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daspyknows
The vaccine IS coming but how is that going to solve the problem in the next 60 days? Springtime will be better but this will be the winter from hell and a few hundred thousand more will die.

World-wide probably millions will die between now and springtime. And I assume millions will die from the regular flu. And probably millions will die in car accidents. And some people may die from the vaccination itself, but that number will be extremely low.

There is a bright side. Assume the vaccine will be distributed to older people fist. So if you are 60 or older, chances are you will have been vaccinated by the end of February and at least the nightmare will be over for you. Assume by the end of May, more than 50% of the world population will have been vaccinated. In industrialized countries, that number may be 90%.

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MileHigh
The vaccine IS coming, and there will be multiple versions from multiple suppliers. Yes, it's a tough time in the Northern Hemisphere as temperatures drop and the daily new cases increase. But the light at the end of the tunnel is finally here.

I am somewhat bewildered because some of you almost sound like you don't want there to be a vaccine or you are against a vaccine.

I'm all for one. Logic, if that's possible, brings the opportunity for it to get better. Will it ever go away? No. Will everyone get it? No - but there are people that have that attitude, which is really disappointing because, it seems, that they are the ones that think it's a hoax, is "just like the flu" etc.

For some it may be, others, obviously, worse, but what still seems to be the biggest issue with getting COVID is the "survival" part: no one, that I am aware of, has a possibility of a multitude - a plethora - of possible horrible after effects with the flu as they do with COVID.

It seems that would be a deterrent in regard to having such a fuckit attitude that so many people have. So what if people are tired of wearing a mask (such a chore) etc - the other option is much worse.

It reveals how many people take life for granted and, generally, don't care about anyone else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-16 19:56 by GasLightStreet.

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MileHigh

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Irix

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MileHigh

I am somewhat bewildered because some of you almost sound like you don't want there to be a vaccine or you are against a vaccine.

Optimism in all honors - but it's more of that:

"Pfizer's announcement on Monday that initial results show its vaccine is 90% effective, though much remains unknown about its safety, durability, and the severity of illness it prevents." - [www.BusinessInsider.com] .

Look at the fine print when you buy a bottle of Tylenol. It lists all of the horror stories that can happen to you when you take it.

That's why it would look like people don't want there to be a vaccine or they would be against a vaccine. But it's also a bit too optimistic that one vaccine can solve all problems immediately and at once.

From [www.Standard.co.uk] - (15-Nov-2020, 12:35) :

Ugur Sahin, chief executive of BioNTech, whose Covid-19 vaccine co-led by Pfizer has shown 90 per cent effectiveness, said the companies were aiming to distribute 300 million doses of their candidate by April.

He told the BBC’s Andrew Marr that the jab “will not make a big impact” on the current second wave, because mass-vaccinations will not take place until next year. However, he stressed, if high vaccination rates are achieved by autumn 2021, “we could have a normal winter next year”.

Professor Sahin told the Sunday breakfast programme: “If everything continues to go well, we will start to deliver the vaccine end of this year, beginning next year.” Mr Sahin said the goal was to deliver hundreds of millions of doses by spring, which could “already start to make an impact”, with more notable effects seen during the summer.

He added: “What is absolutely essential is that we get a high vaccination rate before autumn/winter next year, so that means all the immunisation, vaccination approaches must be accomplished before next autumn. “I’m confident that this will happen, because a number of vaccine companies have been asked to increase the supply, and so that we could have a normal winter next year.”

See also: [www.BBC.com] .

If you walk into a pharmacy, and ask for any side effects on a certain drug, they will tell you "all drugs have side effects". The fine print on the drugs are made by the drug manufacturers, to protect them from being sued. So they list all sorts of side effects, like heart attack, cancer and so on.

Vaccines have basically two rules in order to get approval:

- Safe
- Effective

This is why it takes a long time to get approval. It takes months to test both for "safe" and "effective".

We will probably have one or more approved covid-19 vaccines by the end of this year, but it will take time until the vaccine is actually making changes in the population. See the update related to vaccine:

Fauci Says Pfizer Vaccine’s Trial Success May Boost Acceptance (Bloomberg Nov 15, 2020)

From the above report:

Just over half of U.S. adults said in September they would definitely or probably take a vaccine to prevent Covid-19 if it were available, down from 72% in May, a national survey by the Washington-based Pew Research Center showed. A survey in June of people in 19 countries published last month in the journal Science found 71.5% of participants would probably take a Covid-19 vaccine, with acceptance ranging from almost 90% in China to less than 55% in Russia.

Comments:

If just 50% of the population will accept the vaccine, there will still be many people with covid-19 in the communities. Our national health experts in Norway say we will have to live with limitations and covid-19 protection for most parts of next year, even if they start vaccinations during the spring of 2021. People in Norway have a high trust in vaccines, and I will assume most people will be vaccinated, but it will take a long while, and they will not vaccinate young people until after summer next year, as it seems.

The corona virus will not go away overnight, just because there will be one or more vaccines approved within the next few weeks. Most countries will spend months and months, probably most of 2021, building temporarily immunity, through vaccine, and also trying to convince people the fact that the vaccine is safe, and that people still will need to keep a distance, wearing a mask and so on, because people age 30 and under will probably not get any vaccine, not for a long while. The Pfizer vaccine isn't even tested on young people yet.

Bjornulf



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-16 12:51 by bv.

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MileHigh

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daspyknows
The vaccine IS coming but how is that going to solve the problem in the next 60 days? Springtime will be better but this will be the winter from hell and a few hundred thousand more will die.

World-wide probably millions will die between now and springtime. And I assume millions will die from the regular flu. And probably millions will die in car accidents. And some people may die from the vaccination itself, but that number will be extremely low.

There is a bright side. Assume the vaccine will be distributed to older people fist. So if you are 60 or older, chances are you will have been vaccinated by the end of February and at least the nightmare will be over for you. Assume by the end of May, more than 50% of the world population will have been vaccinated. In industrialized countries, that number may be 90%.

As far as I know, you can’t catch a car accident.

The nightmare may be over for the US on January 20. It’ll certainly be over for, unfortunately, probably >300,000 souls in the US, lives lost due to complete inaction and disregard for the science from persons in charge.

Rod

From [www.BBC.com] - 16-Nov-2020 :

Moderna: Covid vaccine shows nearly 95% protection

A new vaccine that protects against Covid-19 is nearly 95% effective, early data from US company Moderna shows. The results come hot on the heels of similar results from Pfizer, and add to growing confidence that vaccines can help end the pandemic.

Both companies used a highly innovative and experimental approach to designing their vaccines. Moderna says it is a "great day" and they plan to apply for approval to use the vaccine in the next few weeks. The company hopes to have up to one billion doses available for use around the world next year.

However, this is still early data and key questions remain unanswered. We still do not know how long immunity will last as volunteers will have to be followed for much longer before that can be answered. There are hints it offers some protection in older age groups, who are most at risk of dying from Covid, but there is not full data. No significant safety concerns have been reported, but nothing, including paracetamol, is 100% safe. Short lived fatigue, headache and pain were reported after the injection in some patients. It is not known whether the vaccine just stops people becoming severely ill, or if it stops them spreading the virus too.


See also: "Moderna Covid vaccine candidate almost 95% effective, trials show" - [www.TheGuardian.com] .

The news about the Moderna vaccine being 95% efficient are great! They use the same RNA technology as the Pfizer / BioNTech vaccine, estimated to be 90% efficient last week.

Bjornulf

Moderna's vaccine has a significant advantage over Pfizer's

Moderna announced this morning that its coronavirus vaccine is 94.5% effective against the virus, making it the second vaccine in the United States to have a stunningly high success rate.

Last week, Pfizer announced that early data show its vaccine is more than 90% effective against the disease.

While the two vaccines appear to have very similar safety and efficacy profiles, Moderna's vaccine has a significant practical advantage over Pfizer's.

Pfizer's vaccine has to be kept at minus 75 degrees Celsius — or about minus 103 degrees Fahrenheit. No other vaccine in the US needs to be kept that cold, and doctors' offices and pharmacies do not have freezers that go that low.

Moderna's vaccine can be kept at minus 20 degrees Celsius, which is about minus 68 agrees Fahrenheit. Other vaccines, such as the one against chickenpox, need to be kept at that temperature.

That means Moderna's vaccine can be kept in "a readily available freezer that is available in most doctors' offices and pharmacies," said Dr. Tal Zacks, Moderna's chief medical officer. "We leverage infrastructure that already exists for other marketed vaccines."

Another advantage of Moderna's vaccine is that it can be kept for 30 days in the refrigerator, the company announced Monday. Pfizer's vaccine can last only five days in the refrigerator.

Moderna's vaccine has a significant advantage over Pfizer's (CNN)

Bjornulf

I hope they can deliver as soon as possible.

Milehigh still seems to think Covid is the flu. Until he gets it he isn't going to change his tune.

1. It is not like the flu.
2. People of all ages get it and DIE from it.
3. Preliminary results for the vaccine are promising but until BILLIONS of people are vaccinated things will not really change.
4. There is no idea how long vaccine immunity lasts.
5. The winter will be bad regardless of whether there is a vaccine.

A good friends of mine, a true sportsman, 40 years old caught the virus. Incredible headaches, fever 40+ for 10 days. When I saw him three weeks later he was a shade of his former self. Lost a lot of weight, skinny, pale, and his cycling efforts are back to zero. Corona is worse than the flu, much worse if it really gets you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-11-16 18:08 by TheflyingDutchman.

Jeff Beck just rescheduled his UK Tour to May and June, 2022.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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daspyknows
Milehigh still seems to think Covid is the flu. Until he gets it he isn't going to change his tune.

1. It is not like the flu.
2. People of all ages get it and DIE from it.
3. Preliminary results for the vaccine are promising but until BILLIONS of people are vaccinated things will not really change.
4. There is no idea how long vaccine immunity lasts.
5. The winter will be bad regardless of whether there is a vaccine.

Nope, I never said that. I think it's about 10 times more lethal than the flu and if your lungs almost shut down your brain gets oxygen deprived for an extended period of time. You can start to hallucinate and it causes major psychological stress and trauma that in turn causes major episodes of PTSD in some people. The younger you are, the less lethal it is. Yes, things won't change until many people are vaccinated, that's a given. With respect to how long covid vaccine immunity lasts, we do have a frame of reference for that. Many vaccinations last 10 years or more. I believe many last a lifetime. Measles was essentially eradicated until yet another whack-job anti-vaccination movement grew up around it. Over the past few years there have been small localized outbreaks of measles.

The winter might be bad, but we have yet to see how aggressively they will scale up the mass production of various vaccines.

Again, there is this bizarre sense of some people not being happy that two or more covid vaccines are about to be deployed. The third round of trials before approval typically involves something like 30,000 people that get the vaccine, and 15,000 or 30,000 control subjects that don't get the vaccine. The two groups are monitored for several months. It's a large data set as it should be.

I'm waiting for people to scream that the 90-95% effectiveness of a/the COVID vaccine isn't enough.

Flu vaccine is about 30% and people don't have a problem getting that.

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Hairball
Jeff Beck just rescheduled his UK Tour to May and June, 2022.

That's good news.

I’m still waiting to hear how long a vaccine will protect against the virus. If annual boosters are needed - maybe even 2 jabs per year - that would complicate the manufacture and delivery of the vaccine. We’re imagining this as being delivered and done in one year. If we have to do this annually ... yikes. Any info on how long the 2 emerging vaccines will be effective?

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SomeTorontoGirl
I’m still waiting to hear how long a vaccine will protect against the virus. If annual boosters are needed - maybe even 2 jabs per year - that would complicate the manufacture and delivery of the vaccine. We’re imagining this as being delivered and done in one year. If we have to do this annually ... yikes. Any info on how long the 2 emerging vaccines will be effective?

Don't forget that every time you get a regular flu shot that it probably lasts 10 years or more, perhaps for a lifetime. The problem is that the flu virus is a continuous moving target and it changes from year to year.

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SomeTorontoGirl

Any info on how long the 2 emerging vaccines will be effective?

No, it's way too early for a reliable statement.

Pfizer vaccine: "Researchers also don't yet know [...] how long the doses may be effective at shielding people from the illness." - [www.BusinessInsider.com] .

Moderna vaccine: "We still do not know how long immunity will last as volunteers will have to be followed for much longer before that can be answered." - [www.BBC.com] .

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TheflyingDutchman

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Hairball
Jeff Beck just rescheduled his UK Tour to May and June, 2022.

That's good news.

That actually gives me hope!

Interesting website:

[covid19risk.biosci.gatech.edu]

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georgie48
I have a vision ... (). Some genius could decide to make special ultra thin concert suits. A bit like those worn by people working in the microchip industry. ...

If it's a Residents concert it might just be enough for the audience to dress like the band ...

[live.staticflickr.com]
[live.staticflickr.com]


The situation over here: Since case numbers are still surging despite two weeks of 'lockdown light' we're now going into another strict lockdown cum curfew tonite for the coming 3,5 weeks here in Austria. Case numbers are higher now than in Spring and ICUs are reaching the capacity limits set for Covid patients while still being sufficiently available for other ICU patients. Which also means that there are much more Covid patients now in ICUs here than there were in Spring.

Similar measures are being taken in Germany and other European countries.

Luckily I can spend the coming weeks in a little house with a garden in a more rural area so I will leave Vienna and go there in two or three days. Since my social life became almost non-existing anyway over the years, in fact not much will change for me apart from more room plus a garden.

Likewise luckily, I can do my job in home office so my income is not in danger. My wife is less lucky, thanks to Covid her income this year is close zo zero. She's in adult education mainly targeted at elderly people and almost all courses she teaches were cancelled. Since her audience is not exactly computer-savy, switching to teaching online was often not possible. But we do get by for now.

There is much discussion here as to what caused this steep increase of case numbers since Autumn. A few weeks back the favourite explanation was private parties in rooms packed with people where the virus found ideal conditions to spread, and the infected people then passed it on in other environments. From what I understand, the average age of infected persons in Austria is now lower than in Spring and also the average age of patients in ICUs is considerably lower now.

It's good news that there are two vaccines now (Pfizer, Moderna) that seem to be effective but it will take many months until they will be available for large-scale vaccinations campaigns. It's all about keeping things under control until then (to the extent possible, and hoping the vaccinations will be as effective in real life as they were in the studies, etc etc).

Triumph of the West. Canada, with a population of 37.6 million people, has options to purchase up to 414 million doses of vaccine from seven potential suppliers.

From the video above, Canada is working on an end-to-end logistics system. They have already purchased refrigerators and freezers to house 313 million doses of vaccine.

It's just wonderful what people can do when they work together towards a common goal.

Why do they need freezers in Canada?

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Koen
Why do they need freezers in Canada?

Canada is melting.

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GasLightStreet

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Koen
Why do they need freezers in Canada?

Canada is melting.

I do not know how long in the snow I wrestled with grisly fear;
But the stars came out and they danced about ere again I ventured near;
I was sick with dread, but I bravely said: "I'll just take a peep inside.
I guess he's cooked, and it's time I looked"; ... then the door I opened wide.

And there sat Sam, looking cool and calm, in the heart of the furnace roar;
And he wore a smile you could see a mile, and he said: "Please close that door.
It's fine in here, but I greatly fear you'll let in the cold and storm—
Since I left Plumtree, down in Tennessee, it's the first time I've been warm."

There are strange things done in the midnight sun
By the men who moil for gold;
The Arctic trails have their secret tales
That would make your blood run cold;
The Northern Lights have seen queer sights,
But the queerest they ever did see
Was that night on the marge of Lake Lebarge
I cremated Sam McGee.

- Robert W. Service

I'm really happy for the vaccine that is about to come. Which one will be the best and safe? Pfizer-Biontech, Moderna, Jansenn, Oxford-AstraZeneca, the Russian's one...?
Time will tell.
The problem is that a permanent cure for this virus has not yet been identified.
Imo the only cure that can defeat this virus are the synthetic monoclonal antibodies.

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MileHigh
From the video above, Canada is working on an end-to-end logistics system. They have already purchased refrigerators and freezers to house 313 million doses of vaccine.

It's just wonderful what people can do when they work together towards a common goal.

I thought the Moderna vaccine didn't require the «super-freezers»...

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DandelionPowderman

I thought the Moderna vaccine didn't require the «super-freezers»...

The Pfizer vaccine requires a storage at -75°C (-103°F) and the Moderna vaccine -20°C (-4°F) - [www.BBC.com] . But who knows which vaccines from the seven potential suppliers Canada will use - [iorr.org] .