Not sure if this has been posted here yet?
For those keeping score -

[www.arcgis.com]

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spikenyc
Not sure if this has been posted here yet?
For those keeping score -

[www.arcgis.com]

They should make similar graphics for other diseases as well

There seems to be some confusion about how dangerous the Coronavirus is, as compared to the general flu (influenza).

FACTS:

Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season

Conclusion: CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season.

35.5 million illnesses and 34,200 deaths => fatality rate = 0,1% i.e. one out of thousand

CORONAVIRUS COVID-19 CURRENT STATUS:

The COVID-19 fatality rate is 3,4% according to the WHO manager Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus statement today.

That means the COVID-19 is 30-40 times more dangerous that the general annual flu.

Another important factor not to be forgotten regarding the flu vs the coronavirus:

Old people, and everyone else in the danger zone, having issues with breath or other medical cases, may take vaccine every year, and this way get 70% or more protection vs the general flu.

There is NO protection i.e. no vaccine to avoid the coronavirus.

Please DO NOT make jokes about the Coronavirus.

It is dangerous, and it has killed many already, people die from it every year, without any kinds of protection.

DO NOT TRAVEL TO AREAS WITH VIRUS ISSUES. DO NOT TAKE ANY RISKS. PLEASE RESPECT THE RULE OF SOLIDARITY I.E. EVEN IF YOU FEEL STRONG, YOU MAY PROTECT MANY OTHERS BY NOT TAKING RISKS.

Bjornulf

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spikenyc
Not sure if this has been posted here yet?
For those keeping score -

[www.arcgis.com]

One way to increase panic. Great.

The 4 deaths in France were all in their 80s/90s...I'm more under the impression that politicians and their pharaceutical buddies are trying to use this to divert attention from other issues...and the media is all too happy to participate.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-03 21:29 by FrogSugar.

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FrogSugar
The 4 deaths in France were all in their 80s/90s...I'm more under the impression that politicians and their pharaceutical buddies are trying to use this to divert attention from other issues...and the media is all too happy to participate.

In the United States,there have been 7 deaths,and all were elderly,living in a nursing home.The experts here inAmerica are saying if you have a preexisting respiratory condition,elderly ,and have reduced lung capacity,like a removed lung, you are extremely vulnerable .As of today,supposedly no children under 14 have gotten it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-03 22:51 by Taylor1.

Quote
bv
There seems to be some confusion about how dangerous the Coronavirus is, as compared to the general flu (influenza).

FACTS:

Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season

Conclusion: CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season.

35.5 million illnesses and 34,200 deaths => fatality rate = 0,1% i.e. one out of thousand

CORONAVIRUS COVID-19 CURRENT STATUS:

The COVID-19 fatality rate is 3,4% according to the WHO manager Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus statement today.

That means the COVID-19 is 30-40 times more dangerous that the general annual flu.

Another important factor not to be forgotten regarding the flu vs the coronavirus:

Old people, and everyone else in the danger zone, having issues with breath or other medical cases, may take vaccine every year, and this way get 70% or more protection vs the general flu.

There is NO protection i.e. no vaccine to avoid the coronavirus.

Please DO NOT make jokes about the Coronavirus.

It is dangerous, and it has killed many already, people die from it every year, without any kinds of protection.

DO NOT TRAVEL TO AREAS WITH VIRUS ISSUES. DO NOT TAKE ANY RISKS. PLEASE RESPECT THE RULE OF SOLIDARITY I.E. EVEN IF YOU FEEL STRONG, YOU MAY PROTECT MANY OTHERS BY NOT TAKING RISKS.

Nobody says that coronavirus is not a problem, but these days there is a disproportionate media terrorism, regarding the real risks, which as regards people in good health are minimal if not zero. However it is true that there are problems for the elderly and people with health problems, but the fact that we also talk about it in a forum where we should discuss music, shows that there is an inability in people to absorb information.

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FrogSugar
The 4 deaths in France were all in their 80s/90s...I'm more under the impression that politicians and their pharaceutical buddies are trying to use this to divert attention from other issues...and the media is all too happy to participate.

Wrong (and sad) on MANY levels...I'll stick to the simplest of levels : 81, 60, 89 and 9x

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-03 23:19 by gotdablouse.

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Testify

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bv
There seems to be some confusion about how dangerous the Coronavirus is, as compared to the general flu (influenza).

FACTS:

Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season

Conclusion: CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season.

35.5 million illnesses and 34,200 deaths => fatality rate = 0,1% i.e. one out of thousand

CORONAVIRUS COVID-19 CURRENT STATUS:

The COVID-19 fatality rate is 3,4% according to the WHO manager Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus statement today.

That means the COVID-19 is 30-40 times more dangerous that the general annual flu.

Another important factor not to be forgotten regarding the flu vs the coronavirus:

Old people, and everyone else in the danger zone, having issues with breath or other medical cases, may take vaccine every year, and this way get 70% or more protection vs the general flu.

There is NO protection i.e. no vaccine to avoid the coronavirus.

Please DO NOT make jokes about the Coronavirus.

It is dangerous, and it has killed many already, people die from it every year, without any kinds of protection.

DO NOT TRAVEL TO AREAS WITH VIRUS ISSUES. DO NOT TAKE ANY RISKS. PLEASE RESPECT THE RULE OF SOLIDARITY I.E. EVEN IF YOU FEEL STRONG, YOU MAY PROTECT MANY OTHERS BY NOT TAKING RISKS.

Nobody says that coronavirus is not a problem, but these days there is a disproportionate media terrorism, regarding the real risks, which as regards people in good health are minimal if not zero. However it is true that there are problems for the elderly and people with health problems, but the fact that we also talk about it in a forum where we should discuss music, shows that there is an inability in people to absorb information.

The topic is relevant if you're following along, as it came up in connection with the forthcoming tour, as so many large events globally have already been cancelled. Or to make it simple for you, just read the thread title.

BV is giving accurate stats, so your pontificating about 'media terrorism' itself sounds disproportionate, even if for some reason you're disagreeing with the facts.

To put it in a completely different way, why are you on a thread that you disagree with so passionately? The health risk to people in good health is not zero...don't perpetuate a myth...something you don't have a clue about.

PLUS...have you considered the age of the average Stones fan? RIGHT in the COVID 19 sweet spot.

This thread should be a place for intelligent discussion about the thread topic, not a debate about whether it's a media hoax. If you don't like this thread, there are a few others on IORR that may better suit you.

OK, sorry for my rant...carry on.

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soundofblues

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spikenyc
Not sure if this has been posted here yet?
For those keeping score -

[www.arcgis.com]

One way to increase panic. Great.

All this is, is information. I'm not panicking...are you?

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treaclefingers

Quote
soundofblues

Quote
spikenyc
Not sure if this has been posted here yet?
For those keeping score -

[www.arcgis.com]

One way to increase panic. Great.

All this is, is information. I'm not panicking...are you?

Mainly laughs but thanks for asking...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-04 00:19 by soundofblues.

"Media terrorism" is one of the dumbest notions I think I've encountered recently.

The Stones, being old men, while traveling in the best conditions, will need to take precautions as well as the fans. This flu stays viable and is transmitted in the air. They are literally exposed to the germs of thousands of people. I'm sure they are concerned.

I must say that there seems to have been an increase in mean-spirited comments in various threads by internet keyboard warriors here lately. Yes,they have always been here but it's becoming increasingly unpleasant. Not sure why but I wish people would dial it back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-04 02:05 by bleedingman.

I suspect in some cases the hope is if they speak out enough, the thread will be closed for having turned political.

I understand the mindset, but it becomes very simple. If this is hysteria, the damage done to economies by shutting down will not be undone by posting on a message board that you think it is just hysteria. If the experts are correct and this ends up killing a large percentage of people (some of us, our families and friends, old rock stars, etc.), we will all wish everyone would have done even more to contain it.

This thread is important for trying to help people. Hopefully that will be reinforced.

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Rocky Dijon
I suspect in some cases the hope is if they speak out enough, the thread will be closed for having turned political.

I understand the mindset, but it becomes very simple. If this is hysteria, the damage done to economies by shutting down will not be undone by posting on a message board that you think it is just hysteria. If the experts are correct and this ends up killing a large percentage of people (some of us, our families and friends, old rock stars, etc.), we will all wish everyone would have done even more to contain it.

This thread is important for trying to help people. Hopefully that will be reinforced.

I haven't posted on IORR for a while (those who know me why) but this post is spot on. I am a trained scientist of many years, I've also worked in the Pharmaceutical business for a long time. This is no joking matter. If this virus develops into another strain we have much more serious problems than we are looking at right now. The comparisons with flu are not equivalent. We have a flu vaccine, we have anti viral therapies for flu. Coronavirus we did not, simple as that. Given time, and good luck, hard immunity will prevail but right now please don't treat this as some scaremongering issue. Stay safe everyone and safe travels if you're determined to go. Statistically you'll be fine. Just don't joke about it, please.

Satisfied since 1976

My advice is to find the middle-of-the-road solution for your comfort zone and trust your instincts. The people that say there is nothing to worry about and it's all hype are on one extreme. The people that might say it's time to go into your underground bunker are on the other extreme. Find a reasonable middle of the road. What's on the news is real. The fact that it is very contagious is real.

Now, if the pandemic hits your city or country then you have to be rational. Let's say that 10% of the population is infected, and a proportion of those people are incubating the virus and not aware that they have it. Under those conditions when you go to the supermarket to buy your food you are probably going to be within two meters of let's say 100 people. That means it's almost a certainty that you are going to be in close proximity with someone that has the virus. So you need your gloves, goggles and filtration mask. The air in the supermarket will be filled with a suspension of atomized water droplets and some of those water droplets will be carrying the coronavirus.

Find the middle-of-the-road solution that is right for you and trust your own instincts. Don't "parrot" what some lay person in the media is telling you. Do some research and read differing views, etc. In my opinion we could be living though a modern version of the 1918-19 Spanish flue this year. I am not 100% certain of that at all, I am just a lay person. But I recognize the possibility of that actually happening.

Dr. John Campbell in the UK sharing his insights might have been mentioned already:

[www.youtube.com]

Quote
wonderboy
Spot on, Lem.
We really have lost our ability to do realistic risk assessments.

Thanks wonderboy

I grew up in the U.S during the heart of the Cold War, people didn’t hide things from children the way they do now.
We were made keenly aware that ICBMs from the Soviet Union were pointing directly at us and one calculation or miscalculation on either side and the world we lived in ceased to exist.
I distinctly remember being in a group of 6, 7 and 8 year olds having discussions about how it happens. “ it’s a big fireball that comes at you” -“ No, no no it’s a flash of light then you’re gone”
This was also the aftermath of polio. One of my friends gathered up the courage to ask our teacher why she walked with a cane.
She patiently explained how the disease attacked her and a great man stopped it so it wouldn’t happen to us.
Suddenly all the people I saw in the grocery store with my mom or walking on the street with canes, leg braces and wheelchairs made sense. This could be me,I could be handicapped if something comes along, or I could be turned to dust in an instant.
This was my world growing up and what shapes my worldview.it also makes it hard for me not to take, let’s just say a measured approach as to when to start shaking in my boots.I really hope you’ll understand.

Or maybe I’m just trying to sound like a tough guy on the internet.ha ha ha

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lem motlow

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wonderboy
Spot on, Lem.
We really have lost our ability to do realistic risk assessments.

Thanks wonderboy

I grew up in the U.S during the heart of the Cold War, people didn’t hide things from children the way they do now.
We were made keenly aware that ICBMs from the Soviet Union were pointing directly at us and one calculation or miscalculation on either side and the world we lived in ceased to exist.
I distinctly remember being in a group of 6, 7 and 8 year olds having discussions about how it happens. “ it’s a big fireball that comes at you” -“ No, no no it’s a flash of light then you’re gone”
This was also the aftermath of polio. One of my friends gathered up the courage to ask our teacher why she walked with a cane.
She patiently explained how the disease attacked her and a great man stopped it so it wouldn’t happen to us.
Suddenly all the people I saw in the grocery store with my mom or walking on the street with canes, leg braces and wheelchairs made sense. This could be me,I could be handicapped if something comes along, or I could be turned to dust in an instant.
This was my world growing up and what shapes my worldview.it also makes it hard for me not to take, let’s just say a measured approach as to when to start shaking in my boots.I really hope you’ll understand.

Or maybe I’m just trying to sound like a tough guy on the internet.ha ha ha

Nice post.

Rod

Quote
bleedingman
The Stones, being old men, while traveling in the best conditions, will need to take precautions as well as the fans. This flu stays viable and is transmitted in the air. They are literally exposed to the germs of thousands of people. I'm sure they are concerned.

I must say that there seems to have been an increase in mean-spirited comments in various threads by internet keyboard warriors here lately. Yes,they have always been here but it's becoming increasingly unpleasant. Not sure why but I wish people would dial it back.

I wondered how long it would take before somebody noticed that the Stones themselves might be at some risk if the shows go ahead. Lots of people here cheerfully saying that of course only the elderly are at risk - but that includes many people likely to go to the concerts (and me!), as well as the band.
This thing is no respecter of persons - I see the Pope was recently tested (negative).

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jlowe

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StonedAsiaExile

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jlowe
I am in Singapore at the moment following a holiday in Australia and New Zealand.
Definitely much quieter here...there are usually 10,000 visitors from China DAILY. So the local tourist trade definitely suffering.
Random body temperature checks taking place in some venues, including Airports. Face masks more prevalent.
Financial Markets being irrational, as per usual.
Saw a chap today, very overweight remove his mask to have a cigarette. You couldn't make it up really.

Yeah, I'm quite enjoying the quiet here. Restaurants in my neighborhood are discounting meals and my wife is having a blast shopping with all the discounts. She promised to stop shopping for a few months so I could go on tour but you women (eyes rolling).....need to find another way to bribe her.

Tales from Singapore, Part 2:
- Visited the Chinatown area (naturally)and tried to gain admittance to the Heritage Centre but failed the 'temperature test'. The temp outside is 35 degrees which for us Brits is a bit hot. They kindly showed me an air conditioned area and suprise suprise after a period of 10 seconds I was tested again + was deemed healthy enough to enter (and pay the 18 dollar charge).
-The regular firework and light show in Marina Bay has been cancelled due to the virus. (since early February). Shame.

Glad you got in. At least people here have common sense; in a country to the north they would have carted you off to a quarantine area lol...yeah, bad abt the fireworks.

I will delete any offending or stupid posts here, so no worries about this thread being closed.

I live in a highly educated country (Norway). Today at noon the press conference from the health authorities was NOT focused on the fact that 33 people were positive confirmed with the Coronavirus (of which most got it in North Italy on travel). Their focus was having a limited number of respirators. In short, they are planning for a widespread virus, and they are now working on respirator logistics on a national level.

With age in the 70's for Stones members and many fans, and with smoking history, which increase the risk, I would expect a bit more soft spoken comments
when talking about this virus, which might close down the Olympics in Japan, as well as the tour, if it is getting out of control during the next month or so.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-04 12:57 by bv.

"To be honest, tour or not tour is not my biggest concern right now. Concert tickets may be refunded if the tour is off, but if people get sick, that is a lot more serious." - BV

Couldn't agree more, Bjornulf!

We have to keep in mind, it's not just about the COVID-19 situation in the US.

The tour may have to be cancelled if any of the band members gets sick before the tour starts. In this context, an outbreak in the UK (or wherever the band members reside) would be just as crucial as an outbreak in the States.

Very seriously, unless the COVID-19 issue is over, I really don't know if their doctors would give the go-ahead for a tour, as their age and medical condition (thinking of Mick's recent heart op) suggest they shoud be extra vigilant!

The Stones, as men in their mid/late 70s, fall in the age category that is most likely to develop complications from COVID19 It would be prudent to consider whether a tour presents an unacceptable health risk for them. That said, I think the numbers of cases will fall off dramatically when warmer weather arrives in the northern hemisphere.

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FrogSugar
The 4 deaths in France were all in their 80s/90s...

One of them was 60... but he had a previous condition that altered his health.

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bv
I will delete any offending or stupid posts here, so no worries about this thread being closed.

I live in a highly educated country (Norway). Today at noon the press conference from the health authorities was NOT focused on the fact that 33 people were positive confirmed with the Coronavirus (of which most got it in North Italy on travel). Their focus was having a limited number of respirators. In short, they are planning for a widespread virus, and they are now working on respirator logistics on a national level.

With age in the 70's for Stones members and many fans, and with smoking history, which increase the risk, I would expect a bit more soft spoken comments
when talking about this virus, which might close down the Olympics in Japan, as well as the tour, if it is getting out of control during the next month or so.

Thank you again, Bjornulf. You (& some people posting) have provided much good information here. You are providing a great service to the community here. I will try to provide updates from Seattle/Washington state when appropriate. There were 2 more deaths here yesterday bringing the total to 9, which it total for the US at this point. I was on the phone all day yesterday with my doctor team as I am high risk. There is a chance I already have the virus but I'm not quite meeting the criteria for testing. It could be side effects from some meds I'm on. I've been given quite specific instructions on how to proceed & essentially I'm in isolation, not quite quarantine. I am treating it like quarantine though. I would rather err on the side of caution than be reckless in any way. I have tickets for 2 of my favorite bands (Wilco & Drive-by Truckers) in 2 weeks on consecutive nights. Looks like I won't be going & will most like be absorbing the cost of the tickets. Small price to pay for everyone's safety. My friend who I was going with is freaked out & she's worried about me, too. Obviously attending would not be the smart move. Anyone who is interested I would suggest doing a bit of research on the Spanish flu of 1918. Especially how it was handled in Philadelphia. While things have changed, some of those changes are actually worse regarding spreading the virus. A bit of historical perspective is never a bad thing. Best to everyone & be safe out there. Chuck

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crholmstrom

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bv
I will delete any offending or stupid posts here, so no worries about this thread being closed.

I live in a highly educated country (Norway). Today at noon the press conference from the health authorities was NOT focused on the fact that 33 people were positive confirmed with the Coronavirus (of which most got it in North Italy on travel). Their focus was having a limited number of respirators. In short, they are planning for a widespread virus, and they are now working on respirator logistics on a national level.

With age in the 70's for Stones members and many fans, and with smoking history, which increase the risk, I would expect a bit more soft spoken comments
when talking about this virus, which might close down the Olympics in Japan, as well as the tour, if it is getting out of control during the next month or so.

Thank you again, Bjornulf. You (& some people posting) have provided much good information here. You are providing a great service to the community here. I will try to provide updates from Seattle/Washington state when appropriate. There were 2 more deaths here yesterday bringing the total to 9, which it total for the US at this point. I was on the phone all day yesterday with my doctor team as I am high risk. There is a chance I already have the virus but I'm not quite meeting the criteria for testing. It could be side effects from some meds I'm on. I've been given quite specific instructions on how to proceed & essentially I'm in isolation, not quite quarantine. I am treating it like quarantine though. I would rather err on the side of caution than be reckless in any way. I have tickets for 2 of my favorite bands (Wilco & Drive-by Truckers) in 2 weeks on consecutive nights. Looks like I won't be going & will most like be absorbing the cost of the tickets. Small price to pay for everyone's safety. My friend who I was going with is freaked out & she's worried about me, too. Obviously attending would not be the smart move. Anyone who is interested I would suggest doing a bit of research on the Spanish flu of 1918. Especially how it was handled in Philadelphia. While things have changed, some of those changes are actually worse regarding spreading the virus. A bit of historical perspective is never a bad thing. Best to everyone & be safe out there. Chuck

Living next door in BC we're watching pretty closely what's happening in your neighbourhood...we have our own cases but haven't as yet had the deadly outcomes.

Stay safe man!

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treaclefingers

Quote
crholmstrom

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bv
I will delete any offending or stupid posts here, so no worries about this thread being closed.

I live in a highly educated country (Norway). Today at noon the press conference from the health authorities was NOT focused on the fact that 33 people were positive confirmed with the Coronavirus (of which most got it in North Italy on travel). Their focus was having a limited number of respirators. In short, they are planning for a widespread virus, and they are now working on respirator logistics on a national level.

With age in the 70's for Stones members and many fans, and with smoking history, which increase the risk, I would expect a bit more soft spoken comments
when talking about this virus, which might close down the Olympics in Japan, as well as the tour, if it is getting out of control during the next month or so.

Thank you again, Bjornulf. You (& some people posting) have provided much good information here. You are providing a great service to the community here. I will try to provide updates from Seattle/Washington state when appropriate. There were 2 more deaths here yesterday bringing the total to 9, which it total for the US at this point. I was on the phone all day yesterday with my doctor team as I am high risk. There is a chance I already have the virus but I'm not quite meeting the criteria for testing. It could be side effects from some meds I'm on. I've been given quite specific instructions on how to proceed & essentially I'm in isolation, not quite quarantine. I am treating it like quarantine though. I would rather err on the side of caution than be reckless in any way. I have tickets for 2 of my favorite bands (Wilco & Drive-by Truckers) in 2 weeks on consecutive nights. Looks like I won't be going & will most like be absorbing the cost of the tickets. Small price to pay for everyone's safety. My friend who I was going with is freaked out & she's worried about me, too. Obviously attending would not be the smart move. Anyone who is interested I would suggest doing a bit of research on the Spanish flu of 1918. Especially how it was handled in Philadelphia. While things have changed, some of those changes are actually worse regarding spreading the virus. A bit of historical perspective is never a bad thing. Best to everyone & be safe out there. Chuck

Living next door in BC we're watching pretty closely what's happening in your neighbourhood...we have our own cases but haven't as yet had the deadly outcomes.

Stay safe man!

thanks, treaclefingers. doing best i can. hope that it is enough!

I am surprised how low key the health authorities are when it comes to risk, and where the coronavirus is currently around in volumes. I am sure the reason is they don't want to make any panic.

On the other hand, the press are just pushing any click bait they may invent. Last week one online site in my area stated "70% might get the coronavirus". Click here to read more they said. I did not click...

North Italy has been the main source for most cases in Norway, and for the rest of Europe, I guess. They say it is out of control only in small villages, but a doctor in Norway who was on vacation in the North of Italy flew home from an airport in Verona, and he took the coronavirus into his workplace at one of the largest hospitals in Oslo Norway, now the whole eye departmnet there is closed, with all the consequences of 100's of clients etc. If they had declared the whole of North Italy a risk zone then the spreading of the coronavirus might have been limited. There is also a sad fact about the North Italy spread - the patient being a root to the spread went two - 2 - times to the hospital and was rejected both times... Today I hear all schools and universities are closed in Italy.

Iran has got a lot of cases even if they banned flights to China long time ago. A business man still wanted to travel to China, so he booked flights to China via 3rd countries, and he did several trips from Iran to high risk places in China. He is said to be the source of the big numbers in Iran I hear.

USA with Seattle and the Washington state area is seriously affected, and it took may be three weeks until they realized it. Now they have the first source located, but also another person with no connections to the first source, with the same genetics of the virus as the source, meaning the coronavirus have been spreading for 2-3 weeks in that area without the knowledge of locals.

Singapore is close to China. They took extreme measures, with the history of SARS. Now they have contained most of the virus. I am not sure if the Singapore model would work all over the world, but it is better with too much control than too little control.

The best thing people may do is to keep being well informed about the local situation, and do not believe everything politicians and the press say, use you own mind, and trust sources with no political or commercial interests.

Bjornulf

Iran considers opening its prisons and free inmates as the disease spreads like wildfire in these confined premises... Whoa!