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CaptainCorella

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stickyfingers101


have a hamper outside your house for her to change out of her clothes immediately BEFORE entering your home.....clothes straight to the machine....she goes straight to the shower. Anti-Bacterial soap no matter what.

(Genuine question)

Does anti-bacterial soap have any effect on a virus?

This is a virus, not a bacteria. Both "bugs" can make people sick.

[www.merriam-webster.com]

Any person who doesn't care if their actions adversely impact the health of many others is morally corrupt. Period. Arguments that social distancing and partial shutdowns will cause drug abuse and suicides are ridiculous comparisons to the Covid death toll. Even the strictest lock-down of the entire nation wouldn't cause 80,000 suicides every 6 or 8 weeks. Not even close.

The Russian hacking/interference that the US Intelligence Agencies are talking about includes career trolls in social media and forums, posing as patriotic Americans. They establish credibility within whatever group they are intent on attacking, then they launch a narrow-minded, one sided argument that defies logic while stirring up hatred and division.

I can't help but wonder if some of the posters here are really Republican/Russian career trolls, or if they've found some "useful idiots" to carry on their attack. They complain that the have to feed their babies, but can't explain why they can't even apply for one of the many forms of public assistance to get through the crisis.

This will be a temporary crisis, unless the loudmouths blow it for everybody.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-12 07:54 by 5stringTele.

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Stoneage

Ps. BV, which are your sources for the COVID-19 being airborne? The WHO and the Swedish People's Health Authority says it's not. They say it spreads through droplets. Which is not the same as being airborne. Ds

I know you keep stating the virus is not airborne. That is why I posted the following on the very end of page 142 of this thread:

The corona virus is airborne

I listed seven - 7 - links and two - 2 - graphs. If the virus is NOT AT ALL airborne, then how come the persons C1 and C2 below, sitting some 3m i.e. 10 feet away from the only sick person A1, both get sick?

The droplets travel in air. May be they don't stay in the air for hours, and may be they don't travel through rooms, but they do not fall to the ground like larger drops.

There might be an academic discussion of how long and how far a virus may travel before you define it as being airborne. Forget about that discussion. Fact is if you work in an office, or sit in a restaurant, closer than 2-3 m from a person with covid-19, for more than 15 minutes, you may get the covid-19 disease. That is the tracing and quarantine norm in Norway, used in the Norwegian "Smittestopp" corona virus tracking app, and used by the tracing team, and that is why they talk about a minimum of 2m apart, even 3m would be better, indoor.

Airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2: The world should face the reality ( ScienceDirect, Volume 139, June 2020)



New York Times: A diagram of the arrangement of a restaurant’s tables and air conditioning airflow at site of an outbreak of coronavirus in Guangzhou, China. Red circles indicate the seating of future case-patients; the yellow-filled red circle indicates the index case, or first-documented, patient. Credit: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-12 12:01 by bv.

Posts quoted numerous times tend to get into personal fights, and will most probably be deleted. Try posting without quoting more than 2-3 times. Then you may avoid your post being deleted, not because your post is offending, but may be some of the other posts in the quote are offending.

Bjornulf

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TheflyingDutchman

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Doxa



It is actually sad to think that the corona crisis might end one big cultural era. Not only the touring days of the Stones but all those of other greats from their generation and of classical era of rock who are still here and have toured a lot in recent years: Dylan, Macca, Young, etc. We don't know when the things are back in 'normal' - are we talking about years - and these dudes aren't getting any younger. These legends have lived through so many phases and obstacles, and now this bloody virus is putting a stop on all this. Surely they - or some of them - will perform in some way or other in future, but be it again travelling the world and so on like we used to. I especially feel sad if Dylan's 'never-ending tour' stops like this.. For him it seems to be a way of life...

- Doxa

The Virus or vaccin is not the only problem . It's almost 100% sure already that there will be no pinkpop 2021 for the simple reason that all the big acts want to get payed in advance, but no insurance company will cover the bill.Vaccin,Virus or not. Don't worry about Dylan, the Stones or Young or Macca, they will write a song about it. I feel sorry for the less privileged bands and musicians that can hardly survive or still have to establish their name, the smaller clubs and theaters.The real cultural damage
lies in the future, not in the past.

True what you say. It's all relative. The tragedy has many faces, and I am sure the biggest is not the fate of some millioners living a safe and secure life. When the affects of corona virus are someday counted, I am sure all these legends of the past are not very high in the list.

However, since all is relative, these people do count too. And I think the reason why we all are here in this site gathered together, has very much to do with these people and the culture they represent. I think it is very sad if all that need to end like this.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-12 12:49 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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TheflyingDutchman

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Doxa



It is actually sad to think that the corona crisis might end one big cultural era. Not only the touring days of the Stones but all those of other greats from their generation and of classical era of rock who are still here and have toured a lot in recent years: Dylan, Macca, Young, etc. We don't know when the things are back in 'normal' - are we talking about years - and these dudes aren't getting any younger. These legends have lived through so many phases and obstacles, and now this bloody virus is putting a stop on all this. Surely they - or some of them - will perform in some way or other in future, but be it again travelling the world and so on like we used to. I especially feel sad if Dylan's 'never-ending tour' stops like this.. For him it seems to be a way of life...

- Doxa

The Virus or vaccin is not the only problem . It's almost 100% sure already that there will be no pinkpop 2021 for the simple reason that all the big acts want to get payed in advance, but no insurance company will cover the bill.Vaccin,Virus or not. Don't worry about Dylan, the Stones or Young or Macca, they will write a song about it. I feel sorry for the less privileged bands and musicians that can hardly survive or still have to establish their name, the smaller clubs and theaters.The real cultural damage
lies in the future, not in the past.

True what you say. It's all relative. The tragedy has many faces, and I am sure the biggest is not the fate of some millioners living a safe and secure life. When the affects of corona virus are someday counted, I am sure all these legends of the past are not very high in the list.

However, since all is relative, these people do count too. And I think the reason why we all are here in this site gathered together, has very much to do with these people and the culture they represent. I think it is very sad if all that need to end like this.

- Doxa

I got I bit too emotional last night. I know quite a few musicians that go hit very hard by this crises. I don't want to give the impression that the bigger acts are of no more importance anymore, that would be ridiculous. Sorry for that.

What's really going on in the world of Covid-19???
I saw a EuroNews report on the situation in Equador, South America. Absolutely shocking. There hardly seems to be medical support, very view hospitals. The official reports say that up to now a couple houndred people died, but locally people report that this is impossible. It is assumed that in truth more than 12.000 people have already died from Covid-19. Unbelievable human drama's !
I wonder how the situation is in other comparable countries over there.
Sad, sad, sad.

True, georgie48. It has been such a rich country tragedy by now, but the virus knows no boundaries, and we live in a global world. The hugest human catastrophe may lie somewhere else than in the places that make the headlines and have the best equipment in hand (to test and everything). I mean, the world's richest countries are suffering with it, but think about how that will affect to countries that are not ready to handle it almost at all (in terms of treatment, hospitals, social security, everything). It could be that we don't know a shit what really is going on, and probably never will.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-12 13:39 by Doxa.

As States Rush to Reopen, Scientists Fear a Coronavirus Comeback
Officials are under pressure to restart the economy, but many states are moving too quickly, researchers say. The costs may be measured in lost lives

Millions of working people and small-business owners who cannot earn money while sheltering at home are facing economic ruin. So dozens of states, seeking to ease the pain, are coming out of lockdown.

Most have not met even minimal criteria for doing so safely, and some are reopening even as coronavirus cases rise, inviting disaster. The much-feared “second wave” of infection may not wait until fall, many scientists say, and instead may become a storm of wavelets breaking unpredictably across the country.

The reopenings will proceed nonetheless. The question now, scientists say, is whether the nation can minimize the damage by intelligently adopting new tactics.

Evidence is mounting that masks — if worn in public places, by everyone — are far more effective at stopping transmission than was previously realized. Across the nation, testing remains wholly inadequate, but home-use nasal swabs and saliva tests are on the way that may provide a clearer picture of where the virus is."

Americans are lining up for antibody tests that may reveal who has some immunity, perhaps opening paths back to normal life for them. Early (but still controversial) surveys suggest that more Americans may carry antibodies than initially thought.
[www.nytimes.com]

I am wearing a mask every time I go out to stores and finding myself getting more and more annoyed at those who don't. (btw, my Stones tongue-masks get a LOT of compliments )
Masks are required at several places here in Washington now- Costco, and the Metro in Seattle etc) but should be required every public place here imo.

I find that most of the people who don't wear a mask at stores here etc are men, usually around my age give or take. I assume it's a combination of vanity and bravado, but more and more, I find myself giving them dirty looks and sometimes muttering "wear a gd mask" half under my breath. If someone moves too close to me not wearing one, I immediately move away quickly, letting them know I want no part of interacting with them. Realize every place isn't the hotspot that Washington is and perhaps not necessary, but wearing masks here definitely is.

Why cloth masks should be required in public to help contain COVID-19, save lives, and restore jobs

~88% of the world lives in countries where the government and leading disease experts both agree that masks are effective at reducing the spread of COVID-19.
But many countries (like the U.S.) still don’t have widespread mask usage.


[masks4all.co]

I am wearing a mask every time I go out to stores and finding myself getting more and more annoyed at those who don't.

The folks that don't take precautions are going to pay. I've read what this virus can do to a person. It will attack you in many ways - Survivors are saying it was their worse experience ever. People need to realize that is not just the flu.

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Green Lady

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CaptainCorella

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stickyfingers101


have a hamper outside your house for her to change out of her clothes immediately BEFORE entering your home.....clothes straight to the machine....she goes straight to the shower. Anti-Bacterial soap no matter what.

(Genuine question)

Does anti-bacterial soap have any effect on a virus?

Soap destroys it, whether the soap is antibacterial or not is irrelevant (at least where the virus is concerned: it may save you from bacterial diseases of course).

^^^ What she said.

I always assumed anti-bacterial worked better, but I guess it doesn't make much difference w/ viruses....learn somethin' new every day.

But, hey...why not kill dem bacteria's too!

[www.marketwatch.com]

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bv

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Stoneage

Ps. BV, which are your sources for the COVID-19 being airborne? The WHO and the Swedish People's Health Authority says it's not. They say it spreads through droplets. Which is not the same as being airborne. Ds

I know you keep stating the virus is not airborne. That is why I posted the following on the very end of page 142 of this thread:

The corona virus is airborne

I listed seven - 7 - links and two - 2 - graphs. If the virus is NOT AT ALL airborne, then how come the persons C1 and C2 below, sitting some 3m i.e. 10 feet away from the only sick person A1, both get sick?

The droplets travel in air. May be they don't stay in the air for hours, and may be they don't travel through rooms, but they do not fall to the ground like larger drops.

There might be an academic discussion of how long and how far a virus may travel before you define it as being airborne. Forget about that discussion. Fact is if you work in an office, or sit in a restaurant, closer than 2-3 m from a person with covid-19, for more than 15 minutes, you may get the covid-19 disease. That is the tracing and quarantine norm in Norway, used in the Norwegian "Smittestopp" corona virus tracking app, and used by the tracing team, and that is why they talk about a minimum of 2m apart, even 3m would be better, indoor.

Airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2: The world should face the reality ( ScienceDirect, Volume 139, June 2020)



New York Times: A diagram of the arrangement of a restaurant’s tables and air conditioning airflow at site of an outbreak of coronavirus in Guangzhou, China. Red circles indicate the seating of future case-patients; the yellow-filled red circle indicates the index case, or first-documented, patient. Credit: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

I think this discussion is splitting-hairs (that might be an "American" phrase...means the disagreement is over very small details).....

Does it really matter how we define it?

Some facts are quite clear: Funk coming from sneezes, coughs, spitting, heavy-breathing (usually associated w/ exercise) CAN and DOES travel via air....

the same droplet-funk can also happen/spread from simply speaking ("s" sound and "sh" sound are particularly bad....and anybody who went to Middle School in America probably remembers "say it, don't spray it" as a phrase to bag on somebody who sent spittle flying while talking)

Point is: For the time-being, people should simply wear masks when out in public.

It's the law in my state now, but I see tons of people not obeying...cops need to be enforcing this w/ citations....public health + easy money.

Wash ya hands! Wear ya mask!

I don't really care if the corona virus transmission is called airborne or not, scientifically. What I do care about, is the fact that the virus do travel 2-4 meters i.e. 6-12 ft indoor, if you work in an office, or if you sit on a tube, bus, restaurant or other places. Within 10-20 minutes, you will get the virus, if there is a covid-19 sick person near you. You are not safe with just 1m/3ft distance.

Bjornulf

BV

The prime vector is airborn droplets indoors. Especially confined indoor spaces with poor ventilation that you must spend hours in. This covers many offices, factories, homes, movie theaters, sports arenas. I think surface transmission is exaggerated. You will not get Covid by touching items in a store.

Covid has a very very poor chance of infecting you outdoors. Even at a crowded park or beach. The enemies of Covid transmission are sunlight, breeze and micro-breezes

BTW I read that Wuhan had a very overcast January, when Covid really spread.
Vitamin D is a Covid enemy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-05-12 16:46 by triceratops.

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stickyfingers101

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Green Lady

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CaptainCorella

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stickyfingers101


have a hamper outside your house for her to change out of her clothes immediately BEFORE entering your home.....clothes straight to the machine....she goes straight to the shower. Anti-Bacterial soap no matter what.

(Genuine question)

Does anti-bacterial soap have any effect on a virus?

Soap destroys it, whether the soap is antibacterial or not is irrelevant (at least where the virus is concerned: it may save you from bacterial diseases of course).

^^^ What she said.

I always assumed anti-bacterial worked better, but I guess it doesn't make much difference w/ viruses....learn somethin' new every day.

But, hey...why not kill dem bacteria's too!

[www.marketwatch.com]

Simple but striking experiment: Put some water into a soup bowl or similar dish. Sprinkle some ground pepper over the surface of the water and mix it in a bit. Dip dirty/unwashed finger right into the water and observe the result. Then either wash the finger or just put soap onto it and put the clean/washed finger into the water again and see what happens. Tah-dah!

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triceratops
BV

The prime vector is airborn droplets indoors. Especially confined indoor spaces with poor ventilation. This covers many offices, factories, homes, movie theaters, sports arenas. I think surface transmission is exaggerated. You will not get Covid by touching items in a store.

Covid has a very very poor chance of infecting you outdoors. Even at a crowded park or beach. The enemies of Covid transmission are sunlight, breeze and micro-breezes

BTW I read that Wuhan had a very overcast January, when Covid really spread.
Vitamin D is a Covid enemy.

That's correct. Unless you touch your mouth or your eyes, that is. And most of us can't avoid doing that.

Most area companies in South Florida are performing temperature checks on employees entering work. Shouldn't employees have temperature taken leaving work as well?

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stonesstein

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Elmo Lewis
Like most things in life, use some common sense and you should be safe.

Nothing is ever guaranteed. Don't be STUPID!

I'm with Elmo, here, but I would add - BE NICE TO ONE ANOTHER and stop politicizing the f@#&ing virus!

Agree 100% with your points.

"No Anchovies, Please"

Never a big fan of buffets, but now I doubt I will ever eat from one again, even post virus.

Alarming video shows just how quickly coronavirus could spread around a restaurant

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DandelionPowderman

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triceratops
BV

The prime vector is airborn droplets indoors. Especially confined indoor spaces with poor ventilation. This covers many offices, factories, homes, movie theaters, sports arenas. I think surface transmission is exaggerated. You will not get Covid by touching items in a store.

Covid has a very very poor chance of infecting you outdoors. Even at a crowded park or beach. The enemies of Covid transmission are sunlight, breeze and micro-breezes

BTW I read that Wuhan had a very overcast January, when Covid really spread.
Vitamin D is a Covid enemy.

That's correct. Unless you touch your mouth or your eyes, that is. And most of us can't avoid doing that.

I must disagree. Of course I refrain from touching my eyes and mouth when I am out and about. Just to be sure. But if I go into a number of stores and touch many items I am not going to pick up any Covid or it will be a bare minimum. Meaning not enough to harm me. Now if an infected shopper picked up an item and sneezed onto it...I can see Covid transmission there is high if I pick it up and start touching my eyes. But how many are sneezing onto items as they shop? Maybe breathing onto some...

We have seen scenes from Russia, Iran and other places, where they disinfect streets and stairs by spraying large amounts of virus killing liquid all over. Those who spray this liquid are in complete protection, looking like astronauts. Out health authorities here in Norway say that very little virus pass on from the ground to people. I hear this procedure is more to make people safe, not really needed. I would say it is scaring off people more than making people safe.

Bjornulf

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MisterDDDD
Never a big fan of buffets, but now I doubt I will ever eat from one again, even post virus.

Alarming video shows just how quickly coronavirus could spread around a restaurant

10 days ago Soup Plantation said it will not be re-opening up its 100 buffet restaurants in America. I have eaten at them. They are also called Sweet Tomatoes. So this looks like bankruptcy.

The spokesman said they cannot reopen because across the US the rules for opening up buffet restaurants will be much much stricter than for other restaurants. He was saying the buffet model is dead.

Norwegian newspaper Aftenposten have done studies on the early stage virus tracking here in Norway, early March, while we still traced each and every covid-19 case in order to quarantine people at risk. They found that nobody got infected from two named large events, where there was one covid-19 sick person present at each event, one in Oslo at the Opera, one in Stavanger at Stavanger Concert House.

The tracking also stated that most got infected by close contact with family, or over time during transportation, typically in a car. Just 14 people got infected in restaurants, bars and events.

As soon as we started the social distancing, the virus spread dropped dramatically. Distance 1-2 m and washing hands properly and often do matter most.

Operaen var nesten fullsatt. Blant publikum satt en koronasmittet. Smittesporingen viser hvordan viruset oppfører seg. (Aftenposten 11 May 2020)

(English: The Opera was almost packed. One person with the corona virus was in the crowd. This is how the virus behaved)



Image text: Dark red is the person with covid-19. Light red is the 28 nearby people contacted and tested. Nobody developed covid-19.

Bjornulf

He was saying the buffet model is dead.
<<<<?

I will miss the breakfast buffet when visiting Sweden. On the other hand, it will still be nice just to visit Sweden once air travel isn’t as onerous anymore.

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Chris Fountain
I am wearing a mask every time I go out to stores and finding myself getting more and more annoyed at those who don't.

The folks that don't take precautions are going to pay. I've read what this virus can do to a person. It will attack you in many ways - Survivors are saying it was their worse experience ever. People need to realize that is not just the flu.

This is the point I have been trying to make. Why won't people wear a mask? Selfishness, stupidity, following the lead of the President? What is it?

As someone who survived, trust me, it IS NOT THE FLU.

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triceratops
[I must disagree. Of course I refrain from touching my eyes and mouth when I am out and about. Just to be sure. But if I go into a number of stores and touch many items I am not going to pick up any Covid or it will be a bare minimum. Meaning not enough to harm me. Now if an infected shopper picked up an item and sneezed onto it...I can see Covid transmission there is high if I pick it up and start touching my eyes. But how many are sneezing onto items as they shop? Maybe breathing onto some...

If some IS SICK and they are shopping without a mask, the likelihood of sneezing is much higher. I also observed something at Walmart a few weeks ago where a 5 year old kid was running around, putting things in his mouth then putting them back on the shelf. His mother was not wearing a mask either.

Interesting article about herd immunity out of Johns Hopkins University. If you want to see the list of references, they are at the bottom of the article.

[coronavirus.jhu.edu]

Early Herd Immunity against COVID-19: A Dangerous Misconception
David Dowdy, Department of Epidemiology, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
Gypsyamber D’Souza, Department of Epidemiology, Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

We have listened with concern to voices erroneously suggesting that herd immunity may “soon slow the spread” of COVID-19. For example, Rush Limbaugh recently claimed that “herd immunity has occurred in California.” As infectious disease epidemiologists, we wish to state clearly that herd immunity against COVID-19 will not be achieved at a population level in 2020, barring a public health catastrophe.

Although more than 2.5 million confirmed cases of COVID-19 have been reported worldwide, studies suggest that (as of early April 2020) no more than 2-4% of any country’s population has been infected with SARS-CoV-2 (the coronavirus that causes COVID-19). Even in hotspots like New York City that have been hit hardest by the pandemic, initial studies suggest that perhaps 15-21% of people have been exposed so far. In getting to that level of exposure, more than 17,500 of the 8.4 million people in New York City (about 1 in every 500 New Yorkers) have died, with the overall death rate in the city suggesting deaths may be undercounted and mortality may be even higher.

Some have entertained the idea of “controlled voluntary infection,” akin to the “chickenpox parties” of the 1980s. However, COVID-19 is 100 times more lethal than the chickenpox. For example, on the Diamond Princess cruise ship, the mortality rate among those infected with SARS-CoV-2 was 1%. Someone who goes to a “coronavirus party” to get infected would not only be substantially increasing their own chance of dying in the next month, they would also be putting their families and friends at risk. COVID-19 is now the leading cause of death in the United States, killing almost 2,000 Americans every day. Chickenpox never killed more than 150 Americans in a year.

To reach herd immunity for COVID-19, likely 70% or more of the population would need to be immune. Without a vaccine, over 200 million Americans would have to get infected before we reach this threshold. Put another way, even if the current pace of the COVID-19 pandemic continues in the United States – with over 25,000 confirmed cases a day – it will be well into 2021 before we reach herd immunity. If current daily death rates continue, over half a million Americans would be dead from COVID-19 by that time.

As we discuss when and how to phase in re-opening, it is important to understand how vulnerable we remain. Increased testing will help us better understand the scope of infection, but it is clear this pandemic is still only beginning to unfold.

It is in fact, by definition, a form of influenza, i.e. a flu.

Here’s how Wikipedia defines influenza:

>>>>


Influenza, commonly known as "the flu", is an infectious disease caused by an influenza virus.[1] Symptoms can be mild to severe.[5] The most common symptoms include: high fever, runny nose, sore throat, muscle and joint pain, headache, coughing, and feeling tired.[1] These symptoms typically begin two days after exposure to the virus and most last less than a week.[1] The cough, however, may last for more than two weeks.[1] In children, there may be diarrhea and vomiting, but these are not common in adults.[6] Diarrhea and vomiting occur more commonly in gastroenteritis, which is an unrelated disease and sometimes inaccurately referred to as "stomach flu" or the "24-hour flu".[6] Complications of influenza may include viral pneumonia, secondary bacterial pneumonia, sinus infections, and worsening of previous health problems such as asthma or heart failure.[2][5]

<<<<

You are projecting your own experience on to the masses, saying none of us have experienced what you’ve been through. How dare you to tell me that the nearly fatal flu I experienced 5 years ago doesn’t compare? You have no idea what I went through, just as we have no idea what you went through. To disparage or refute what others have been through is patronizing.

This virus appears to affect people differently, for reasons the medical experts are still working out. It seems that the older you are and the more compromised your immune system is, the chances you will have a rougher go of it are exponentially greater. Those who have a poor diet, don’t exercise and engage in activities that weaken their immune system are in the crosshairs of this virus.

As has been pointed out, though, there have been reported cases of perfectly healthy people getting very ill, and in some cases dying. The logical response is to take precautions. Wear a mask when outdoors, wash your hands, limit physical proximity to others. Those who have severe risk factors should remain more isolated.

Statistics tell us that those who do not have high risk factors are able to more actively venture out as long as they take the necessary precautions not to infect themselves or others. The vastly greater amount of people who get this virus will develop no symptoms or have only mild symptoms. There are already several case studies (Wuhan, Italy, NYC) that bear this out. Of course, there is a risk that it could be worse, but that risk is greatly diminished if you are not already in a high risk group. Completely shutting down society from opening up as long as people are taking precautionary measures, is projecting the fears of the few onto the reality of the many, and is a fools game.

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daspyknows

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Chris Fountain
I am wearing a mask every time I go out to stores and finding myself getting more and more annoyed at those who don't.

The folks that don't take precautions are going to pay. I've read what this virus can do to a person. It will attack you in many ways - Survivors are saying it was their worse experience ever. People need to realize that is not just the flu.

This is the point I have been trying to make. Why won't people wear a mask? Selfishness, stupidity, following the lead of the President? What is it?

As someone who survived, trust me, it IS NOT THE FLU.

Damn! I'm glad you made it - your pragmatic approach to life and knowledge of sports is appreciated !!!