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bv
California’s coronavirus death toll is way below New York’s. Here’s why (Los Angeles Times - APRIL 10, 2020)

By late Friday, California had reported 598 deaths over two and a half months, fewer than New York experienced in a single day Wednesday, when 799 in the Empire State died from COVID-19, the disease caused by the virus. California has averaged just under 45 deaths per day over the last week, with no spike in fatalities.

...

Seven counties in the greater San Francisco Bay Area ordered residents to “shelter in place” and all but essential businesses to close at midnight on March 16, a day when the number of coronavirus deaths in California doubled from six to 12. Three days later, Gov. Gavin Newsom extended the order to the entire state, with the total death toll at just 19.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo made a similar order on March 20, but it did not take effect until Sunday, March 22, at 8 p.m. By then, his state already had recorded at least 150 deaths. That action still preceded lockdowns across much of the nation. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis didn’t impose a stay-at-home order until April 1.

...

And our governor Gavin Newsom (Democrat) who has been in a continuous clash with Trump since 2016, is now praising him and all he is doing for California during this crisis.

From an interview with Anderson Cooper on CNN: California governor praises Trump's efforts to help state amid coronavirus crisis

"We’re involved in 68 lawsuits with the Trump administration. I’ve been on your show. I haven’t been timid. He certainly hasn’t been timid. But I got to say this. It’s just a fact. I’d be lying to you.
I’d be lying to the American people. Every single direct request that he was capable of meeting, he has met. This has been a remarkable moment where at least we have been able to rise above that partisanship.”

"We have the USNS Mercy in California because of [Trump's] direct intervention and support, 2,000 of these federal medical stations because of his direct support. So I can only speak for myself, but I have to be complementary. Otherwise, I would be simply lying to you, misleading you, and that is a wonderful thing to be able to say, and I hope that continues".

Gotta give the governor credit for rising above the partisanship and not taking the bait - especially when being interviewed on CNN which clearly has it's own agenda.
If everyone could work together by putting aside bias and doing away with "the blame game', things would be so much better.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Maybe it is just imagination, but during the last couple of weeks, while we do our twice a day extensive walk, we find that people (who at least are unknown to us) are increasingly greating eachother. Could it be the "required" distance?
Does it make people feel more safe? Or is it the overall feeling of "we're all in it together", let's share that feeling ...
It feels good though

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Chris Fountain
Bill Maher is correct. These pandemics will never stop until we close down the "Wet" markets in China. As Maher stated on his show the other night - This is had nothing to do with "Chinese Racism."

"If we America knew that "Hot Pockets" (USA Snack Food) caused pandemical Flu - we would stop it immediately. "

He is correct- even mentioned the following "Bird Flu, Asian Flu, SARS, etc.."

You have to defeat the source of the problem, which in this case, derives from the "Wet" markets in China that sell exotic animals laced viral properties.

If not these pandemics will happen again and again

It's a lot more complicated than that.

We're trashing the planet, we treat/process animals horribly and there are too many of us.

Bill Maher is an expert on nothing. He tells jokes for a living. He should stick to that. Or perhaps worry about Factory Farms in our own country before acting holier-than-thou and blaming others?

Hot Pockets aren't a problem...no...but, how we process the meat that goes into Hot Pockets is a HUGE festering problem that is bound to create a pandemic one day.

Example: We currently have a massive outbreak of Bird Flu in South Carolina...precislely b/c of how we house/treat/process livestock....it's just a matter of time before it (or some other animal-virus resulting from overcrowded unsanitary - and inhumane - conditions) "jumps" to humans.

does Maher think we are going to "shut down" Factory Farms in response to this current outbreak, even though it would be extremely wise to do so? Would we do so if it "jumps" to humans?

I doubt it.

"wet markets" are a problem...agreed....but, they are simply part of a much wider problem of how we treat & interact with animals...along w/ a lot of other things that contributed to this pandemic.

I'm no fan of "wet markets" but we in the US need to clean up our own Factory Farming before we start finger-pointing.

Finger pointing at the Chinese might not be overtly racist, but it is leaning in that direction.

by the way...Nestle makes Hot Pockets...correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not even a US company.

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georgie48
Maybe it is just imagination, but during the last couple of weeks, while we do our twice a day extensive walk, we find that people (who at least are unknown to us) are increasingly greating eachother. Could it be the "required" distance?
Does it make people feel more safe? Or is it the overall feeling of "we're all in it together", let's share that feeling ...
It feels good though

It was kind if the same thing after 9/11, people seemed more respectful of each other.

According to Media Bias/Fact Check, the New York Times is moderately LEFT-CENTER BIAS NY Times

"Overall, we rate the New York Times Left-Center biased based on word and story selection that moderately favors the left, but highly factual and considered one of the most reliable sources for news information due to proper sourcing and well respected journalists/editors. The failed fact checks that occurred were on Op-Ed’s and not straight news reporting".

While Media Bias/Fact Check rates The Hill (from the article I linked above) as RIGHT-CENTER BIAS TheHill

"Overall, we rate The Hill Right-Center Biased based on editorial positions that moderately favor the right, however basic news reporting is generally balanced in story selection and reported in a straightforward manner.
We also rate them Mostly Factual in reporting, rather than High, due to previous opinion columns promoting unproven claims".

You would be hard pressed to find any news organization that is completely free of bias one way or the other, but if there are any that exist feel free to post them here as I don;t think I've ever seen or heard of any.
However, Media Bias/Fact Check does give a list of "least biased" (Least Biased ), but I suppose even these are all in the eye of the beholder.

"These sources have minimal bias and use very few loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes).
The reporting is factual and usually sourced. These are the most credible media sources".
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EDIT: With so many previous posts being deleted, the above is sort of on it's own and looks posted out of context, but there was a reason for posting it....

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-11 22:46 by Hairball.

There have been too many political posts here lately. I was about to close down this thread, like a click away, but I gave it a 2nd chance. It should be possible to talk about the reason for no tour this year still here.

From now on I will delete posts AND access whenever there is partisan or political talks or promotions.

Bjornulf

I'm out of this thread.

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bv

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NICOS

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shattered1978

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wonderboy

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MisterDDDD
Apple and Google team up to ‘contact trace’ the coronavirus
"OAKLAND, Calif. — In one of the most far-ranging attempts to halt the spread of the novel coronavirus, Apple and Google said they were building software into smartphones that would tell people if they were recently in contact with someone who was infected with the virus."
[www.seattletimes.com]

Uh, oh. Big tech and big government really want to track citizens. Once they do this, we won't be able to stop them from tracking all our activities.

They already do.

Since two weeks I leave my mobile phone at home if I go out shopping.

Same here. I never carry my mobile phone outside my house. My wife is freaking out about it, but fact is the mobile phone is one of the main sources of infection and virus. I am not the president. If someone need to talk to me then I will be home sooner or later anyway.

I hardly leave home these days anyway. Still, it would have been helpful if I had brought my mobile phone when I had my biking accident breaking my hip back in September last year, but that is life. You only live once.

Carry the phone powered off. If you need it for an emergency you have it.

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bv

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wonderboy
Now U.S. officials are expecting the death toll to be closer to 60,000. That's a long way from the millions originally bandied about.
I think that by the end of this everybody will claim victory -- those that champion lockdowns and those that believe this was an overreaction.
The reports and science of this are changing all the time. We have to be careful not to get wedded to specific reports, even if they come from reputable news organizations. I often pay more attention to the people on the fringes, because mainstream scientists, government and media tend to move in lockstep. It doesn't matter in society if you are wrong, as long as everybody else in the majority is wrong, too.

The estimate of 60,000 deaths is based on the fact that there is a close down in all major U.S. areas, as present. The estimates of 100,000 - 240,000 deaths, from the mouth of the U.S. president a week or so ago, was based on estimates before most states did shut down.

I think it is great news to see that 300+ million people in USA are able to move in the same direction, respecting the shut down, saving a lot of lives. Congratulation!

If there is an early re-open, from the current shut-down, then the estimates will no longer be 60,000. They will go high.

If the country "reopens" May 1st all the progress made will be lost and the higher numbers are more likely. I still thing the 60K number is overly optimistic consider the number of people in assisted living situations and prisons. Once it gets into one of those places it spreads fast and kills many people at high risk. There is nothing being done to stop it.

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daspyknows

Carry the phone powered off. If you need it for an emergency you have it.

That's called paranoia and egoistic. If someone close needs you he or she cannot reach you.

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TheflyingDutchman

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daspyknows

Carry the phone powered off. If you need it for an emergency you have it.

That's called paranoia and egoistic. If someone close needs you he cannot reach you.

Ridiculous. With that rationale, everyone prior to the invention of cell phones was paranoid and "egoistic".

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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TheflyingDutchman

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daspyknows

Carry the phone powered off. If you need it for an emergency you have it.

That's called paranoia and egoistic. If someone close needs you he or she cannot reach you.

It is better than leaving it home. Personally I don't care. I carry my phone.

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kovach

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georgie48
Maybe it is just imagination, but during the last couple of weeks, while we do our twice a day extensive walk, we find that people (who at least are unknown to us) are increasingly greating eachother. Could it be the "required" distance?
Does it make people feel more safe? Or is it the overall feeling of "we're all in it together", let's share that feeling ...
It feels good though

It was kind if the same thing after 9/11, people seemed more respectful of each other.

....unless you were Muslim (or "Muslim-looking"), of course....

which is what I fear in regards to Asians in the current crisis...

[nbcnews.com]

but, yeah...crises do bring out the best in people...they also bring out the worst, unfortunately.

humans.

These days I put my wallet and my mobile phone in a plastic bag, and I have it in my pocket. I never use it. Just for emergency. Then I zip that pocket, never open it while outside, unless of emergency. The jacket is for shopping only. Then in my other pocket I have my "dirty" credit card (and some others as backup in my "clean" wallet). So shopping is easy, and other stuff, but I don't want to have a dirty phone at home, and I don't want to wash my phone with antibacterial stuff every time I have been out.

Not that I am out that much. I do shopping one time per week, two times during Easter, that's it. We have been in lockdown since March 12 in Norway. For a month. I am not recommend seeing anyone except for my wife. I talk to family members through the window, 2 m / 6 ft away, and I phone them often, of course. I work from home. We walk in the area almost every day. I live in the countryside and the blackbird start singing at 4am. This is the life most of us have now. I don't have to commute by train or bus to work every day. They are empty anyway, by the way, may be half a dozen passengers, at the most.

Luckily I am not a bus driver, or a cleaner at a hospital. They can't work from home, and they have other worries than shopping and dirty mobile phones. They are our true heroes.

Bjornulf



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-11 23:21 by bv.

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stickyfingers101

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kovach

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georgie48
Maybe it is just imagination, but during the last couple of weeks, while we do our twice a day extensive walk, we find that people (who at least are unknown to us) are increasingly greating eachother. Could it be the "required" distance?
Does it make people feel more safe? Or is it the overall feeling of "we're all in it together", let's share that feeling ...
It feels good though

It was kind if the same thing after 9/11, people seemed more respectful of each other.

....unless you were Muslim (or "Muslim-looking"), of course....

which is what I fear in regards to Asians in the current crisis...

[nbcnews.com]

but, yeah...crises do bring out the best in people...they also bring out the worst, unfortunately.

humans.

There's always that with the mentally challenged - 'tarring everyone with the same brush' as we say in the UK -

The most heart sinking incident I heard of was - about 10 years ago a pediatrician in Wales had her house 'stoned' by a mob.................

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Hairball

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TheflyingDutchman

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daspyknows

Carry the phone powered off. If you need it for an emergency you have it.

That's called paranoia and egoistic. If someone close needs you he cannot reach you.

Ridiculous. With that rationale, everyone prior to the invention of cell phones was paranoid and "egoistic".

I could agree with you that facilitating new or recent inventions like cell phones can lead to new "luxury problems".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-04-11 23:56 by TheflyingDutchman.

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bv

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crholmstrom
It looks like Washington state will pass 10,000 official cases this weekend. Given the lack of adequate testing, the number is probably much higher. The stay at home order looks like it is working to whatever extent but the governor is already talking about possibly extending it past the current May 4 end date. The weather in Seattle has been good & will be for the next week or so it looks like. Given that, the mayor has closed the most popular parks & beaches totally for Easter weekend. Violators who do not move on when directed by the police face a possible stiff fine.

Washington state must have been in lock down for a month soon, right?

When looking at the numbers of deaths per million population, it seems that Washington state have been able to protect the population quite strongly, as compared to NY, NJ, Louisiana and Michigan. I hope these numbers are looked into before they start opening up again.

[www.worldometers.info]

Officially it's been 2-3 weeks but most people have been doing shelter in place for a month +. Of course there are your idiots (at least one in every crowd) who were denying the crisis or ignoring it. That's why the people who were doing the correct thing can't take a walk in the park this weekend. The lowest common denominator rules again.

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crholmstrom
It looks like Washington state will pass 10,000 official cases this weekend. Given the lack of adequate testing, the number is probably much higher. The stay at home order looks like it is working to whatever extent but the governor is already talking about possibly extending it past the current May 4 end date. The weather in Seattle has been good & will be for the next week or so it looks like. Given that, the mayor has closed the most popular parks & beaches totally for Easter weekend. Violators who do not move on when directed by the police face a possible stiff fine.

Hey cr, up here in BC we just hit 1445 total cases with 58 deaths. 134 in hospital with 63 of those in ICU. One good thing is that 905 have recovered. Our provincial government has done a good job I feel. All provincial parks are closed now. The vast majority are staying home and many small towns are telling people from the city to stay away. Most of the deaths here have occured in long term care homes and the average age of those that died is over 80. The federal and provincial governments have worked very well together, regardless of their political affiliations.
I look at BC numbers and compare then to Louisiana. BC has a little over 5 million people which is slightly more than Louisiana. They have 20000 total cases and 806 deaths. That's almost as many as all of Canada, with 23249 cases and less deaths at 652.

[spectator.us]

The Germans did random testing in an area hard-hit by the virus and found that 2 pct of the town is currently infected and 14 pct of the town is carrying antibodies.
From worldometers.com
If these findings are correct, Germany’s actual death rate could be as low as 0.02% (2,607 deaths / (2,607 cases that have resulted in death + 11,720,000 cases that have resulted in recovery)). Assuming 14% of the German population of 83,700,000 (11,720,000 people) have been infected and have recovered. The rate of infection in Gangelt might be higher than the national one. Another estimate could be obtained by taking into account only deaths occurring in Gangelt against estimated infections in the same location.
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dgdevine6@aol.com

A death rate of 0.02 pct. Let that sink in.

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wonderboy
[spectator.us]

The Germans did random testing in an area hard-hit by the virus and found that 2 pct of the town is currently infected and 14 pct of the town is carrying antibodies.
From worldometers.com
If these findings are correct, Germany’s actual death rate could be as low as 0.02% (2,607 deaths / (2,607 cases that have resulted in death + 11,720,000 cases that have resulted in recovery)). Assuming 14% of the German population of 83,700,000 (11,720,000 people) have been infected and have recovered. The rate of infection in Gangelt might be higher than the national one. Another estimate could be obtained by taking into account only deaths occurring in Gangelt against estimated infections in the same location.
...
dgdevine6@aol.com

A death rate of 0.02 pct. Let that sink in.

That would be amazing! But of course you're totally wrong. Stop pedaling nonsense.

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wonderboy
[spectator.us]

The Germans did random testing in an area hard-hit by the virus and found that 2 pct of the town is currently infected and 14 pct of the town is carrying antibodies.
From worldometers.com
If these findings are correct, Germany’s actual death rate could be as low as 0.02% (2,607 deaths / (2,607 cases that have resulted in death + 11,720,000 cases that have resulted in recovery)). Assuming 14% of the German population of 83,700,000 (11,720,000 people) have been infected and have recovered. The rate of infection in Gangelt might be higher than the national one. Another estimate could be obtained by taking into account only deaths occurring in Gangelt against estimated infections in the same location.
...
dgdevine6@aol.com

A death rate of 0.02 pct. Let that sink in.

Hard to explain the German numbers but contrast that with the United States where presumably the testing has caught up and that's why their numbers of infected is so large. And with 20,396 deaths the death rate is a whopping 3.85%.

I doubt there are major differences in the quality of health care or the demographics between the two countries. So Germany inspires optimism and the US inspires fear.

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TheflyingDutchman

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Hairball

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TheflyingDutchman

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daspyknows

Carry the phone powered off. If you need it for an emergency you have it.

That's called paranoia and egoistic. If someone close needs you he cannot reach you.

Ridiculous. With that rationale, everyone prior to the invention of cell phones was paranoid and "egoistic".

I could agree with you that facilitating new or recent inventions like cell phones can lead to new "luxury problems".

I don't get the cell phone business. It reminds me of the toilet paper craze. Somebody help me.

If you are the only person to touch your cell phone and assuming the majority of times you go out and don't use it and it sits in your pocket or purse, then what's the issue? Yes, if you touch your cell phone and you assume that your hands are contaminated that's one thing. But if you don't "engage" with your cell phone when you go out then what's the big deal?

The Germans tested a random sample. We are testing sick people.
On my phone now but the US death rate is way off. I can cite data shortly.

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MileHigh

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TheflyingDutchman

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Hairball

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TheflyingDutchman

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daspyknows

Carry the phone powered off. If you need it for an emergency you have it.

That's called paranoia and egoistic. If someone close needs you he cannot reach you.

Ridiculous. With that rationale, everyone prior to the invention of cell phones was paranoid and "egoistic".

I could agree with you that facilitating new or recent inventions like cell phones can lead to new "luxury problems".

I don't get the cell phone business. It reminds me of the toilet paper craze. Somebody help me.

If you are the only person to touch your cell phone and assuming the majority of times you go out and don't use it and it sits in your pocket or purse, then what's the issue? Yes, if you touch your cell phone and you assume that your hands are contaminated that's one thing. But if you don't "engage" with your cell phone when you go out then what's the big deal?

It's not about touching it because of the risk of the virus. When you take a cell phone with you it has the purpose of connecting with other people that have one and have turned it on. Turning it completely off implies that you only want to connect with other people for your own purpose. If other people would turn it off we might as well throw it away.So turning it off is a selfish act because it takes two connected phones to make an important call.

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TheflyingDutchman

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MileHigh

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TheflyingDutchman

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Hairball

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TheflyingDutchman

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daspyknows

Carry the phone powered off. If you need it for an emergency you have it.

That's called paranoia and egoistic. If someone close needs you he cannot reach you.

Ridiculous. With that rationale, everyone prior to the invention of cell phones was paranoid and "egoistic".

I could agree with you that facilitating new or recent inventions like cell phones can lead to new "luxury problems".

I don't get the cell phone business. It reminds me of the toilet paper craze. Somebody help me.

If you are the only person to touch your cell phone and assuming the majority of times you go out and don't use it and it sits in your pocket or purse, then what's the issue? Yes, if you touch your cell phone and you assume that your hands are contaminated that's one thing. But if you don't "engage" with your cell phone when you go out then what's the big deal?

It's not about touching it because of the risk of the virus. When you take a cell phone with you it has the purpose of connecting with other people that have one and have turned it on. Turning it completely off implies that you only want to connect with other people for your own purpose. If other people would turn it off we might as well throw it away.So turning it off is a selfish act because it takes two connected phones to make an important call.

My apologies I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't addressing the on/off issue. Yes, keep your cell phone on. But do you have to wipe it down every time you come home if you are the only person that touches it and presuming your hands are not contaminated? Or you might not touch it at all. If some people believe that it makes no sense to me.

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MileHigh
My apologies I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't addressing the on/off issue. Yes, keep your cell phone on. But do you have to wipe it down every time you come home if you are the only person that touches it and presuming your hands are not contaminated? Or you might not touch it at all. If some people believe that it makes no sense to me.

The cell phones are a magnet, so to speak, for germs, bacteria etc.

Point of not using it at the store for example, is that you take care not to touch your face etc. because you may have touched something there with the virus on it.

You sanitize your hands before you touch your car, and wash them right away when you get home, yet if you touch your phone and then put it to your face, you just put the virus to your face.

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MileHigh

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TheflyingDutchman

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MileHigh

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TheflyingDutchman

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Hairball

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TheflyingDutchman

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daspyknows

Carry the phone powered off. If you need it for an emergency you have it.

That's called paranoia and egoistic. If someone close needs you he cannot reach you.

Ridiculous. With that rationale, everyone prior to the invention of cell phones was paranoid and "egoistic".

I could agree with you that facilitating new or recent inventions like cell phones can lead to new "luxury problems".

I don't get the cell phone business. It reminds me of the toilet paper craze. Somebody help me.

If you are the only person to touch your cell phone and assuming the majority of times you go out and don't use it and it sits in your pocket or purse, then what's the issue? Yes, if you touch your cell phone and you assume that your hands are contaminated that's one thing. But if you don't "engage" with your cell phone when you go out then what's the big deal?

It's not about touching it because of the risk of the virus. When you take a cell phone with you it has the purpose of connecting with other people that have one and have turned it on. Turning it completely off implies that you only want to connect with other people for your own purpose. If other people would turn it off we might as well throw it away.So turning it off is a selfish act because it takes two connected phones to make an important call.

My apologies I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't addressing the on/off issue. Yes, keep your cell phone on. But do you have to wipe it down every time you come home if you are the only person that touches it and presuming your hands are not contaminated? Or you might not touch it at all. If some people believe that it makes no sense to me.

What do you mean by powered off then, sorry for my poor English?

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TheflyingDutchman

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MileHigh

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TheflyingDutchman

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MileHigh

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TheflyingDutchman

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Hairball

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TheflyingDutchman

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daspyknows

Carry the phone powered off. If you need it for an emergency you have it.

That's called paranoia and egoistic. If someone close needs you he cannot reach you.

Ridiculous. With that rationale, everyone prior to the invention of cell phones was paranoid and "egoistic".

I could agree with you that facilitating new or recent inventions like cell phones can lead to new "luxury problems".

I don't get the cell phone business. It reminds me of the toilet paper craze. Somebody help me.

If you are the only person to touch your cell phone and assuming the majority of times you go out and don't use it and it sits in your pocket or purse, then what's the issue? Yes, if you touch your cell phone and you assume that your hands are contaminated that's one thing. But if you don't "engage" with your cell phone when you go out then what's the big deal?

It's not about touching it because of the risk of the virus. When you take a cell phone with you it has the purpose of connecting with other people that have one and have turned it on. Turning it completely off implies that you only want to connect with other people for your own purpose. If other people would turn it off we might as well throw it away.So turning it off is a selfish act because it takes two connected phones to make an important call.

My apologies I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't addressing the on/off issue. Yes, keep your cell phone on. But do you have to wipe it down every time you come home if you are the only person that touches it and presuming your hands are not contaminated? Or you might not touch it at all. If some people believe that it makes no sense to me.

What do you mean by powered off then, sorry for my poor English?

"powered off" = "no power" = "off."

"Powered off" where "powered" implies the verb action of switching something off. i.e.; Your hand makes a movement to switch (or turn) something off. "You are powering it off."

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crholmstrom
Officially it's been 2-3 weeks but most people have been doing shelter in place for a month +. Of course there are your idiots (at least one in every crowd) who were denying the crisis or ignoring it. That's why the people who were doing the correct thing can't take a walk in the park this weekend. The lowest common denominator rules again.

I’m sorry not to know the specifics in WA, are you locked down to the extent that no one is allowed to use public’s walks, trails, etc.?

THE AGE -- 12 April 2020



ROCKMAN