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Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: artedm ()
Date: March 6, 2020 05:26

was an article in billboard magazine regarding coachella festival 99,000 people

and the technical liability of a cancellation-

"Most promoters aren’t covered for pandemic diseases within their event cancellation insurance because most event insurance policies exclude infectious disease coverage in their policies. Event producers who want it typically have to purchase a waiver to opt in -- which few producers actually opt for, and now is too late to buy.
if
the festival is ultimately being canceled because of global pandemic, they will likely cite the force majeure clause of the performance contract which waves liability for cancellations beyond a promoter’s control. The Latin phrase translates to “superior force” and is often referred to as the “hand of God” meaning weather events, emergencies and unforeseen crises that make a concert impossible.

Force majeure clauses generally state that promoters are not required to pay artists for cancellations caused by external factors, like a local government agency pulling an event’s permits over Coronavirus concerns.

That then leads to the final stage for Coachella -- the triggering of force majeure, which has to be done by an outside agency like a local health department of law enforcement agency. It’s not enough for a concert to be worried about negative press the spread of pandemic disease -- for force majeure to be triggered, a promoter has to be able to show that they were given no other choice but to cancel, often at the insistence of public officials.

“That puts a lot of power in the hands of local officials, many of whom are unelected,” While some officials could be quick to cancel an event despite the lack of a clear threat, others could refuse to issue a cancelation order out of fear of retaliation or to protect a city’s investment in an event that may generate tax dollars through hotel stays and sales tax revenue.
(In 2016, Coachella and Stagecoach were projected to bring in $704 million in overall economic activity, according the Coachella Valley Economic Partnership and Greater Palm Springs Convention and Visitors Bureau.)

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: DeanGoodman ()
Date: March 6, 2020 05:35

^ "... they will likely cite the force majeure clause of the performance contract which waves liability for cancellations beyond a promoter’s control. The Latin phrase translates ..."

I don't remember learning this phrase in Latin class. What declension is it, oh Billboard?

But there's a key quote here at the end. If Coachella goes, then it's all over?

“If Coachella gets canceled, there’s really no events that are probably safe,” says [Coachella promoter Kevin] Lyman, noting that the collapse of one of the world’s largest festivals would undermine confidence in the entire live music ecosystem.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-06 05:42 by DeanGoodman.

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: March 6, 2020 06:22

Makes sense if insurance is indeed on a city by city basis, the tour could conceivably have a show or two where they have to postpone or cancel.
Especially with local authorities calling the shots.

None or likely to have to postpone imo, but if I had to choose locations most likely based on that criteria, I would say the opener in San Diego and Vancouver. Both early May and both in locations where local authorities are more apt to err on the side of caution.

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: StonedAsiaExile ()
Date: March 6, 2020 07:15

Quote
treaclefingers
Quote
Slimreaper
This is complete Horseshit !...95.000 cases worldwide, 3,300 dead world wide as of Mar 5 2020 8pm EST source CNN....What is your source? Why do you post garbage like this? This is why this thread shold be deleted.

Oh lord...so you're "fake news'ing" this?

I don't think this thread is actually about debating whether or not their IS a coronavirus.

Go hang out on a political forum...you'll get way more entertainment value.

What are the sources? There are plenty. Now, the question is are they accurate? We may never know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-06 07:15 by StonedAsiaExile.

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: Toru A ()
Date: March 6, 2020 08:25

Just announced that Bob Dylan additional show at NHK Hall on April 24 in Shibuya, Tokyo has been postponed.
Ouch!

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: lem motlow ()
Date: March 6, 2020 09:38

I’m not trying to compare the two events but I went to New Orleans last year with a hurricane just off shore thinking the Stones would probably jump on a private jet and zip back into town an hour before the show.
The band not only stayed in town but were spotted in the French Quarter Friday and Saturday before the show on Sunday.
They moved the show to Monday but never left town with a hurricane looming.
That badass Stones rep is a real thing, these guys don’t back off, they proved that to me.
If they cancel anything it’s because shit has gone really, really sideways.
My guess is this whole thing fizzles out well before the tour starts, but then again I was the guy who thought Mick probably tore a knee ligament last year.
I pray that’s it’s alright ..

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: Kerryann ()
Date: March 6, 2020 09:48

I know I'm going to be unpopular for saying this but I kind of hope the tour is postponed until later in the year, or next year. I will be flying half way around the world to attend and don't like the thought of moving through busy airports and being in close contact with others at the 4 shows I've booked. For me the concern of catching the virus would stuff the excitement and enjoyment of the shows.
I think we're at the very start of this and that the number of cases are going to escalate sharply in the coming weeks. A lot of the people attending these concerts will be in older age groups and vulnerable if infected. Lets hope the USA can get this under control and prevent too much spread, but if China is the example it's likely postponement of the tour might be the least of our worries.
If only Bourbon was the cure smileys with beer

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Date: March 6, 2020 10:54

Quote
Slimreaper
This thread is a REAL DRAG....please delete it.Thank you

Yes, delete it - it bores slimreaper!

No one's forcing you to read this thread, right?

The rest of us who have bought tickets for the shows appreciate the updates. I hope that's alright with you?

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: schwonek ()
Date: March 6, 2020 11:31

Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Slimreaper
This thread is a REAL DRAG....please delete it.Thank you

Yes, delete it - it bores slimreaper!

No one's forcing you to read this thread, right?

The rest of us who have bought tickets for the shows appreciate the updates. I hope that's alright with you?

I get both of you. This thread is a real drag, as is the virus. Still, we have to think about it and act accordingly.

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Date: March 6, 2020 11:43

Quote
schwonek
Quote
DandelionPowderman
Quote
Slimreaper
This thread is a REAL DRAG....please delete it.Thank you

Yes, delete it - it bores slimreaper!

No one's forcing you to read this thread, right?

The rest of us who have bought tickets for the shows appreciate the updates. I hope that's alright with you?

I get both of you. This thread is a real drag, as is the virus. Still, we have to think about it and act accordingly.

It's a drag that this virus exists, not that we get valuable information on how it may inflict the tour.

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: Topi ()
Date: March 6, 2020 12:02

In France, concerts and events with more than 5000 people before May 31 have already been postponed TBD. For example the Queen & Adam Lambert show that was scheduled for May 26:





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-06 12:06 by Topi.

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: franzk ()
Date: March 6, 2020 12:56

I'd like to point out one interesting thing that people may be omitting. The coronavirus death rate is around 3.5% everywhere EXCEPT South Korea. While they have the second largest number of infected people (after China), only 42 people died so far, therefore their death rate is only 0.6%. I don't know if they have better healthcare, or their government's reaction was faster and more strict or South Koreans are more disciplined, but maybe we should follow their example.

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: bv ()
Date: March 6, 2020 13:10

I will never delete this thread. The reason is simple, it is very ON topic, because there is a Stones tour in USA & Canada this summer, and the Coronavirus outbreak might put this tour in danger, serious danger.

Facts based information is essential these days. I try my best to remove fake information here, as well as emotional posts like "the earth is flat" and so on. We are beyond this point now.

FACTS:

The World Health Organization - WHO - has got a live reports pages which are very useful for understanding the situation right now. I am adding this link to the first page of this thread, as it is probably the most important source of info right now:

Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) Situation

China has got 81,000 cases and 3,000 deaths as per today. That is equivalent to a death rate of 3.7%, vs the general flu being at 0.1%.

Detailed figures from China say that the male fatality rate is more like 4% while the female rate is much lower below 2%. The reason might be twofold: 50% of all men in China are smoking, while female smoking is rare, just 3%. Also, women are known to be at a stronger health in general, at age compared to men.

Tne coronavirus mutated at an early stage in China. The virus we have got in Europe and America is probably the mutated virus, which is less fatal, but a lot more aggressive in spreading, as it is spreading long time before people get really sick, almost just a few days after they had contact with other people.

Virological experts in Europe estimate the fatality rate of the mutated virus to be in the range of 0.5%, which is still a lot more dangerous than the average flu. So far the coronavirus have not reached the weaker population, like old people and people with respatorial problems. When that happens, the fatality rate will unforunately increase to may be 1%.

So far the facts. Then the calculations. I have been asking myself one question: Why are there so many fatalities vs total cases in USA? Right now, from memory, I think I have read somewhere that 5 of of total 50 coronacases in California has died? Right or wrong? Anyway, WHO latest info says USA totals today are 148 reported cases and 10 fatalities. That is a fatality rate of 7%, which is surely wrong. There may be one reason only for this - the number of actual coronavirus cases in total in USA right now are incorrect. I am pretty sure that there are at least 1,000 coronavirus cases in USA right now, if the fatality rate is 1%.

In Norway health care is free. You pay $10 to see the doctor, then the state pay the rest to the doctor. We have so far 56 cases as reported by WHO, and for real 101 cases as reported by the autorities today. So far no fatalities.

Italy has got 3,858 cases reported and 148 deaths, which gives a fatality rate of 4%. My guess is that more than 15,000 people are really sick from the coronavirus in Italy, but they have a mild version, and they do not test themselves, probably because it would cost money, I don't know how the Italian health system works.

The fatalities are more to be trusted than the reported numbers of coronavirus cases, simply because it is hard to hide or ignore a death, while sick people may stay at home or simply keep away from the health system.

I will NOT allow any political discussions here. It is fact that the health systems are different in different parts of the world. The reason for this thread is twofold:

1. General information about the coronavirus
2. Understanding if and how the virus may affect the Stones tour 2020

Please keep the discussions facts based here. Thanks.

Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: bv ()
Date: March 6, 2020 13:17

I am asked all the time, many times every day, if the Stones tour this year in USA/CA will be on, or if it will be off. Sorry I don't know, but my fear is the fact that the coronavirus will be in all states of USA by March and April, and then it would be hard to have 50,000 people at a stadium close together. It will get political, whether we like it or not.

The following article might have been taken as a political post, but if you read the facts there, then I think you might see why the number of fatalities as reported in USA are much higher than the average in other countries, as compared to the total number of real coronavirus cases.

Why America is so vulnerable to coronavirus

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-06 13:26 by bv.

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: soundofblues ()
Date: March 6, 2020 14:56

Quote
bv
I am asked all the time, many times every day, if the Stones tour this year in USA/CA will be on, or if it will be off. Sorry I don't know, but my fear is the fact that the coronavirus will be in all states of USA by March and April, and then it would be hard to have 50,000 people at a stadium close together. It will get political, whether we like it or not.

The following article might have been taken as a political post, but if you read the facts there, then I think you might see why the number of fatalities as reported in USA are much higher than the average in other countries, as compared to the total number of real coronavirus cases.

Why America is so vulnerable to coronavirus

The same must apply to all other artists/bands including sport and other events as well....

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: WelshEdge1 ()
Date: March 6, 2020 14:57

A concert related coronavirus story - [www.nzherald.co.nz]

"Fourth coronavirus patient was at Tool rock concert with thousands of Aucklanders"

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: March 6, 2020 15:15

[data.oecd.org]

The U.S. health system manages to vaccinate a higher percentage of people over 65, the most vulnerable, than most nations.

[www.worldlifeexpectancy.com]

Perhaps as a result, American death rates from flu are comparable to European countries, lower than Scandanavian countries but higher than Germany.

[en.wikipedia.org]

A chart that shows Americans smoke less than most European countries.

Also happy to read the death rate from coronavirus is down to 1 pct as opposed to the 3.5 pct number that is being reported. The facts change as more information is known, and it is known that viruses mutate and people build up immunity.

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: March 6, 2020 15:47

Quote
bv

So far the facts. Then the calculations. I have been asking myself one question: Why are there so many fatalities vs total cases in USA? Right now, from memory, I think I have read somewhere that 5 of of total 50 coronacases in California has died? Right or wrong?

To my knowledge there has been only one death attributed to the virus in California. That was a person from a cruise ship which is currently quarantined awaiting results from testing for remaining passengers. 13 deaths here in Wa, seven from one nursing facility, making 14 total deaths in the country, Info changes quickly, these stats are from this AM via CNN.
[www.cnn.com]

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: bv ()
Date: March 6, 2020 15:49

Quote
wonderboy
[data.oecd.org]

The U.S. health system manages to vaccinate a higher percentage of people over 65, the most vulnerable, than most nations.

[www.worldlifeexpectancy.com]

Perhaps as a result, American death rates from flu are comparable to European countries, lower than Scandanavian countries but higher than Germany.

[en.wikipedia.org]

A chart that shows Americans smoke less than most European countries.

Also happy to read the death rate from coronavirus is down to 1 pct as opposed to the 3.5 pct number that is being reported. The facts change as more information is known, and it is known that viruses mutate and people build up immunity.

Interesting statistics indeed, but the wikipedia list of smoking percentage per country is incorrect. It says that 22% of the population in Norway is smoking as per 2015, which is completely wrong. The right number is 9% as of 2019, and it has been single digit for a while now.

Tobacco Control in Norway

I travel a lot, and I see a lot more smoking people in the south of Europe vs the North. I guess it is related to the banning of smoking in restaurants, bars, and of course the price of tobacco, plus general public information over the past few decades from the authorities.

Having the flu shot vaccine is of course important for anyone over age 65, but in my country it cost $20 or so, I assume many old people are very tight with their money, the older people are the more stubborn they are unfortunately. Even worse, the pnemonia vaccine is probably more important, but many in Norway don't take it, even if they are above 65, because it cost a bit, like $40 or so. That is not a lot of money, it is hardly more than a couple of six packs of beer, but again, old people are not logical always.

Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: bv ()
Date: March 6, 2020 15:52

Quote
MisterDDDD
Quote
bv

So far the facts. Then the calculations. I have been asking myself one question: Why are there so many fatalities vs total cases in USA? Right now, from memory, I think I have read somewhere that 5 of of total 50 coronacases in California has died? Right or wrong?

To my knowledge there has been only one death attributed to the virus in California. That was a person from a cruise ship which is currently quarantined awaiting results from testing for remaining passengers. 13 deaths here in Wa, seven from one nursing facility, making 14 total deaths in the country, Info changes quickly, these stats are from this AM via CNN.
[www.cnn.com]

Thanks for the update. May be I mixed up CALIF with Washington state. The WA numbers are 70 cases and 13 deaths. That is what I am trying to say, the "70" number is hiding a lot more, given the fatality rate is 1%.

Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: kovach ()
Date: March 6, 2020 16:55

Trying to think logically about this...

Some say the world is overreacting, that the #'s are too low to worry about.

Maybe the proactive approach is the reason those #' s are low?? And maybe the new norm the world will adapt to in forbidding future outbreaks.

That being said, if this turns into an epidemic in the US and 1 of every 30 infected will die, I would be worried if they didn't postpone the tour (as much as I'm looking forward to taking my son for the 1st time in his hometown, and a buddy who's never seen them before).

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: Harm ()
Date: March 6, 2020 17:10

Quote
kovach
Trying to think logically about this...


Maybe the proactive approach is the reason those #' s are low?? And maybe the new norm the world will adapt to in forbidding future outbreaks.

).


Exactly

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: soundofblues ()
Date: March 6, 2020 18:09

[www.health.com]

"at least 12,000 people have died from influenza between Oct. 1, 2019 through Feb. 1, 2020, and the number of deaths may be as high as 30,000."

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: wonderboy ()
Date: March 6, 2020 18:13

In the US, the flu shot is free for those on Medicare.

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: bv ()
Date: March 6, 2020 18:36

No worries. No panic. For most of us the coronavirus is harmless. All the fuzz is due to solidarity with those few who do not handle the virus easily. If everyone do follow the advice from the health authorities, then the virus will slow down, and we will save lives.

Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: soundofblues ()
Date: March 6, 2020 19:21

Quote
bv
No worries. No panic. For most of us the coronavirus is harmless. All the fuzz is due to solidarity with those few who do not handle the virus easily. If everyone do follow the advice from the health authorities, then the virus will slow down, and we will save lives.

Well said Mr Bsmileys with beer

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: March 6, 2020 20:29

Quote
MisterDDDD
Quote
bv

So far the facts. Then the calculations. I have been asking myself one question: Why are there so many fatalities vs total cases in USA? Right now, from memory, I think I have read somewhere that 5 of of total 50 coronacases in California has died? Right or wrong?

To my knowledge there has been only one death attributed to the virus in California. That was a person from a cruise ship which is currently quarantined awaiting results from testing for remaining passengers. 13 deaths here in Wa, seven from one nursing facility, making 14 total deaths in the country, Info changes quickly, these stats are from this AM via CNN.
[www.cnn.com]

The Washington death toll likely higher than reported. The daughter of one of the nursing home fatalities was interviewed. Her mom was fine, her mom was sick, her mom dies within 24 hours. Daughter was told natural causes but was never tested. To make it worse, after death notification she was told her mom was fine. She wanted her mother tested post mortem and they refused. US number being under reported for some reason. Not saying anything political on this but I have my opinions.

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: March 6, 2020 20:52

Quote
daspyknows
Quote
MisterDDDD
Quote
bv

So far the facts. Then the calculations. I have been asking myself one question: Why are there so many fatalities vs total cases in USA? Right now, from memory, I think I have read somewhere that 5 of of total 50 coronacases in California has died? Right or wrong?

To my knowledge there has been only one death attributed to the virus in California. That was a person from a cruise ship which is currently quarantined awaiting results from testing for remaining passengers. 13 deaths here in Wa, seven from one nursing facility, making 14 total deaths in the country, Info changes quickly, these stats are from this AM via CNN.
[www.cnn.com]

The Washington death toll likely higher than reported. The daughter of one of the nursing home fatalities was interviewed. Her mom was fine, her mom was sick, her mom dies within 24 hours. Daughter was told natural causes but was never tested. To make it worse, after death notification she was told her mom was fine. She wanted her mother tested post mortem and they refused. US number being under reported for some reason. Not saying anything political on this but I have my opinions.

daspyknows, see article bv posted above about why US so vulnerable. some interesting stuff in there. it's an opinion piece but lot of interesting factual stuff in it.

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: Harm ()
Date: March 6, 2020 21:18

Quote
bv
No worries. No panic. For most of us the coronavirus is harmless. All the fuzz is due to solidarity with those few who do not handle the virus easily. If everyone do follow the advice from the health authorities, then the virus will slow down, and we will save lives.

thumbs up

Re: Coronavirus disease COVID-19 and The Rolling Stones US/CA 2020 Tour
Posted by: powerage78 ()
Date: March 6, 2020 21:22

Even (yes) for a Stones Tour, the precautionary principle will be plenty observed.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

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