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NICOS

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Aquamarine

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I think Bjornulf’s article about 50-60 vaccinated people getting Covid at the party with 120 in attendance does make one question how well vaccines are preventing infection.

Nobody ever claimed Vaccines prevent infection!! Their purpose is to prevent you from becoming very sick or dying if you DO get infected!

Your correct speaking a few months ago ...but not when they start the vaccinations....at least in my country....I had a lot of friends family that showed there QR code proudly....so I'm protected against Covid

Agreed, bad roll out of the message. You are protected, but not necessarily COMPLETELY or does it make you immune. It's like getting into a car with a seatbelt, front airbag, side airbag. You have layers of protection, but could still die in a car accident.

But your MUCH better off than 'riding bareback' to mix metaphors. Had an unvaccinated high school friend die last week of COVID.

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NICOS

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Aquamarine

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I think Bjornulf’s article about 50-60 vaccinated people getting Covid at the party with 120 in attendance does make one question how well vaccines are preventing infection.

Nobody ever claimed Vaccines prevent infection!! Their purpose is to prevent you from becoming very sick or dying if you DO get infected!

Your correct speaking a few months ago ...but not when they start the vaccinations....at least in my country....I had a lot of friends family that showed there QR code proudly....so I'm protected against Covid

This is what the CDC said on their website in March 2021. Used the internet archive to pull it. It is easy to blame the media for not knowing the truth but its really a matter of knowing where to get the facts. In fact, at that point in time for the vaccine designed for the original variant they were. Effectiveness was in the high 90's. It declined with Delta which was a new variant. They have the ability to modify the vaccines which if necessary.


[web.archive.org]

We don’t know how long protection lasts for those who are vaccinated. What we do know is that COVID-19 has caused very serious illness and death for a lot of people. If you get COVID-19, you also risk giving it to loved ones who may get very sick. Getting a COVID-19 vaccine is a safer choice.

Experts are working to learn more about both natural immunity and vaccine-induced immunity. CDC will keep the public informed as new evidence becomes available.

Rules for visiting the UK have now been tightened back up again. Same rules apply to returning UK residents. Negative test within 48 hours of inbound travel for anyone over 12will be needed from 4am.on Tuesday.

[www.bbc.co.uk]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-05 02:45 by grzegorz67.

The new lateral flow test requirement is in addition to a mandatory PCR test that has to be done within 48 hours of arrival in the UK, with arriving passengers having to self-isolate until they get a negative PCR test result.

These new rules around testing for entry into the UK are easy to circumnavigate if you do some research.The day 2 PCR test doesn't have to be purchased if you enter a fake code on the passenger locator form.If returning from a red list country that requires 10 nights in a substandard hotel at a cost of £2200 can easily be avoided by purchasing a cheap onward ticket for departure within 24 hours of arrival claiming to be in transit and then simply return home

Nate

Well, those Day 2 or Day 4-7 tests after coming home are just pure harassment, especially in airway travel. This activism in unproven and unlogical measures is insane!

Out of Control.............

Belgian police fire water cannon at anti-lockdown protests

Two officers and four protesters hospitalised, and 20 people arrested, after clashes in Brussels

Covid19

Belgian police have fired water cannon and used teargas to disperse protesters opposed to compulsory health measures against the coronavirus pandemic. About 8,000 people marched through Brussels towards the headquarters of the EU, chanting “freedom” and letting off fireworks. The crowd was smaller than the 35,000 vaccine and lockdown sceptics who marched last month, and police were better prepared. Protesters were blocked from reaching the roundabout outside the EU headquarters by a barbed wire barricade and a line of riot officers. As two drones and a helicopter circled overhead, they threw fireworks and beer cans. Police responded with water cannon and teargas. As the crowd dispersed into smaller groups around the European quarter, there were more clashes and some set fire to barricades of rubbish. Police said two of their officers and four protesters had been hospitalised, and 20 people had been arrested.

Several European countries have seen demonstrations in recent weeks as governments respond to a surge in Covid cases with tighter restrictions. In Brussels, the organisers hoped to match the 21 November demo, in which police seemed caught off-guard and there were violent clashes. The demonstrators oppose compulsory health measures – such as masks, lockdowns and vaccine passes – and some share conspiracy theories. Banners on Sunday compared the stigmatisation of the non-vaccinated to the treatment of Jews forced to wear yellow stars in Nazi Germany. “Covid = Organised Genocide,” said one sign. “The QR code is a Swastika,” declared another, referring to the EU Covid-safe digital certificate. Off-duty firefighters in uniform marched at the head of the protest as it wound its way through the city, to demand the right to refuse vaccination.

The measures imposed to fight Covid in Belgium were decided by the country’s own national and regional governments, but the EU has also attracted the sceptics’ anger. On Wednesday, the European Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, said that in her view it was time to “think about mandatory vaccination”, a suggestion that was denounced by speakers at the protest. On Friday, the Belgian prime minister, Alexander de Croo, announced a series of measures to tighten sanitary rules, bringing school Christmas holidays forward and asking children aged six and over to wear masks. Belgium, with a population of 11 million, has recorded an average of more than 17,800 daily infections with Covid-19 over the past seven days, as well as 44 deaths. About 800 people with severe forms of the disease are in intensive care in hospitals across the country, leading to overcrowding and the postponement of treatment for many other conditions.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Covid-19 is out of control in Europe now. More and more regulations are coming every day. Tomorrow we will have a new set of rules in Norway, yet not announced, but they will be rigged for meeting a virus 3-6 times more contagious vs Delta.

Bjornulf

If it transpires that omicron is much less lethal but much more transmissible then surely the best approach is to drop all restrictions and let it rip through society.

Nate

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Nate
If it transpires that omicron is much less lethal but much more transmissible then surely the best approach is to drop all restrictions and let it rip through society.

Nate

I sure am glad you aren't making the public health decisions.

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daspyknows

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Nate
If it transpires that omicron is much less lethal but much more transmissible then surely the best approach is to drop all restrictions and let it rip through society.

Nate

I sure am glad you aren't making the public health decisions.

You would prefer that delta remains the dominant variant?

Nate

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Nate

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daspyknows

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Nate
If it transpires that omicron is much less lethal but much more transmissible then surely the best approach is to drop all restrictions and let it rip through society.

Nate

I sure am glad you aren't making the public health decisions.

You would prefer that delta remains the dominant variant?

Nate

I would prefer there isn't any dominant variant and Covid was rare, like the common cold or flu most of the year.

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daspyknows

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Nate

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daspyknows

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Nate
If it transpires that omicron is much less lethal but much more transmissible then surely the best approach is to drop all restrictions and let it rip through society.

Nate

I sure am glad you aren't making the public health decisions.

You would prefer that delta remains the dominant variant?

Nate

I would prefer there isn't any dominant variant and Covid was rare, like the common cold or flu most of the year.

The common cold or flu most of the year is no different than saying monsoon "season":

it's not "rare" if it is "common".

The ignorance in the mindset of a virus that is not human originated and letting "it rip through society", which I understand, is... it's not a human virus.

Just looked at all worldinfo stats/charts on Europe and Northern Africa.

Everywhere in Europe case numbers are exploding and higher than ever. North Africa countries have peaked but recently hit all time highs too.

Deaths are not nearly as bad as earlier but I did not dig up vax or hospitalization rates.

Reading all news I am not finding reasons nor even speculations on causes of these huge case spikes, only omicron concerns.

My viewpoint is from California so I can only read English language news.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-08 06:22 by tommyturbo76.

It's from all the people returning home from their US stones run.

Covid-19 patients at this hospital are dying 'at a rate we've never seen die before' -- and it's taking a toll on health care workers

"The problem is, it's not over yet. I don't know if people realize just how critical it still is," - Jim Dover, president and CEO of Sparrow Health System

Covid19

Nurse Katie Sefton never thought Covid-19 could get this bad -- and certainly not this late in the pandemic. "I was really hoping that we'd (all) get vaccinated and things would be back to normal," said Sefton, an assistant manager at Sparrow Hospital in Lansing, Michigan. But this week Michigan had more patients hospitalized for Covid-19 than ever before. Covid-19 hospitalizations jumped 88% in the past month, according to the Michigan Health & Hospital Association. "We have more patients than we've ever had at any point, and we're seeing more people die at a rate we've never seen die before," said Jim Dover, president and CEO of Sparrow Health System. "Since January, we've had about 289 deaths; 75% are unvaccinated people," Dover said. "And the very few (vaccinated people) who passed away all were more than 6 months out from their shot. So we've not had a single person who has had a booster shot die from Covid." Among the new Covid-19 victims, Sefton said she's noticed a disturbing trend. "We're seeing a lot of younger people. And I think that is a bit challenging," said Sefton, a 20-year nursing veteran. She recalls helping the family of a young adult say goodbye to their loved one. "It was an awful night," she said. "That was one of the days I went home and just cried."

'We haven't even peaked yet'

It's not just Michigan that is facing an arduous winter with Covid-19. Nationwide, Covid-19 hospitalizations have increased 40% compared to a month ago, according to data from the US Department of Health and Human Services. This is the first holiday season with the relentless spread of the Delta variant -- a strain far more contagious than those Americans faced last winter.
"We keep talking about how we haven't peaked yet," Sefton said. Health experts say the best protection against Delta is to get vaccinated and boosted. But as of Thursday, only about 64.3% of eligible Americans had been fully vaccinated, and less than a third of those eligible for boosters have gotten one. Sparrow Hospital nurse Danielle Williams said the vast majority of her Covid-19 patients are not vaccinated -- and had no idea they could get pummeled so hard by Covid-19. "Before they walked in the door, they had a normal life. They were healthy people. They were out celebrating Thanksgiving," Williams said. "And now they're here, with a mask on their face, teary eyed, staring at me, asking me if they're going to live or not."

'The next few weeks look hard'

Dover said he's saddened but not surprised that his state is getting walloped with Covid-19. "Michigan is not one of the highest vaccination states in the nation. So it continues to have variant after variant grow and expand across the state," he said. "The next few weeks look hard. We're over 100% capacity right now," Dover said. "Most hospitals and health systems in the state of Michigan have gone to code-red triage, which means they won't accept transfers. And as we go into the holidays, if the current growth rate that we're at today, we would expect to see 200 in-patient Covid patients by the end of the month -- on a daily basis." And that would mean "absolutely stretching us to the breaking point," Dover added. "We've already discontinued in-patient elective surgeries," he said. "In order to create capacity, we took our post-anesthesia recovery care unit and converted it into another critical care unit."

'There's a lot of frustration'

Nurse Leah Rasch is exhausted. She's worked with Covid-19 patients since the beginning of the pandemic and was stunned to see so many people still unvaccinated enter the Covid unit. "I did not think we'd be here. I truly thought that people would be vaccinated," the Sparrow Hospital nurse said. "I don't remember the last time we did not have a full Covid floor." The relentless onslaught of Covid-19 patients has impacted Rasch's own health. "There's a lot of frustration," she said. "The other day, I had my first panic attack ... I drove to work and I couldn't get out of the car." 'We need everybody to get vaccinated' Dover said many people have asked how they can support health care workers. "If you really want to support your staff, and you really want to support health care heroes, get vaccinated," he said. "It's not political We need everybody to get vaccinated." He's also urging even those who have previously had Covid-19 to get vaccinated, as some people can get reinfected. "My daughter's a good example. She had Covid twice before she was eligible for a vaccine," Dover said. "She still got a vaccine because we know that if you don't get the vaccine, just merely having contracted Covid is not enough to protect you from getting it again. And I know that from personal experience." And Dover said those who are unvaccinated shouldn't let down their guard. "The problem is, it's not over yet. I don't know if people realize just how critical it still is," he said. "But they do realize it when they come into the ER, and they have to wait three days for a bed. And at that point, they realize it."

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

^ I saw this article. Sad but true. On another forum where one anti-vaxxer guy started with boosters aren't necessary but then later on in the thread he changed his tune to vaccines don't work. A few weeks later his wife came down with it and in two weeks she was in the ICU. A week later she was in the morgue.

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daspyknows
^ I saw this article. Sad but true. On another forum where one anti-vaxxer guy started with boosters aren't necessary but then later on in the thread he changed his tune to vaccines don't work. A few weeks later his wife came down with it and in two weeks she was in the ICU. A week later she was in the morgue.

Reference? Not saying I don’t believe you. I’m 100000000% pro Vaccination. Just I think it’s best to illustrate the absolute need for vaccination with factual evidence versus the mere hearsay the antivax brigade spew out.

Honestly… what ARE the anti vaxxers on? I BET 100% of THEM have been vaccinated against polio etc by their RESPONSIBLE parents. They themselves espouse freedom of choice. I don’t want them to be free to spread this thing any more. They are honestly just silly selfish dropkicks.

Rod

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daspyknows
^ I saw this article. Sad but true. On another forum where one anti-vaxxer guy started with boosters aren't necessary but then later on in the thread he changed his tune to vaccines don't work. A few weeks later his wife came down with it and in two weeks she was in the ICU. A week later she was in the morgue.

It's sort of amazing that in 'antivaxx' circles the word doesn't get out, even among themselves.

You know, "Jim got COVID man, and died...wow...maybe we should get the vaccine??".

Like over time, how aren't "people dying around you" getting noticed? Even if you're only watching Fox news and reading FB posts, how is first hand info not coming into play, after so much time and death has passed?

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treaclefingers

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daspyknows
^ I saw this article. Sad but true. On another forum where one anti-vaxxer guy started with boosters aren't necessary but then later on in the thread he changed his tune to vaccines don't work. A few weeks later his wife came down with it and in two weeks she was in the ICU. A week later she was in the morgue.

It's sort of amazing that in 'antivaxx' circles the word doesn't get out, even among themselves.

You know, "Jim got COVID man, and died...wow...maybe we should get the vaccine??".

Like over time, how aren't "people dying around you" getting noticed? Even if you're only watching Fox news and reading FB posts, how is first hand info not coming into play, after so much time and death has passed?

They are deaf dumb and stupid. And can’t admit it.

Rod

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bitusa2012

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treaclefingers

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daspyknows
^ I saw this article. Sad but true. On another forum where one anti-vaxxer guy started with boosters aren't necessary but then later on in the thread he changed his tune to vaccines don't work. A few weeks later his wife came down with it and in two weeks she was in the ICU. A week later she was in the morgue.

It's sort of amazing that in 'antivaxx' circles the word doesn't get out, even among themselves.

You know, "Jim got COVID man, and died...wow...maybe we should get the vaccine??".

Like over time, how aren't "people dying around you" getting noticed? Even if you're only watching Fox news and reading FB posts, how is first hand info not coming into play, after so much time and death has passed?

They are deaf dumb and stupid. And can’t admit it.

Yeah, I just don't understand how seeing it first hand, like your friend died, or your mom, or whatever...how doesn't that info circulate wider? They're just not willing to admit they've been hoodwinked?

So sad. I know several people with this attitude and a childhood friend that just died. It's just very hard to get your mind around the denial.

The large Omicron case in Norway will be published as a scientific case study.

Two persons arrived from South Africa. Both tested negative using a quick test a.k.a. antigen test. Then they went to their company Christmas Table, a party at the restaurant Louise. Later on there was proved that one of the two tests were a false negative, the other one was a correct negative. I.e. one person going to the party was infected with Omicron.

So one person with Omicron virus went to his company Christmas Party with 111 employees, trusting a false negative test. As many as 80 people i.e. 73% got infected that evening. Also as many as 50 other guests at the same restaurant got infected too, same evening. Everyone was fully vaccinated, still 130 people in that room got covid-19 with the omicron variant. The restaurant is stating that none of their waiters and employees got covid-19, which is even more interesting.

Omicron is indeed highly contagious, probably 3-6 times more contagious vs Delta, and also probably transmitting through air.

Håper Louise-utbruddet kan gi avgjørende omikron-svar for hele verden (NRK)

(English: The Christmas Party at Louise will provide crucial omicron answers for the whole world)

Bjornulf

That will be an interesting case study Bjornulf. Do they know yet whether this is the Omicron variant, or how serious the symptoms are? There is much discussion about whether the Omicron variant produces milder or stronger symptoms, but no reliable information has surfaced yet.

In Toronto, the president of the Raptors NBA team has tested positive…he is fully vaxed AND has had his booster dose.

[www.thestar.com]

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bitusa2012

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daspyknows
^ I saw this article. Sad but true. On another forum where one anti-vaxxer guy started with boosters aren't necessary but then later on in the thread he changed his tune to vaccines don't work. A few weeks later his wife came down with it and in two weeks she was in the ICU. A week later she was in the morgue.

Reference? Not saying I don’t believe you. I’m 100000000% pro Vaccination. Just I think it’s best to illustrate the absolute need for vaccination with factual evidence versus the mere hearsay the antivax brigade spew out.

Honestly… what ARE the anti vaxxers on? I BET 100% of THEM have been vaccinated against polio etc by their RESPONSIBLE parents. They themselves espouse freedom of choice. I don’t want them to be free to spread this thing any more. They are honestly just silly selfish dropkicks.

So I need to provide the death certificate?

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SomeTorontoGirl
That will be an interesting case study Bjornulf. Do they know yet whether this is the Omicron variant, or how serious the symptoms are? There is much discussion about whether the Omicron variant produces milder or stronger symptoms, but no reliable information has surfaced yet.

In Toronto, the president of the Raptors NBA team has tested positive…he is fully vaxed AND has had his booster dose.

[www.thestar.com]

They are still working on full identification of the omicron variant among all the Christmas Party attendances, but they do believe all of them are omicron.

The employees of the company are all in the age range 30-50, i.e. relatively young, and none of them have serious illness due to covid-19.

There are several tests indicating omicron will not be stopped by two vaccine doses, not even three, but you will be protected from serious illness, and the 3rd booster dose is your best protection from serious illness.

Bjornulf

Three months ago I was in Boston USA. People near me - closer than 3-6 ft - were all wearing masks, during shopping, in the hotels, in restaurants, in the band and the crew, most people in USA were smart and covid aware.

Back home in Norway, we had quit wearing masks late summer. On Sept 24 our government declared covid-19 over in Norway. We had 500 covid-19 cases per day, in a population of 5 million people, scaled to 30,000 if we had the population of USA. At that time USA had 110,000 cases per day. Now, 2.5 months later, Norway do have 10x cases vs Sept 24, a lot more people in hospital, mainly non-vaccinated, and elderly, and last week the mask mandate was back, and bars/restaurants have to close at midnight. There are talks about closing schools early, ahead of Christmas.

For sure the pandemic is not over yet.

Bjornulf

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daspyknows

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bitusa2012

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daspyknows
^ I saw this article. Sad but true. On another forum where one anti-vaxxer guy started with boosters aren't necessary but then later on in the thread he changed his tune to vaccines don't work. A few weeks later his wife came down with it and in two weeks she was in the ICU. A week later she was in the morgue.

Reference? Not saying I don’t believe you. I’m 100000000% pro Vaccination. Just I think it’s best to illustrate the absolute need for vaccination with factual evidence versus the mere hearsay the antivax brigade spew out.

Honestly… what ARE the anti vaxxers on? I BET 100% of THEM have been vaccinated against polio etc by their RESPONSIBLE parents. They themselves espouse freedom of choice. I don’t want them to be free to spread this thing any more. They are honestly just silly selfish dropkicks.

So I need to provide the death certificate?

No. But a link to what you read would be nice. Otherwise really it’s the same as me saying “I’ve read there is actually no proof the vaccines work “.

Rod

First people in UK hospitals with Omicron variant (BBC)
Indeed, it's not over yet.
Maybe the situation will get better till summer.
And next year we need a 4th vaccinaton.

THE AGE ---- 13 December 2021



ROCKMAN

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MAF
First people in UK hospitals with Omicron variant (BBC)
Indeed, it's not over yet.
Maybe the situation will get better till summer.
And next year we need a 4th vaccinaton.

Yes but the article does not state how many people are in hospital or how severe or indeed mild there illness is.If the blonde buffoon starts shutting down businesses again there will be riots on the streets.

Nate