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Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 14, 2021 21:55

Quote
bleedingman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
bv
Denmark latest news today:

Denmark scraps AstraZeneca vaccine

The National Board of Health has chosen to completely drop the use of the controversial vaccine in Denmark. And the newly arrived vaccine from Johnson & Johnson is being put on hold until further notice.

Danmark skrotter AstraZeneca-vaccine
Sundhedsstyrelsen har valgt helt at droppe brugen af den omstridte vaccine i Danmark. Og den nyankomne vaccine fra Johnson&Johnson lægges på køl indtil videre.
(Politiken 14 April 2021)


That's a bit alarming regarding both AstraZeneca and the Johnson and Johnson vaccine.
Not sure I'd feel completely comfortable getting either considering the circumstances, and if those were the only choices,
I'd probably just continue with the standard safety measures that kept me safe for over a year including mask, social distance, etc.

There are alternatives to the vaccine. Ivermectin, for example.

Absolutely not. Getting covid-19, and then treating it with drinking bleach, Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, or other witch doctor tricks, undocumented stuff not working, is NOT an alternative to vaccine.

There are several safe and efficient vaccines currently approved, and more coming this year. Vaccine is the only way to stop the pandemic, unless you want millions of dead people and a broken health system as well as economy broken, due to the pandemic going out of control.

Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: April 14, 2021 22:01

Quote
TheGreek
Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
daspyknows
If they do this for a Stones tour it works for me.

[profootballtalk.nbcsports.com]

The Bills were able to have some fans in the building for their playoff home games in January and they are looking forward to having a lot more of them on hand this fall.

Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz said on Tuesday that he is supportive of plans to have the newly rechristened Highmark Stadium open at full capacity when the 2021 season gets underway in September. He noted that the plan is to limit admission to those who have been vaccinated for COVID-19.

“Our plan is that unless you are vaccinated, you will not have entry to the stadium. It is easy and safe,” Poloncarz said, via Sal Capaccio of WGR 550.

There was no mention of what that would mean for children under 16 as the vaccines in use are currently not approved for use for that group and there are plenty of other details about the plans for Bills games that need to come to light, but they likely won’t be the only team moving in this direction ahead of the 2021 season.

I find it incredible that there are people against such a thing, like airlines doing this. What the hell. It turns into Big Brother conspiracy garbage and on and on. Makes me think maybe those people shouldn't wear seatbelts, helmets or they should ignore road lanes, do not touch - electrocution and so on.

"You know how much this is?"
No. The price is on the container.

They look at the leaves. "I don't see it."
The price is on the container.
"What's that."

USE YOUR @#$%& EYES, MORON.
and brain

LOL now you've gone too far!

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: kovach ()
Date: April 14, 2021 22:17

Quote
daspyknows
I agree, but people get blood clots in rare cases on a normal basis. This SHOULD be researched fully but this plays into the anti-vaxxer crowd when the rate of blood clots is not statistically different from the general population. If a few people died of car crashes after getting vaccinated does the vaccine cause car crashes or are they are statistically irrelevant?

Yes several doctors have commented that the rate of these occurring due to birth control pills and even having covid are much higher than those who have gotten it and had the vaccine. In fact I think they said the rate in the general population was 3-5 per million which is greater than the 6 of 6.8M who have received the vaccine.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bleedingman ()
Date: April 14, 2021 23:35

Quote
bv
Quote
bleedingman
Quote
Hairball
Quote
bv
Denmark latest news today:

Denmark scraps AstraZeneca vaccine

The National Board of Health has chosen to completely drop the use of the controversial vaccine in Denmark. And the newly arrived vaccine from Johnson & Johnson is being put on hold until further notice.

Danmark skrotter AstraZeneca-vaccine
Sundhedsstyrelsen har valgt helt at droppe brugen af den omstridte vaccine i Danmark. Og den nyankomne vaccine fra Johnson&Johnson lægges på køl indtil videre.
(Politiken 14 April 2021)


That's a bit alarming regarding both AstraZeneca and the Johnson and Johnson vaccine.
Not sure I'd feel completely comfortable getting either considering the circumstances, and if those were the only choices,
I'd probably just continue with the standard safety measures that kept me safe for over a year including mask, social distance, etc.

There are alternatives to the vaccine. Ivermectin, for example.

Absolutely not. Getting covid-19, and then treating it with drinking bleach, Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, or other witch doctor tricks, undocumented stuff not working, is NOT an alternative to vaccine.

There are several safe and efficient vaccines currently approved, and more coming this year. Vaccine is the only way to stop the pandemic, unless you want millions of dead people and a broken health system as well as economy broken, due to the pandemic going out of control.

The vaccines are new, there were no animal trials, we are only at the beginning. If a Rolling Stones fan takes your advice and takes a vaccine and DIES, how will you feel? And please stop with the "drinking bleach" comparison whenever an alternative to the "vaccines" is suggested. You run a great site and I am profusely grateful for all you have done for us fans. But neither one of us is an expert and there is still plenty of uncertainty regarding this virus and the proposed treatments.

[pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

A five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: April 15, 2021 01:26


Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: April 15, 2021 02:19

Quote
bleedingman
A five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness

Key word there is MAY. Hydrochloroquine MAY work too. The J&J vaccine has been proven to be 100% effective in preventing severe illness, hospitalization and death. The vaccine MAY cause blood clots in .0001% of the cases which is about as likely as a person getting a blood clot not taking the vaccine and much lower than getting blood clots due to a Covid infection.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bleedingman ()
Date: April 15, 2021 03:14

Drugs.com is not a witch doctor website.

Can Ivermectin be used to treat COVID-19 (coronavirus)?



[www.drugs.com]

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: April 15, 2021 04:32

It kills the virus in a f'in test tube. It needs to be treated in animals and humans. So you posted one very small clinical trial with 72 people that didn't indicate it had been peered reviewed. You would take that rather than a vaccine that has been proven to work and has a 1 in a million adverse reaction?

From drugs.com

Ivermectin has been trialled in treating the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, which is the virus that causes COVID-19.
An in vitro trial has shown ivermectin reduces the number of cell-associated viral RNA by 99.8 % in 24 hours. An in vitro study is when they study cells in a laboratory and not in a living organism.
More studies are now needed to be done using ivermectin on people or animals to see how well ivermectin works against COVID-19. This is in vivo testing.
Ivermectin is currently a FDA approved medicine for treatment of intestinal worms, Strongyloides stercoralis and Onchocerca volvulus. It has been established as safe for human use.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: April 15, 2021 13:23

Quote
daspyknows
It kills the virus in a f'in test tube. It needs to be treated in animals and humans. So you posted one very small clinical trial with 72 people that didn't indicate it had been peered reviewed. You would take that rather than a vaccine that has been proven to work and has a 1 in a million adverse reaction?

From drugs.com

Ivermectin has been trialled in treating the coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, which is the virus that causes COVID-19.
An in vitro trial has shown ivermectin reduces the number of cell-associated viral RNA by 99.8 % in 24 hours. An in vitro study is when they study cells in a laboratory and not in a living organism.
More studies are now needed to be done using ivermectin on people or animals to see how well ivermectin works against COVID-19. This is in vivo testing.
Ivermectin is currently a FDA approved medicine for treatment of intestinal worms, Strongyloides stercoralis and Onchocerca volvulus. It has been established as safe for human use.
The darn shame of the J&J vaccine being shelved for the time being is that all the anti vaxxers are screaming "see it's not safe " to which I respond - if COVID-19 doesn't kill you it will diminish your quality of life severely . So I ask what is the lesser choice ?

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: April 15, 2021 13:41

I just can't wrap my head around all of the deniers that won't take the vaccine ? I mean for starters it is free . Next wouldn't you want to have peace of mind protection ? From a horrible and horrific plague ? That has afflicted the whole globe ? In the USA we are supposed to be the beacon of light and awareness and lead by example and we are going backwards in ignorance . A highly educated society rich in resources and treasure with a population turning there back on Doctors and scientists . Does this make sense ? I remember my Father telling me "use your head and think " Life has changed drastically from a year ago . I don't care about what we used to do with our leisure time , like travel and sporting events and concerts and such . To me it's all about maintaining ones quality of life at all costs ! I keep my home stocked with plenty of stuff to do and amuse and entertain myself and I have plenty as I have been blessed . This to shall pass , but we have to get to a point or threshold when the science is proven that it is "SAFE" In the meantime I don't care what I miss ,least of all taking any stupid chances . There is the difference for myself now that I am a little older and wiser , where in the past I would have been damn the torpedo's I am going out and doing whatever and having fun - yeah right -not - as I have learned the true cost of nonsense .

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: stickyfingers101 ()
Date: April 15, 2021 17:07

the problem(s) as I see it, is optics:

the chances of severe side-effects w/ J&J are very low......BUT.....

a) J&J came out "late" compared to Pfizer, Moderna....that doesn't help its cause....fewer people trust the last kid in class to get the answer.

b) Fauci and Biden and Trump and everybody else in power (in the US, at least) took Pfizer or Moderna (rather than wait for J&J which they knew was in-production)...that doesn't help J&J either...

b) J&J said it was "66% effective"....after the others were over 90%....that doesn't help either....they later said "100% against severe illness" but the 66% number was already out there....

c) Everybody said "take whatever you can get" and said the vaccines are "safe and effective"....there was zero mention of "severe" side-effects or "death"....now there are side-effects (inc. possible death)....also not good.

The odds are microscopic in terms of severe side-effects associated w/ J&J (one in a million)....HOWEVER, after all of the above, having ANY deaths or severe side-effects is problematic for the optics....

most people will take a 1 in 1 million chance IF YOU TELL THEM AHEAD OF TIME...

but, nobody likes a Monday Morning Quarterback saying "oh, wait...on second thought, it might cause death in a small # of people...sorry about that".....

they especially don't like a "Trust the Science" Monday Morning QB coming around telling them that the science has "changed".....

it's just the way people are.....

health experts have a problem....they either:

a) knew of the side-effects and lied/covered-up...which is really bad

b) didn't know of the side-effects, yet still pushed the "it's safe....trust the science" angle....which is also bad.

and if the gov't (or businesses) are contemplating Vaccine Passports, that is essentially forcing people to take a vaccine that might kill them, no matter how small the chances....

that's not good for optics either.

.....and, hence, now we'll have more Vaccine Resistance as a result and the anti-Vaxxers will have another argument to throw around...

oh well.

1 in 1 million are fine odds....but, I want the same vaccine that the President got, thank you very much.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: NashvilleBlues ()
Date: April 15, 2021 17:57

If everyone in the US above 16 can be fully vaccinated by mid-June, why would having a US tour this fall be significantly more dangerous than having it in 2022?

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Beast ()
Date: April 15, 2021 18:09

Call me a cynic, but I foresee the likes of the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines being dumped wholesale on developing countries.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: April 15, 2021 18:17

Quote
Beast
Call me a cynic, but I foresee the likes of the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines being dumped wholesale on developing countries.

Still better than Sinovac and Sputnik

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Beast ()
Date: April 15, 2021 18:26

No doubt!

I've had two doses of AZ. So far so good...

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: SomeTorontoGirl ()
Date: April 15, 2021 18:30

Quote
Beast
Call me a cynic, but I foresee the likes of the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines being dumped wholesale on developing countries.

Shovel some my way, I’ll happily take another AZ jab. Sadly, math skills are eroding, as evidenced by this hysteria. A one-in-a-million risk in the USA, for instance, would mean that they could vaccinate every man, woman and child in the country and expect to suffer 328 deaths. There have currently been 564,000+ deaths, and many seem to think that is the price of freedom. FFS.


Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 15, 2021 18:37

A total of four - 4 - people in Norway age 40-55 died from the extreme blood cloth situation connected to the AstraZeneca vaccine, as documented scientifically. This is out of 120,000 people vaccinated with that vaccine. May be there are genetically reasons for more cases of these side in Nordic countries, vs UK and other places, or may be it is harder to detect and document these very rare cases in other larger areas.

AstraZeneca is a vector vaccine, like J&J. Today the Norwegian Health Authorities recommended use of mRNA vaccine only in Norway, the likes of Pfeizer and Moderna, as mRNA vaccines do have advantages vs vector vaccines. The government i.e. the politicians in Norway decided to set AstraZeneca on hold still, until it is further evaluated by an expert committee by May 10.

There is a large difference in covid-19 cases from country to country. It may be more acceptable to use the AstraZeneca in a country where many people die from covid-19 every day, while places with a low number of cases may not have that same pressure. It is all about calculations of advantage vs side effects.

By calculating number of deaths from covid-19 vs number of deaths from the AstraZeneca blod cloth side effect, the Norway Health Authority said a delay up to 70 weeks without vaccine would be less fatal than vaccinating Norwegian females age 18-65 now, given the current covid-19 cases in Norway. For men the same number is just four weeks, as the side effect is dominant among females age 30-55. It is all about the numbers, risk of death from the virus or the vaccine.

Bjornulf



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-04-15 19:03 by bv.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: April 15, 2021 18:57

Quote
stickyfingers101

a) knew of the side-effects and lied/covered-up...which is really bad

b) didn't know of the side-effects, yet still pushed the "it's safe....trust the science" angle....which is also bad.

and if the gov't (or businesses) are contemplating Vaccine Passports, that is essentially forcing people to take a vaccine that might kill them, no matter how small the chances....

that's not good for optics either.

.....and, hence, now we'll have more Vaccine Resistance as a result and the anti-Vaxxers will have another argument to throw around...


c) In the study groups zero people had the clotting side effect(s)
Which is the correct answer, and when people (women) did, the CDC put a pause on the distribution (which happens frequently as part of their process).

Unless trying to bolster the anti-vax argument, this should theoretically instill confidence in the process, as that's how it's designed to work.

No one is talking about "forcing" anyone to take the vaccine. Don't want to show proof to go to the concert or board an airplane etc? Don't go. If it were to happen, it would very likely be "proof of vax or a negative test done within x hours before.." So, for those unwilling, they could still go, but have to submit to a test. Seems reasonable.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: April 15, 2021 19:01

Quote
SomeTorontoGirl
Quote
Beast
Call me a cynic, but I foresee the likes of the AstraZeneca and J&J vaccines being dumped wholesale on developing countries.

Shovel some my way, I’ll happily take another AZ jab. Sadly, math skills are eroding, as evidenced by this hysteria. A one-in-a-million risk in the USA, for instance, would mean that they could vaccinate every man, woman and child in the country and expect to suffer 328 deaths. There have currently been 564,000+ deaths, and many seem to think that is the price of freedom. FFS.

Was going to suggest Canada, but didn't want to offend my Canadian friends.

Lived there for years, and if I were currently still there I would jump at the opportunity for either at this point.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: April 15, 2021 19:43

Quote
stickyfingers101
the problem(s) as I see it, is optics:

the chances of severe side-effects w/ J&J are very low......BUT.....

a) J&J came out "late" compared to Pfizer, Moderna....that doesn't help its cause....fewer people trust the last kid in class to get the answer.

b) Fauci and Biden and Trump and everybody else in power (in the US, at least) took Pfizer or Moderna (rather than wait for J&J which they knew was in-production)...that doesn't help J&J either...

b) J&J said it was "66% effective"....after the others were over 90%....that doesn't help either....they later said "100% against severe illness" but the 66% number was already out there....

c) Everybody said "take whatever you can get" and said the vaccines are "safe and effective"....there was zero mention of "severe" side-effects or "death"....now there are side-effects (inc. possible death)....also not good.

The odds are microscopic in terms of severe side-effects associated w/ J&J (one in a million)....HOWEVER, after all of the above, having ANY deaths or severe side-effects is problematic for the optics....

most people will take a 1 in 1 million chance IF YOU TELL THEM AHEAD OF TIME...

but, nobody likes a Monday Morning Quarterback saying "oh, wait...on second thought, it might cause death in a small # of people...sorry about that".....

they especially don't like a "Trust the Science" Monday Morning QB coming around telling them that the science has "changed".....

it's just the way people are.....

health experts have a problem....they either:

a) knew of the side-effects and lied/covered-up...which is really bad

b) didn't know of the side-effects, yet still pushed the "it's safe....trust the science" angle....which is also bad.

and if the gov't (or businesses) are contemplating Vaccine Passports, that is essentially forcing people to take a vaccine that might kill them, no matter how small the chances....

that's not good for optics either.

.....and, hence, now we'll have more Vaccine Resistance as a result and the anti-Vaxxers will have another argument to throw around...

oh well.

1 in 1 million are fine odds....but, I want the same vaccine that the President got, thank you very much.
I hear you and wanted to comment on the issue of people being forced to take a vaccine in case they want to travel or attend a live event . At the end of the day they still will have a choice and if they choose not to vaccinate then they can't do such and such thing . The people still have choices . Such a simple choice to protect ones life and quality of life . I would bet all of the broadcasters and commentators and hosts on a certain network have all been vaccinated ( they just can't tell there viewers )

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 15, 2021 20:57

There will be new covid-19 variants as long as there are countries where people are not fully vaccinated. That is why it is impossible to open up and run as normal, with large crowds, for still a long while. We are all in the same boat, unless borders are closed, like in New Zealand, Australia etc. And the Olympics in Japan? They are currently in a growing 4th wave now. The new variants show no mercy.

Pfizer CEO says third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 12 months (CNBC APR 15 2021)

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said Thursday people will "likely" need a booster dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated.

He also said it's possible people will need to get vaccinated against the virus annually.

"It is extremely important to suppress the pool of people that can be susceptible to the virus," he told CNBC's Bertha Coombs during an event with CVS Health. He added the vaccines will be an important tool in the fight against highly contagious variants.

Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: stickyfingers101 ()
Date: April 15, 2021 20:57

Quote
MisterDDDD
Quote
stickyfingers101

a) knew of the side-effects and lied/covered-up...which is really bad

b) didn't know of the side-effects, yet still pushed the "it's safe....trust the science" angle....which is also bad.

and if the gov't (or businesses) are contemplating Vaccine Passports, that is essentially forcing people to take a vaccine that might kill them, no matter how small the chances....

that's not good for optics either.

.....and, hence, now we'll have more Vaccine Resistance as a result and the anti-Vaxxers will have another argument to throw around...


c) In the study groups zero people had the clotting side effect(s)
Which is the correct answer, and when people (women) did, the CDC put a pause on the distribution (which happens frequently as part of their process).

Unless trying to bolster the anti-vax argument, this should theoretically instill confidence in the process, as that's how it's designed to work.

No one is talking about "forcing" anyone to take the vaccine. Don't want to show proof to go to the concert or board an airplane etc? Don't go. If it were to happen, it would very likely be "proof of vax or a negative test done within x hours before.." So, for those unwilling, they could still go, but have to submit to a test. Seems reasonable.


I see your point.

However, my point was/is Fauci and Brix and Everybody said "trust the science...the vax is 100% safe"....now they have to change that...

which looks bad...

telling people "trust me" and turning out to be wrong NEVER looks good, no matter how small your error or how it came about...

...it's simply bad optics...nothing more, nothing less.

as for Vax Passports....if it were only as simple as "concerts and airplanes" then "yes" your plan seems very reasonable (to me)...I don't agree with it, but I feel it is reasonable.

However, concerts and airplanes are, IMO, not even close to the place to start the discussion...

What's the plan for Public Transport, upon which millions and millions rely?

What about supermarkets and food-stores?

Gov't Mandated "No Vax, No Entry" in these places would be essentially forcing millions to get the vaccine....or essentially forcing them to pay for rapid-tests every day.

("essentially" was the operative word I used - ie. "indirectly" forcing by implementing widespread and possibly insurmountable restrictions, like cutting off access to public transport)

my point on this was that there are a LOT of situations that turns this issue into a legal minefield, irrespective of one's opinion on the issue...

pay your taxes....but, you can't ride taxpayer-funded, public-transport unless you get a vaccine that might kill you?

Hmmm....I dunno....Better Call Saul!!

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: April 15, 2021 21:16

Quote
bv
There will be new covid-19 variants as long as there are countries where people are not fully vaccinated. That is why it is impossible to open up and run as normal, with large crowds, for still a long while. We are all in the same boat, unless borders are closed, like in New Zealand, Australia etc. And the Olympics in Japan? They are currently in a growing 4th wave now. The new variants show no mercy.

Pfizer CEO says third Covid vaccine dose likely needed within 12 months (CNBC APR 15 2021)

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla said Thursday people will "likely" need a booster dose of a Covid-19 vaccine within 12 months of getting fully vaccinated.

He also said it's possible people will need to get vaccinated against the virus annually.

"It is extremely important to suppress the pool of people that can be susceptible to the virus," he told CNBC's Bertha Coombs during an event with CVS Health. He added the vaccines will be an important tool in the fight against highly contagious variants.

That's the hard truth of it all, and hopefully people won't get too far ahead of themselves thinking everything is safe again, or that they can already see a light at the end of the long tunnel.
Nice to be hopeful and optimistic, yet at the same time it's wise to be cautious and realistic, otherwise you might be setting yourself up for disappointment.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: crholmstrom ()
Date: April 15, 2021 21:26

Vaccines are available for everyone over age 16 in Washington state now. Of course, trying to get an appointment is mayhem. Glad I was able to get started a month ago. Getting second shot on Saturday.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 15, 2021 22:31

In Norway, the new covid-19 wave we have now is mainly driven by the variants, by younger people, one third of the cases are under 18 years old, they take the virus to their homes, to their parents, brothers, sisters and so on. The average age of people in hospital due to covid-19 is now under 60, many in their 30's and 40's, some even in the 20's.

Most people age 70+ in Norway are now vaccinated, and within a month, most people over 55 have got their first dose. The problem is that even children now do carry the virus, due to the variants. Even a small percentage of the large group of people age 20-60 will make a terrible load to the hospitals.

Sure we have low numbers, and sure it looks like the wave is going down, but my area around Oslo have been closed down since November, things does not come easy, and I think we have to pay attention to the virus for a long while still, distance, washing hands, all of that, even if 70% or so above 18 may get vaccinated eventually.

Large shows at this stage seems so far away. If I could spend time with my grandchildren during the summer, I would be happy, I have hardly met them since March 12, 2020.

Bjornulf

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: daspyknows ()
Date: April 16, 2021 01:08

Quote
stickyfingers101
Quote
MisterDDDD
Quote
stickyfingers101

a) knew of the side-effects and lied/covered-up...which is really bad

b) didn't know of the side-effects, yet still pushed the "it's safe....trust the science" angle....which is also bad.

and if the gov't (or businesses) are contemplating Vaccine Passports, that is essentially forcing people to take a vaccine that might kill them, no matter how small the chances....

that's not good for optics either.

.....and, hence, now we'll have more Vaccine Resistance as a result and the anti-Vaxxers will have another argument to throw around...


c) In the study groups zero people had the clotting side effect(s)
Which is the correct answer, and when people (women) did, the CDC put a pause on the distribution (which happens frequently as part of their process).

Unless trying to bolster the anti-vax argument, this should theoretically instill confidence in the process, as that's how it's designed to work.

No one is talking about "forcing" anyone to take the vaccine. Don't want to show proof to go to the concert or board an airplane etc? Don't go. If it were to happen, it would very likely be "proof of vax or a negative test done within x hours before.." So, for those unwilling, they could still go, but have to submit to a test. Seems reasonable.


I see your point.

However, my point was/is Fauci and Brix and Everybody said "trust the science...the vax is 100% safe"....now they have to change that...

which looks bad...

telling people "trust me" and turning out to be wrong NEVER looks good, no matter how small your error or how it came about...

...it's simply bad optics...nothing more, nothing less.

as for Vax Passports....if it were only as simple as "concerts and airplanes" then "yes" your plan seems very reasonable (to me)...I don't agree with it, but I feel it is reasonable.

However, concerts and airplanes are, IMO, not even close to the place to start the discussion...

What's the plan for Public Transport, upon which millions and millions rely?

What about supermarkets and food-stores?

Gov't Mandated "No Vax, No Entry" in these places would be essentially forcing millions to get the vaccine....or essentially forcing them to pay for rapid-tests every day.

("essentially" was the operative word I used - ie. "indirectly" forcing by implementing widespread and possibly insurmountable restrictions, like cutting off access to public transport)

my point on this was that there are a LOT of situations that turns this issue into a legal minefield, irrespective of one's opinion on the issue...

pay your taxes....but, you can't ride taxpayer-funded, public-transport unless you get a vaccine that might kill you?

Hmmm....I dunno....Better Call Saul!!

Sorry, do not recall Fauci giving a 100% absolute abouth anything. A 1 in 1 million means it is proven to be 99.9999% safe.

What is wrong my mandating people get vaccination to be allowed to do certain things. Children are required to get measles vaccines to attend school, people are mandated to not have a blood alcohol level above .08% to drive and there are many other examples for public safety. These are generally the same people refusing to wear masks as it violates their rights. How come the same people who are against being forced to get vaccinated have no problem forcing a woman to continue an unwanted pregnancy even in the cases of rape and incest? Riddle me that one?

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: April 16, 2021 01:43

Quote
crholmstrom
Vaccines are available for everyone over age 16 in Washington state now. Of course, trying to get an appointment is mayhem. Glad I was able to get started a month ago. Getting second shot on Saturday.

Same here in California, and same here about getting started - one down, one to go. thumbs up. I don't think it's been that hard here for people who want the vaccine to get it - at least up until today anyways.
There was a possibility I was going to have to miss my second shot appointment for next Saturday at CVS, so I jumped on line and was easily able to get a backup appointment for the following Tuesday at the same CVS.
Turns out I can keep original appointment, so canceled plan B thus opening it up for whoever may need it. I heard on the news radio today that CA is leading the way in the US as far as actual number of vaccines being administered so far, even more than many countries, but not sure of the actual percentage of population that has received it. Big state, large population, and the vaccination process is kicking in to another gear with over 16 year olds now being eligible.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: April 16, 2021 01:44

Quote
stickyfingers101

However, my point was/is Fauci and Brix and Everybody said "trust the science...the vax is 100% safe"....now they have to change that...

which looks bad...

telling people "trust me" and turning out to be wrong NEVER looks good, no matter how small your error or how it came about...

...it's simply bad optics...nothing more, nothing less.

as for Vax Passports....if it were only as simple as "concerts and airplanes" then "yes" your plan seems very reasonable (to me)...I don't agree with it, but I feel it is reasonable.

However, concerts and airplanes are, IMO, not even close to the place to start the discussion...

What's the plan for Public Transport, upon which millions and millions rely?

What about supermarkets and food-stores?

It would look bad if Fauci et al ever stated 100% safe.
Going to need a link to that as I don't believe one exists.

The discussion for government buildings etc will be a short one, as I don't believe that's anyones intent. Biden administration has stated numerous times thats not in the cards.
Would be a non-starter for a variety of reasons, except perhaps requiring proof in public schools which is a State issue.

Not likely for grocery stores etc either, too difficult/expensive to enforce. They'll probably just keep a mask requirement until no longer necessary.

White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Monday there will be no federal mandate requiring every American to obtain a vaccination credential and there will be no centralized universal federal vaccinations database.
[www.cnn.com]

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: Aquamarine ()
Date: April 16, 2021 08:58

Quote
Hairball
Quote
crholmstrom
Vaccines are available for everyone over age 16 in Washington state now. Of course, trying to get an appointment is mayhem. Glad I was able to get started a month ago. Getting second shot on Saturday.

Same here in California, and same here about getting started - one down, one to go. thumbs up. I don't think it's been that hard here for people who want the vaccine to get it - at least up until today anyways.
There was a possibility I was going to have to miss my second shot appointment for next Saturday at CVS, so I jumped on line and was easily able to get a backup appointment for the following Tuesday at the same CVS.
Turns out I can keep original appointment, so canceled plan B thus opening it up for whoever may need it. I heard on the news radio today that CA is leading the way in the US as far as actual number of vaccines being administered so far, even more than many countries, but not sure of the actual percentage of population that has received it. Big state, large population, and the vaccination process is kicking in to another gear with over 16 year olds now being eligible.

here in Louisiana only 50% of people are saying they plan to get the vaccine, and there is more supply than demand. A lot of the population have been listening to the wrong people, frankly, and I sometimes despair of our ever getting rid of this.

Re: Coronavirus COVID-19 status around the world
Posted by: bv ()
Date: April 16, 2021 11:31

With only 50% of people accepting vaccine in a state or a country, I don't think it will be possible to open anything, like stadium tours, large crowds, or normal social life as we know it from the past.

Bjornulf

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