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Green Lady
All the news sources seem obsessed with how transmissible new mutations are, but not whether (once you have caught it) it's any more dangerous than all the rest.

Right now they - research - do see there is a dramatic increase in number of cases related to this new variant. Also, they know there are many changes in it, so it may be a problem. It takes a few weeks until the number of seriously ill and deaths get significant in details, that is why they can not report such numbers yet.

Bjornulf

What`s the use of vaccination when new mutations pop up?

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Green Lady
All the news sources seem obsessed with how transmissible new mutations are, but not whether (once you have caught it) it's any more dangerous than all the rest.

Fair point.

Even if it's 'as dangerous' clearly that would be a problem.

Hopefully it's significantly less dangerous and this version takes over and we were looking at something more like the flu.

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noughties
What`s the use of vaccination when new mutations pop up?

The vaccination will still work. May be not 100% but better with 70% protection and flu like mild illness than fatal outcome because you did not care about vaccination.

The more people in the world are vaccinated, the less variants will be around. So just get vaccinated, and also support any works for getting Africa and the rest of the world vaccinated.

New Virus Variant Stokes Concern but Vaccines Still Likely to Work (New York Times)

The Omicron variant carries worrisome mutations that may let it evade antibodies, scientists said. But it will take more research to know how it fares against vaccinated people.

Bjornulf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-27 18:26 by bv.

-Thanks.

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noughties
What`s the use of vaccination when new mutations pop up?

Same reason one gets the flu vaccine. Mutations and variants occur because of higher concentrations of the virus so if the goal is to reduce variants then there needs to be suppression of he virus. What's the best way to do that? VACCINES.

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noughties
What`s the use of vaccination when new mutations pop up?

Dutch virologist Professor Marion Koopmans said it's likely easier

to produce a vaccin fast if necessary because the new virus is a mutant.

Much talk about Omikron here. Apparently scientists are very worried about this one. First cases in Europe already.

Omicron Covid-19 variant could already be in U.S., Fauci says

"We have not detected it yet, but when you have a virus that is showing this degree of transmissibility," it will "go essentially all over,” Biden's chief medical advisor said.

Omicron

It is possible that omicron, a new Covid-19 variant first detected in South Africa, could already be in the United States, according to Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. While there are no confirmed cases of the new variant in the states, Fauci said he "would not be surprised" if omicron already made its way to the U.S. "We have not detected it yet, but when you have a virus that is showing this degree of transmissibility and you're already having travel-related cases that they've been noted in Israel and Belgium and in other places, when you have a virus like this, it almost invariably, is ultimately going to go essentially all over,” Fauci told Weekend TODAY Saturday.

The new variant is concerning because it "has a large number of mutations" that potentially makes this virus more contagious than other variants and more transmissible, according to Fauci. "We don't know that yet but we're going to assume that's the case" he said, adding that the large number of mutations also suggest that the new variant "could evade the protection" of coronavirus treatments such as monoclonal antibodies and convalescent plasma as well as the Covid-19 vaccines. "These are all maybes but the suggestion is enough," Fauci said. "This is something we got to pay really close attention to and be prepared for something that's serious. It may not turn out that way, but you really want to be ahead of it. Two cases of the variant have been identified in the U.K., Health Minister Sajid Javid said Saturday. He added that the people involved were linked to each other and to travel to southern Africa, where omicron was first detected earlier this week.

As public health experts try to find concrete answers to questions around whether the omicron variant causes more severe illness and if it can evade protection from vaccines and treatments, President Joe Biden announced new travel restrictions on Friday. Restrictions for travelers from South Africa, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Lesotho, Eswatini, Mozambique, and Malawi are set to begin Monday. Travel restrictions are only helpful to gives the U.S. more time to better assess the situation and respond accordingly, it won't stop the spread of the new variant, Fauci said. Fauci, who also serves as Biden's chief medical advisor, doubled down on how it is "absolutely essential that unvaccinated people get vaccinated and that vaccinated people get boosters" and wear masks during indoor congregations.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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TheflyingDutchman

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noughties
What`s the use of vaccination when new mutations pop up?

Dutch virologist Professor Marion Koopmans said it's likely easier

to produce a vaccin fast if necessary because the new virus is a mutant.

That's right. In England (at least) they are already working on an update and the scientists here reckon they'll have it ready in 100 days.

Also, the flu jab is constantly being upgraded every year to take into accounts mutations of flu.

So now the authorities here in the UK introduce a new rule that everyone entering the UK must take a pcr test and self isolate until they receive a negative result which could potentially take days for the results to be returned.

It is not possible to board a flight back to the UK without showing proof of a pcr booking for when you arrive back in the UK but personally I wouldn't take the test after arriving back unless I felt unwell or had been in contact with a confirmed case of covid and there is not a hope in hell that I would be self isolating unless I had covid.

Nate

The new variant Omicron has arrived in Belgium, England, Germany, Netherlands, Italy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-27 21:25 by MAF.

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MAF
The new variant Omicron has arrived in Belgium, England, Germany, Netherlands, Italy.

Actually the hosts have arrived.

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SomeTorontoGirl

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Green Lady
All the news sources seem obsessed with how transmissible new mutations are, but not whether (once you have caught it) it's any more dangerous than all the rest.

With relatively few cases so far, it may be early days yet to reach a conclusion. Fingers crossed that it isn’t as bad as early warnings suggest - we don’t need a new surge, and we DO need Stones-related festivities in London next year.

Fair point: we know how transmissible it is weeks before we know how dangerous, so best not to take chances.

So face masks are being made mandatory in some settings from Tuesday here in the UK including in the buildings of the House of Commons unless you are an MP in which case you are exempt hahahahahaha I only wish there were a hell for these people to go to.

Nate

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noughties
What`s the use of vaccination when new mutations pop up?

Really?

Rod

As omicron variant is detected around the world, travel bans may be too late, experts say

Rachel Pannett, Dan Diamond, María Luisa Paúl and Jennifer Hassan,
The Washington Post

[www.sfgate.com]

As governments scrambled to close their borders to southern African countries as a shield against a potentially dangerous new coronavirus variant, experts warned the travel bans may be too late - with confirmed and suspected cases cropping up as far away as Asia and Australia.

The variant, dubbed omicron, has a high number of mutations that could make it more easily transmissible. It was identified by scientists in South Africa, where early data suggest it is spreading more quickly than the now-dominant variant known as delta. Several countries, including the United States, have curbed flights from the region while epidemiologists work to identify how far the variant may have spread.

"By the time we have enough information to institute a travel ban, the cat's already out of the bag, so to speak," Nicole A. Errett, a professor at the University of Washington who has done research on public health emergency preparedness, said in an email. "Omicron has already been detected in other continents. A travel ban could in theory buy some time by reducing the spread of new seed cases, but we are talking on the order of days to weeks," she added.

Confirmed and suspected covid-19 cases caused by the new variant have been detected in a growing number of regions, including Britain, Belgium, Botswana, Germany, Italy, Hong Kong, Israel and the Czech Republic. Most of the cases outside Africa appear to involve people who had traveled to the continent.

Austria also joined the growing list of countries where the variant has been reported, detecting its first suspected case of the new variant in the Tirol region, Reuters reported Sunday, citing Austrian officials.

Authorities said in a statement that a traveler who returned from South Africa last week had tested positive for the coronavirus with indications of the new variant, though further sequencing will take place over the next few days to confirm the variant.

Earlier this month Austria became the first country in Europe to say it will mandate the coronavirus vaccine for everyone eligible and ordered a fourth national lockdown.

Two planes carrying some 600 passengers from South Africa landed in the Netherlands with 61 people infected with the coronavirus - including some cases believed to be the new omicron variant - Dutch health authorities said Saturday.

Health officials in Australia on Sunday confirmed two fully vaccinated, asymptomatic passengers on a flight into Sydney tested positive for the new coronavirus variant and are now in government isolation. They were among 14 people from southern Africa who arrived Saturday evening on a flight from Doha, Qatar, officials said. All 260 people aboard the plane are considered close contacts and have been ordered to self-quarantine. Canberra announced a two-week travel ban on nine southern African countries.

"This clearly demonstrates the pandemic is not over," Dominic Perrottet, the premier of New South Wales state, home to Sydney, told reporters on Sunday. "There are limits to what the state and federal government can do: These variants will get into the country. It is inevitable."

The emergence of a new and potentially more menacing variant raises questions about what lessons officials have learned in the past two years, and whether they're prepared for worrisome mutations that could evade current vaccines.

In Britain, the former head of the government's vaccine task force accused leaders of ignoring a plan to prepare for the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants. Clive Dix, who chaired the vaccine task force until April, told the Guardian's Observer that he wrote a "very specific proposal on what we should put in place right now for the emergence of any new virus that escaped the vaccine," adding: "I haven't seen a sign of any of those activities yet."

On Sunday, Britain's health secretary Sajid Javid said vaccines may be less effective against Omicron, admitting "we just don't know enough" about the new variant to know for sure what the risk might be.

"There is reason to think that maybe, and I stress the word may, that this variant may turn out to make our vaccines less effective, it may not," he told Sky News on Sunday as the government announced new measures to slow transmission of the virus.

From Tuesday, face masks will be compulsory in shops and on public transport in England.

Europe is in the grips of an increasingly deadly outbreak of the fast-spreading delta variant that has prompted officials in some countries to revert to measures such as lockdowns used to control the virus in the early days of the pandemic.

Singapore, which has been easing border restrictions, is watching the new omicron variant "very closely" and may be forced to roll back some easing measures, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said in a speech Sunday, Bloomberg reported.

White House officials said that the world's failure to contain the rapid spread of delta this spring demonstrated the need to be vigilant in staving off omicron, which public health experts fear could sicken vaccinated people and spread more rapidly than delta.

In designating omicron a "variant of concern," the World Health Organization said Friday that preliminary evidence suggests an increased risk of reinfection with this variant for people who have previously had the virus, compared with other variants. However, there are also high rates of people living with HIV and AIDS in southern Africa, which experts said makes it harder to interpret the effectiveness of either vaccine-induced or natural immunity against infection.

U.S. officials said they quickly jumped into action after learning that the new variant contained long-feared mutations, such as the potential ability to evade vaccinations, and appeared to descend from a different genetic lineage than delta. Senior officials such as Fauci, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Rochelle Walensky and others began discussions with government scientists, South African officials and vaccine manufacturers that intensified on Thanksgiving Day.

President Joe Biden and White House officials this weekend also urged unvaccinated Americans to get inoculated and called on eligible adults to get booster shots, saying that the vaccines remain the best protection against the virus.

Only about 24 percent of South Africans are fully vaccinated, according to Johns Hopkins University data, compared with nearly 60 percent of Americans.

"Every time the virus reproduces inside someone, there's a chance of it mutating and a new variant emerging," said Vinod Balasubramaniam, a virologist at Monash University in Malaysia. "The main way to stop variants is equal global vaccination. The emergence of omicron reminds us of how important that goal remains."

The world's major manufacturers of coronavirus vaccines, including Pfizer and BioNTech, Johnson & Johnson, Moderna and Chinese vaccine maker Sinovac said they are working to investigate the new strain of the virus and adapt their shots if needed.

Experts cautioned that the flurry of activity to fight omicron may turn out to be largely unnecessary, as researchers learn in the coming days whether current vaccines can ward off the variant or successfully limit symptoms.

"Not all covid-19 variants cause trouble. For example, lambda and mu have not taken off globally. So it is possible that the new variant, omicron, could hopefully fizzle out," said Sanjaya Senanayake, an infectious diseases expert at the Australian National University.

- - -

The Washington Post's Joel Achenbach, Chico Harlan and Lesley Wroughton contributed to this article.

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Nate
So face masks are being made mandatory in some settings from Tuesday here in the UK including in the buildings of the House of Commons unless you are an MP in which case you are exempt hahahahahaha I only wish there were a hell for these people to go to.

Nate

And why Tuesday? If things were so desperate, wouldn’t they mandate it from the moment after the announcement? Does the public need a few days’ warning to get themselves readied for wearing a piece of cloth once more?? I’ll see what others around me are doing on public transport. I haven’t worn a covering in months.

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Big Al

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Nate
So face masks are being made mandatory in some settings from Tuesday here in the UK including in the buildings of the House of Commons unless you are an MP in which case you are exempt hahahahahaha I only wish there were a hell for these people to go to.

Nate

And why Tuesday? If things were so desperate, wouldn’t they mandate it from the moment after the announcement? Does the public need a few days’ warning to get themselves readied for wearing a piece of cloth once more?? I’ll see what others around me are doing on public transport. I haven’t worn a covering in months.

Yes I agree it is strange that these measures seem to take some time to be implemented after being announced maybe it has something to do with being written into law.
How these idiots expect people to comply when they give themselves exemptions is ludicrous and although most people probably will comply I would expect more people not to this time around as I think more and more people are growing increasingly tired of this nonsense now.

Nate

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Nate

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Big Al

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Nate
So face masks are being made mandatory in some settings from Tuesday here in the UK including in the buildings of the House of Commons unless you are an MP in which case you are exempt hahahahahaha I only wish there were a hell for these people to go to.

Nate

And why Tuesday? If things were so desperate, wouldn’t they mandate it from the moment after the announcement? Does the public need a few days’ warning to get themselves readied for wearing a piece of cloth once more?? I’ll see what others around me are doing on public transport. I haven’t worn a covering in months.

Yes I agree it is strange that these measures seem to take some time to be implemented after being announced maybe it has something to do with being written into law.
How these idiots expect people to comply when they give themselves exemptions is ludicrous and although most people probably will comply I would expect more people not to this time around as I think more and more people are growing increasingly tired of this nonsense now.

Nate

Maybe they want people to get the change to buy mask and shops can prepare with signs.........

__________________________

Good news?

S.African doctor says patients with Omicron variant have "very mild" symptoms
Reuters
PROMIT MUKHERJEE


[www.aol.com]

By Promit Mukherjee

JOHANNESBURG (Reuters) -A South African doctor who was one of the first to suspect a different coronavirus strain among patients said on Sunday that symptoms of the Omicron variant were so far mild and could be treated at home.

Dr. Angelique Coetzee, a private practitioner and chair of South African Medical Association, told Reuters that on Nov. 18 she noticed seven patients at her clinic who had symptoms different from the dominant Delta variant, albeit "very mild".

Now designated Omicron by the World Health Organization, the variant was detected and announced by South Africa's National Institute of Communicable Diseases (NICD) on Nov. 25 from samples taken from a laboratory from Nov. 14 to Nov. 16.

Coetzee said a patient on Nov. 18 reported at her clinic being "extremely fatigued" for two days with body aches and headache.

"Symptoms at that stage was very much related to normal viral infection. And because we haven't seen COVID-19 for the past eight to 10 weeks, we decided to test," she said, adding that the patient and his family turned out to be positive.

On the same day, more patients came in with similar symptoms, which was when she realised there was "something else going on." Since then, she's seen two to three patients a day.

"We have seen a lot of Delta patients during the third wave. And this doesn't fit in the clinical picture," she said, adding she alerted NICD on the same day with the clinical results.

"Most of them are seeing very, very mild symptoms and none of them so far have admitted patients to surgeries. We have been able to treat these patients conservatively at home," she said.

Coetzee, who is also on the Ministerial Advisory Committee on Vaccines, said unlike the Delta so far patients have not reported loss of smell or taste and there has been no major drop in oxygen levels with the new variant.

Her experience so far has been that the variant is affecting people who are 40 or younger. Almost half of the patients with Omicron symptoms that she treated were not vaccinated.

"The most predominant clinical complaint is severe fatigue for one or two days. With them, the headache and the body aches and pain."

The news of the new variant emerging from South Africa prompted a swift reaction from several countries, including Britain, which on Friday imposed a travel ban on several southern African countries with immediate effect, a decision South Africa has strongly contested.

Since Friday, many countries have also banned air travel to and from South Africa, including the United States, other European countries, and some Asian nations.

(Reporting by Promit Mukherjee; Editing by Angus MacSwan)

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Big Al

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Nate
So face masks are being made mandatory in some settings from Tuesday here in the UK including in the buildings of the House of Commons unless you are an MP in which case you are exempt hahahahahaha I only wish there were a hell for these people to go to.

Nate

And why Tuesday? If things were so desperate, wouldn’t they mandate it from the moment after the announcement? Does the public need a few days’ warning to get themselves readied for wearing a piece of cloth once more?? I’ll see what others around me are doing on public transport. I haven’t worn a covering in months.

You're talking about England rather than the UK. Face masks have remained mandatory in various settings in Scotland. I haven't been on a train or in a supermarket without a mask since March 2020 and don't expect that to change in a hurry.

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teleblaster


You're talking about England rather than the UK. Face masks have remained mandatory in various settings in Scotland. I haven't been on a train or in a supermarket without a mask since March 2020 and don't expect that to change in a hurry.

I understand that. There are still those here in England who willingly wear a covering in outlets and onboard public transport. If it makes you feel more comfortable, fair enough.

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noughties
What`s the use of vaccination when new mutations pop up?

The new variations come up because of individuals who have chosen to not be vaccinated. This fact is what causes the virus to continue to mutate.

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Nate
So now the authorities here in the UK introduce a new rule that everyone entering the UK must take a pcr test and self isolate until they receive a negative result which could potentially take days for the results to be returned.

It is not possible to board a flight back to the UK without showing proof of a pcr booking for when you arrive back in the UK but personally I wouldn't take the test after arriving back unless I felt unwell or had been in contact with a confirmed case of covid and there is not a hope in hell that I would be self isolating unless I had covid.

Nate

I flew back from the US to the UK last week, took the PCR test the day I got back and got the result the next day. Its fast, and this was a standard fee test. I'd rather test because I'd hate to have Covid with no symptoms and pass it to someone who ends up in hospital or worse.

I wore a mask in the US when needed and when close to people in confined spaces (like in elevators) and stayed Covid-free - even standing with no mask in the Pit. Vaccines work, not 100% but much better than 0%! This new variant might make them less effective, but still much better than 0%. I also tested myself in advance of meeting more vulnerable people.

I think this pandemic has reminded us that there are diseases in all places that are dangerous for some people, and whilst we might want to take a risk with our own lives, we need to consider the risk we might bring to other people.

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steffialicia

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noughties
What`s the use of vaccination when new mutations pop up?

The new variations come up because of individuals who have chosen to not be vaccinated. This fact is what causes the virus to continue to mutate.

Can new mutations not form in a vaccinated person then?

Nate

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thecitadel

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Nate
So now the authorities here in the UK introduce a new rule that everyone entering the UK must take a pcr test and self isolate until they receive a negative result which could potentially take days for the results to be returned.

It is not possible to board a flight back to the UK without showing proof of a pcr booking for when you arrive back in the UK but personally I wouldn't take the test after arriving back unless I felt unwell or had been in contact with a confirmed case of covid and there is not a hope in hell that I would be self isolating unless I had covid.

Nate

I flew back from the US to the UK last week, took the PCR test the day I got back and got the result the next day. Its fast, and this was a standard fee test. I'd rather test because I'd hate to have Covid with no symptoms and pass it to someone who ends up in hospital or worse.

I wore a mask in the US when needed and when close to people in confined spaces (like in elevators) and stayed Covid-free - even standing with no mask in the Pit. Vaccines work, not 100% but much better than 0%! This new variant might make them less effective, but still much better than 0%. I also tested myself in advance of meeting more vulnerable people.

I think this pandemic has reminded us that there are diseases in all places that are dangerous for some people, and whilst we might want to take a risk with our own lives, we need to consider the risk we might bring to other people.

I do not see the logic in taking a test just because I have returned from a different country I could just as easily contract covid in my hometown as anywhere in the world.The only time people should take a test is if they have symptoms of covid or have been in close contact with a confirmed case.Whilst governments continue with this stupid policy of making people test when crossing borders they can kiss goodbye to the vast majority of tourist income that they benefited from before covid.

Nate

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daspyknows
Good news?

S.African doctor says patients with Omicron variant have "very mild" symptoms
Reuters
PROMIT MUKHERJEE

Increased contagiousness combined with a (significantly) reduced severity could indeed be good news, if it means that a large number of people catch the infection without serious consequences and are subsequently immune - i.e. herd immunity can be reached more quickly without the relatively high mortality levels of the other variants.

Obviously, it's too early to tell at this stage, and that's still a fairly big if.

Also, it would still take a while for this to happen, during which the Delta variant would continue to wreak havoc (so it's not an excuse not to get vaccinated and take other precautions...).

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Nate

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steffialicia

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noughties
What`s the use of vaccination when new mutations pop up?

The new variations come up because of individuals who have chosen to not be vaccinated. This fact is what causes the virus to continue to mutate.

Can new mutations not form in a vaccinated person then?

Nate

Yeah, I don't follow this too much, but I am thinking this is NOT a fact: "This fact is what causes the virus to continue to mutate." Especially given the large # of vaccinated that get covid anyway (my son, as an example, has covid now).

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Nate

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steffialicia

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noughties
What`s the use of vaccination when new mutations pop up?

The new variations come up because of individuals who have chosen to not be vaccinated. This fact is what causes the virus to continue to mutate.

Can new mutations not form in a vaccinated person then?

Nate

New mutants typically show up in populations where the vaccination rate is low, i.e. among larger non-vaccinated populations.

People in poor countries do not "choose not to vaccinate". They do not have access to vaccine. And they can't just "work from home", like many do in rick countries.

Vaccinated people may get covid-19, sure they do, but those are not any big source of mutants. The virus die out soon, it does not play around for weeks mutating again and again.

Mutants typically happen in a unvaccinated populations with limited health systems where people are left on their own sick and they continue to be among other people so that the mutant may move on from the sick people into the rest of the world.

Population and vaccination rate:

USA - 330 million people - 60% fully vaccinated
Africa - 1300 million people - 7% fully vaccinated

Tracking Coronavirus Vaccinations Around the World (New York Times live data)

Less than 10% of African countries to hit key COVID-19 vaccination goal (WHO

Bjornulf