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bv
Delta Airlines added a $200 cost per month to employees without a vaccine, deducted from their pay check monthly. They say it cost on average $50,000 for the company if an employee get hospitalized with covid-19, so it makes sense. Also, it is probably a better solution than the United Airlines way, they fired non-vaccinated.
There is a lot of anger vs non-vaccinated, as it seems. Some are just selfish, others are afraid, some do not trust the authorities, no wonder, there have been quite a few not so good experiences from vaccine projects in history.
The non-vaccinated will get covid-19 one day, probably in a more worse version that for those who are vaccinated, so I don't see any reason why we should force anyone to vaccinate. We will all be immune during 2022 anyway. If they work in the health system, you may keep them away from elderly and weak people, but they should still be respected for whatever reason they have of not accepting the vaccine.
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bv
Delta Airlines added a $200 cost per month to employees without a vaccine, deducted from their pay check monthly. They say it cost on average $50,000 for the company if an employee get hospitalized with covid-19, so it makes sense. Also, it is probably a better solution than the United Airlines way, they fired non-vaccinated.
There is a lot of anger vs non-vaccinated, as it seems. Some are just selfish, others are afraid, some do not trust the authorities, no wonder, there have been quite a few not so good experiences from vaccine projects in history.
The non-vaccinated will get covid-19 one day, probably in a more worse version that for those who are vaccinated, so I don't see any reason why we should force anyone to vaccinate. We will all be immune during 2022 anyway. If they work in the health system, you may keep them away from elderly and weak people, but they should still be respected for whatever reason they have of not accepting the vaccine.
Been a long pandemic and a long thread.
Probably the first statement I've disagreed with you on (although I was more certain of mask wearing early on, in terms of Americans adapting)
Maybe elsewhere in the world where it's not as politicized, but there are literally anti-vaxxers not getting vaxxed to "own the libs" here.
Just had a state Senator die in my county who expressed that sentiment loudly.
It's a real thing.. They would rather see people die than our current POTUS or experts have success.
No respect from me for that faction. Ever.
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NashvilleBlues
Do those who act immorally deserve respect?
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NateQuote
NashvilleBlues
Do those who act immorally deserve respect?
That would depend on your moral compass.
Nate
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NashvilleBlues
No hate from me. I don’t treat them differently. They just get no respect from me. I appreciate your words about the tour and what you saw. Hope you liked Tennessee!
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NashvilleBlues
No hate from me. I don’t treat them differently. They just get no respect from me. I appreciate your words about the tour and what you saw. Hope you liked Tennessee!
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NashvilleBlues
No hate from me. I don’t treat them differently. They just get no respect from me. I appreciate your words about the tour and what you saw. Hope you liked Tennessee!
I do treat them differently – I avoid any contact with them because I don't want to catch COVID. And I do respect them in the same way I respect people driving drunk – in other words: not at all because I don't see their behavoir as an opinion but as a threat to others.
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Nate
Most people living in society inflict sickness and death on others by going about their daily lives.Ask yourself how many times you have walked somewhere instead of taking the car and polluting the air,how many times have you stopped yourself making a luxury purchase such as a concert ticket and sent the money to starving children in Africa,how many times have you stopped on the street on your way to a restaurant and said hello to a homeless person and gave them the money for a meal.
Most people care about unvaccinated people for the sole reason they are having a detrimental affect on their own lives not because they care about the greater good of humanity.People should be more honest about their reasons for wanting others to get vaccinated.
Nate
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Nate
Most people living in society inflict sickness and death on others by going about their daily lives.Ask yourself how many times you have walked somewhere instead of taking the car and polluting the air,how many times have you stopped yourself making a luxury purchase such as a concert ticket and sent the money to starving children in Africa,how many times have you stopped on the street on your way to a restaurant and said hello to a homeless person and gave them the money for a meal.
Most people care about unvaccinated people for the sole reason they are having a detrimental affect on their own lives not because they care about the greater good of humanity.People should be more honest about their reasons for wanting others to get vaccinated.
Nate
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terraplane
So does that same logic apply to overweight people who have a heart attack or smokers with lung cancer? They shouldn't receive treatment because they made their choice?
no - because obesity or drug addiction are not a free decision. Not being vaccinated, however, is not an addiction. It is more like refusing necessary medical treatment or refusing to take your prescribed medicine
Also, I didn't say that there are easy solutions to difficult problems. My point is just that making decisions is only a meaningful concept if it has consequences and responsibilities.
Also, the effect of COVid on the medical system, compared to the effects of of medical issues related to smoking, drinking, drugs, obesity or carelessness, is orders of magnitude different. None of those issues, individually or collectively, are filling hospitals, burning out crucial medical staff, or preventing treatment of other medical conditions. Context, please.
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bv
I spent three months on the tour in USA during Sep/Oct/Nov, on travel through the states the Stones visited. I had my mask on at all times in restaurants, bars, shows, hotels, flights, airports, buses, trams and so on. Everyone was respecting me for having my mask on, not one time I was asked or bugged for having my mask on. So I do believe in respect rather than hate.
Just one time during my three months in the cities across USA this year, I did see some 200 people walking a march protesting the vaccine. It was in St Paul on Saturday Oct 23, the day before the show in Minneapolis. They had signs about "Big Pharma" and all sorts of other theories. Not anything to worry about. Just let them mach and say their opinion. I respected them, they may say what they like, they will not change my opinion on taking vaccination. In general, I did not see much vaccine protests during my travel, mainly into big cities.
Then I do remember the religious guy on a street corner downtown Dallas, with signs and crosses, saying the vaccine was like the beast, a mark, it was like the devil. Most people who passed by him looked at him and smiled. I did not even bother to make a picture of him.
I may be naive, but I do believe most smart people in USA see that the vaccine is a smart thing to do. Even Donald Trump took the 3rd vaccine recently, as he said on TV, the booster, so what is the problem?
Pictures from St Paul MN Oct 23, 2021:
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Nate
Most people living in society inflict sickness and death on others by going about their daily lives.Ask yourself how many times you have walked somewhere instead of taking the car and polluting the air,how many times have you stopped yourself making a luxury purchase such as a concert ticket and sent the money to starving children in Africa,how many times have you stopped on the street on your way to a restaurant and said hello to a homeless person and gave them the money for a meal.
Most people care about unvaccinated people for the sole reason they are having a detrimental affect on their own lives not because they care about the greater good of humanity.People should be more honest about their reasons for wanting others to get vaccinated.
Nate
Honestly, it’s both for me. I care how it impacts me and humanity as a whole. The coin also has another side. Do most unvaxxed people care more about themselves or society?
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treaclefingers
I think it's more about them thinking, "I only care about myself and don't give a sh*t about anyone else".
And in this unusual time, it's even more about 'being right' than even caring about themselves.
Extremism is never a good thing.
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treaclefingers
I think it's more about them thinking, "I only care about myself and don't give a sh*t about anyone else".
And in this unusual time, it's even more about 'being right' than even caring about themselves.
Extremism is never a good thing.
Would you recommend vaccinating a minor when it won't prevent them getting infected nor infecting others? It may reduce the probabilities overall and even that requires repeated vaccinations over the course of a year. Even vaccinated, I could not feel safe around them, because they could still transmit.
I believe you would recommend vaccinating them for the overall good of society, but to me that is extreme. I give a sh*t about them and could only justify it for vulnerable kids. Long term effects of the vaccines are not known yet.
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CindyC
Sometorontogirl - thank you for post that article. That is a perspective that I haven't given much consideration to. I sympathize with that family in their frustration, and can only imagine how helpless they must have felt seeing their loved one getting sicker and sicker and it makes me really angry. It makes me have irrational thoughts such as refusing to give a hospital bed to an unvaxxed covid patient if there is not enough space. They made their choice, and took their chances, others should shouldn't suffer as a result.
So you are ok with refusing treatment to people who require it due to choices they made themselves?
Nate
Unfortunately, it appears to have come to that.
We are now in a situation with extremely limited resources. If people are being turned away, there should be protocols put in place where an unvaxxed person looking for treatment related to COVID should be lower on the list. Obviously there will need to be exceptions due to the reasoning for not getting vaccinated, but if it's completely due to personal preference, then yes I am ok with it.
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CindyC
Sometorontogirl - thank you for post that article. That is a perspective that I haven't given much consideration to. I sympathize with that family in their frustration, and can only imagine how helpless they must have felt seeing their loved one getting sicker and sicker and it makes me really angry. It makes me have irrational thoughts such as refusing to give a hospital bed to an unvaxxed covid patient if there is not enough space. They made their choice, and took their chances, others should shouldn't suffer as a result.
So you are ok with refusing treatment to people who require it due to choices they made themselves?
Nate
Unfortunately, it appears to have come to that.
We are now in a situation with extremely limited resources. If people are being turned away, there should be protocols put in place where an unvaxxed person looking for treatment related to COVID should be lower on the list. Obviously there will need to be exceptions due to the reasoning for not getting vaccinated, but if it's completely due to personal preference, then yes I am ok with it.
You haven't understood my question so let's put it another way for example you have an accident whilst taking part in some sport and your leg has to be amputated unless the doctor performs surgery imminently but as it was your choice to take part in the sport instead of staying at home and baking a cake you will be refused treatment and your leg will end up in the trash bin because someone else more deserving than you has taken priority.
I personally couldn't care less if these people live or die and if it was up to me I would give priority to someone with the body of Salma Hayek over someone with the sex appeal of a potato but fortunately for society such decisions aren't taken by people like me.
Nate
I think i was pretty clear when I wrote "If people are being turned away, there should be protocols put in place where an unvaxxed person looking for treatment related to COVID should be lower on the list. "
Meaning, I am referring only to people seeking COVID relief that were not vaccinated
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bv
Norway have a high level of vaccination because we do not force people to vaccinate. It is all up to yourself. I think we have something like 92% of all adults above 18 years old vaccinated, and 80% above age 12 and up. There have been talks about forcing vaccine, but every time that is talked about, by press or some populist politicians, then the health authorities do point at countries with low vaccination percentage, where a lot more force is being used, scaring people away.
If there are 30% or 40% of the people with no vaccination in an area, it must be due to lack or information or trust. We had that with immigrants from Africa, Asia and East Europe in Norway. By information and using mosques and local communities, also by telling them how many are in hospital and dead from covid-19 from their cultural groups in our country, they understand and do take vaccination at a higher degree now.
Vaccine has gotten into politics and religion some places. It is sad, but you can not force religious or fanatics people into vaccination, it will just lead to hate, segregation and lack of trust. Not the right way to build unity.