the second best No1 single ever.

For more... [www.theguardian.com]

The Guardian has taken a classical English attitude in making charts... the great good old tradition of NME, Melody Maker, etc. to emphasize not so obvious British acts by the cost of the acts making it too big internationally. The Specials song is a great one indeed, but c'mon... it is no "Satisfaction"... (I wonder how much the new single by the Stones helped to remember the significance of that old Specials hit.)

However, making it a bit more poshy English, they should have picked up "The Last Time" from The Stones - it actually sold more copies in UK than "Satisfaction" did, and it having such a breakthrough appeal there domestically as "Satisfaction" did internationally (read: in America)...

- Doxa

Take the time to read the introduction to the list. See [www.theguardian.com]

You'll learn that it does not represent itself as anything other than the SUBJECTIVE view of a group of Guardian writers. That's upfront and fair enough in my view.

--
Captain Corella
60 Years a Fan

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CaptainCorella

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Doxa

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CaptainCorella
Right at the start of this thread, mention was made of comparisons (none really, other than a word or two in the title) with The Specials single of a similar name.

That single has now been listed in the UK Guardian as the second best No1 single ever.

For more... [www.theguardian.com]

The Guardian has taken a classical English attitude in making charts... the great good old tradition of NME, Melody Maker, etc. to emphasize not so obvious British acts by the cost of the acts making it too big internationally. The Specials song is a great one indeed, but c'mon... it is no "Satisfaction"... (I wonder how much the new single by the Stones helped to remember the significance of that old Specials hit.)

However, making it a bit more poshy English, they should have picked up "The Last Time" from The Stones - it actually sold more copies in UK than "Satisfaction" did, and it having such a breakthrough appeal there domestically as "Satisfaction" did internationally (read: in America)...

- Doxa

Take the time to read the introduction to the list. See [www.theguardian.com]

You'll learn that it does not represent itself as anything other than the SUBJECTIVE view of a group of Guardian writers. That's upfront and fair enough in my view.

That's fair enough. But still I would say what is really the merit of such 'subjective' view of such a group? What we do with it? What it actually says? Who are they actually to weigh their personal opinion so high? What it is the merit in terms of criticism or journalism? I mean, we could gather such a list among ourselves here at IORR, or anyone on the street, since all us have arseholes as well, and democracy rules, but would it be something to publish in a respected journal? If the question would be someone else than some nobody journalists, such as musicians or people like that, we might be interested in hearing their opinion. Those opinions might have some journalist value in itself. I mean, like 'the best English number ones according to Keith Richards' might have some point of interest. But what shit we do with some contingent opinions of some random Guardian journalists!

The thing is, for sure, that lists like that are made just for fun. But hell, I ask more from journalism! The Guardian should know better!

- Doxa



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-05 01:33 by Doxa.

Awwwww yeah can remember the old greatest
albums of all time lists from say 20 years ago .....

UK would always be Sgt Pepper ...
While the USA would always be Thriller



ROCKMAN

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Rockman
Awwwww yeah can remember the old greatest
albums of all time lists from say 20 years ago .....

UK would always be Sgt Pepper ...
While the USA would always be Thriller

Yeah, and nobody knew the greatest hits list of China at the time, while their population was almost twice as high as that of the USA and (western) Europe together
By the way, how would Living In A Ghost Town do (have done) there? The streets were very, very empty at some point.

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Doxa
But hell, I ask more from journalism!grinning smiley The Guardian should know better

What did you expect? 25 Rolling Stones songs on the list? Did you read the introduction? Only once can an artist be represented on the list. And it's only number one positions on the list. The Rolling stones is represented on position 26 on their, subjective, list. One has to bear in mind that artists like Westlife, Take That, Calvin Harris, Spice Girls, Frankie Lane and Ed Sheeran were always more successful on the UK Top Hundred than The Rolling Stones. At least when we are talking number one hits. Which this list is about. The Rolling Stones had 8 number one hits on the UK Top Hundred. And they spent 18 weeks altogether on the list. Their last number one hit was in 1969 (HTW) by the way. More than 50 years ago. So the Guardian list isn't that hard on "our" group as we might think. In fact they are very close to the official statistics.

Watched the original video to this last night. Really enjoyed it. I really like this song.

Rod

Quote
Rockman
Awwwww yeah can remember the old greatest
albums of all time lists from say 20 years ago .....

UK would always be Sgt Pepper ...
While the USA would always be Thriller

There was a time when any UK greatest albums list would inevitably be won by Radiohead's OK Computer.

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Green Lady

Quote
Rockman
Awwwww yeah can remember the old greatest
albums of all time lists from say 20 years ago .....

UK would always be Sgt Pepper ...
While the USA would always be Thriller

There was a time when any UK greatest albums list would inevitably be won by Radiohead's OK Computer.

For reasons that completely escape me. I have tried numerous times to get into OK Computer, every time to no avail. It’s adventurous, yes, but it’s dull, cold twaddle too. Completely soulless.

Rod



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-05 13:41 by bitusa2012.

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Stoneage

Quote
Doxa
But hell, I ask more from journalism!grinning smiley The Guardian should know better

What did you expect? 25 Rolling Stones songs on the list? Did you read the introduction? Only once can an artist be represented on the list. And it's only number one positions on the list. The Rolling stones is represented on position 26 on their, subjective, list. One has to bear in mind that artists like Westlife, Take That, Calvin Harris, Spice Girls, Frankie Lane and Ed Sheeran were always more successful on the UK Top Hundred than The Rolling Stones. At least when we are talking number one hits. Which this list is about. The Rolling Stones had 8 number one hits on the UK Top Hundred. And they spent 18 weeks altogether on the list. Their last number one hit was in 1969 (HTW) by the way. More than 50 years ago. So the Guardian list isn't that hard on "our" group as we might think. In fact they are very close to the official statistics.

I know your tendency to put down the Stones in every possible occasion, but that's nice because I get an excuse to defend them against such unjustified criticism (a bit odd in a Rolling Stones fan site, though).

Hmmm... It is nice that you discovered a couple of pop artists being able to have one or two more number ones against the eight by the Stones. And seemingly The Stones number ones doesn't even count because it's been such a long time ago. I guess the same holds for the Beatles, them topping the charts last time with a new single in 1969. Who remember them when we have people like Calvin Harris and Ed Sheeran around? Anyway, no matter how much you want to downplay the success of the Stones, or history, they actually have been a very popular hit act in their homeland. They are in a position of #13 in the all-time list of number ones. Now if the greatness is counted by top one success, the position of #26 by the Stones with "Satisfaction" doesn't translate very well. And if that stupid criterion is the one we use, how would we explain the #2 by The Specials?

Anyway, I don't think counting the amount of number ones by an artist is any kind of criterion to judge one particular number one hit (and the Guardian people didn't use that either). Who cares if it is a kind of one hit wonder in question if the song is pure dynamite and memorable? And in the case of "Satisfaction" we are not picking up some flavor of the month type, long forgotten hit, but an anthem of an era. If the most well-known rock songs - or any songs - of all-time are listed, "Satisfaction" will not be a far from the top. Let's see if any of the hit songs of today will be remembered as well in 55 years after their hey-day.

But I think that exactly is the point of these 'subjective' views of The Guardian journalists. "Satisfaction" (and The Stones) is too obvious, too big to pick up. So, instead picking up an almost forgotten gem like "Ghost Town" by The Specials is such a cool thing to do. But of course, there is nothing wrong with that - we all have an arsehole - but my point of criticism toward the respected Guardian was that what the hell we do with those kind of subjective opinions gathered by some random group of journalists? To know what these journos contingently happen to 'like'? I repeat that I find that lousy journalism, not typical for their high standard in general. Made for fun, for sure, but c'mon...

Oh yes, I almost forget: you throw a few rhetorical questions (in order to belittle my intelligence I suppose), so here we go with the answers: No, I didn't expect the Stones have 25 songs in the list, but I expected "Satisfaction" do better. Yes, I read the introduction, and I am aware of the criterion behind the list.


- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-05 14:46 by Doxa.

Okay, Doxa. I guess those three journalists who put this list together aren't Stones fan boys (girls) to begin with. Those people exist. I accept that. It's their personal picks.
Whether they put Satisfaction on spot 13, 26 or 42 is not that important to me. It only reflects their personal tastes. My point was that there is a pop world outside
The Rolling Stones and that The Stones doesn't make it to the Top Ten of chart success on the UK Top Hundred.

Ps. I have always loved the sake of argument. Not a fan of PC. On political sites to the right I always try the left argument. And vice versa. Not very smart, I know.
But, hopefully, I won't be accused of being opportunistic or doing lip service at least... Ds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-05 17:47 by Stoneage.

Quote
Stoneage
Okay, Doxa. I guess those three journalists who put this list together aren't Stones fan boys (girls) to begin with. Those people exist. I accept that. It's their personal picks.
Whether they put Satisfaction on spot 13, 26 or 42 is not that important to me. It only reflects their personal tastes. My point was that there is a pop world outside
The Rolling Stones and that The Stones doesn't make it to the Top Ten of chart success on the UK Top Hundred.

In terms of charts you will be right, but ...
already in 1964, when it was clear that the Stones were going to be a big success (read: a threat to our sweet society) that society started to attack the band (via, primitive, media like tabloits and newspapers from all levels) in all sorts of ways. I'm am sure if one would measure the number of public attacks on the band (not even need to add compliments here ) over the past, say, 56 years (and compare that with other bands and artists) The Rolling Stones (apart from being, by far, the best ever live band) would end up as the most popular band ever.

Quote
Stoneage
Okay, Doxa. I guess those three journalists who put this list together aren't Stones fan boys (girls) to begin with. Those people exist. I accept that. It's their personal picks.
Whether they put Satisfaction on spot 13, 26 or 42 is not that important to me. It only reflects their personal tastes. My point was that there is a pop world outside
The Rolling Stones and that The Stones doesn't make it to the Top Ten of chart success on the UK Top Hundred.

Ps. I have always loved the sake of argument. Not a fan of PC. On political sites to the right I always try the left argument. And vice versa. Not very smart, I know.
But, hopefully, I won't be accused of being opportunistic or doing lip service at least... Ds.

Haha... it is good to have differing opinions for the sake of discussion. Personally I found that list amusing, the point I made in my first post about it (it wasn't even surprising since it reflects the long tradition of 'critical' English music press to belittle the Stones). And neither I do not care how the Stones are doing in a random list of some three random persons. However, as people started to defend that list, I made some critical observations about it, and, frankly, it is always enjoyable to 'defend' the Stones against unfair criticism. Besides, I always been a critic of critics...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-05 20:08 by Doxa.

Where do you get the detailed data?

Br

Chartmasters?

Tiffanyblu: [en.wikipedia.org]
[www.officialcharts.com]
[www.theguardian.com]

I'm sure there are other good links as well.

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Stoneage
Tiffanyblu: [en.wikipedia.org]
[www.officialcharts.com]

I'm sure there are other good links as well.

thx Stoneage. I was more reffering to the detailed spotify data. but found it now

So if they are going to do just an "greatest hits" concert based on Spotify streams the 19 songs would be:

Paint It, Black 434 100 601
(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction 317 164 387
Sympathy For The Devil 279 050 854
Gimme Shelter 277 145 861
Start Me Up 258 022 686
Beast Of Burden 193 939 737
Angie 151 580 169
Wild Horses 137 776 131
Brown Sugar 130 265 540
You Can't Always Get What You Want 99 849 995
Miss You 86 613 941
Honky Tonk Women 85 974 582
Under My Thumb 66 577 354
Jumpin' Jack Flash 66 549 764
Can't You Hear Me Knocking 49 051 137
Ruby Tuesday 44 784 562
She's A Rainbow 39 738 108
Tumbling Dice 36 413 751
Street Fighting Man 30 193 930

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tiffanyblu
So if they are going to do just an "greatest hits" concert based on Spotify streams the 19 songs would be:

Paint It, Black 434 100 601
(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction 317 164 387
Sympathy For The Devil 279 050 854
Gimme Shelter 277 145 861
Start Me Up 258 022 686
Beast Of Burden 193 939 737
Angie 151 580 169
Wild Horses 137 776 131
Brown Sugar 130 265 540
You Can't Always Get What You Want 99 849 995
Miss You 86 613 941
Honky Tonk Women 85 974 582
Under My Thumb 66 577 354
Jumpin' Jack Flash 66 549 764
Can't You Hear Me Knocking 49 051 137
Ruby Tuesday 44 784 562
She's A Rainbow 39 738 108
Tumbling Dice 36 413 751
Street Fighting Man 30 193 930

It's basically HOT ROCKS and REWIND, which is all any general music fan needs for the Stones, because, as we know, anything past 1981 means nothing.

For whatever reason I can not see any play figures for any artist on Spotify.

This is why the Rolling Stones Channel should remain on Sirius XM as expressed in respective thread.

It is more exciting when you don't make the play list and every song heard is a surprise.

Quote
tiffanyblu
So if they are going to do just an "greatest hits" concert based on Spotify streams the 19 songs would be:

Paint It, Black 434 100 601
(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction 317 164 387
Sympathy For The Devil 279 050 854
Gimme Shelter 277 145 861
Start Me Up 258 022 686
Beast Of Burden 193 939 737
Angie 151 580 169
Wild Horses 137 776 131
Brown Sugar 130 265 540
You Can't Always Get What You Want 99 849 995
Miss You 86 613 941
Honky Tonk Women 85 974 582
Under My Thumb 66 577 354
Jumpin' Jack Flash 66 549 764
Can't You Hear Me Knocking 49 051 137
Ruby Tuesday 44 784 562
She's A Rainbow 39 738 108
Tumbling Dice 36 413 751
Street Fighting Man 30 193 930

I would say it is descent late-days set list
Usual 8 out of 9 songs from Hot Rocks (second disc). Midnight Rambler is missing but it is replaced by Can't You Hear Me Knocking (Mick Taylor's guest appearance ). Plus usual hits from 60's that belong to the same Hot Rocks.
A few standards from Rewind/Jump Back. A couple of rarities (or web vote, She's A Rainbow, Under My Thumb) + acoustic set in the middle of the show (Angie, Beast Of Burden). Keith set was missed in action, you can choose yourself .

Balllet version created by Melanie Hamrick


[youtu.be]

[www.theguardian.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-08 19:01 by Lien.

Thinks it's time for the IORR dancers to Bust a Move.....

Quote
Lien
Balllet version created by Melanie Hamrick


[youtu.be]

[www.theguardian.com]

"Living In A Ghost Town" is nicely bubbling under. Surely it never - naturally and realistically - turned out to be any hit song to top the charts in today's streaming market, but it has gotten a some kind of peculiar recognition. It is funny, for example, to look at youtube how many different versions, and anything associated to it, is there. But to realize the nature of the distribution and media of hit songs of today, I got a nice reminder a week or so ago when I happened to have a meeting with a group of very young people - well, that were they to me, from 14 to 28.. - and we had this funny habit of each suggesting one favourite song to play from Spotify. I picked up "Living In A Ghost Town" and none of the youngsters ever had heard it. Well, they all liked it, even dance to it, but what was nice to my ears, they were surprised that it was a brandnew Stones song. It sounded really fresh and current to them, not anything quaint to them. But it is a sad state of affairs that there is no any way a song by some ancient act like the Stones have any chance to enter the Spotify song lists or suitable radio stations to achieve the ears of today's pop listeners. Someone needs to play it for them....

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-08 23:22 by Doxa.

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GasLightStreet
For whatever reason I can not see any play figures for any artist on Spotify.

Skippy, try this one. Change the artist for whatever you want.

[chartmasters.org]

- Doxa

Quote
Doxa

Quote
Lien
Balllet version created by Melanie Hamrick


[youtu.be]

[www.theguardian.com]

"Living In A Ghost Town" is nicely bubbling under. Surely it never - naturally and realistically - turned out to be any hit song to top the charts in today's streaming market, but it has gotten a some kind of peculiar recognition. It is funny, for example, to look at youtube how many different versions, and anything associated to it, is there. But to realize the nature of the distribution and media of hit songs of today, I got a nice reminder a week or so ago when I happened to have a meeting with a group of very young people - well, that were they to me, from 14 to 28.. - and we had this funny habit of each suggesting one favourite song to play from Spotify. I picked up "Living In A Ghost Town" and none of the youngsters ever had heard it. Well, they all liked it, even dance to it, but what was nice to my ears, they were surprised that it was a brandnew Stones song. It sounded really fresh and current to them, not anything quaint to them. But it is a sad state of affairs that there is no any way a song by some ancient act like the Stones have any chance to enter the Spotify song lists or suitable radio stations to achieve the ears of today's pop listeners. Someone needs to play it for them....

- Doxa

Agree. That SOMEONE should be the Stones PR people. This song is as fresh as anything any popular artist of today artist would put out today.

Will we see the vinyl or CD for the single we ordered from the Stones site??.....

Quote
tiffanyblu
So if they are going to do just an "greatest hits" concert based on Spotify streams the 19 songs would be:

Paint It, Black 434 100 601
(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction 317 164 387
Sympathy For The Devil 279 050 854
Gimme Shelter 277 145 861
Start Me Up 258 022 686
Beast Of Burden 193 939 737
Angie 151 580 169
Wild Horses 137 776 131
Brown Sugar 130 265 540
You Can't Always Get What You Want 99 849 995
Miss You 86 613 941
Honky Tonk Women 85 974 582
Under My Thumb 66 577 354
Jumpin' Jack Flash 66 549 764
Can't You Hear Me Knocking 49 051 137
Ruby Tuesday 44 784 562
She's A Rainbow 39 738 108
Tumbling Dice 36 413 751
Street Fighting Man 30 193 930

I'm curious. Would a Keith-vocal track enter Top 100? Happy maybe, Any with his voice from All About You and on?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-06-09 18:37 by GetYerAngie.